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Topic ClosedRhyagelle Responds To Absaroke Aggression

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HATHALDIR View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 12:40
The Eagles are more than willing to try and help broker a peace over this unfortunate conflict, and help put an end to this futile warmongering, especially when there is a tournament for people to vent thier displeasures! We ask the leaders of all three parties concerned to contact myself over the next 24 hours, to recall all seiges and cease sending armies for the interim. Because of our association with ABSA in the Consone confederation, i am more than willing to have fellow brokers who are neutral in this conflict.
Sincerely HATHALDIR



Edited by HATHALDIR - 10 Oct 2012 at 13:00
There's worse blokes than me!!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 13:32
Originally posted by RHY Press Office RHY Press Office wrote:

Originally posted by Ander Ander wrote:

 
Absa involvement in this was Messer and Hugie attacked the camp 5 and 7 days after promised withdrawal of RHY troops. Their actions were out of personal friendship with involved SkB members and we fully back their actions.

This is precisely the crux of our conflict with ABSA. Again -- we were never headed for war with SkB over that mine. The issue was that we were attacked in a completely unprovoked manner by ABSA...

Errr... so, you're on a mine you have a dodgy claim to; you agree to leave it; you don't; SkB ask their confeds to move you. So their confeds do.

And you call that "attacked in a completely unprovoked manner" - and you react by besieging a bunch of cities belonging to players not involved in the above? (Or are zebazga, Vty, Snap Dragon, Skim Milk and Russian Blue actually all Messer and Hugie in disguise?!)

There have been lots, and lots of cases of people losing troops in mine disputes. It happens. Nobody else uses it as a pretext to siege attractive-looking cities.

You wanted a war. You're starting one. At least be honest about it. When NC attacked Steel they said it was because they disliked Steel's leader - odious, but honest. If you're aiming for territorial consolidation, or just starting a war because you fancy it, then at least say so.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 13:42
"The above admission is a confirmation that Messer and Hugie indeed were asked by SkB members to attack our position on the mine."

... and thats why it was not war over mining spot? What? Why? How? Shocked


"Thanks to the above quote, we now have an admission of a conspiracy, with two alliances, SkB and ABSA..."

There is much faster way to find conspiracy between alliances, you can look at alliance diplomacy forum and check for confederations (http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/Alliance/Diplomacy/170).

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 14:24
[QUOTE=HATHALDIR] i am more than willing to have fellow brokers who are neutral in this conflict.
[/QUOTE]

Rill did an awesome job in the Valar lynching/war/whatever-it-was. In that case it helped that most everyone on both sides wanted the same thing, but still, she was a superb mediator.

Is Rill around...?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 14:30
Originally posted by HATHALDIR HATHALDIR wrote:

The Eagles are more than willing to try and help broker a peace over this unfortunate conflict, and help put an end to this futile warmongering, especially when there is a tournament for people to vent thier displeasures! We ask the leaders of all three parties concerned to contact myself over the next 24 hours, to recall all seiges and cease sending armies for the interim. Because of our association with ABSA in the Consone confederation, i am more than willing to have fellow brokers who are neutral in this conflict.
Sincerely HATHALDIR


The Rhyagelle alliance has already reached out to ABSA twice, after both attacks, seeking restitution for their attacks. We gave them our terms and a deadline of 9/30, which they chose to ignore. Once they made the decision to ignore our terms, RHY decided to use its military to respond. Up until the 30th, we were seeking a diplomatic solution, but we never even received a counter offer for solving the issue of attacking our position twice.

RHY will not, therefore, enter into multi-national negotiations. As HATHALDIR has eluded to above, Consone members cannot be a part of peace talks, since their association with ABSA makes it impossible for them to act as honest brokers in any negotiation. Moreover, the polemic nature of the Consone syndicate renders the majority of diplomatic leaders in Elgea too biased to act as a mediator.

If ABSA wishes to discuss terms of surrender to cease hostilities, they will have to be the ones to reach out to Indeva State or Jejune directly.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 14:33

Absaroke (Absa) response to Rhyagelle (RHY) declaration of war

I am posting this in my capacity as one of the chiefs of Absaroke

Firstly can I congratulate RHY on a professional looking declaration of war that obviously took some time to put together. The document is I presume a good representation of the RHY viewpoint or at least that which they wish the Illyriad community to believe. As always with legalistic looking documents the important points are in the detail and omissions. I should point out that the declaration was a bit late in that RHY commenced hostile activities against Absa on the 1st October.

RHY is seeking to set the agenda for the conflict by stating early on that this is not about the mining of rare resources but a response to two battles which they attribute to Absa aggression. The fact is that this is entirely about resource claims and both battles were completely avoidable by RHY. RHY is fighting a war of their choice, on their terms which happens to give them a clear numerical advantage. Like every other aggressor in similar circumstances they wish to maintain those advantages.  That does not mean that they should.

Conflicts generally have some background before they get to the stage of armies being used. The background in this case is the implementation of rare resource locations and the RHY attitude to claiming those. Just so that we are clear the rare resource points close to RHY cities are not those that have been in contention. The points of contention, of which there have been many, concern RHY occupation of locations close to other player’s cities and in some cases very close. The location that RHY is now using as an excuse is a good example. It is located at -403/-184 which if you care to view you will see is in a cluster of Skeleton Boar (SkB) cities. If you chose to look at the location you will not be surprised that SkB felt that it should belong to them nor will you be surprised that RHY was aware of that. You may have noticed that in their declaration RHY referred to locations as being in their territory despite the fact that these rare mines clearly are not.

There were two  battles that RHY refer to as being ‘a series of unprovoked aggressive attacks by Absaroke’. The first of those happened on 23rd Sept and here is the battle report,

From: System
Subject: FW: Failed attack against Deimos's forces at Square -403|-184 by Messer's forces from Westley
Received: 24 Sep 2012 15:38
Original Message:
Two opposing forces clash against each other.

Swordsmen, and especially cavalry, find attacking into very mountainous terrain difficult - although ranged units can excel.

Narrow passes and gulleys hinder any mounted units' ability to defend adequately. Nimble spear units have no such worries here, and defending bowmen are able to use their height advantage to maximum effect.

Attackers:

Unit:

Quantity:

Casualties:

Survivors:

Commander: Oxymorphone

http://cdn9.illyriad.com/img/icons/military/human_cavalry_24.png Charioteer

1

Damaged for 100, 0 health remains.

Troops:

http://cdn9.illyriad.com/img/icons/military/human_cavalry_24.png Charioteers

3000

3000

0

Troops:

http://cdn7.illyriad.com/img/icons/military/human_spearunit_24.png Militiamen

100

100

0



Despite your troops' defeat, word reaches you concerning the defenders' forces in this battle.

Defenders:

Unit:

Quantity:

Casualties:

Survivors:

Commander: Strong Belwas

http://cdn7.illyriad.com/img/icons/military/orc_infantry_24.png Fist

1

Damaged for 40, 210 health remains.

Troops:

http://cdn7.illyriad.com/img/icons/military/orc_spearunit_24.png Clan Guardsmen

900

365

535

Troops:

http://cdn7.illyriad.com/img/icons/military/orc_infantry_24.png Fists

200

82

118

Troops:

http://cdn6.illyriad.com/img/icons/military/orc_ranged_24.png Death Dealers

700

284

416

Commander: Mystery Orc??

http://cdn7.illyriad.com/img/icons/military/orc_cavalry_24.png Death Pack

1

Damaged for 40, 210 health remains.

Troops:

http://cdn7.illyriad.com/img/icons/military/orc_spearunit_24.png Kobold Cohorts

370

151

219

Troops:

http://cdn7.illyriad.com/img/icons/military/orc_spearunit_24.png Clan Guardsmen

370

151

219

Troops:

http://cdn6.illyriad.com/img/icons/military/orc_ranged_24.png Death Dealers

369

149

220

Commander: Sir Roger Valles

http://cdn9.illyriad.com/img/icons/military/human_cavalry_24.png Charioteer

1

Damaged for 40, 460 health remains.

Troops:

http://cdn7.illyriad.com/img/icons/military/human_spearunit_24.png Militiamen

500

204

296

Troops:

http://cdn7.illyriad.com/img/icons/military/human_spearunit_24.png Pikemen

672

273

399

Troops:

http://cdn7.illyriad.com/img/icons/military/human_ranged_24.png Longbowmen

699

284

415

Troops:

http://cdn6.illyriad.com/img/icons/military/human_infantry_24.png Men-at-Arms

205

84

121

Commander: Sir Dave of Rhyagelle

http://cdn9.illyriad.com/img/icons/military/human_cavalry_24.png Charioteer

1

Damaged for 40, 310 health remains.

Troops:

http://cdn7.illyriad.com/img/icons/military/human_spearunit_24.png Militiamen

494

201

293

Troops:

http://cdn7.illyriad.com/img/icons/military/human_spearunit_24.png Pikemen

503

204

299

Troops:

http://cdn7.illyriad.com/img/icons/military/human_ranged_24.png Longbowmen

740

300

440

 

You will note that RHY held the square. It was Messer’s understanding that RHY had agreed to recall their army from that location and he clearly states that in his mail to Demios (RHY) of the 22nd September. Demios responded to that mail some 15hours before the battle to inform Messer that Messer’s incoming army is likely to be destroyed. Neither of those mails have been made available by RHY in their declaration although they are the exchanges that deal directly with the first battle. As RHY has been rather free in making certain mail available for public view I feel justified in posting these on the Absa public forum and will do so shortly.

For this battle on a location that Messer belived he was occupying by agreement in support of SkB RHY chose to demand 30m with menace. RHY have posted that mail.

Following the first battle RHY moved a second army to the mine location allowing their existing occupying army to return.  In short they reinforced so denying SkB access and creating the circumstances for further conflict. That was their decision to cry foul about it now let alone demand compensation is not the action of players who were looking to resolve matters. RHY refer to this battle in their declaration as being one in which thousands died. You can see for yourselves from the battle report.

From: System

Subject: FW: Gathering units destroyed at -403|-184

Received: 26 Sep 2012 10:47

Original Message:

Two opposing forces clash against each other.

Swordsmen, and especially cavalry, find attacking into very mountainous terrain difficult - although ranged units can excel.

Narrow passes and gulleys hinder any mounted units' ability to defend adequately. Nimble spear units have no such worries here, and defending bowmen are able to use their height advantage to maximum effect.

Attackers:              Unit:       Quantity:               Casualties:             Survivors:

Commander: Agamemnon (T2 cavalry)             Knight   1              Damaged for 67, 233 health remains.

Troops:    Knights 994         669         325

Commander: Ben Hur (T1 cavalry)     Charioteer           1              Damaged for 67, 33 health remains.

Troops:    Charioteers         994         669         325

 

Defenders:            Unit:       Quantity:               Casualties:             Survivors:

Commander: Lord Mord      Death Dealer      1              Damaged for 100, 0 health remains.

Troops:    Fangs    67           67           0

Commander: Mitennial         Protector             1              Damaged for 100, 0 health remains.

Troops:    Elven Trueshots  150         150         0

Troops:    Sentinels              290         290         0

Troops:    Wardancers        1575       1575       0

Commander: Tristan              Phalanx                1              Damaged for 100, 0 health remains.

Troops:    Phalanxes            127         127         0

Troops:    Wardens              324         324         0

Troops:    Sentinels              57           57           0

 

On this occasion RHY were removed from the square they increased their demand to 70m or the expulsion of two players from Absa. This was a situation that could have been easily avoided by RHY. In fact they should never have created the circumstances in the first place  but having done so chose to make things as difficult as they could and by making unreasonable and excessive demands chose to give themselves a cause for war. If you believe otherwise then ask yourself to whom your alliance would consider those mine locations should belong and if RHY made such demands of you would you capitulate.

RHY make great play of how reasonable they are and the concessions that they have made over various resource disputes in what they deem their territory but they seldom, if ever, mention that the locations concerned are not near their cities.

Slightly before the 1st October Absa cities started to receive a high number of scouting incidences and other diplomatic attacks. Namely sabotage and theft.

On the 1st October seven of Hugie’s (Absa) armies where attacked and destroyed by RHY whilst claiming sovereignty next to his city.

Subsequently several of Absa’s cities in Keppen had incoming attacks which turned out to be feints.

Absa limited it’s response to all of those to mail that RHY mentions in its declaration as taunts. In short we had no intent of allowing RHY to goad us into declaring war on them so that they could claim to be a victim.

It is our belief that having delivered their ultimatum they never had any intent of a diplomatic solution. Absa believes that there was no justification for any compensation to be paid in a situation that at RHY’s option had been completely avoidable.

Our mistake was in thinking that RHY were more bark than bite and that at some stage common sense would prevail. Regrettably it has not and RHY have now embarked on a course of action that like it or not has the potential of significant impact on the future of Illryiad.

I submit to you that If RHY gets away with this then it sends a clear message that might is right in Illyriad and you had better hope that you are not in a small alliance.

 

Update: The main RHY sieges arrived in Keppen last night. There are six with siege camps from Legion to Concurpia. None of those sieges of which I am aware at time of writing are against cities belonging to Hugie or Messer. SkB has mentioned one incoming attack against them so far from RHY.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 15:17
Jorcle's (ABSA) response above accurately outlines the attacks by ABSA players on RHY positions. ABSA is seeking to justify these attacks by arguing RHY had no claim to the mines that it was occupying, due to their close proximity to SkB cities.

RHY reiterates: ABSA had no business in this mining dispute, and our decision to declare war was based not on the control of the mine, but rather on the undisputed fact that ABSA attacked RHY in a completely unprovoked manner. In spite of being confederates, SkB and ABSA are separate alliances, and RHY's dealings with SkB in no way involved ABSA up until the point of the attack on September 24th. This conflict is a result of 1) ABSA interjecting itself into the mining dispute and attacking RHY, and 2) failing to make any attempt to resolve the matter diplomatically: we never received any kind of counter-offer or good faith gesture before 9/30 to resolve the matter diplomatically.

These battle reports also confirm that the ABSA attacks were indeed malicious attacks with full intent to destroy. We never received messages from Messer claiming that these attacks were sent in error, or any kind of sincere conciliatory gesture. Messer never made any personal attempt to remunerate for the troops lost.

For ABSA, we understand that they feel their actions are justified by RHY's unfair claim to a mine they believe belongs to SkB. RHY disputes that opinion, but even if it were true, it would not justify ABSA attacking RHY. This originally was an issue that SkB and SkB alone should have dealt with, without military assistance from their confederates in ABSA. Now our issue is with ABSA.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 15:18
Bets, anyone, on the time before RHYs sieges from this morning being crushed?

/off to go make popcorn
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 15:26
Oh, and i would also just like to add that the rare mine in question (seeing as we know it's a rare mine, one worth fighting over, i'd like to know just what is in that mine) is quite OBVIOUSLY the sole property of SkB, it being 2 squares away from an SkB member and close to several others as well and RHY had no business being there. They do, however, have the right to try and TAKE it away, except all i see now is RHY throwing temper tantrums cause ppl said "NO!" to this.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 15:30
I would just like to ask what is the point of a confederation other than to assist allies in times such as this?  Saying ABSA had no right to help their ally is completely wrong and honestly a moot point.
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