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Salararius 
Postmaster 
Joined: 26 Sep 2011 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 519 |
 Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 05:31 |
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Run to Consone? Absa is part of Consone. How do you "run to" something you are part of? Do you "run to NC" or is that the reason we are all part of alliances and confederations? If I pick a fight with "Oxford", will it run to "Saxon" (both Sir Bradly's cities) or will it "fight it's own battles"? Rhyaglle chose a conflict with SkB which is in confederation with Absa which is part of Consone. That is clear and above board. Nothing hidden there, no "running" involved. Rhyaglle has escalated a "resource war" into a "city war". Fights over mines are a re-occurring part of the game. Absa actions were at the behest of a smaller confederated alliance that Rhyaglle holds blameless. If the smaller alliance is blameless for requesting military assistance then why am I (as a member of Absa) to blame? It was not a random attack by all of Absa but Rhyaglle's response has been random and directed at any member of Absa within reach. Absa struck to remove Rhyaglle forces from one location. That is a clear, concise and limited goal. What is Rhyaglle's goal if not the elimination of every Absa member in reach? Rhyaglle should expect Consone to fight. As far as Rhyaglle has acknowledged, they didn't even deign to contact Consone. If Rhyaglle does not expect Consone to fight, then so too should others. If no one expects Consone to fight, then Consone is a joke and we should be laughing and not talking about it. Can you say the same for Rhyaglle? Have any new members joined specifically to be part of this fight? Is Rhyaglle "hiding" behind these new members? Is anyone "lurking" behind Rhyaglle? Which side is above board here and where are people running, and lurking, and skulking? I would say that Rhyaglle is "running" to the forums. That would be a proper characterization. They are trying to make it sound most unfair if Consone fights as Consone has publicly pledged to fight. Why would Rhyaglle choose (they are attacking numerous Absa cities, not simply the two members that supported SkB) a fight with a member of Consone if Rhyaglle doesn't want to fight Consone? Can I pick a fight with just Oxford and then say Oxford is running to your other cities when they strike back? Seriously, I think that's just silly and I think people should laugh at me if I were to seriously post it here. I think these characterizations are silly too. The only extent which these characterizations are not silly is if they influence Consone not to respond. In that case, well, they worked and Consone is silly and I think everyone will laugh at Consone. |
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Salararius
Postmaster
Joined: 26 Sep 2011 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 519 |
Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 05:42 |
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I'm not responding for Absa, just asking people to consider the following thoughts.
"at the behest of SkB players. SkB members had requisitioned ABSA confederated to eliminate our player's forces" This RHY quote clearly acknowledges that SkB requested Absa military aid and contextually it's clear that this is a mining issue. From my limited knowledge this wasn't the only "mining issue" between RHY and SkB (or RHY and Absa). If RHY would kindly post every "mining" issue RHY had with SkB then this simple "mining issue" could be viewed in context. Another point of context would be the location of this simple mining issue. How can we discuss a war without discussing the pattern of incidents that started the war? Who here thinks wars start sans a pattern? How can Absa actions have nothing to do with a mining issue if SkB requested assistance with a mining issue and Absa's response was isolated to the location of the mining issue? If this is not about a mining issue, then it's about the loss of troops. How can it be about a loss of troops when RHY acknowledges "our player re-took his position on the rare resource mine that Messer attacked" that RHY chose to send troops to the square specifically to engage in battle? The most simple reason for RHY to do that is because of a mining issue. I think we're back to the fact that this isn't about a mining issue because RHY seems to be looking for it to be about something else. That pretty much makes it not about a mining issue so what is the bigger pattern? I think this is about RHY's "right" to put troops wherever they like. How does everyone feel about that "right"?
No mention is made if Jefke agreed to the compromise or if the RHY player just agreed with himself? How did Jefke "appear" to be satisfied? Where is that IGM? This paragraph appears to describe a declaration. If the declarer is much bigger and the second party subsequently asks for help dealing with the declarer then that's not an agreement and Jefke isn't satisfied. Can RHY really feel otherwise at this juncture? But seriously, if we knew the location in question we could all decide for ourselves if we would be "satisfied".
No fighting had commenced to this point because SkB wasn't strong enough to fight RHY. If they had, then you could simply swap SkB for Absa in the original RHY post. That's hardly a point...
SkB does not "appear" satisfied at this point. Maybe RHY erred and SkB was never happy? So, does that give Absa any reason for involvement?
Post all the battle reports so people can see how many troops each side lost and put that in relation to the reasonable diplomatic demands made. Again, post the location of the dispute and post all the reasonable concessions RHY made to SkB leading up to this situation. Vague allusions to concessions and diplomacy are no substitute for facts if you want to post here.
*inquiries ***mod edit to remove links to private messages*** Edited by GM Luna - 12 Oct 2012 at 04:07 |
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dunnoob
Postmaster
Joined: 10 Dec 2011 Location: Elijal Status: Offline Points: 800 |
Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 05:59 |
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Darmon
Forum Warrior 
Joined: 15 Aug 2012 Status: Offline Points: 315 |
Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 06:27 |
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Um...what? Is that contradictory, or am I just super tired? (Maybe the linked items are more illuminating, but I'll save those for when I wake up, assuming they're still there...)
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Rill
Postmaster General 
Player Council - Geographer Joined: 17 Jun 2011 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 6903 |
Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 06:37 |
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I think there were two different mines being discussed, not that I understand why any of the rest of us care. Wherever the mine is, it's too far for me to mine it and I don't have a miner's guild anyway. I'm sure whoever is in the area will work it out somehow.
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Diomedes
Forum Warrior
Joined: 26 Mar 2012 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 208 |
Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 06:37 |
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The two chief dangers in this sorry saga are already apparent:
1. An endless discussion in the forum regarding a very small incident that has escalated into war. Thus we debate whom did what to whom, and why ad nauseum, as a sort of voyeuristic show; 2. An attack by one alliance involved in a confederation on another alliance involved in a confederation, inevitably will bring in more players and alliances - as in RL, so it is with Illy. The only hope is for the combatants to stop responding to comments here, and find a way to resolve their differences. Someone once said, "The best man in a fight is the one who walks away before it starts."
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"Walk in the way of the good, for the righteous will dwell in the land"
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Mogul
Forum Warrior
Joined: 23 Sep 2011 Status: Offline Points: 233 |
Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 06:46 |
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So your towns "own" 24 closest squares around them and if someone is harvesting there you call them "The offending party". But when you occupy with army and harvest on square that is within those 24 squares around other alliance town it is called "RHY player successfully secured" square. Besides that square is totally surrounded by maybe 15+ SkB towns and if I understood it correctly all fights where happening only on that square and 5+ days after you agreed to leave it... I mean all fights except RHY players now siege some random Absa players... --- Personally I don't think Consone will respond same way and start to siege your players but if you hope that your siege armies won't be attack you are most likely wrong.  (however even I am part of Consone, this is just my personal opinion as I found out about this conflict only few minutes ago when I saw siege notice in GC)
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LordOfTheSwamp
Forum Warrior
Joined: 23 May 2011 Location: Swamp of Fyrgis Status: Offline Points: 481 |
Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 10:26 |
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There are two issues here, as far as I can see.
1) RHY decided to claim some mines that someone else had a better claim to. A bit aggressive, but unfortunately there's a lot of that about. (Heck, we've seen someone in WE being obnoxious over gatherables and we're supposed to be Confederated with them!) Not a massive deal. They can't be surprised if their victims get grumpy and attack / ask their confeds to attack in order to take back what they reasonably think is theirs. 2) RHY launch diplo attacks, and now launch sieges and declare War because... errr... they didn't like someone standing up to them? (If there's a better reason, I'm not seeing it.) The two are not in the same league. (1) would just be "fine, so they're being jerks - sadly some alliances have decided to respond to the new gathering and crafting by being jerks, that's just how it is." (2) is seriously "WTF?!" (Edited to remove vague grumpiness!)
Edited by LordOfTheSwamp - 10 Oct 2012 at 11:55 |
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"A boy is building sandcastles on a beach. You go and kick down his castle. You could say that it only reflects how you play with sandcastles. Others may think it reflects who you are." - Ander.
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LordOfTheSwamp
Forum Warrior
Joined: 23 May 2011 Location: Swamp of Fyrgis Status: Offline Points: 481 |
Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 10:33 |
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As an update: last night, shortly after the declaration of War versus Absa, the Frost town closest to RHY's main concentration was hit by a massive Theft attack. This may be a coincidence, but it's the first major theft attack we've suffered in a year, so you'll forgive me for suspecting that RHY are trying to stir up a bigger conflict.
You'll also forgive me for observing that several big alliances - but most notably RHY - have had limited involvement in the tournament, so my pessimistic side fears that someone has been planning to start a big war for a while, and the Absa/SkB mines dispute is just an excuse, waiting until people are weakened by the tournament.
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"A boy is building sandcastles on a beach. You go and kick down his castle. You could say that it only reflects how you play with sandcastles. Others may think it reflects who you are." - Ander.
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RHY Press Office
New Poster 
Joined: 07 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 19 |
Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 12:27 |
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This is precisely the crux of our conflict with ABSA. Again -- we were never headed for war with SkB over that mine. The issue was that we were attacked in a completely unprovoked manner by ABSA, who had no stake in the mining dispute. Players are welcome to focus on this being a war over a mining issue, but it isn't: it's a war over being attacked by another alliance over a issue that didn't even involve them, and their unwillingness to negotiate a diplomatic resolution. Of particular note: The above admission is a confirmation that Messer and Hugie indeed were asked by SkB members to attack our position on the mine. Messer was deft enough in his original reply to not explicitly admit that he was acting at the behest of SkB. This was the reason why SkB has not been included in our declaration of war; there was no explicit proof of collusion between the two alliances. Thanks to the above quote, we now have an admission of a conspiracy, with two alliances, SkB and ABSA, collaborating on an unprovoked attack on RHY troops.
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Rhyagelle Responds To Absaroke Aggression
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Sir Bradly wrote: