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hellion19
Forum Warrior
Joined: 01 Aug 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 310
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Topic: Remove Biome penalties on crafted items Posted: 01 Sep 2012 at 05:47 |
JimJams wrote:
Hadus wrote:
- Chitin-Cored Bow (+8% Cav Def, +8% Spear Def, +8% Bow Def, +8% Sword Def, -16% in Arctic, -16% in Desert, -16% in Jungle)
- Three-Wood Bow (+5% Cav Def, +5% Spear Def, +5% Bow Def, +5% Sword Def, -16% in Arctic, -16% in Desert, -16% in Jungle, +3% for Elves)
I think the dev's reasoning with these two bows is that they intend for bows in general to be less effective in extreme climates. If that's the case I don't think it's necessary to remove the bonuses
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Those two bows are a joke for elf. Both are defensive bows, and for elf the second is slightly better because of 3% attack gain. Both are useless in biomes, having only negatives values.
My point here is, bow users, need to have 2 pieces of equip, one for biome and one out of biomes, and may be more, because if you want to cover all the possibilities you need 4 items (3 specific biomes items + 1 out of biome).
Sword and spear users have high bonus items with no penalties on biomes....
Fair ? |
I think the plan was more so to make bows a bit more effective out of biomes while less effective in some of those biomes. Also I wouldn't expect all things to be 100% fair in every aspect as some got certain advantages that others didn't. Also always looked at archers as more of a defensive type thing anyways outside of game usually with a line of archers waiting for their enemy to get in closer to hit with a volley of arrows... Though it seems for quite some time now archers were the main unit and worked fairly good against quite a few things. Now with bows you have to try to gear your people for the biome you live in or plan to do most of your fighting in. If you mostly operate in the jungles you have a jungle bow. If you do most in a desert you have a desert bow. If its not in a biome then stick with a bow thats not designed for a specific biome.
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JimJams
Forum Warrior
Joined: 20 Sep 2011
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 496
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Posted: 01 Sep 2012 at 00:41 |
Hadus wrote:
- Chitin-Cored Bow (+8% Cav Def, +8% Spear Def, +8% Bow Def, +8% Sword Def, -16% in Arctic, -16% in Desert, -16% in Jungle)
- Three-Wood Bow (+5% Cav Def, +5% Spear Def, +5% Bow Def, +5% Sword Def, -16% in Arctic, -16% in Desert, -16% in Jungle, +3% for Elves)
I think the dev's reasoning with these two bows is that they intend for bows in general to be less effective in extreme climates. If that's the case I don't think it's necessary to remove the bonuses
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Those two bows are a joke for elf. Both are defensive bows, and for elf the second is slightly better because of 3% attack gain. Both are useless in biomes, having only negatives values.
My point here is, bow users, need to have 2 pieces of equip, one for biome and one out of biomes, and may be more, because if you want to cover all the possibilities you need 4 items (3 specific biomes items + 1 out of biome).
Sword and spear users have high bonus items with no penalties on biomes....
Fair ?
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Salararius
Postmaster
Joined: 26 Sep 2011
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 519
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Posted: 31 Aug 2012 at 15:36 |
Ander wrote:
Rill wrote:
The human warhorse appears to be designed for humans to defend plains with cavalry -- which granted, we don't want to do anyway, but if you HAVE to defend with cav, maybe this makes it slightly less bad? |
The "nimble warhorse" gives 24% defense against all unit types, without any defense penalty. The human battlebred gives 20% bonus, and has penalties on biomes as well as non-plain terrains. That makes the battlebred redundant. |
I started off with the exact same thought, now I'm less sure. I'd consider this as a default mount for cav. It offers no attack penalty if not unmounted (99% of my cav attacks are in non-biome plains). It gives a significant defense boost to cav sitting in non-biome, plains, cav cities (that's where mine are). It's cheaper to make than the nimble warhorse because herbs are ~25% of the cost of hides (which is less than 5% of the total cost, but still). It's also a lot more practical to get 10s of thousands of herbs than hides so I think in the market these will ultimately be priced lower (if anyone bothers to make any).
I don't know. It's still pretty sucky but I see what they were trying to do with it. It would be a better choice with no biome penalties and lower (or no) terrain restrictions.
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Aurordan
Postmaster
Player Council - Ambassador
Joined: 21 Sep 2011
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 982
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Posted: 31 Aug 2012 at 15:30 |
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It's pretty clearly a continuation of the joke that is human's crafted items.
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Myzel
Wordsmith
Joined: 19 Feb 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 101
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Posted: 31 Aug 2012 at 11:26 |
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It's not. I can only think of one reason for its existence, and that is the possibility that battlebred horses can be used by all troop types while warhorses can only be used by cavalry. This is just conjecture though.
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SugarFree
Forum Warrior
Joined: 09 Feb 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 350
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Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 17:08 |
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it's less expensive form what i hear.
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Ander
Postmaster General
Joined: 24 Apr 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1269
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Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 16:38 |
Rill wrote:
The human warhorse appears to be designed for humans to defend plains with cavalry -- which granted, we don't want to do anyway, but if you HAVE to defend with cav, maybe this makes it slightly less bad? |
The "nimble warhorse" gives 24% defense against all unit types, without any defense penalty. The human battlebred gives 20% bonus, and has penalties on biomes as well as non-plain terrains. That makes the battlebred redundant.
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Salararius
Postmaster
Joined: 26 Sep 2011
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 519
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Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 14:48 |
There are buildings that give up to 20% bonus in biomes. Another advantage of buildings is they aren't destroyed in combat. That is the specific biome benefit and it's pretty substantial.
I really don't think that the crafted item penalties penalize people living in biomes so much as they penalize someone trying to project their forces into a "non-native" biome. These "awesome" weapons that work so well for a player with cities in the center of Illy all of a sudden don't work so well when that player tries to attack me in the Jungle. But, my Jungle Warfare college seems to be working quite fine. If I want to attack a player in the center of Illy from my city in the Jungle, I can still use these awesome weapons just as effectively as the player in the center of Illy.
Someone living in a biome has no trouble using this stuff to project their forces outside their biome assuming they aren't projecting into another biome. Regardless, they still get the 20% bonus when attack/defend inside their biome (assuming they built the building).
The bottom line, these penalties are the same for each side. Therefore, there is no +/- specific to the biome where you built your city, only where the combat occurs and that is the same for both sides whether both cities are in the same biome or not.
I realize there is more to it than this, it's one angle I didn't see appreciated in this discussion. I have cities in a biome, I like the penalties. Please keep them.
Think this through...
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Rill
Postmaster General
Player Council - Geographer
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 6903
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Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 12:28 |
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The human warhorse appears to be designed for humans to defend plains with cavalry -- which granted, we don't want to do anyway, but if you HAVE to defend with cav, maybe this makes it slightly less bad?
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dunnoob
Postmaster
Joined: 10 Dec 2011
Location: Elijal
Status: Offline
Points: 800
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Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 09:42 |
Ander wrote:
The human special warhorse is completely useless - it has even less plus stats than the normal "nimble warhorse". In addition, it has penalties on not just biomes, but all terrains too. Totally redundant unit! |
Battle mules for dwarves are also dubious, as I don't usually pick cavalry to occupy and defend hills and mountains. Apparently I'd get +15% attack and +20% defense on hills and mountains, with a -10% penalty for speed.
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