Rename some of the Orc military units
Printed From: Illyriad
Category: Miscellaneous
Forum Name: Suggestions & Game Enhancements
Forum Description: Got a great idea? A feature you'd like to see? Share it here!
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=691
Printed Date: 17 Apr 2022 at 13:50
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Rename some of the Orc military units
Posted By: GlyphGryph
Subject: Rename some of the Orc military units
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2010 at 19:05
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Some of the orc unit names are confusing. For example we have both a Clanguard (basic ranged) and Clanguardsman (advanced spear) which is the worst, but also Death Dealer (advanced range) and Death Pack (advanced Cavalry) seem a bit odd. In addition, ALL orc units are actually Orcs or Goblins, but their description implies their civilization is a combination of Orcs, Kobolds, Goblins, and Trolls. Even "Kobold Cohorts", which sound like they would be kobolds, are actually orcs. So, at the very least the clanguard/clanguardsman thing needs to be changed, but in general I think the units could do with being renamed/redescribed. Here is a sample suggestion for the new names: Spears: Kobold Cohort - Kobolds drafted into a cheap fighting force. Orc Clanguards - True Orcish spearmen. Ranged: Kobold Flingers - Kobolds throwing light spears Orc Lobbers - Orcs throwing javelins. Infantry: Orc Fangs - Basic Orc infantry with scimitar and shield. Troll Blades - Heavy troll infantry, wielding giant swords and wearing heavy armor. Cavalry: Goblin Wolfrider - Goblins riding wolfs into battle. Orc Beastmaster - Orcs riding larger, meaner versions of the basic bear. Spies: Kobold Lurker Orc Listener Saboteurs: Orc Arsonist Goblin Demolitionist Thieves: Goblin Cutpurse Goblin Master Thief Scouts as is: Orc Hunters, Orc Stalkers. |
Replies:
Posted By: Aelfric
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2010 at 23:37
| Me likez tiz!! |
Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2010 at 02:39
| +1 to this idea |
Posted By: Bad Wolf
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2010 at 19:18
| Definitley needed. Should be easy to change, hopefully soon. |
Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2010 at 21:05
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+3 internets to GlyphGryph for this Some of the descriptions might need to change with these changes. Can anyone see any issues with changing the names of these units? It will mean that historic ingame mail battle reports will refer to units that no longer exist, but I'm not sure that's much of an issue. Thanks GlyphGryph. SC |
Posted By: Goonswarm
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2010 at 21:14
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plx give my orc account awesome names like this SC ill love you long time |
Posted By: GlyphGryph
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2010 at 21:57
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Aww, I win 3 internetz! Hurrah for me! Thanks SC. ^_^ Good to know my ideas are appreciated. |
Posted By: Wuzzel
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2010 at 22:12
No problems here. Orcs are ugly anyways... changing the names doesnt make them more beautiful  ------------- 
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GM Stormcrow wrote:Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2010 at 23:21
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One changethough - we can't have Troll heavy infantry, as we're reserving Trolls as summoned (magical) orc units. So another suggestion for heavy infantry? Best, SC |
Posted By: GlyphGryph
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2010 at 23:48
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Hmm.. I'll have to think about it. Also, I was thinking Goblin Sapper instead of Goblin Demolitionist might be cool, but both are good. |
Posted By: HonoredMule
Date Posted: 30 Jun 2010 at 02:25
| One request: if you could provide an authoritative list of all name changes before you implement them (i.e. mapping from old name to new name including plural forms), it would save a fair bit of trial and error updating various 3rd-party tools, and allow them to keep working without any downtime. |
Posted By: Noryasha Grunk
Date Posted: 30 Jun 2010 at 03:45
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I'm not feeling terribly inspired, so I have only two ideas First, replace troll with Orc and make them Orc blades. Second, slightly different thematically, call them Orc Wardancers - Masters of the blade, orcish wardancers are the elite of the orcish infantry. Though stronger and faster than standard infantry, their true deadliness lies in their ability to distract and intimidate their enemies into giving the orc an advantage. |
Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 30 Jun 2010 at 11:32
Yes, absolutely HM; we'll give at least a week's notice. |
Posted By: Shrapnel
Date Posted: 30 Jun 2010 at 16:29
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I love this idea too, but with a few modifications:
I don't like Orc Lobbers, sounds wimpy. This may be generic, but even just Orc Archers would be better.
How about Orc grunts for the basic orc infantry and Orc fangs for the advanced infantry?
Orc Beastmaster is ok, but they ride Worgs (meaner wolves), not bears. I definitely like Goblin Sappers much better than Goblin Demolishers. |
Posted By: col0005
Date Posted: 30 Jun 2010 at 16:40
| Actually orc beastmaster should be changed; If there really are plans to introduce a bestary at a later date the name would be very confusing |
Posted By: GlyphGryph
Date Posted: 30 Jun 2010 at 16:55
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...I think it would be cooler if they rode bears. So nyah. :P http://wow.zuggaming.com/wp-content/uploads/brown_war_bear.jpg http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/Dragonmarked_Gallery/101345.jpg And it still ends up being made of horses either way, so its just flavour. :P |
Posted By: HonoredMule
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2010 at 00:28
I always considered the greatwolf-rider an excellent fantasy variant on cavalry. I believe I first encountered wolf riders in Warcraft 1.
Thanks so much.  |
Posted By: Aelfric
Date Posted: 02 Jul 2010 at 01:54
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I believe the orcs in Tolkien's Middle Earth rode wolf-like mounts, so it's nothing new. What about boars? I think they're more "orc-oriented" than wolves. Wolves fit well with the elves. |
Posted By: Noryasha Grunk
Date Posted: 02 Jul 2010 at 04:45
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Goblins can ride boars! Like in Twilight Princess! And the Orcs can ride bears. ^vvv^ |
Posted By: GM Gryphon
Date Posted: 02 Jul 2010 at 20:41
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I believe "Worgs" is trademarked by the Tolkien family, but may be wrong. Boars is interesting. Since Orcs are basically porcine, would sort of be like riding your cousin... :)Also, I would avoid "Wardancers", as I think the Elves of same name might be mightily offended...
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Posted By: GlyphGryph
Date Posted: 02 Jul 2010 at 22:08
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Orc Brutes, then? Just burly orcs? Orc Hammers? |
Posted By: Leungarific
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2010 at 12:11
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Taking a leaf from Warhammer Fantasy/40K, I'd like to suggest renaming the conscripted force (basic spearmen) as "Gretchin". If this doesn't appeal, then I second Shrapnel's idea of Orc Grunts, or just plain Grunts (pun intended). |
Posted By: Vytek
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2010 at 12:53
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KK .. by no means a definitive expert on Orcs. Fantasy Role Play and most FRP tactical games define Orc and Goblin as 2 separate Races. Though they are linked by their green skin. If we are to mesh the 2 here then we need some definate catagorization of roles and uses. Goblins being weaker by far should be classed to spearmen and archers. While Orcs should bear the brunt of the fighting and the better units. Also bearing in mind that Tier 3 units and other units will come eventually lets adhere to the KISS rule for now. Spearmen Goblin Spearmen Orc Heavy Pike Ranged Goblin Throwers Orc Archers Infantry Orc Swords Orc Blademasters Calvary Goblin Wolf Riders Orc Warg Riders |
Posted By: lep
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2010 at 13:00
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Uruks would be a good name for Heavy Infantry but as with Wargs I think it may very well be Tolkienian. So as the basic one is Kobold Cohort why not just Orcish Cohort for the advanced. Cohort keeps the link showing they're basically same type.
Beastmaster's good but keep with Wolves, bears just silly, the biggest and baddest wolves can only be ridden by Orcs that have mastered the beast. Lobbers is OK, or Hurlers. Perhaps Javelineers but that doesn't sound, to me, very Orcish nor does Peltasts. Sappers way better than the mouthful Demolishonist. |
Posted By: Vytek
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2010 at 13:15
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Wargs while Tolkien are in every major FRP and FRP tactical pretty much: so using them isnt defining a setting. Orcs dont ride bears: in fact if bears were useful as a mount we would have had the Mongols riding them. Orcs r evil by nature so something bent and warped is probably more suitable and something bred to used as a mount. Orcs are also pretty basic in their thinking. Now while cool names sound good. a basic military structure is needed. Since the Tier 1 ranged for orcs uses a spear in construction then .. Goblin Thrower's would be a more suitable name. The idea is for a correct unit structure and decent names. So that in the end we know what we are building and the use. At least thats how I percieve it. Uruk is actually a Race name in Tolkeins world: hence Uruk-Hai .. the Race of Uruk's. Orcs there breed like rats and are very darwinisticaly adaptable. So area effects the breed. There is even a Black Orc breed that Sauron bred specifically and magically enhanced to be pretty much invincible. Contrary to most orc breeding lines. |
Posted By: Laccy
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2010 at 13:45
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Love it love it love it. Well done GlyphGryph. Can't have Troll Heavy Infantry? So instead of Troll Blades make 'em Orc Blades! Just to throw a chicken into the mix, the Elfquest series has elves riding wolves... |
Posted By: Gromsh
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2010 at 20:26
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Greetings lords and ladies of Illyriad. I've recently been added to the Illyriad team with a mandate to help in the development of lore and background for the Illyriad factions. Stormcrow asked me to read this forum and get cracking on renaming the orc units. I will ofc be bringing my own ideas to this, but I'm loving a lot of your thought and ideas already. In fleshing out the orc faction I've had these thoughts so far: The faction will still be named Orc but be put under the overall race group called Greenskins. This means that it's the Orcs who are in charge (numbers plus, and I'm using the term loosely here, brains makes them the natural leaders) but all greenskins will be a part of the faction. A hiearchy order: Orc Troll (not just a dumb monster in my book) Hobgoblin (Fierce militarized goblins, also slightly larger and stronger than their cousins) Goblins Ogres Slaves This is not to say that a goblin cannot rise higer than a hobgoblin, he can like any other unit become a commander, or a troll fall to being a slave. It's simply a generalized order within the orc faction. here are the units as I see them so far, feel free to comment on them and come with suggestions to alterations: Spearman 1: Made of Goblins, called Stabbers or Swarmers Spearmen 2: Made of Hobgoblins, called Green fists (they are the backbone of any greenskin army) Infantry 1: Made of lightly armoured orcs, Orcfangs as suggested by GlyphGryph Infantry 2: Made of heavily armoured orcs and trolls, called *insert orc god for war's name* 's fists (Lore on gods comming soon (tm) Or possibly Deathbringers, Destroyers, Scourges. Archery 1: Made of Goblins, called Goblin archers. Archery 2: Made of Ogres throwing spears (javelins really seeing as they are so big), called... I have no clue really, suggestions are very welcome. Cavalry 1: Made of Hobgoblins on Wolves [Name TBC], called [Name TBC]. Nicknamed "lunchers" by the goblins seeing as so many riders gets eaten by their mount. Cavalry 2: Made of heavily armoured Orcs on Dire Worgens, called Dark Riders. Siege 1: Made of heavily armoured Ogres with bigass clubs (trees really), called Iron Rammers, or just Rammers. Siege 2: made of tons of goblins, alive dead or wounded and several catapults, called Goblin Catapult. It's really operated by either orcs or hobgoblins, but the goblins are the ammunition more often than not. Thieves 1: Goblin unit called Scavanger. Thieves 2: Hobgoblin unit called Plundere. Spy 1: Goblin unit called Goblin Spy Spy 2: Hobgoblin unit called Dark Spy (uses a bit of magic) Saboteur 1: Goblin unit called Detonater. Saboteur 2: Goblin unit called Bomber. (Hobgoblins aren't dumb enough to take this job) Assasin 1: Hobgoblin unit called Deathdealer (goblins, although sneaky, are not to be trusted with important tasks like these) Assasin 2: hobgoblin unit called Hand of *insert proper orcgod name here* Scouts stay the same Goblin for lvl 1 and 2. Messenger: Hobgoblin unit called Messenger or Rider. I considered using more appropiate names for the Orc faction, ie. what they would call the units them selves, as in Warhammer (Goblins = Gobbos) but would rather leave it up to the players to name their divisions and armies. I know that Goblins and Hobgoblins are overepresented, but the orcs have the important jobs such as blacksmiths, carpenters and so on. They only join the "good" ranks of the military. Now before you start screaming about why the ogres aren't in the mix of the infantry, let me add that we are considering adding Elite units (considering meaning that this is very far down the line so far) and I'm holding them back in case of this becomming a fact. All of this is more or less of off the top of my head. None of this is set in stone and I would welcome your suggestions and thoughts on the whole thing: Am I missing an important greenskin race? Is a name completely off the block? Sincerely Gromsh |
Posted By: Zangi
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2010 at 21:46
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So... yea.. 1. This is confirmation that: Troll Hobgoblin Goblins Ogres Do not have their own race/faction? 2. As for Slaves... why can't all races have them? >.> Where do they fit, as you mention em just once... 3. Considering the way Orcs have been portrayed in Illyriad... it does seem to infer that humans, elves, and dwarves are more... populous then orcs are... Seeing as Orcs rely on other races for its military strength... And population rate is still the same as the other races of Illyriad... Even if Orcs take all the good jobs and spots... the other races can fill that out well enough on their own. Do you take that into account when you are writing about the Orcs? >.> Will orcs have more spam capable units down the line...? Unburdened by the need for bottleneck equipment like the Kobolds we have now? |
Posted By: Gromsh
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2010 at 23:12
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A quick answer to Zangi: 1: Wether or not Goblins and Ogres will have their own small or large NPC factions isn't in issue here, the NPC factions are still under creation so if you see a Goblin village on the map some day don't be surpriced. The hiearchy is to generalize who is usually ontop within the greenskin "race" and the Orc player race. 2: As of right now slaves has only been talked about loosely, I probaply shouldn't have mentioned them. If they are ever introduced then there is nothing to say that any race wouldn't be able have slaves... IF, and that's a big if. 3: That Orcs are allied with other greenskins combined with equal population rate isn't anything you should be reading too much into. Greenskins are a "classical" combination of races that are often seen in fantasy books, games and roleplaying and this is all it reflects. Usually greenskins are a lot more "productive" in the area of producing new offspring than most other races but for the purposes of this games gamemechanics and balance their buildings produce the same population as all other races'. If you want an explanation past that think of it as there in fact being a lot more greenskins than any other major race but that most choose to live in tribes or warparties instead of cities. 4: The orcs aren't relying on others for military strength, they are them selves a part of the military, but are, as I said, keeping the good positions for them selves. The "throwaway" units are littered with Goblins and to some extent Hobgoblins, while the "knight" positions (such as cavalry 2) are reserved for Orcs. 5: As regard other races... humans doesn't use nobles for the front lines, and elves doesn't use their oldest and most experienced men on the front lines. Same goes for dwarves. This "class distinction" is all that's apparent in the greenskin "system" there are a lot of goblins and they do as they are told (when told by a bigger meaner person) therefore they are in the frontlines. Its a question of suitabillity, not having to "rely" on other races, it's what's most cost efficient for all races. After all, a knight takes a lot of money and time to train, and therefore you don't send him in with the attackwave you expect to get wiped out. 6: Your last point has nothing to do with the topic and isn't my "departement". I'm here to do Lore and History and general background. The only thing discussed here is renaming the Orc units to be more fitting to the classic view of orcs and greenskins and ofc a bit about what variations on that view could be. As always keep the comments, questions and ideas comming, its how we keep this game the best around: Player generated content. Sincerely Gromsh ------------- All we have learnt from history is that we haven't. |
Posted By: some random guy
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2010 at 00:41
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i'd prefer "kobold sentry" or "kobold ranger" for the basic ranged unit. |
Posted By: Gromsh
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2010 at 06:06
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I respect you preference, but Kobolds, being of the Dragonkin race, has little buisiness being with the greenskins. My instinct is to gather the greenskins and having the names reflect that. If you have other ideas please post them and we'll talk it out. Sincerely Gromsh ------------- All we have learnt from history is that we haven't. |
Posted By: Shrapnel
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2010 at 13:51
| Maybe you deliberately don't want to make the greenskin names like Warcraft, but I like the name goblin sapper for a saboteur. |
Posted By: Gromsh
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2010 at 15:07
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Well all due respect to warcraft, which I've played since Warcraft I, but they didn't invent either the term "greenskins" or the names for the species in that race. But if you have some suggestions as to what alternative subgroups could be in the "greenskin" race then I'm all ears (and eyes). Sincerely Gromsh ------------- All we have learnt from history is that we haven't. |
Posted By: Shrapnel
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2010 at 16:18
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I gave you one:
"...goblin sapper for a saboteur. "
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Posted By: Gromsh
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2010 at 18:13
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Sorry Shrapnel, I misread your first post. Well I like it better too, but being both a simple combination of two words Goblin + Sapper (which anyone can use) and a unit in a copyrighted game I don't know if we can use it, but I'll ask Stormcrow what he thinks. Sry for the misunderstanding. Sincerely Gromsh ------------- All we have learnt from history is that we haven't. |
Posted By: Vytek
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2010 at 16:01
| So far as I know .. no one has IP'd ( Intellectual Property) any fantasy race names. So I would believe you are good to go on borrowing whatever names you want. |
Posted By: lokifeyson
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2010 at 05:54
just look at Magic: The Gathering cards, lol -------------  |
Posted By: Vytek
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2010 at 12:35
| LOL'd .. you would produce the one manufacturer prone to IP madness. Though they cant IP words like Orc, they did IP the word 'Tap'. forestalling many decent clones. I did quit playing Magic after beta when they tubed my collecting and selling of the more valuable cards :( |
Posted By: lokifeyson
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2010 at 05:32
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could always call the clanguard what i do: spearchucker just add the word Orc or Clan in front, lol ------------- |
Posted By: KarL Aegis
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2010 at 22:24
------------- I am not amused. |
Posted By: lokifeyson
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2010 at 08:29
huh? every race was spearchucker at one point.....right? Besides read the description, its what they do, lol ------------- |
Posted By: some random guy
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2010 at 03:44
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in a book i read goblins used the tactic of running at a city wall and running up the ramp of bodies created by the casualties that resulted(i.e. head injuries caused by ramming the hard stone wall). Eventually the ramp would become so high that the goblins could charge over the wall and overpower the defenders. maybe this technique could be incorporated into a greenskin siege engine ------------- Soon, very soon, my name will become synonymous with chicken alfredo.... mmm.... chicken alfredo.... |
Posted By: KarL Aegis
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2010 at 04:39
Go starship troopers all over those creepy bugs. ------------- I am not amused. |