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Topic ClosedRock, paper, and scissor strategy

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Hora View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Rock, paper, and scissor strategy
    Posted: 02 Mar 2011 at 22:40
hmm...    I think it's just you...   Wink

(me being a bit ironic today LOL)
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Brids17 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2011 at 16:18
Originally posted by Lionz Heartz Lionz Heartz wrote:

As a player that has played this game I have a pretty good idea what areas are very lacking.


I had to laugh when I read this. Not only is it painfully obvious that you have played this game, it's also funny that you're trying to say that just because you've played it, you magically know exactly what the problem with each area of the game is.

Originally posted by Lionz Heartz Lionz Heartz wrote:

The strategy portion is for sure. I do understand some players getting upset picking the wrong strategy and losing out on the bonus. But in my humble opinion, there should be a huge cost for picking the wrong strategy.


Luck =/= Strategy. Rock paper scissors is all about luck (expect when I played against that one jerk in junior high to see which ping pong table we advanced to in gym, he was gonna lose but quickly switched to something else...I hate that guy). There's really no strategy to making it so that if you happen to pick the opposing "strategy" of your opponent you gain a huge advantage and if you happen to pick the wrong one, you're at a huge disadvantage.

I think it would be much more effective to simply build a bigger army, then not freak out on the forums and GC calling out the leader of one of the largest alliances encouraging them to attack you, then lie and say you'll be peaceful only to attack them anyway knowing you have no chance against them. But hey, maybe that's just me.


Edited by Brids17 - 02 Mar 2011 at 16:20
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Lionz Heartz View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2011 at 12:32
My suggestion was just a first step to expand on the current strategy options a player has now... which is very few. Either a player or players stack armies on one square or the player or players send them to mulitple targets. Not much strategy in that in my opinion, there needs to be more choices involved for a player other than the current options.

The rock, paper , scissor model was a mere way for players to gamble on a battle outcome and its simplicity was simple enough for it to work.

The strategy these days is to have more troops compared to the other player. And to be able to replenish more troops faster. Alliances that can do both of these will win a war and a battle everytime.

As a player that has played this game I have a pretty good idea what areas are very lacking. The strategy portion is for sure. I do understand some players getting upset picking the wrong strategy and losing out on the bonus. But in my humble opinion, there should be a huge cost for picking the wrong strategy.

Basically, if a whole alliance or alliances pick on one alliance or a few players, the battle outcome is already finalized. The players facing the big challenge are forced to not try and quit the game because there is no way they can defeat the odds faced onto them.

rock, paper, and scissors was just one way to at least make a battle more interesting and more of a gamble.
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GM Stormcrow View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2011 at 11:04
Hi Lionz,

Thanks for your input and idea on this one.

In terms of the game design philosophy around Illyriad the number one guiding principle we have written in large font, all caps, bold at the top of our piece of paper is "Never, ever like Rock, Paper, Scissors".  I'm quite serious about that - this piece of paper *literally* exists in RL.

One of the first things we decided upon is that we wanted to encourage tactical and strategic thinking.  The note goes on to read:

ie "I *choose* to fight on this terrain because it suits the type of soldiers in my army, and my opponent can *choose* not to engage me here; and instead try to draw me out to some situation in which he has an advantage" as opposed to "I sent my army out with Option A, but my opponent chose Option B, and so I lose" - which we firmly believe would be an incredibly unsatisfying experience for everyone concerned.

I understand that you're suggesting this as an adjunct to the current strategic options.  The current strategic options will be expanding over time as part of the natural progression of releases, but, to cut a long reply short... "Rock, Paper, Scissors in combat over my cold, dead corpse" Smile

SC
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Lionz Heartz View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2011 at 01:12
-More strategy options in attack and defense
There are research options in place to have armies defend as a square or against a charge... I feel this game should make players on attack and defense to choose one strategy to use for an attack or defend. It will be much like the rock, paper, scissors game. You pick the wrong strategy to defend or attack, there will be a big penalty or big bonus for the other player.

The more I think about it, I love the paper, rock, and scissor strategy idea along with others, but I really like that one. Right now in game, a player just sends a type of unit or mixed and sends them to a square. The strategy is based on troop type and terrain. Strategy researched also plays a part also in how an outcome comes about. Even a well leveled commander can make a good difference. To make things more interesting, perhaps more strategy options should be used and a player can only choose one of them for defense and attack.

Example:
These options are pretty raw and I am sure I will replace these with better names, but now this is what I will use...

Attack options
-Safe attack
-Moderate attack
-Aggressive attack

Defense options
-Safe defense
-Moderate defense
-Aggressive defense

Safe attack > Aggressive defense
Safe defense > Aggressive attack
Moderate attack > Safe defense
Moderate defense > Safe attack
Aggressive attack > Moderate defense
Aggressive defense > Moderate attack
Safe attack = Safe defense
Moderate attack = Moderate defense
Aggressive attack = Aggressive defense

If a player picks the right strategy over the other player, it will increase the strategy winning player's troop count by 100% If the players cancel each other (=) out, troop count will be the same for both players. And kills will be based on the old strategy of troops used, wall lvl, commander lvl etc...

Keep in mind that the commander bonus, terrain bonus, and wall bonus will all still play a factor in the outcome. The only difference will be that the winner of picking the right strategy will increase their troops power to double the amount of troops it currently has. 10 to 20 troops, 50 to 100 troops, 10,000 to 20,000 troops. The defense strategy will be applied to all of the armies defending against each army attack. The strategy can be changed for each new attack against the defending army or defending armies.

Example:

HonoredMule sends 10,000 trueshots to MODStrategos town. HM chooses the Aggressive attack option. MODStrategos chooses the Safe defense option. So, Strat would get the 100% bonus that would double the power of his defending armies to a size of 10000 troops against that one army sent. This would be based also on how many troops sent and troops defending. Basically, just throw in the 100% bonus in the troops counts and that will give even the smallest army a better chance to defeat armies larger than it. Say Strat had 5000 Mammoths defending, he picked the right strategy so his troops will act like they are 10000 mammoths. Since he has the wall bonus also, Strat would win the battle.

I have a question... Should the player that wins the best strategy get a 100% increase in kills or a 100% increase in troops. That winning strategy player will still have the same number of troops, but for that one battle it will act as if it has double the amount of troops. Such as the 100% of troops would double its power to a size of a 10000 army against a player attacking them.

For each army sent, the attacking player and the defending player will get to pick a new strategy for each army sent and each army the defending army has to defend against.

Perhaps NPC's and factions will have a random formula picking one of the strategies against attacks or when attacking.

For players occupying a square by reins or with a siege, they can pick an order of strategy against attacks one through five.

1) Moderate defense
2) Safe defense
3) Moderate defense
4) Aggressive defense
5) Safe defense

These players can choose random order or repeat order going 1-5 and back to 1-5. The random order will pick any of the five in no order until the armies there are no longer at the square.

The player attacking the square will simply just have to choose the attack option they want. They can only pick one, so they can pick moderate attack with their armies or with the sally forth.

Edited by Lionz Heartz - 02 Mar 2011 at 02:11
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