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Ander 
Postmaster General
Joined: 24 Apr 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1269
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 Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 07:16 |
Trueshots already have 33% more attack than longbowmen. Now that they get a bow with +24% to trueshots only (and not longbowmen), they complain the bows are not usable in biomes and elves in biomes are highly penalised! :D
As everytime, humans get screwed. The human special warhorse is completely useless - it has even less plus stats than the normal "nimble warhorse". In addition, it has penalties on not just biomes, but all terrains too. Totally redundant unit!
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Hadus
Postmaster
Joined: 28 Jun 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 545
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Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 02:10 |
- Elven Spirit Bow (-12% Attack, -6% Cav Def, -6% Spear Def, -6% Bow Def, -6% Sword Def, +5% Move Speed, -18% in Arctic, -18% in Desert, -18% in Jungle, +6% in Day, +24% for Elves)
- Dwarven Champion's (+4% Attack, +10% Cav Def, +14% Spear Def, +14% Bow Def, +10% Sword Def, -25% Move Speed, +6% on Hills, +2% on Mountains, -10% in Arctic, -10% in Desert, -10% in Jungle, +8% for Dwarves, -12% for Elves, -12% for Humans, -12% for Orcs
- Battlebred (+20% Cav Def, +20% Spear Def, +20% Bow Def, +20% Sword Def, -5% on Hills, -15% on Mountains, -10% in Forests, -5% in Arctic, -5% in Desert, -5% in Jungle, -20% for Dwarves, -20% for Elves, -20% for Orcs)
With these, I think the penalties should be completely removed. Jungles are filled with forests, so it's very common for tree-loving elves to settle there, and applying a penalty to an elven bow is just ridiculous. The same can be said to a lesser extent for humans in the plains and dwarves in mountains. - Chitin-Cored Bow (+8% Cav Def, +8% Spear Def, +8% Bow Def, +8% Sword Def, -16% in Arctic, -16% in Desert, -16% in Jungle)
- Three-Wood Bow (+5% Cav Def, +5% Spear Def, +5% Bow Def, +5% Sword Def, -16% in Arctic, -16% in Desert, -16% in Jungle, +3% for Elves)
I think the dev's reasoning with these two bows is that they intend for bows in general to be less effective in extreme climates. If that's the case I don't think it's necessary to remove the bonuses. - Ancient Pattern Armour (+10% Cav Def, +10% Spear Def, +10% Bow Def, +5% Sword Def, +5% Move Speed, -8% in Arctic, -8% in Desert, -8% in Jungle)
- Heavy Platemail (-2% Attack, +4% Cav Def, +4% Spear Def, +4% Bow Def, +4% Sword Def, -20% Move Speed, -5% in Arctic, -5% in Desert, -5% in Jungle)
- Heavy Warhorse (+5% Attack, -5% Move Speed, +10% Carry, -5% on Hills, -5% on Mountains, -5% in Forests, -5% in Arctic, -5% in Desert, -5% in Jungle)
Here I feel the same as with the above bows. Heavy armor would naturally be undesired in the desert and jungle where it's hot. Not sure why there's a penalty for the arctic though.
Edited by Hadus - 30 Aug 2012 at 02:10
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DeathDealer89
Postmaster
Joined: 04 Jan 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 944
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Posted: 29 Aug 2012 at 22:30 |
I agree that the massive bio penalty on pretty much everything makes them useless. Further you can't just use the biome gear because it has a measely +6% half the time.
I would highly suggest removing bio buffs on all weapons except those meant to be used in a biome. IE Desert gets negative in Arctic and Jungle and vice versa.
Leave the other weapons alone with these -20% biome hits otherwise they simply can't be used. That being said even if I could build every single weapon/armor I would only use maybe 1/4 of them because most of them provide far more negative penalties than positive boosts.
I'm fine with crafting, but come on with this much effort being put into making a weapon you should not be rewarded with -20% all stats, oh and if you use it perfectly you get +5% simply doesn't add up.
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JimJams
Forum Warrior
Joined: 20 Sep 2011
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 496
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Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 16:53 |
Some points: - The ALL-biomes penalties cannot be seen as a race oriented balance against trueshots, because the penalties also hit other races archers, and only hit elves IN BIOMES. So it doesn't balance nothing at all, but create more unbalance.
- The disadvantage doesn't go both way. While players who settled out of biomes cannot use those items to ATTACK other people settled IN biomes, players settled IN biomes cannot use those items to DEFEND themselves. I think there is a BIG difference, because you can decide who you want to attack, but you cannot decide to not defend.
- I find particularly stupid to design a dedicated elvish item with those penalties on. No racial dedicated item should have terrain or biome FULL penalties. It could be ok to have a mix, to underline a racial trait, but flat penalties for all biomes on a dedicated racial item is a nonsense.
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TomBombadil
Greenhorn
Joined: 15 Aug 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 78
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Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 16:00 |
^^ Agreed. The disadvantage goes both ways.
Although my jungle mountain Trueshots can't really use all the available bows and armour, any invading force would have to think really careful about what equipment they want to use against them in turn. However if I want to invade the desert dunes with my Trueshots I'll have to make some loadout adjustments myself. The easiest would be just to revert back to the standard equipment for such endeavours.
The unfairness of it all provides a fair amount of depth.
Edited by TomBombadil - 28 Aug 2012 at 16:02
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Progressor
Greenhorn
Joined: 07 Mar 2012
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 62
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Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 14:30 |
Those Biome penalties make it unusable for Biome inhabittants...
...but they also make it unusable against Biome inhabitants.
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Aurordan
Postmaster
Player Council - Ambassador
Joined: 21 Sep 2011
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 982
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Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 13:56 |
Quick aside, the orc-specific weapons are spectacular. Humans are the ones who pretty much go screwed. It almost makes me question the infinite wisdom of the Devs that they put defensive bonuses on a horse.
On topic, I think taking advantage of the jungle only bonuses will give far more advantage than you're losing out on with the few weapons that don't work quite as well. And you can always throw them on when you leave the jungle too.
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SugarFree
Forum Warrior
Joined: 09 Feb 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 350
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Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 12:32 |
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o who cares about elfs and dwarfs... have you taken a look to the orc stuff? and you complain... high food jungle nuts are now crying? lol, build jungle-gear and shut up..
Edited by SugarFree - 28 Aug 2012 at 12:32
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dunnoob
Postmaster
Joined: 10 Dec 2011
Location: Elijal
Status: Offline
Points: 800
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Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 12:24 |
 JimJams wrote:
Dwarven Champion's (+4% Attack, +10% Cav Def, +14% Spear Def, +14% Bow Def, +10% Sword Def, -25% Move Speed, +6% on Hills, +2% on Mountains, -10% in Arctic, -10% in Desert, -10% in Jungle, +8% for Dwarves, -12% for Elves, -12% for Humans, -12% for Orcs) |
This is rather convoluted, apparently they could simplify the stats: - For dwarves outside of biomes: +12% attack,
+18% cav/sword def, +22% spear/bow def
- For dwarves in special biomes:
+2% attack, +8% cav/sword def, +12% spear/bow def
- For others outside of biomes: -8% attack, -2% cav/sword def, +2% spear/bow def
- For others in special biomes: -18% attack, -12% cav/sword def, -8% spear/bow def
- For everybody anywhere: -25% move speed, +6% on hills, +2% on mountains
It is always good for dwarves, it is 10% better outside of biomes, and almost always bad for others. The elven spirit bow is a similar case. Your towns in the jungle can also use weapons with a jungle bonus, and penalties for arctic/desert biomes. In comparison my towns in a jungle surrounded by deserts are at a disadvantage, they need two sets of mutually exclusive "biome weapons".
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Garth
Forum Warrior
Joined: 10 May 2012
Location: Somewhere, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 249
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Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 11:03 |
JimJams wrote:
... This is particularly big for "bows", all three items with the highest penalties are bows, and even more for elves, as the racial discovered blueprint lead to a bow with 18% all biomes penalty, making it useless for all the biome living elves (like me). ...
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I imagine most elven accounts with multiple towns in the jungle (or, less common, the other two biomes) agree with this. 7 of my 8 towns are in Larn (an entire region of jungle), and when I look through the crafting list, essentially every item I'd most like to use has a biome penalty that makes it incredibly less attractive to my jungle armies. Jeez, the Elven Spirit bow, being used in the jungle, gives only a 5% bonus to speed, is nil on defense, and is actually -6% on attack. Oh, except for during the day, when there's a 6% bonus (total of +6% on defense and 0% on attack). And its crafting includes 50 mana, 10 research points and a rare herb? Zoiks! Biome elves basically have no use for their race's specialty weapon, if you ask me.
My impression from looking at the crafting list is that other races don't have the same restrictions. I assume this is a stab at deemphasizing the overall robust stats of elven archers. Kinda messes with my army configuration patterns, but so be it, Illy is a living, changing game.
And perhaps elves will be feeling vindicated when battle magic comes out, and Elven magic bonus takes on a little more meaning ;)
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Remove Biome penalties on crafted items
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