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Elf Dragon View Drop Down
Greenhorn
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Joined: 18 Apr 2012
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Points: 58 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Rankings
    Posted: 14 Jul 2012 at 17:34
Yeah, I think I get it now, because when I look   Source breakdown for Overall Score
It says Tech: 40%, but if u look Rankings, I'm very low compare to the Source breakdown for Overall Score
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Rill View Drop Down
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Joined: 17 Jun 2011
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Points: 6903 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2012 at 15:52
Originally posted by Innoble Innoble wrote:

jordigui:


On the other hand, the diplo exploit is VERY easily fixed. All you have to do is eliminate defensive diplo score, something that does not have to exist at all in the current ranking system. It is a redundant part of the scoring system because succesfully defending at diplo comes at no loss and should give no score. Offensive diplo is high risk and comparatively giving 20 times less score.


Hey! defensive diplo score is all I've got!   Well, I did get 20 points from thieving an inactive. (Out of 240, I think it's pretty clear that I'm not manipulating that score.)
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Rorgash View Drop Down
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Joined: 23 Aug 2011
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Points: 894 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2012 at 14:43
alot of the rank comes from grind, if you do it with a alt or friend or on the market its the same deal. and if anyone didnt get that raising your score doesnt get you a higher rank then wth.. you arent ranking against static AI scores that doesnt change... i thought that was quite understandable.. 
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Joined: 06 Dec 2011
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Points: 141 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2012 at 14:36
jordigui:

I don't think those suggestions would do the trick. Compare the top rankings to my own. Trade is a ranking  I did not manipulate (like i did diplo). I do trade a lot and I now have a little over 1B points. The top player has 100x as much.

That means that even if you dont count the top trading partner and/or your alt (as you suggest), it is going to be manipulated to the extent that regular trading will not even come close. You can easily use an alliance mate instead of your alt, or boost trade with another partner. If you make it harder maybe people will have 10x as many or 20x as many points instead of 100x, but it will still be bad.

On the other hand, the diplo exploit is VERY easily fixed. All you have to do is eliminate defensive diplo score, something that does not have to exist at all in the current ranking system. It is a redundant part of the scoring system because succesfully defending at diplo comes at no loss and should give no score. Offensive diplo is high risk and comparatively giving 20 times less score.

The diplo exploit leads to a million points in a month if you really want it to. It took me 30 days to go from 0 points to the nr 1 position

Check here for the post I made when I was still at 0 points and found this exploit:

http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/getting-diplo-points_topic3014.html


Edited by Innoble - 14 Jul 2012 at 14:40
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Wordsmith
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Joined: 20 Jun 2010
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Points: 157 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2012 at 20:33
I agree with Rill. And there are very clear examples.
I believe that at this point (well even before), devs should take a decision: eliminate the ranking system or make small but significant changes that could solve this problem.
When it comes to trade for example it could be considered on the formula that trade with your alt (or the player you have trade with most) does not count for ranking. Easy, and should work ...
 TH
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Rill View Drop Down
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Joined: 17 Jun 2011
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Points: 6903 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2012 at 18:58
Originally posted by The_Dude The_Dude wrote:

Originally posted by Yhina Yhina wrote:

PS dont mistake score and rankings. Every action in a given field, magic, trading, etc, gives out points... then you get "ranked" based on whoever has more points in that field. They are related of course, but arent the same thing. You might gain points but not necesarily "increase your rank" as it might not be enough to go pass the previous player, as others are getting points aswell over time, and so on.

And I think there is a weighted formula that involves the player's points compared to the total Illy population's points.  So even while your raw points increase, you can decrease in _rank_ if the total Illy population is outpacing you.  I think that is how that works.  The Devs have a thread in the forum on it somewhere.

Ranking in any given category is calculated based on a proportion of a particular player's score in relation to the score of the person with the top score in that category.  Which is why the people who manipulate the top scores in any given category (trade score comes to mind) are essentially ****ing everyone else in the game.  Pardon my language.


Edited by Rill - 14 Jul 2012 at 02:22
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The_Dude View Drop Down
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Joined: 06 Apr 2010
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Points: 2396 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2012 at 17:16
Originally posted by Yhina Yhina wrote:

PS dont mistake score and rankings. Every action in a given field, magic, trading, etc, gives out points... then you get "ranked" based on whoever has more points in that field. They are related of course, but arent the same thing. You might gain points but not necesarily "increase your rank" as it might not be enough to go pass the previous player, as others are getting points aswell over time, and so on.

And I think there is a weighted formula that involves the player's points compared to the total Illy population's points.  So even while your raw points increase, you can decrease in _rank_ if the total Illy population is outpacing you.  I think that is how that works.  The Devs have a thread in the forum on it somewhere.
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Elf Dragon View Drop Down
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Joined: 18 Apr 2012
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Points: 58 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2012 at 16:29
Thanks, I think I get it Smile
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Joined: 04 May 2012
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Points: 61 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2012 at 13:52

Technology : the points are given based on the cost of RP of a given research ( so a 6k RP tech gives 6k points to that score, while a fast 200 rp one, just 200). In other words, sov tech tree has tons "of points" to this score when researched. Libraries just give out more RP ... unless you have empty research qeue due to RP shortage, a bigger library wont give you a better tech score over time.

Trade : by trading. Both buying and selling gives out points. The ammount of points is based on the ammount of goods "spent" in the trade. So buying (with gold) gives out far more points than selling a few adv items for gold. If you actually spent the gained gold again to buy other diferent stuff, you would get more points aswell. Dont recall the numbers off head, but i believe it was something like 2 points per res move ( as simple as write down your score, not your ranking, before doing a trade, and see afterwards to see the diference.. then just do the math of the ammount of good and the points gained..)
 
Defense : xp gained while defending. So yes, it implies killing on defense. Thus, killing 100 charioteers while defending, would give you 300 score points in defense (3 upkeep * 100).
 
PS dont mistake score and rankings. Every action in a given field, magic, trading, etc, gives out points... then you get "ranked" based on whoever has more points in that field. They are related of course, but arent the same thing. You might gain points but not necesarily "increase your rank" as it might not be enough to go pass the previous player, as others are getting points aswell over time, and so on.
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Elf Dragon View Drop Down
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Joined: 18 Apr 2012
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Points: 58 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2012 at 13:28
Hello!
I'm not so intrested in rankking, but I would still like to know some things.

Technology  Few months ago, I was somewhere in the middle of tech ranking, now I'm very low.
Some players said that it helps if u research researches, I need to research almost only half of sov. In all my cities, and I'm still low. Some said with upgrading your Library: Is this true?

Trade
How do you get this ranking?

Defense
Is it necessairly that you need to defense yourself by an attack to get higher ranking here?

please post any how tos if you know them.


Edited by Elf Dragon - 13 Jul 2012 at 13:28
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