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Rill 
Postmaster General 
Player Council - Geographer Joined: 17 Jun 2011 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 6903 |
 Posted: 21 Sep 2012 at 00:48 |
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I didn't say anything dictating how anyone plays. I described how I play, and why I believe it makes sense. Other people can play the way they like to play. I have been very clear throughout that I am expressing my beliefs and or opinions and made clear that there are other equally valid beliefs and opinions.
Personally, my style is not to try to set how other people play, except insofar as it directly affects my play. If other people want to set how other people play, that is also a valid way of playing.
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belargyle
Forum Warrior 
Joined: 17 Jun 2010 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 401 |
Posted: 21 Sep 2012 at 00:11 |
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Only for some, but I agree. And no one was twisting anything Rill. The problem is this for both you and Blind Scribe... your view is not the only view and in a sand box (which Drejan was stating) is made up of varied views which can be seen as right, from most any vantage point. Therefore breaking it down to its lowest demonstration.. what is right is for the person or group that sets the playing style they like but who also has the ability to maintain what and how they wish to play.
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belargyle
Forum Warrior
Joined: 17 Jun 2010 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 401 |
Posted: 21 Sep 2012 at 00:07 |
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I understand you point but your premise is off from the start.. You do loose. What you don't mine does not disappear. And if you are mining it, that time is replenishing... not loosing. Now if you wish to state the person is so engrossed in harvesting elsewhere consistently then there is a potential for good but again, this must be quantified. Another problem is in your premise is in your point of contention that if you "..do someone a solid.." that it's "..likely gonna be returned at some point.." This is conjecture and the hope that a good 'could' come from it. This doesn't necessitate good will, only that you hope it will. Therefore you receive from the event no good but have instead given good toward another. Not the same thing.
The first people that should be helped at all times is those of your alliance and your Confeds. That would be like stating.. I have food and you can have some and I'll feed my kids whatever is left over. I agree you would want to develop relations with others but there are so many other ways of doing to it that to use this seems like a stretch 'to me'.
No, that is not what said.. though at the same time I never said there were not any goods that can be derived.. however as my case shows you would of necessity have to be a loner. Scenario 3...perfectly fine...we can change the paramaters to better suit...you can't have enough cities (even with an alt account) to make everything it's possible to make from harvestable t2 resources...city specialization is the order of the day, and if you can't USE the raw materials you're getting, why is it completely incievable that you could form a profitable partnership that allowed someone who WAS specialized in "X" (whatever X is) to come get it, and cut you in on the finished product? :) Again, you need to qualify what you mean by 'profitable'. To whom and by what measure. If you are referring to friendship, what is the standard of measurement (I don't believe there is one really) but if by money, what is the measure of profitable and in this I can agree, if profitable, it can be good. Remember here.. I just arguing devils advocate and have never said I didn't agree with you :) .. don't shoot me just cause I can see a different view and can argue to it. LOL
Edited by belargyle - 21 Sep 2012 at 00:08 |
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Anjire
Postmaster 
Joined: 18 Sep 2010 Status: Offline Points: 688 |
Posted: 20 Sep 2012 at 23:53 |
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Rill and Blind Scribe you have both sidetracked from the original post and are assuming that they are saying no harvesting can be done whatsoever.
So, from the original post and to take care of your hypothetical situations: It has been a constant problem for my alliance members so I am
addressing the issue officially and informing the illy community with my
alliance stance on the matter. The announcement by Foresaken hinges on simple common courtesy of the harvester: make arrangements prior to sending. It is very likely that one of Blind scribes "scenarios" can then easily be worked out. |
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Kilotov V2.0
Greenhorn 
Joined: 08 Sep 2012 Status: Offline Points: 59 |
Posted: 20 Sep 2012 at 23:49 |
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the High king posts makes sense, and seriously, it's you who is twisting what Bel says every time...
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Rill
Postmaster General
Player Council - Geographer Joined: 17 Jun 2011 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 6903 |
Posted: 20 Sep 2012 at 23:42 |
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Try as hard to twist it however you might, Bela, there are MANY ways that cooperation beats competition in the game, resource gathering being only one of them.
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BlindScribe
Wordsmith
Joined: 12 Sep 2012 Status: Offline Points: 168 |
Posted: 20 Sep 2012 at 23:38 |
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And here's one taken from my own game. I do not like micromanaging herbalists and skinners. I find it boring to the point of being painful. There are other folks who do. I've worked out arrangements where they harvest and keep a cut for themselves. I get goodies to sell and make gazillions of dollars, and I don't get saddled with MM. That's win-win. :)
Edited by BlindScribe - 20 Sep 2012 at 23:39 |
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BlindScribe
Wordsmith
Joined: 12 Sep 2012 Status: Offline Points: 168 |
Posted: 20 Sep 2012 at 23:25 |
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In scenario 1, you "lose" nothing because you were never gonna get anything anyway (your harvesters are too busy to be bothered)...but you GAIN goodwill from a neighbor, which can lead to all sorts of additional gains in the future. We don't play this game in isolation, right? So if I do you a solid by letting you harvest something I can't get to, that's likely gonna be returned at some point...that's not an unreasonable expectation, is it?
Then of course there's the question...why assume the person in question is not a member of your alliance or confed? Those seem like EXACTLY the sorts of people you'd wanna develop such cooperative relations with, yes? Scenario 2....you agree! It can be a good deal (I assume you would not agree to it if you didn't think it a good deal tho, right? Which renders the other cases moot) Scenario 3...perfectly fine...we can change the paramaters to better suit...you can't have enough cities (even with an alt account) to make everything it's possible to make from harvestable t2 resources...city specialization is the order of the day, and if you can't USE the raw materials you're getting, why is it completely inconcievable that you could form a profitable partnership that allowed someone who WAS specialized in "X" (whatever X is) to come get it, and cut you in on the finished product? :) Edited by BlindScribe - 20 Sep 2012 at 23:48 |
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belargyle
Forum Warrior
Joined: 17 Jun 2010 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 401 |
Posted: 20 Sep 2012 at 23:16 |
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I am bored so forgive me but on this I will play devil's advocate:
Qualifier - I'm presuming this is someone not in your alliance and not a Confed. But where is the good here due to them mining your resources, now you now have either less or nothing in the mine. Benefit, a friend who will continually come back and take from you. Not a great friend :) Even if one states for military purposes, as you qualified 'this' as being a low priority tile I can't think of many who would even bother with it.. so security isn't an issue. Here you loose.
This one is still a loose senario due to the fact that they are mining your mine which you could have received more money for via selling the items mined or harvested yourself rather than renting it out the mine and getting substantially less. Additionally if owner can't mine due to his units being out, his alliance friends can work with him, or Confed friends. Secondly, it is also a loose situation in that if the person does not have nor intends to have harvesting units but is Aligned. He gives to another, now his alliance also cannot benefit from the resource(s) and thereby cannot additionally extend benefits toward him/herself through alliance based connection. Because he was giving to another instead of those he oathed him/herself to. However I will state this, your above can be a good - IF the person is non-aligned and does not have nor intends to have any type of harvesters he would make a profit and only in this point is it a good deal. .
Again, in my mind a loose but not based upon the aspect given but a change in what is being discussed. Cotters do not harvest what Miners, Skinners, and Herbalists gets and this is the discussion. I don't know of anyone fighting or arguing over a cotters collection of basic T2 Resources thus it is not germane to the discussion in play. And due to that - loose. Wow. I really am bored Edited by belargyle - 20 Sep 2012 at 23:28 |
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BlindScribe
Wordsmith
Joined: 12 Sep 2012 Status: Offline Points: 168 |
Posted: 20 Sep 2012 at 21:32 |
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Okay, I'll play. :) Let's define some occasions when it would be "good" to let someone harvest a mine near you. 1) your harvestors are all busy anyway, and getting to that particular tile is low priority. 2) you can work out a recipricol arrangement with a specific player where they pay you for the rights to harvest in your sovereign lands 3) you can work out a similar arrangement where they do the harvesting of basic resources, give the materials to you, and you sell them some portion of the finished goods, or offer them a piece of the finished goods action at a discount (this is especially good when you're talking about a really advanced city...cottages can't be upgraded, and only "house" a single cotter, making them a fairly weakish building...better to let a newer player take those duties, and get a cut of the finished goods action...thus, you can cooperatively move toward greater city specialization. There are many more, but this should serve as a jumping off point.
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Rill wrote: