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Topic ClosedRare Res and their Armies

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Loud Whispers View Drop Down
Wordsmith
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2012 at 15:21
Quote Let's say a player twice your size claims a rare herb spot and kills your harvesters in the process, even though you were there first. Why do you deserve it?
When it's 1 square besides your city?
"These forums are a Godwin's Law free zone."~GM Luna

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Hadus View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2012 at 04:47
Am I the only one who's strangely enjoying their fear of larger alliances simply taking what they want? It's a GAME after all, and one of the reasons I enjoy gaming is for the challenge. As a player of sub-4000 population, trying to acquire what I need/want while co-existing with players far, far stronger then I am is an entertaining and very satisfying challenge.
 
I'm really glad those with the power have a chance to use it on something worthwhile now, since it adds such a more exciting dynamic to the game. When we create concrete, absolute rules like "first come, first serve" and "everyone should get a piece of the pie," the game becomes nothing but monotony, luck, and a heaping helping of whining. Since real lives and livelihoods are not in danger here, and in most cases neither are the cities people have been building for months or years, I see no problem in accepting that "might makes right."
 
Let's say a player twice your size claims a rare herb spot and kills your harvesters in the process, even though you were there first. Why do you deserve it? Because you saw it first? What about the amount of time and dedication that player put in to grow his armies and cities so that he/she could possess the power to lay claim to such spot? Does that take a backseat to you happening to see the spot on the map first, a factor which measures nothing other than chance and perhaps a little diligence?
 
As someone mentioned earlier, communication is key. Here's an example of a situation that occured today. I spotter a rare herb spot unguarded, about 8 or so squares from another player. I greatly desired to harvest the spot, as the rare herbs around my gatherer city were all strongly protected and I'm in no position to even barter with the behemoths around it. Before sending an army, however, I messaged the nearby player asking if he/she was planning to harvest there, and if not, could I occupy and harvest it? I got a reply back thanking me for the contact, and that I was free to harvest. Lucky me! I promptly threw together a few charioteers to race to the spot and occupy until my herbalists made it.
 
Unfortunately, when I logged on later today, I was notified that my soldiers had slaughters some poor gatherers who apparently had been sent out and moved onto the spot between the time when I sent my troops and when they arrived. I decided the best thing to do was send the player an apology message. Lo and behold, the player responded, thanked me for the notice, and said he/she didn't even notice anything had happened, recognized that it was accidental, and that was that.
 
Once I'm big enough to have a decent army, I would love to engage in some friendly competition, premeditated and organized, with my neighbors for the rare spots. I would also like to test out some shared harvesting systems where we take turns owning the spot and harvesting, perhaps on a weekly basis. Overall I'm very happy with all the updates and the fact that it seems to have stirred the denizens of Illy a little.
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Prometheuz View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2012 at 13:45
Byand large I think that the Illyriad community are a fairly passive bunch. In a game which is described  as " persistant" (ie indefinite) and elite of players have established themselves at the top of the food chain, as  it were, I think that it is highly likely that smaller players and smaller alliances will tend to acquiesce to the needs and wants of the established and the powerful....

There are those who proclaim to have some sort of socialist vision whereby they believe that they can set up some sort of mutual exchange system based on cooperation and collaberartion that system will fail and only those schemes that do not undermine the playing privlieges of the powerful will be entertaned . In practice for such a scheme to survive in Elgea it would have to be subordinated to the will ( and perhaps the whim of the powerful). Of one thing I am fairly certain such a system would never benefit  all players irregardless of alliance or length of time in Elgea. It would likely benefit  a select few ...a clique... who's existence is acceptable to the powerful....

Most players are now of the mind set where they do not want carry out any action that might hinder the existence or growth of their own cities ...although they may be belong to alliances they are in fact individualised... they will submit or subordinate themselves to any player that they perceive to have a higher status than themselves. I think that this is leading us all towards a general inertia in the gamiing element of The Illyriad. One which may lead to a falling off of membership and accounts.

Utopian visions of cooperation and... never suceed in RL and for reasons stated above I would not be foolish enough to believe that they will suceed here. The Crow family can adopt it as an experiment perhaps...and actually put some of their ideas into practice, but I certainly wouldn't recommend that kind of system to say CONSONE who would be far better off implementing DLords strategy of " what belongs in the sovereign area belongs in the sovereign are and is only traded if it suits us"....

Lastly we can never exclude the premier allaince of Illyriad. Are they willing to be cooperative and collaberative...well yes, maybe but only if it suits them to do so or to put it in the words of HonouredMule " Harmless? is a military alliance".

The real question to ask  here  is which is the best way to proceed which makes the game more playable?



Edited by Prometheuz - 11 Aug 2012 at 16:39
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Tordenkaffen View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2012 at 13:16
I truly weep for you...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2012 at 13:03
the sheer amount of troops (AND diplomate, BTW to sabotage the small like me) on silversteel mines is just mind blowing. 
o wait, maybe imagined that spy report...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2012 at 12:54
I have to say that gradually as people are beginning to have had their initial fills with crafting, the problem doesnt seem that big anymore. Ofcourse there are a few precious minerals sought after by many, and from time to time they will spark some conflict, but from the wider perspective things are actually becoming more lax, with less armies out and about. 

Could it be that we are imagining the problem?
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gangas View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2012 at 11:47
well there go's that idea back to drawing board 
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Rill View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2012 at 11:46
that works on herbs, gangas, but not on rare minerals.  Sneaky devs!

Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2012 at 11:40
if your going to lose your resource to a larger alliance by means of force best option in my opinion mine it out of existences your going to lose it any way   
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2012 at 11:07
To be clear, HUGcr is a smaller alliance involved in just such a dispute with a larger alliance.  I don't honestly think that HUGcr should get the square just because they are smaller or were there first.  Shockingly enough, Ryelle agrees with me.  We are negotiating in good faith with the larger alliance, but at the same time we recognize that at some point we might have to fight for it -- and we might lose.  Hopefully the result will be that people have fun and end up respecting each other.

I tend to be a socialist (which is why my brothers always beat me at Monopoly).  I believe that cooperation and collaboration are ultimately the winningest strategy.  At the same time, I think there's a place for healthy competition.

I don't know what the "right answer" is in all this.  Maybe there are as many right answers as there are squares on the map.

I do think Illy will be healthier in the long run if people could compete in some way for particular squares without having a bunch of drama over who is good and who is bad and who is right and who is wrong.  I think it would be fun to have a match of strategy and armies in which no one's city is at stake.

Maybe the key is for the smaller alliances to line up a coalition that will allow them to compete with the larger alliance.

I don't have the answers, but I do think that the way forward is one in which we emphasize respect and having fun, and whenever possible development of win-win-win-win solutions (since many times there are more than two parties involved in a potential conflict).
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