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Sir Bradly 
Forum Warrior
Joined: 12 Sep 2012
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 228
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 Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 17:49 |
 geofrey wrote:
I don't believe anything positive can come from debating each other's opinions, so please save those for IGM.
As I understand it:
Absa attacked RHY rare mineral armies twice.
No one agreed to any terms.
RHY is now declaring war against Absa.
My question is what is war? Siege the capitol. Lay waste to all of Absa's armies? Take out the two players responsible?
What is RHY's end game? Force Absa to agree to some terms? If so, what terms?
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Geofrey, I think it is very unfair to request that an alliance reveal their end goal in a military conflict. Only a complete fool would submit to such a request. Clearly they have a grievance and they have chosen war to solve the problem since prior diplomacy attempts have not worked.
Only RHY knows what their objective is and it should stay that way.
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Aurordan
Postmaster
Player Council - Ambassador
Joined: 21 Sep 2011
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 982
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Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 17:46 |
RHY Press Office wrote:
| Since the introduction of the new resources a couple of months ago, our alliance has been subjected to repeated violations of its territory by RHY armies. In some cases they were taking advantage of small players who could barely form armies of their own much less claim sovereignty on the squares next to their towns. It has been a disheartening struggle to negotiate one settlement only to have more armies appear at different locations at a later date. |
For Buriden to characterize RHY as solely aggressive in the territorial overlap of RHY and SkB territories in terms of rare resource claims in unfair and unfounded. SkB has repeated engaged in aggressive exodusing, settlement, and annexing of resources into RHY territory. I will stipulate that RHY has been pro-active in competing with SkB for rare resources if Buriden in turn can admit the same of his alliance.
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Territorial overlap? It's pretty much surrounded by their cities. That's pretty proactive. Most people would say too proactive.
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SunStorm
Postmaster
Joined: 01 Apr 2011
Location: "Look Up"
Status: Offline
Points: 979
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Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 17:23 |
Salararius wrote:
Most certainly Consone should carefully consider actions by any member with regard to war. For at least one Consone members, the point of Consone is to protect against the aggression of the strong, with the numbers of the less strong... |
Mogul wrote:
Personally I don't think Consone will respond same way and start to siege your players but if you hope that your siege armies won't be attack you are most likely wrong.  |
Salararius, great point here! Very clear and succinct. Consone most certainly will "protect against aggression" - and as Mogul pointed out, we should expect to see those sieges disappearing soon.
LordOfTheSwamp wrote:
(1) . . . sadly some alliances have decided to respond to the new gathering and crafting by being jerks, that's just how it is." (2) is seriously "WTF?!" |
Agreed (~_~)
LordOfTheSwamp wrote:
You'll also forgive me for observing that several big alliances - but most notably RHY - have had limited involvement in the tournament, so my pessimistic side fears that someone has been planning to start a big war for a while, and the Absa/SkB mines dispute is just an excuse, waiting until people are weakened by the tournament.
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On this point I must take issue. The dates on this whole mess happened prior to the Tournament being announced.
RHY Press Office wrote:
The Rhyagelle alliance has already reached out to ABSA twice, after both attacks, seeking restitution for their attacks. We gave them our terms and a deadline of 9/30, which they chose to ignore. |
How could they, or anyone else, have known in advance that there would be a tournament coming? Yes, there is limited involvement, but I think its because many see the prizes being slightly less appealing than last years. We have no stats for the naked blue-painted men and no stats on the equips they mentioned. As it stands, all anyone knows for sure is that the alliance will get a big pot of prestige and some medals. That's about it. So I find these to be completely unrelated (though I have always been more of an optimistic).
Now for some bullet points: - RHY sets a double standard by claiming dominion over a set radius around their own cities and then claims a mine within the same radius of another players city. (poor form really - but then again, that's why there are "rare" resources and the struggle to hold them.)
- SkB is expected to bend over and take it (would you?)
- ABSA steps in to clear the mine for SkB (queue inspirational music)
- RHY is displeased that ABSA did not contact them or offer a diplomatic solution prior to the attack (Which they should have done - since really, RHY was not sieging anyone and it was, therefore, not a matter of needing to act quickly or something drastic would happen - no, it was a flipping mine.....) (~_~)
- RHY takes this to the forum to generate an appeal for Consone not to act (good luck with that)
- RHY sends a bunch of sieges (*sigh* - not the best move)
- Consone wipes out all the sieges (Give it time, it will come to pass)
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"Side? I am on nobody's side because nobody is on my side" ~LoTR
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RHY Press Office
New Poster
Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 19
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Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 17:00 |
geofrey wrote:
I don't believe anything positive can come from debating each other's opinions, so please save those for IGM. . .
What is RHY's end game? Force Absa to agree to some terms? If so, what terms?
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I am in agreement with Geofrey. RHY has stated its position on the matter, and I would say that ABSA has articulated its opposition position well. We are obviously in fundamental disagreement over the matter and at this point, our disagreement appears to be intractable.
As for agreeing to terms, RHY is ready to communicate with ABSA directly on terms, should they reach out to us diplomatically, a process that we sought from the onset of this crisis.
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geofrey
Postmaster General
Joined: 31 May 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1013
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Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 16:41 |
I don't believe anything positive can come from debating each other's opinions, so please save those for IGM.
As I understand it:
Absa attacked RHY rare mineral armies twice.
No one agreed to any terms.
RHY is now declaring war against Absa.
My question is what is war? Siege the capitol. Lay waste to all of Absa's armies? Take out the two players responsible?
What is RHY's end game? Force Absa to agree to some terms? If so, what terms?
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RHY Press Office
New Poster
Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 19
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Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 16:36 |
I'd like to respond to several points in Buriden's post:
| I can confirm that at least one RHY army is heading towards our cities. I was told that this attack was just an unfortunate error, but I'm not inclined to trust anything that RHY say at this time. |
I too can confirm that this is the case. RHY has put together a detailed contingency plan to counter any attempt by SkB to fight on ABSA's behalf, and one of our members erroneously sent an attack to Buridan's coordinates instead of an ABSA target.
In the IGM, our player 1) admits the error, 2) was contrite, 3) reinforced that RHY is not at war with SkB (Buriden can confirm that there are no other inbound attacks to SkB), 4) committed to remunerating Buriden for any damages that will be caused by the errant attack.
This approach to conflict resolution is precisely what we were hoping for from ABSA after their attacks on RHY positions, which were never offered.
| Since the introduction of the new resources a couple of months ago, our alliance has been subjected to repeated violations of its territory by RHY armies. In some cases they were taking advantage of small players who could barely form armies of their own much less claim sovereignty on the squares next to their towns. It has been a disheartening struggle to negotiate one settlement only to have more armies appear at different locations at a later date. |
For Buriden to characterize RHY as solely aggressive in the territorial overlap of RHY and SkB territories in terms of rare resource claims in unfair and unfounded. SkB has repeated engaged in aggressive exodusing, settlement, and annexing of resources into RHY territory. I will stipulate that RHY has been pro-active in competing with SkB for rare resources if Buriden in turn can admit the same of his alliance.
****mod edit to remove links to private messages****
Edited by GM Luna - 12 Oct 2012 at 04:11
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LordOfTheSwamp
Forum Warrior
Joined: 23 May 2011
Location: Swamp of Fyrgis
Status: Offline
Points: 481
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Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 16:16 |
(I find myself agreeing absolutely and entirely with someone in DLords on a matter of politics?! Whoa! Go Smoking GNU!)
At the moment it looks like there are only two issues at stake.
Neither of them are a mine. (It's insignificant.) Neither of them are about whether RHY can paint themselves white. (Weirder things have happened, but it doesn't look like anyone's buying it.)
They seem to be: 1) How do Consone react in a situation like this? (AFAIK it's the first time a Consone member has been attacked.) 2) What sort of game do "the community" want Illy to be.
As joint leader of one of Consone's alliances, and as a long term advocate of peace and consideration and consensual violence in Illy, I have a vested interest in the outcomes in both cases, but probably zero chance to influence either.
I await with some trepidation to see what route my favourite game is going to take.
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"A boy is building sandcastles on a beach. You go and kick down his castle. You could say that it only reflects how you play with sandcastles. Others may think it reflects who you are." - Ander.
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Buridan
New Poster
Joined: 02 Feb 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 34
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Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 16:15 |
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I have little to add in detail to Jorcle's summing up of the situation in this conflict. We in SkB believe that RHY's reaction is completely out of proportion to the events that led us to this point.
Since the introduction of the new resources a couple of months ago, our alliance has been subjected to repeated violations of its territory by RHY armies. In some cases they were taking advantage of small players who could barely form armies of their own much less claim sovereignty on the squares next to their towns. It has been a disheartening struggle to negotiate one settlement only to have more armies appear at different locations at a later date.
This latest incident was triggered when it became obvious that RHY were continuously watching our territory for a chance to move onto a rare resource. As we are a small alliance, at that point we had no choice but to ask our allies in Absa for assistance in resolving the matter.
I can confirm that at least one RHY army is heading towards our cities. I was told that this attack was just an unfortunate error, but I'm not inclined to trust anything that RHY say at this time.
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Salararius
Postmaster
Joined: 26 Sep 2011
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 519
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Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 16:13 |
RHY Press Office wrote:
For ABSA, we understand that they feel their actions are justified by RHY's unfair claim to a mine they believe belongs to SkB. RHY disputes that opinion, but even if it were true, it would not justify ABSA attacking RHY. This originally was an issue that SkB and SkB alone should have dealt with, without military assistance from their confederates in ABSA. Now our issue is with ABSA. |
So, simply because a somewhat smaller confederated alliance (SkB) of ABSA asks ABSA for help in a matter that RHY will entertain may be justified (certainly is based on RHY's prior published rules of mine ownership) no ABSA member is justified offering any military assistance? Even something as innocuous as sending troops to occupy a location 2 distant from the confederated city and lest there by any confusion at least 10 (maybe more) distant from any RHY city? Would the ABSA member be justified if they warned RHY first?
Going with this theory. How do the members of RHY justify intervening in an issue that should be between Messer (Absa), Hugie (Absa) and Demios (RHY, who lost the troops)? How does RHY justify extending invitations to new members to join this unjustified support of Demios? If the world is indeed as RHY outlines, how does RHY justify it's existing member's attacking ABSA cities except based on prior, public, diplomatic agreements? How can it possibly justify new members doing so?
Based on the RHY rules of engagement (see above post from the "RHY Press Office"), this is an issue that Demios and Demios alone should deal with. Did anyone else loose troops?
Is RHY going to pay compensation for attacking vty's cities? How about Russian Blue? Would RHY like Absa to supply a list so they can set things straight? This should be an issue between isolated players, not alliances, right? Does that rule only apply when RHY (or RHY's members) are the stronger party?
RHY seems to have two sets of rules. One for RHY and it's members and one for the rest of Illyriad. That's not unheard of. What seems odd is how clear RHY is making it. Does the Press Office feel the hypocrisy is well hidden?
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vty
Wordsmith
Joined: 24 Jan 2012
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 119
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Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 15:46 |
They violated their own rules by occupying that mine, Messer gave them two days warning that he was on his way, the IGM's show that. No one wanted war, it is a darn silly mine. It was more about the idea that they did as they pleased, and show no qualms about it. It was arrogant, and they used their very small troop loss as an excuse to fight.
Now every ABSA member is being attacked in multiple ways by the entire alliance, my capital is being sieged, and other towns too. Their war response is well coordinated, seems like they had this brewing for a long time.
If you love beer, denounce them! The poor Steamtastic Outlying building is being overrun!
xoxo :)
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