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Topic ClosedRhyagelle Responds To Absaroke Aggression
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Salararius View Drop Down
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Points: 519 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 05:42
I'm not responding for Absa, just asking people to consider the following thoughts.

Originally posted by RHY Press Office RHY Press Office wrote:

OCTOBER 10, 2012 -- Felagund -- Today, the Rhyagelle Alliance (RHY) took decisive military action to respond to a series of unprovoked aggressive attacks by Absaroke (ABSA) in late September. RHY's decision was carefully considered only after reasonable terms (30, then 70 million gold for RHY losses incurred in an avoidable battle) offered by our diplomatic contingent were patently ignored. ...
 
...
 
In short, this situation is not about a mining issue with SkB, we have had no military exchanges with SkB in the wake of the events that precipitated our response thus far, we are not planning on pursuing military action against SkB over the mining claim in the future, and we are not responding militarily to SkB at this time.

"at the behest of SkB players. SkB members had requisitioned ABSA confederated to eliminate our player's forces"  This RHY quote clearly acknowledges that SkB requested Absa military aid and contextually it's clear that this is a mining issue.  From my limited knowledge this wasn't the only "mining issue" between RHY and SkB (or RHY and Absa).  If RHY would kindly post every "mining" issue RHY had with SkB then this simple "mining issue" could be viewed in context.  Another point of context would be the location of this simple mining issue.  How can we discuss a war without discussing the pattern of incidents that started the war?  Who here thinks wars start sans a pattern?

How can Absa actions have nothing to do with a mining issue if SkB requested assistance with a mining issue and Absa's response was isolated to the location of the mining issue?  If this is not about a mining issue, then it's about the loss of troops.  How can it be about a loss of troops when RHY acknowledges "our player re-took his position on the rare resource mine that Messer attacked" that RHY chose to send troops to the square specifically to engage in battle?  The most simple reason for RHY to do that is because of a mining issue.  I think we're back to the fact that this isn't about a mining issue because RHY seems to be looking for it to be about something else.  That pretty much makes it not about a mining issue so what is the bigger pattern?  I think this is about RHY's "right" to put troops wherever they like.  How does everyone feel about that "right"?

Originally posted by RHY Press Office RHY Press Office wrote:

The RHY/ABSA conflict began with a dispute ... In this case, an RHY player successfully secured two rare mineral mines that Jefke (SkB) took exception to. After deliberations, our player agreed to a compromise and agreed to concede one of the two mines to Jefke in order to bring the matter to an agreeable solution. Jefke appeared to be satisfied with the compromise, and our player made it very clear that his occupation at the remaining mine would be temporary.
No mention is made if Jefke agreed to the compromise or if the RHY player just agreed with himself?  How did Jefke "appear" to be satisfied? Where is that IGM?  This paragraph appears to describe a declaration.  If the declarer is much bigger and the second party subsequently asks for help dealing with the declarer then that's not an agreement and Jefke isn't satisfied.  Can RHY really feel otherwise at this juncture?  But seriously, if we knew the location in question we could all decide for ourselves if we would be "satisfied".

Originally posted by RHY Press Office RHY Press Office wrote:

To this point, no fighting had commenced between RHY and SkB members.
No fighting had commenced to this point because SkB wasn't strong enough to fight RHY.  If they had, then you could simply swap SkB for Absa in the original RHY post.  That's hardly a point...
 
Originally posted by RHY Press Office RHY Press Office wrote:

It was at the end of this issue with SkB that Messer (Absa) attacked our player's position with troops ostensibly at the behest of SkB players. SkB members had requisitioned ABSA confederated to eliminate our player's forces deliberately. It is clear to RHY that SkB leadership was complicit in the knowledge of this attack, which was tacitly acknowledged by Messer himself in this IGM:  
SkB does not "appear" satisfied at this point.  Maybe RHY erred and SkB was never happy?  So, does that give Absa any reason for involvement?

Originally posted by RHY Press Office RHY Press Office wrote:

In the course of this exchange, our player re-took his position on the rare resource mine that Messer attacked. Days later, our players' forces were wiped out again -- this time by a different ABSA player, Hugie. In this attack, thousands of RHY troops were lost.
Post all the battle reports so people can see how many troops each side lost and put that in relation to the reasonable diplomatic demands made.  Again, post the location of the dispute and post all the reasonable concessions RHY made to SkB leading up to this situation.  Vague allusions to concessions and diplomacy are no substitute for facts if you want to post here.
 
Originally posted by RHY Press Office RHY Press Office wrote:

Once again, Indeva sought to reach a diplomatic conclusion to the escalating situation:
Demanding 30 million (then 70 million) gold is not seeking a diplomatic conclusion.
 
Originally posted by RHY Press Office RHY Press Office wrote:

RHY feels that there is casus belli for its response to ABSA. Two separate ABSA members attacked and destroyed thousands of RHY troops for no apparent reason
Originally posted by RHY Press Office RHY Press Office wrote:

It is clear to RHY that SkB leadership was complicit in the knowledge of this attack,
Originally posted by RHY Press Office RHY Press Office wrote:

at the behest of SkB players. SkB members had requisitioned ABSA confederated to eliminate our player's forces
 Are these not reasons?  How can something RHY posts not be "apparent" to RHY?  How can it be in bold that there is no apparent reason for the attacks when the apparent reasons are in the post?

Originally posted by RHY Press Office RHY Press Office wrote:

We strongly encourage Consone to denounce ABSA's behavior and expel it from their coalition. 
Most certainly Consone should carefully consider actions by any member with regard to war.  For at least one Consone members, the point of Consone is to protect against the aggression of the strong, with the numbers of the less strong...
 
Originally posted by RHY Press Office RHY Press Office wrote:

Copies of combat reports and IGMs Diplomatic enquiries may be made directly to Jejune or Indeva State.
I'm guessing the press office just plain gave up at this point as the sentence makes no sense?

*inquiries


***mod edit to remove links to private messages***



Edited by GM Luna - 12 Oct 2012 at 04:07
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Salararius View Drop Down
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Points: 519 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 05:31
Originally posted by Sir Bradly Sir Bradly wrote:

After reviewing the entire forum post and 5 addendums provided, one thing is abundantly clear.   Absa's response was dripping with arrogance rather than diplomacy.  Addendum 4 and 5 are reasons enough to declare war in my opinion.  

I respect Rhyagelle and its members for standing up to Absa and engaging in military action.  Lets see if Absa can fight their own battles, or do they need to run to Consone...

Good Luck!
Run to Consone?  Absa is part of Consone.  How do you "run to" something you are part of?  Do you "run to NC" or is that the reason we are all part of alliances and confederations?  If I pick a fight with "Oxford", will it run to "Saxon" (both Sir Bradly's cities) or will it "fight it's own battles"?  Rhyaglle chose a conflict with SkB which is in confederation with Absa which is part of Consone.  That is clear and above board.  Nothing hidden there, no "running" involved.  Rhyaglle has escalated a "resource war" into a "city war".  Fights over mines are a re-occurring part of the game.  Absa actions were at the behest of a smaller confederated alliance that Rhyaglle holds blameless.  If the smaller alliance is blameless for requesting military assistance then why am I (as a member of Absa) to blame?  It was not a random attack by all of Absa but Rhyaglle's response has been random and directed at any member of Absa within reach.  Absa struck to remove Rhyaglle forces from one location.  That is a clear, concise and limited goal.  What is Rhyaglle's goal if not the elimination of every Absa member in reach?  Rhyaglle should expect Consone to fight.  As far as Rhyaglle has acknowledged, they didn't even deign to contact Consone.  If Rhyaglle does not expect Consone to fight, then so too should others.  If no one expects Consone to fight, then Consone is a joke and we should be laughing and not talking about it.

Can you say the same for Rhyaglle?  Have any new members joined specifically to be part of this fight?  Is Rhyaglle "hiding" behind these new members?  Is anyone "lurking" behind Rhyaglle?  Which side is above board here and where are people running, and lurking, and skulking?

I would say that Rhyaglle is "running" to the forums.  That would be a proper characterization.  They are trying to make it sound most unfair if Consone fights as Consone has publicly pledged to fight.  Why would Rhyaglle choose (they are attacking numerous Absa cities, not simply the two members that supported SkB) a fight with a member of Consone if Rhyaglle doesn't want to fight Consone?  Can I pick a fight with just Oxford and then say Oxford is running to your other cities when they strike back?  Seriously, I think that's just silly and I think people should laugh at me if I were to seriously post it here.  I think these characterizations are silly too.  The only extent which these characterizations are not silly is if they influence Consone not to respond.  In that case, well, they worked and Consone is silly and I think everyone will laugh at Consone.
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Points: 1269 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 05:26
Originally posted by Sir Bradly Sir Bradly wrote:

After reviewing the entire forum post and 5 addendums provided, one thing is abundantly clear.   Absa's response was dripping with arrogance rather than diplomacy.  Addendum 4 and 5 are reasons enough to declare war in my opinion.  

What they did not mention is Addendum 4 and 5 were our only response after 7 armies of one of our player was attacked and after several diplo missions against our cities. 

Also in the whole post the square where the battle happened is not mentioned. 

The square is close (2 squares) to SkB cities with no RHY cities near. RHY has a 24 square policy around their own cities, as you can see in their public forum - http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/Alliance/Forums/453/-2/4272

Absa involvement in this was Messer and Hugie attacked the camp 5 and 7 days after promised withdrawal of RHY troops. Their actions were out of personal friendship with involved SkB members and we fully back their actions.

I was hoping that all this stuff would not come to forums and we didn't have to spend time on the forums, on the top of the tournament and a war. 
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Points: 982 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 04:33
Originally posted by RHY Press Office RHY Press Office wrote:


Finally, RHY is aware of ABSA's membership in the Consone syndicate. We strongly caution against any intervention of confederated alliances on ABSA's behalf, including but not limited to Consone members and SkB. RHY enters into this conflict with the expectation that the combatants will remain limited to our alliance and ABSA. However, RHY is also prepared to respond decisively against any alliance who attempts to bolster ABSA's forces, directly or indirectly.

We strongly encourage Consone to denounce ABSA's behavior and expel it from their coalition. 
 


Ahahahahahhahahahahahaha

Ahahaha

Ahh.

Yeah, I'm sure they put together that whole  huge confederacy to not help each other in the case of outside attack.  Good luck with this.
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Points: 228 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 04:18
After reviewing the entire forum post and 5 addendums provided, one thing is abundantly clear.   Absa's response was dripping with arrogance rather than diplomacy.  Addendum 4 and 5 are reasons enough to declare war in my opinion.  

I respect Rhyagelle and its members for standing up to Absa and engaging in military action.  Lets see if Absa can fight their own battles, or do they need to run to Consone...

Good Luck!
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Points: 417 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 03:57
edit: deleted a poor attempt at humor

Edited by Silverlake - 10 Oct 2012 at 12:55
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Points: 944 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 03:31
Originally posted by Crazybum Crazybum wrote:

Originally posted by ES2 ES2 wrote:

Originally posted by Crazybum Crazybum wrote:

The bottom line is RHY where bullying a smaller alliance by occupying land mere squares away from SkB towns. RHY thought they could get away with this bullying, but they thought wrong. Absaroke had no choice but to stand up to the bully and help her allies. RHY are clearly the aggressors, everyone can see that, RHY propaganda won't fool too many people.

I was wondering when those words would pop up, please (as a note to both parties) fight it out as decent players and don't resort to (I'm the victim here, I'm being bullied/was being bullied!).

Those words are overused in attempts to sway public opinion. 

Your taking my quote completely out of context, and editing it.

Says the person who deleted their entire post.
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Points: 7 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 03:30
Originally posted by ES2 ES2 wrote:

Originally posted by Crazybum Crazybum wrote:

The bottom line is RHY where bullying a smaller alliance by occupying land mere squares away from SkB towns. RHY thought they could get away with this bullying, but they thought wrong. Absaroke had no choice but to stand up to the bully and help her allies. RHY are clearly the aggressors, everyone can see that, RHY propaganda won't fool too many people.

I was wondering when those words would pop up, please (as a note to both parties) fight it out as decent players and don't resort to (I'm the victim here, I'm being bullied/was being bullied!).

Those words are overused in attempts to sway public opinion. 

Your taking my quote completely out of context, and editing it.


Edited by Crazybum - 10 Oct 2012 at 03:30
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Points: 52 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 03:26
i hope so
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Points: 119 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 03:19
Yawn
Is this over yet? 
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