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GM Luna 
New Poster
Community Manager
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Location: Illyriad
Status: Offline
Points: 2042
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 Topic: Remove Gifting Medals Outside Alliance
Posted: 21 Jul 2012 at 02:15 |
And with that extremely offensive example directed at me, this discussion is finished.
Luna
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GM Luna | Illyriad Community Manager | community@illyriad.co.uk 
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Brids17
Postmaster General
Joined: 30 Jul 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1483
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Posted: 21 Jul 2012 at 01:57 |
 GM Luna wrote:
As I described earlier, no player can actually force anyone to spend any prestige on anything. No more than they can make me buy them a cupcake. They can say it, but they cannot make me do it. Not with game mechanics. There is nothing about medals that is pay to win.
Luna |
If someone told you they had embarrassing photos of you in real life and said they'd spread them around your workplace if you didn't give them money, would that be acceptable? You could say no, they couldn't force you to give them money right? You would just have have extremely negative consequences that might result in you losing or quitting your job.
Same thing here. They can wipe out all your cities, even siege and attack you non-stop until you either quit the game altogether or pay up. And the reason this is different then changing your city name or sending gold or advanced resources is because saddles don't pay the bills or buy you food. I shouldn't have to lose all by cities or be forced to quit a game because I can't afford to pay someone off using real money. The problem with this is that it's not just a gameplay mechanic, it's something that starts to get mixed into my real life money situation.
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Albatross
Postmaster General
Joined: 11 May 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1118
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Posted: 21 Jul 2012 at 01:07 |
I'm not against gifts of inter-Alliance medals, but participation (in the giving of, and receipt of) medals should be on an 'opt-in, case-by-case basis', because it costs Prestige, which carries real-world monetary value (or cost). Players must never be coerced into to parting with their Prestige.
Every reasonable attempt should be made to avoid extortion, involving anything of real-world value.
If it's evident that a settlement was made, involving Prestige, then it's possible that someone was pushed into a reluctant choice of paying 'consequential damages'. If those damages have tangible monetary value, then we're in very uncomfortable territory.
This game has no 'give Prestige to player X' functionality, precisely to avoid a legal minefield. Let's not test the boundaries of this principle.
You cannot use the "free prestige" argument here.
(which argues that people receive free prestige every day, therefore it costs nothing to give Prestige, as medals). If you 'paid out' your 'free' Prestige on a compensation agreement, then you don't receive the benefit of that Prestige, and to receive that benefit you'd need to replace it, at a monetary cost.
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Kumomoto
Postmaster General
Joined: 19 Oct 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2224
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Posted: 21 Jul 2012 at 00:14 |
bansisdead wrote:
geofrey wrote:
If you don't think elvish archers are cool, ignore them. |
Or bite off their ears and wear them as medals, which is also cool.
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Now you are thinking like a true Orc! Bravo!
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bansisdead
Postmaster
Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 609
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Posted: 20 Jul 2012 at 22:33 |
geofrey wrote:
If you don't think elvish archers are cool, ignore them. |
Or bite off their ears and wear them as medals, which is also cool.
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surferdude
Wordsmith
Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 103
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Posted: 20 Jul 2012 at 22:28 |
invictusa wrote:
A person can attain prestige via purchasing it with RL money. Therefore all prestige is only attained by money. Anyone can use prestige to purchase a medal for someone else. Sometimes newbies will be visited by thieves because they are a typically easier target. Therefore newbies will be forced to buy medals for other people. |
So someone will thieve a newbie until they give in; then send them 500k gold so they can set up an alliance to award a medal? Sounds a bit round about and a medal doesn't give you any advantage in game. Sieging and capturing someone's prestiged city is therefore sure a far worse crime? You've disadvantaged them, advantaged yourself and taken their money? Or is raising worse as you are just throwing away their hard work?
Edited by surferdude - 20 Jul 2012 at 22:33
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invictusa
Forum Warrior
Joined: 16 Dec 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 488
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Posted: 20 Jul 2012 at 22:14 |
A person can attain prestige via purchasing it with RL money. Therefore all prestige is only attained by money. Anyone can use prestige to purchase a medal for someone else. Sometimes newbies will be visited by thieves because they are a typically easier target. Therefore newbies will be forced to buy medals for other people.
Edited by invictusa - 20 Jul 2012 at 22:23
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...and miles to go before I sleep.
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geofrey
Postmaster General
Joined: 31 May 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1013
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Posted: 20 Jul 2012 at 22:13 |
Muristie wrote:
Kumomoto, it's a choice, and a risk, you take when purchasing prestige. Lacking the choice (thus- forced) to spend it, is a different thing.
Removing medal gifting outside alliances will not "solve the problem", it's quiet simple to go around it.
Drawing examples from other MMOs- correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it forbidden to trade 'game items' for real money, in WoW for example?
I think that in this case the GMs should interfere with an artificial, out of the game law. Isn't it the same as walking down a street and mugging someone?
Sure, they have a choice, but in a case where it's a losing alliance vs. a winning alliance, they don't really have a choice other than the community [which in turn has lots of other motives rather than just fair play, nothing wrong with that].
In other games bullying is forbidden by the GMs {"give me xyz or I'll raid you" etc. }, to which I disagree. I like the option to be able to bully someone's gold out of them, but when this becomes real money, that's just wrong.
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actually wow sells "vanity items" for real money. They just don't want anyone else getting in on the action, so they put it in their terms of service for others not to sell goods for real money.
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geofrey
Postmaster General
Joined: 31 May 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1013
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Posted: 20 Jul 2012 at 22:11 |
The_Dude wrote:
Medals used as tribute payment to end hostilities means real money is required for a player to play Illy. This is exactly the opposite of the single most attractive element of Illy as an MMO - you can succeed without spending money. This system reverses that. There is a real danger that soon players will be demanding Medals from others to avoid attacks - what Luna calls PvP. If this happens in RL, it is called Extortion.
Medals are being used purely to divide players between Medals and Non-Medals: Money players and Non-money players. Medals are the single most obnoxious element of Illy.
Introduction of Medals indicates that the Dev team is trying to permanently alter to community of Illy towards the typical play-to-win MMO. That's a shame. |
Not to offend you, but I believe the divide between medal and non-medal players is being pushed mostly by you. I know you claim to block anyone who has a medal in global chat as a form a protest. You are creating the very divide you are opposed to. And I don't have a problem with that, just getting it out there.
Medals are cool, just like elvish archers are cool. If you don't think elvish archers are cool, ignore them.
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Muristie
New Poster
Joined: 18 Jul 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 42
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Posted: 20 Jul 2012 at 22:07 |
Kumomoto, it's a choice, and a risk, you take when purchasing prestige. Lacking the choice (thus- forced) to spend it, is a different thing.
Removing medal gifting outside alliances will not "solve the problem", it's quiet simple to go around it.
Drawing examples from other MMOs- correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it forbidden to trade 'game items' for real money, in WoW for example?
I think that in this case the GMs should interfere with an artificial, out of the game law. Isn't it the same as walking down a street and mugging someone?
Sure, they have a choice, but in a case where it's a losing alliance vs. a winning alliance, they don't really have a choice other than the community [which in turn has lots of other motives rather than just fair play, nothing wrong with that].
In other games bullying is forbidden by the GMs {"give me xyz or I'll raid you" etc. }, to which I disagree. I like the option to be able to bully someone's gold out of them, but when this becomes real money, that's just wrong.
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Remove Gifting Medals Outside Alliance
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