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PVP in The Broken Lands
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ajqtrz View Drop Down
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    Posted: 26 May 2015 at 19:14
Originally posted by Jejune Jejune wrote:

Well, Damage, it's a work in progress, and the BL will only be as dynamic and different from Elgea in gameplay as those who settle there make it. I think that there is a lot of optimism among the players and alliances there now to make it into something worthwhile and unique, and efforts are being made across the entire continent. Time will tell, for sure.


The BL will only be as dynamic and different from Elgea in gameplay as those who settle there make it"....good luck with that.  If you have the same people with the same attitudes and beliefs about how to play the game and how the game should be played you will end up with the same result.  If you want something different you have to express yourself and try to convince others...though the if the formula for what some consider "success" in Illy is the same you will probably end up with the same stagnation.  Only a different vision for TBL has any chance of making TBL different, and that takes leadership with a vision.  So far I think most leaders would rather "win" than really change how TBL operates in comparison to Elgea.

I'm not sure where the optimism is coming from...I don't see much of it expressed in this forum...but maybe I've missed something.  Do let me know where I should point my eyes so that I don't miss it.

And you are right, "time will tell."

AJ
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Originally posted by Angrim Angrim wrote:

a much smaller fraction has seen both sides satisfied by the conclusion of a war, and that would seem to be the challenge...keeping some sense of sportsmanship in play.
I'd just like to make a quick comment on this statement: I don't believe both sides can be satisfied with the outcome of a war (tournament, sure). I also do not accept that sportsmanship is dependent on both sides being satisfied with the outcome.
Bonfyr Verboo
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Jejune View Drop Down
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Well, Damage, it's a work in progress, and the BL will only be as dynamic and different from Elgea in gameplay as those who settle there make it. I think that there is a lot of optimism among the players and alliances there now to make it into something worthwhile and unique, and efforts are being made across the entire continent. Time will tell, for sure.

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So basically BL is just a rebirth of the original Illy, kinda like a take two except that most are better prepared than when the game first began. A lot of hype but little substance, might have been just as worthwhile finishing some of the items mooted over the years in Elgea. Have fun down there.
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Not a whole lot more warring, no, Mr. Damage. I returned to the game in August and promptly joined SIN. Since that time, there has only been one war in the Broken Lands, which was SIN v. RE. That lasted for a few months and only ever involved the two alliances. A bit of that war was fought in Elgea, since we still had some cities there waiting to exo that were targeted by RE. 

I think part of the reason why there hasn't been more wars in BL is 1) the sparse population makes for less "friction" at present 2) those alliances that lean toward maintaining a robust military are ether still militarizing and/or haven't had any contentious dealings with one another yet. 


Edited by Jejune - 18 May 2015 at 11:07

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Mr Damage View Drop Down
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Is there any warring going on down there? Seems just as lacklustre in BL as it has become in Elgea, so much for the Promised.... I mean Broken Lands.
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Points: 2396 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brandmeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2015 at 17:32
The changes to crafted item stats caused a burst of speculation in raw materials, followed shortly by a price crash. Raw material prices still hover around 150% of the pre-change prices, certainly not reflecting the entire 5x boost. The main issues with crafted items continue to be that: 1. Most of them are useless, 2. Of the useful items, many raw materials (notably elemental salts) are so supply constrained that the items cannot be produced in useful quantities, and 3. Around 90% are destroyed when used for anything but city defense. I will also comment that for a few useful items, the raw materials are abundant, but prices are still held high by inadequate processing capacity. I seriously doubt that anyone would go to war over crafting materials.

@Jejune: I think your metaphor would be better with American football and rugby. While both share similarities, they are markedly different in rules and frequency/type of contact.
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Originally posted by Jejune Jejune wrote:

All of the rhetoric aside, I think that the vast majority of wars in Illyriad have been fought voluntarily by willing participants.
i am not quite sure what you mean by this. by definition, all wars in illyriad are fought voluntarily by willing participants, because no one is forced to play the game. a much smaller fraction has seen both sides satisfied by the conclusion of a war, and that would seem to be the challenge...keeping some sense of sportsmanship in play.

Originally posted by Jejune Jejune wrote:

Just the other day in the war livestream hosted by GM Rikoo, GM Stormcrow spoke in the chat room several times about how he continues to look for ways to "create friction" between players (his words, not mine).
he has also, on prior occasions in which the same comment was made, clarified that that does not necessarily mean war. sadly, the devs have not done much to expand the methods for the pursuit of conflict: thieves remain very nearly useless due to the invulnerability of hub storage, diplomatic units remain sadly underdeveloped, new schools of magic are mere rumour, and the strategic implications of pathfinding seem unlikely ever to be realised. likewise, the opportunities for conflict have been reduced rather than expanded; with the opening of BL and now the purging of sat accounts, fights over available land seem very distant indeed. perhaps the increase in the power of crafted items was intended to spur conflict over the raw materials. someone more in tune with the market might comment on how it has affected prices, but i am not aware of any less civilised conflict over them. the supply of resources available so outstrips the demand, i think it is unlikely to do much more than it has.

rl history would seem to teach that when there are no economic reasons for conflict, humanity tends to create them from principle and personality, or else resort to sport, which is what i think we're seeing in BL.
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Jejune View Drop Down
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All of the rhetoric aside, I think that the vast majority of wars in Illyriad have been fought voluntarily by willing participants. To be sure, the tournaments are fun, as are pvp war exercises, but I also think that a plurality of players in the game -- perhaps a silent majority -- do also enjoy wars that are provoked by the meta-game aspect of Illy and involve strategic motives. These are the wars that are often remembered by players and alliance -- not the war exercises and tournaments.

There should and always will be a place for friendly combat in the game. However, there also needs to be a place for strategic conquest and play. Just the other day in the war livestream hosted by GM Rikoo, GM Stormcrow spoke in the chat room several times about how he continues to look for ways to "create friction" between players (his words, not mine). Thus, it is on the mind of the game's creator to foster this kind of conflict in the game as well.

So, to bring this discussion back to the Broken Lands, I think that what many BL players and alliances hope to do on this continent is foster a slightly different type of play, governed by ideologies that might diverge a bit from Elgea. I wouldn't say we're trying to create a "new game," but rather a permutation on the game established in Elgea. To use a baseball comparison, something like the subtle differences between the American League and National League, which in turn lead to pretty significant differences in how teams are composed and how games are played.


Edited by Jejune - 16 May 2015 at 13:25

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ajqtrz View Drop Down
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I never could figure out why anybody would complain because their neighbors are going to war.  As long as I'm free to not go to war then let them have their fun.  War is for warriors and as long as you don't force me to become one I can live with that.

For those who may think I'm against war, I'm not.  I'm against involuntary warfare and unjust coercion.  Nothing about a friendly PVP tournament or battle suggests it's involuntary or unjust.  So have fun and get clobbered if you want.  Just let me stay home with my books and NPR.

Aj
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