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Thoughts on Rudeness

Printed From: Illyriad
Category: Miscellaneous
Forum Name: The Caravanserai
Forum Description: A place to just chat about whatever takes your fancy, whether it's about Illyriad or not.
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=6540
Printed Date: 17 Apr 2022 at 06:27
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Topic: Thoughts on Rudeness
Posted By: ajqtrz
Subject: Thoughts on Rudeness
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2015 at 19:55

We start with this:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIh2xe4jnpk

The question asked, "Why do you gotta' be so rude?" is to the response to another question: "Can I have your daughter for the rest of my life? The exchange ends badly for the young man when the father says "no."  At which point the young man sings, "Why do you have to be so rude," and quotes the father by saying "You say I'll never have your blessing 'til the day I die' and finishes with the declaration that he's going to "marry your daughter anyway."

Now here we have a series of comments which may be viewed as rude.  "No" to a young man who, obviously, wants to marry the young woman, can be, in our current cultural milieu, considered a rude response, since to us the choice isn't the father's at all.  From this perspective giving his "blessing" would seem the polite thing to do.  And since, in most people's minds the opposite of being rude is being polite, if saying "yes" would have been polite, saying "no" must naturally be rude.

However, it may be that the rudeness is not in the "no" but in what follows, namely: "you will never have my blessing 'til the day you die."  This is supported by the phrasing "why do you have to be so rude" since "so rude" implies, I think, an emphasis on going beyond the simple "no." 

Now of course, when the young man knocks on the door dressed in his "best suit" one has to wonder how much thought and effort he has put into the matter as he approaches a button down suit and tie professional in less than appropriate formality ... especially if he wants to ask one of the most important questions a man can ask another man.  Compare his attire with the more respectful man seated next to the girl in the dinner scenes....where it's pretty obvious that the father and mother approve of him and they are hoping she will like the guy too.  He's formally dressed and appropriately so.  So, in the end you can see him as the more polite one of the two courters of the father's blessing.  And it goes on.

Is it polite to show up, unannounced, to cry through the keyhole?  Is it polite to question the man who's blessing is apparently important enough to ask, why he has to be so rude?  It may be understandable, but it's hardly showing wisdom, or the kind of wisdom that over comes the resistance of a father.

Of course the video wants the young man to be a sympathetic character.  We sympathize with him from the beginning.  He dresses more like the listener, his music if very well done (I love the music myself), and a sharp distinction is made between his love forlorn sadness, and the uptight suit and tie scowling faced father. 

But behind it are various attitudes, some rude, some polite.  It is the subject of this post to ask, how can you tell when someone is being rude and when they are not?

From the video we begin with the situation.  A young girl and young man are in love (one supposes) and they want to marry.  The young man (perhaps at the girls urging?)  decides to approach the father and ask for his blessing on the marriage.  This, in itself, is a formality and the willingness of the young man to engage in the formality, is a point in his favor.  However, he carries it off with a number of thoughtless gestures.

First, if what he wears is his "best suit" then he is well miss-matched with the family of the girl.  It is obvious the family (set the girl aside for a moment) is used to more formality.  The dress of both the father and mother, the formal dining, the other young man at the table, all attest to a more traditional approach to life in general.  Either the young man asking doesn't know the family or is a bit rebellious in his choice of attire.  That we don't notice the problem is just a measure of our own Western individualism more than wrong or right.  It may be either but it certainly isn't wise.

Second, he makes no effort to be formal when he makes the request.  Showing up at the front door and asking on the door step might imply a sort of "spur of the moment" thing.  And the fact that he later returns to the front door, to cry through the peep hole only emphasizes his lack of understanding and thoughtfulness.

And, finally, at what is perhaps the rudest thing in the whole video, he "goes ahead and marries her anyway" with the collusion of the mother and daughter, dragging the father into the wedding where the social pressure to "be polite" would be it's greatest.  And when the father walks out they get married....anyway.

As a father let me tell you how I reacted and why.  I saw a young man show up without a thought as to how to PERSUADE the father that he was the one to take the daughter into his life and form a stable and loving family.  Every action of his was self absorbed and focused on his happiness, and to some degree, obviously, the daughters.  But not one iota of thought was given to the marriage and how it might effect her relationship to her family, whom, presumably she also loves.  In other words the young man demonstrates a whole lot of thoughtlessness.

Now the core idea behind rude behavior is exactly that: thoughtlessness.  Rude behaviors are almost always backed by little thought or care about the other person and are usually about expressing some emotion because one feels like expressing it.  I have three daughters in their 20's and none are married.  If some young man shows up at my doorstep telling me he loves my daughter he better have: 1) thought about how I might feel about him from my perspective; 2) thought about the timing and execution of his request and done his best to make it work; 3) thought about the long term stress he may be putting on the relationship between his girlfriend and her family and what changes he is willing to make in his own life to accommodate and maintain her relationship to her family.

Having said that, I don't believe the father was particularly wise either.  If a young man shows up on my door and in the same manner asks for my blessing I'd look a bit past the leather jacket and ask the guy in.  Let me tell you though, the father in the video would have been a lot easier to take than my grilling would have been.  And that's what the father should have done.  It was rude of him to "flat out" deny the young man without trying to get past the appearances.

Later he argues with his daughter and the last things she says is she loves him meaning the young man whose name she uses -- (you have to  read here lips to get this).  That he is arguing with his daughter is not surprising, but if it were me I'd probably have sat her down and upon finding she loved the guy, worked with her to make sure the relationship would last.  This means some time would have to pass and some "hoops" jumped through to make sure that the young man loves here enough to make some sacrifices for her. 

But of course, rudeness is not usually a rational choice.  As a friend of mine is fond of saying, "when emotions rule they seldom rule well."

So what does this tell us of rudeness? 

First, that it's not black and white.  Since it's individuals measuring appropriateness of comments or actions, the situation may be perceived differently and thus, some leeway should be given to all persons when they say or do things that seem to be rude.

Second, rudeness generally correlated with thoughtlessness.  The person speaking or acting is often just not aware of that the actions can be interpreted as rude.  My own personality makes it difficult for me to sense rudeness in my own remarks, but also to hear the rudeness of remarks made to me.  It's a trade off for me as I may more easily give offense but also do not take offense easily even if offense was meant.

Third, it may be that the best thing you can do when confronted by rude behavior is to address the issue directly, but politely.  A private chat with a person in which you reveal to them (assuming the best ...namely that they did not see what they were doing as rude) how their actions or word could be construed as rude is often all that is needed.  I do think this is one thing  good leadership is about and those who ignore such behaviors in their alliances should be faulted for their lack.

Fourth, graciousness is the only true cure to rudeness.  If someone says something you consider rude, and you are unwilling to discuss it with them, be gracious and assume they didn't mean to be rude but are just a bit insensitive to others.  I used to tell my daughters that if they think an insult implied by something somebody said, make them say it plainly by asking if they meant the insult.  If they did and deny it, then they have just undone the insult they attempted.  If they didn't and honest about it, they learn that the form of address they used is dangerous and you keep a friend where you could have assumed an enemy.

Fifth, recognize that what you think was rude, may not have been so.  The measure of rudeness is personal and corporate.  On the personal level it is as likely that the one who feels the statement was rude is wrong as the one who made the statement and thinks it not rude.  When you take it to the more general audience measure, the standards may be clearer, but they are not absolute, and thus, for instance, what might be insensitive to one audience is just humorous to another.

Sixth, rudeness is not the final measure of if something should be said or not.  It is generally rude to interrupt.  But if a person is about to be hit by a truck, interrupting with "get out of the way!" is perfectly appropriate.  Sometimes rudeness is necessary.

Seventh, in the same way, sometimes a highly controversial opinion may be made and sound rude but if the long term benefits of letting the person know of the problem out weigh the discomfort of the person to whom the statement applies, it would be rude to NOT make the statement.  Ultimately, if the statement is beneficial, it's beneficial even if the person to whom it's applied is not made comfortable by it's being made.  We are not responsible for another's reactions but only for avoiding unnecessary pain and suffering.  Sadly, sometimes it is necessary to be rude for the moment to be most polite for the long run.

Finally, let me tell you another story, this one true, in contrast to the one in the video.

I have a friend of mine who has three daughters.  The oldest is a skater and when she was 19 she began to take lessons from an accomplished professional.  She took lessons for about six months and her and her instructor "fell in love." 

Growing up in a very conservative household when he asked her out, she had him ask her fathers' blessing on the "courtship."  At first the father was reluctant but after talking with his daughter and realizing that if it could work it would make her happy, he relented.  But he also  laid down a bunch of conditions.  Notice that he didn't just say "no" but considered his daughter feelings and the situation, and made some stipulations to which the young man and young lady agreed.

For the next two years the young man made the choices needed to insure the father's blessing.  Two years, in the world of dating, is a pretty long time, but in the end when the young man actually asked for the father's blessing on a marriage the father gave it with little reservation.  The young man had proved by his actions that he was thoughtful and concerned about the long term relationship he and his soon to be wife had with her family.  That's politeness to the highest degree.

So in then end, I think, rudeness is usually the result of forgetting to whom you are speaking and/or not being aware of how your words may be received.  And it's also about forgetting that the person doing the speaking may not be aware of how their words are being received.  Both the speaker and the hearer need to be gracious and "consider also the things of others" as they speak.

AJ


 




Replies:
Posted By: Stukahh
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2015 at 20:09
I hate to be rude, but that song is terrible...and so is your post.

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I don't always drink. But when I do, I prefer the blood of my enemies.


Posted By: Duran
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2015 at 20:17
You just seriously described a song, on a RTS game forum. This is the epitome of pointless posting.


Posted By: JodaMyth
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2015 at 01:32
ajqtrz... I honestly didn't make it past the youtube link..tooo long to read. Are you proposing to someone? Shocked  

GOOD LUCK!Clap  

ALSO:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mm7bsXWEG_4 " rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mm7bsXWEG_4


Posted By: abstractdream
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2015 at 02:49
Without having any idea what it is, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say "this song sucks."


Rude enough?


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Bonfyr Verboo


Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2015 at 04:36
The whole concept seems a bit sexist to me.  It's pretty rude for both the young man and the father to think this exchange is in any way relevant.


Posted By: Nikon
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2015 at 04:15
i dont get what you mean.

are you saying the game has something to do with marrying people off?

i read this, and this song came to mind

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LAD6Im6jrA

thats all.


Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2015 at 17:10
gee whiz AJ....totally sexist..and its 2015....why not female instructor?..why not two female parents or two male....wow just rude and how does this have anything to do with a fanasty online strategy game?


Posted By: Gragnog
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2015 at 18:36
Seriously? Just seeing the length of the post made me skip the link and most of the post. Make them shorter and more to the point.


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Kaggen is my human half


Posted By: ajqtrz
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2015 at 19:06
Gragnog, I'm glad you skipped it.  But if you did, why comment at all?  Having admitted to not reading it, what possible relevant response could you have supplied?

Others, I notice that few to no responses were relevant to the topic.  As Rikoo often closes topic that get off base, do try to stick to the subject at hand.

As for the "sexism" etc...comments.  I didn't right the song.  I didn't put in the various characters or tell the story, I only commented on the portrayal as an example of rude behavior.  Please focus on that question and we can have a good discussion on what it means to be rude and how to avoid both being rude and gracious when you perceive rudeness.

Finally, the whole purpose of this thread is to engage in a civil discussion that might decrease friction among players by coming to a fuller understanding of what it means to be rude and what it means to be gracious in the face of rudeness.  I'm sorry I didn't pick a better example, but, seriously, it seems that just about anything except short and rather unimaginative posts seems to get people off on tangents.  So, "focus people" and address the subject of the post if you can.

Do try again, if you will.  Thanks.

AJ


Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2015 at 04:18
I think you would be wise to start over and find a better example.


Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2015 at 05:02
I think he would be wise to start over and find a shorter example.


Posted By: Gragnog
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2015 at 13:54
Originally posted by ajqtrz ajqtrz wrote:

Gragnog, I'm glad you skipped it.  But if you did, why comment at all?  Having admitted to not reading it, what possible relevant response could you have supplied?

AJ


Ok, the title is "Thoughts on Rudeness". I think you are just plain rude for putting such a long and drawn out post expecting us to bother to read it. Next time skip the rudeness and put a shorter more effective post in.


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Kaggen is my human half


Posted By: ajqtrz
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2015 at 19:46
Originally posted by Gragnog Gragnog wrote:

Originally posted by ajqtrz ajqtrz wrote:

Gragnog, I'm glad you skipped it.  But if you did, why comment at all?  Having admitted to not reading it, what possible relevant response could you have supplied?

AJ


Ok, the title is "Thoughts on Rudeness". I think you are just plain rude for putting such a long and drawn out post expecting us to bother to read it. Next time skip the rudeness and put a shorter more effective post in.


And thus you prove some of the ideas you, I think, haven't read, in the original post.  By saying that my post was "long and drawn out" and that I expected people to actually "bother to read it" and then claiming that such a long post and the expectation that people would actually read it, is "rude" you demonstrate for us all how what is "rude" may be "rude" to one and "polite" to another.  In the end, if you think posts should be short or, if long, that nobody should be bothered to read them, then you would see my posts as inappropriate.  But if you think, as I do, that the only time a post is too long is if the person begins to repeat themselves over and over (in a single post as multiple posts sometimes require repetition), AND that anyone actually making a judgement about the content of the post should have read it, then you might consider your original response inappropriate.

I can say that in general society when engaged in formal discussions about a subject you are expected to have listened to or read your opponents arguments if not in their entirety at least enough to demonstrate that you understand what their arguments are.  Still, the forum here is a bit less formal, perhaps.

Finally, I might suggest that if you see a post of mine that appears too long for your taste, remember you don't have to respond but can just leave the thread and find more acceptable banter someplace else.  Just a thought so that you don't have to encounter my "rude" behaviors.

AJ


Posted By: ajqtrz
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2015 at 19:58
Brandmeister,

As you well know many subjects are so multi-faceted that a good discussion of them may take a bit of time and space.  That you grow weary of such lengthy posts may be more a sign of our current move into the cyber world.  Scientist have noted that the younger generations (the "twenty-somethings and below) have a marked and measurable tendency to multi-task and less an ability to stick to a task with full concentration for as long.  Since critical thinking is a task that, if done well, needs full concentration, it may be that many of this generation find the posts too long because they are not used to speaking in anything longer than 140 characters, or receiving information in larger and more complex blocks like paragraphs and even pages.  There is, as described in a number of places, a shortening of communication acts, both in the number of words, the spelling, and the duration of the exchange, and thus, it is claimed, a shortening in the ability to concentrate on a single task which is what is needed for true creativity and critical thought.  At least the reports I heard and read on the subject this last week have consistently stated this.

So if you are under thirty I wouldn't be surprised at your reluctance to encounter long and complex posts.  Shorter examples may exist but they may also not be as complex as might be needed.  I might suggest though, since you did suggest it, that if you could come up with something that would be a nice contribution.

AJ


Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2015 at 20:28
I am 40. As evidenced by many of my posts on this forum, I have no reluctance to produce or peruse long and complex articles. However, as a technical professional, I value the concise expression of ideas. It is the result of placing a high value on the time of others. It is also a recognition of the limitations of a global environment where English is often a second language.

In my experience, when people write rambling Internet posts, their intention is usually a monologue and not a dialogue. It is a poor communicator indeed who fails to efficiently reach a clear point with his audience, and then blames them for poor listening skills.


Posted By: ajqtrz
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2015 at 21:20
Originally posted by Brandmeister Brandmeister wrote:

I am 40. As evidenced by many of my posts on this forum, I have no reluctance to produce or peruse long and complex articles. However, as a technical professional, I value the concise expression of ideas. It is the result of placing a high value on the time of others. It is also a recognition of the limitations of a global environment where English is often a second language.

In my experience, when people write rambling Internet posts, their intention is usually a monologue and not a dialogue. It is a poor communicator indeed who fails to efficiently reach a clear point with his audience, and then blames them for poor listening skills.


The characterization of some posts as "rambling" is interesting as you aren't really arguing with the length of the post, but the lack of editing.  To that I would ask, what part of my post would you have edited out or made more concise? 

In addition, it is quite possible that when people write "rambling Internet posts" it may be that they are doing some "thinking out loud" rather than intending to create a monologue, as you seem to think.  Should dialog only include fully edited and polished prose or is it possible to actually think as one writes? 

One of the hallmarks of our current rhetorical stance in the west is the "casualness" of our communications in comparison to those of the last few centuries.  Our language is more free flowing and our forms of grammar (or lack thereof) more varied.  I would suggest that they conciseness of your technical writing is a proper response to what you are supposed to write and it's a very good skill to possess (I've authored over 20 technical articles myself and understand the necessity of clarity, brevity and conciseness).  But this is a forum and less formal and I do think, perhaps, a little more flexible as far as length and style are concerned.

Thus, while I concur that editing is always a good thing, too much editing removes the personality from the writing, something a technical paper usually strives to do, but which in a forum like this, may only make what is more colorful, more grey and uninteresting/unreadable.

Finally, suggesting something does not make it so.  If I suggest that you have failed in some aspect of correspondence I am leaving it to the reader to determine it for themselves.  Thus, you suggest (by implication) my posts are "rambling."  I leave it to the reader to determine the degree of rambling I do, and if it characterizes what you say it characterizes.  But of course, to do that they would have to read the posts, wouldn't they?

Still, I thank you for your thoughts.  Do remember though, that whatever you think somebody is intending to do, unless they have actually stated that the goal is what they intended, there might be other reasons of which you lack awareness.  Motives are such difficult things to ascertain as they are often mixed and sometimes hidden as well.

AJ


Posted By: Stonerman
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2015 at 21:28
Originally posted by ajqtrz ajqtrz wrote:


So if you are under thirty I wouldn't be surprised at your reluctance to encounter long and complex posts.  Shorter examples may exist but they may also not be as complex as might be needed.  I might suggest though, since you did suggest it, that if you could come up with something that would be a nice contribution.

AJ

so is this your version of graciousness? instead of re-working your first post or even just making a quick summary (which would remedy everyones problem here) you'd rather make convoluted insults to go with these convoluted posts?

if you are actually serious about using this topic for a "civil" discussion how about not making it a such a chore just to understand what you want to talk about. 


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Posted By: ajqtrz
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2015 at 21:44
Originally posted by Stonerman Stonerman wrote:

Originally posted by ajqtrz ajqtrz wrote:


So if you are under thirty I wouldn't be surprised at your reluctance to encounter long and complex posts.  Shorter examples may exist but they may also not be as complex as might be needed.  I might suggest though, since you did suggest it, that if you could come up with something that would be a nice contribution.

AJ

so is this your version of graciousness? instead of re-working your first post or even just making a quick summary (which would remedy everyones problem here) you'd rather make convoluted insults to go with these convoluted posts?

if you are actually serious about using this topic for a "civil" discussion how about not making it a such a chore just to understand what you want to talk about. 


I apologize if you felt insulted by the references to current research on discussion and the Internet.  I do see how you might have been offended, and perhaps it was unwise of me to quote the research.  If I had it to do over I'd have left that out.  Sorry.

AJ


Posted By: Rosie Blackeye
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2015 at 21:51
Let me introduce some sort of scale into this discussion. A rambling piece of text is one that has a low signal to noise ratio, and lacks in structure and logic. Considering these three parameters the scale of rambling could look something like this:

1 Python list comprehension
2 Haiku
3 Limerick
4 Robert Sheckley short story
5 Tolstoy novel
6 James Joyce novel
7 Average blog post
8 Average AJ post
9 Emotional comment on a political topic
10 Letter from an asylum inmate


Posted By: Stonerman
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2015 at 22:20
im not offended in any way by your referencing research, just found the intent behind it being used here left me wanting to comment my thoughts.

 i am though, still baffled as to why you chose to resist heeding the complaints, i mean their hasnt been a single reply yet to the actual topic at hand, you cant tell me with all that time you put into writing that original post, you cant spare alittle more and condense it down to a summarized version that still gets your point across, or atleast interests us enough to want to read the full version


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Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2015 at 23:40
I am sorry AJ....using an example that is old fashion sexist behavior is just insulting and your not saying sorry for using it is just rude and the whole topic shouldn't be included in a forum on a fanasty strategy game...you are totally wrong on this one but my guess is rikoo enjoys torturing us with your rambling logic...watches the target created on her back


Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2015 at 23:55
My wife made it clear that part of the process of getting married was asking her father for his "permission".  It was, perhaps, a foregone conclusion what the answer would be but for her and her father and I it was a nice tradition, considered politeness on my behalf and a part of our bond.

So, Twi and Rill, have a quick thought before you start labeling something so negatively based on your own jaded viewpoint.


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"This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM

"a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill


Posted By: Jax
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2015 at 00:21
Its just a game..
If someone just wrote an igm to me with just a bunch of curses, I'd probably respond with a lol. That's probably not for everyone though...

P.S I didn't really read anything you wrote except for the name of the topic; is that considered rude?


Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2015 at 03:44
Rosie:  Don't forget Faulkner.  He's what I usually measure that sort of thing against.


Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2015 at 04:09
killer did you ask her mother too or because she was a female didn't she count...its 2015...we don't twist the hens heads off any more...sexism is sexism no matter if its tradition or not and no matter if its past present or future and this whole forum topic is a joke because it has nothing to do with the game


Posted By: Arian
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2015 at 06:41
What I find "Rude" is AJQTRZ's apparent decision some time back that the entire game and forum audience needed educating in manners or morals and that he was the one to do it.
We aren't in your University now AJ and you aren't in a lecture hall. If I wanted to read lectures on group dynamics or morals I wouldn't come to an in-game forum to find them.
The assumption that because we don't necessarily agree with your every 'pearl of wisdom' just means we don't agree, not that we have less manners or less morals - we are not lesser people because we don't choose to engage in endless boring debates about it. Every post you make is designed to route the conversation into you trying to claim some sort of moral or intellectual superiority over the rest of us. Please don't be so presumptuous, it's ill mannered of you and extremely tedious.

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'Do you want ice with that?'


Posted By: Gragnog
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2015 at 08:25
Originally posted by Arian Arian wrote:

What I find "Rude" is AJQTRZ's apparent decision some time back that the entire game and forum audience needed educating in manners or morals and that he was the one to do it.
We aren't in your University now AJ and you aren't in a lecture hall. If I wanted to read lectures on group dynamics or morals I wouldn't come to an in-game forum to find them.
The assumption that because we don't necessarily agree with your every 'pearl of wisdom' just means we don't agree, not that we have less manners or less morals - we are not lesser people because we don't choose to engage in endless boring debates about it. Every post you make is designed to route the conversation into you trying to claim some sort of moral or intellectual superiority over the rest of us. Please don't be so presumptuous, it's ill mannered of you and extremely tedious.


Now this was short and to the point. Now do you get the idea AJ?


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Kaggen is my human half


Posted By: jcx
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2015 at 11:09
shall I say - Do not FEED the troll?




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Disclaimer: The above is jcx|orcboy's personal opinion and is not the opinion or policy of Harmless? [H?] or of the little green men that have been following him all day.

jcx in H? | orcboy in H?


Posted By: Nightwalker
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2015 at 01:30
Personally, I think the whole problem here is that the guy in the video consistently says "why you have to be so roux"... I don't know why anyone would give permission when the potential son in law would call him a French sauce...

Tradition is tradition... same as the father walking the bride down the aisle....The preacher asks "who gives the woman to be married" ....

If you think that is sexist, just don't do choose to partake in that time honored tradition. Don't be a feminazi... gotta love it




Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2015 at 11:42
again...this is a forum for a fanasty strategy game..my comments are meant for the gm and the devs....why are these topics being allowed? if we want to chat about offensive game material that could be considered disrespectful maybe we should chat about the default given attire of the female elf...should this be considered rude? I mean its 2015 its not the 1990s or is portraying female playing avatars in this matter game tradition?


Posted By: Angrim
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2015 at 12:12
Originally posted by twilights twilights wrote:

again...this is a forum for a fanasty strategy game..my comments are meant for the gm and the devs....why are these topics being allowed? if we want to chat about offensive game material that could be considered disrespectful maybe we should chat about the default given attire of the female elf...should this be considered rude? I mean its 2015 its not the 1990s or is portraying female playing avatars in this matter game tradition?
who are you, and what have you done with the original twilights? she revelled in that sort of thing and could never have gotten through that thought without a comment about how old all the other players are.


Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2015 at 15:22
quit outting me and figure out the purpose of the change about..winks...remember the forums are part of the game and should be used as such..everything I do is game play and I suspect that ajs topics are the same and come to think of it you just one upped me in game play....grins


Posted By: Sun Tzu
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2015 at 18:33
as difficult as it may be to not respond to ignorant nonsense, I believe it is time for Mr. AJ to be ignored.  He has provided nothing substantive to the game of Illyriad other than making it a less fun game.
Please dont give him any undue credit by indulging him in the forums.  It only gives him a hard on to post more nonsense.


Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2015 at 05:19
Sun, I think your response is uncalled for.  While I don't agree with aj about all matters, he has the courage to raise questions.  If you don't want to respond, then don't; if you don't even want to read his posts, then don't -- but there's no need for personal attacks.


Posted By: Angrim
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2015 at 12:07
Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

Sun, I think your response is uncalled for.  While I don't agree with aj about all matters, he has the courage to raise questions.  If you don't want to respond, then don't; if you don't even want to read his posts, then don't -- but there's no need for personal attacks.
hmmm. i took Sun's post as the moral equivalent of "if you find a player's contribution is not enhancing your illy experience..."


Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2015 at 13:12
takes off her halo...I totally support rills statement and would also like to respond to the sexist statement of suns......just cause AJ is an older man and has choose to not use drugs to enhance his body functions and think its just rude to him to deny him an alternative means to achieve this body response.......sorry Rikoo I just couldn't resist.....waits for the boot....cyas but leaves in laughter


Posted By: Sun Tzu
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2015 at 17:26
Last post I will ever make in this pit of self-righteous, pretentious "veterans" known as the Illyriad Forums: I will play my game.  You play yours.  and the Developers have a lot to fix.  Good luck.  



Posted By: ajqtrz
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2015 at 22:56
For Twi, whom I respect greatly:

The description of Caravanserai : "A place to just chat about whatever takes your fancy, whether it's about Illyriad or not."

Maybe that's why they haven't reigned in my forum production.  Besides, if the forum is part of the game (I think of it more as a part of the playground where people sit and discuss things), you have to admit that at least it's been a bit livelier over the last couple months.  LOL

That the subjects I put my posts on take my fancy is just that.  I like challenging people's thoughts on ethics, morals, philosophy etc...

For others as well, most of whom have overall treated me with a reasonable amount of respect, (even if, as is only human, we all have slipped from time to time).

And it is in fact, true that no one has to read my posts.  Of course if I were a really big player I could just tell everybody they had to do so or I would start razing their cities.....would that be part of "aggressive game play?"  LOL  (I'm just having fun here folks).

And it is also a fact that my posts are longer than most...sometimes a lot longer.  I generally don't shorten them because they do take time and this is an informal forum where some leeway is allowed in style.  I will think about this and consider it.  However, it does appear to me that a good deal of the complaints are from those who consistently say they haven't read my posts...so I'm not sure if the extra effort will garner more readers (and more informed discussion) or not.

In any case, it's obvious to me that the style of writing in the forum is rather loose and much less restricted as is evident by the number of short and pointed barbs directed at the author rather than the actual subject of the thread.  One does wonder how a person can both claim to have not read the thread and still consider that they have an intellectually honest and thoughtful response.  At least I wonder.  But maybe stating that is being too rude.  Do forgive me as I ramble a bit.....

As for the example used to start the post, I do admit I did not give it a lot of thought as I too come from a tradition where asking the father for his blessing is considered a polite formality.   Maybe I should as I do have three unmarried daughters in their twenties.  To tell the truth I do sort of expect their boyfriends, when the time comes, to approach me and have some kind of conversation about their desire to marry my daughter.  I wonder how I might feel if they skip the procedure.  I really don't know, but if it happens I'll be sure to let you know.

But back to the subject at hand. 

A couple of personal experiences.

I suffer from a leg condition which makes it advantageous for me to have my feet up on a coffee table.  I have to constantly remind myself that showing the bottoms of you shoes in some cultures is considered rude because I have quite a few friends from that part of the world.   So when I have guests that may be from those cultures I try to keep my feet flat on the ground.  The interesting this is that some of my closer friends from that part of the world are quite gracious when I forget, and I suspect that is why we get along so well.  Graciousness is an art I've never mastered but I do keep trying. 

Another example was when I was a graduate student I fell into the company of a group of Nigerian students, all of whom were about the same age.  One day I was speaking to Akeem and asked him is age.  He laughed my question off.  A few days later I repeated my question.  He changed the subject.  Another friend from that part of the world was there and took me aside to inform me that that in some parts of Nigeria you don't ask the age of your friends because as long as you don't know their age you don't have do obeisance  (bow down) when you enter the room if you are older.  So friends, out of politeness, don't ask their friends their ages.  In fact, it is a sign of great honor for a friend to volunteer his or her age as it shows great respect.  Needless to say I never asked again.

Maybe you can share some of your experiences with cross cultural behaviors and we can all be better prepared to discuss what is rude and what is not.

AJ


Posted By: Jax
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2015 at 23:48
Originally posted by ajqtrz ajqtrz wrote:



Maybe you can share some of your experiences with cross cultural behaviors and we can all be better prepared to discuss what is rude and what is not.

AJ

Well, culturally speaking, I live in Queens in nyc. One of the most diverse places in the world. I think that can speak for itself. Otherwise, I'd be writing pages like ya' AJ Tongue 


Posted By: ajqtrz
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2015 at 21:39
Jax, all the more reason to share!  The benefits are that we get your insights and you get much better at typing...LOL.

AJ


Posted By: Jax
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2015 at 07:05
Originally posted by ajqtrz ajqtrz wrote:

Jax, all the more reason to share!  The benefits are that we get your insights and you get much better at typing...LOL.

AJ

I would Aj, I just don't like typing a lot. I usually space out when I'm on an electronic anyways...oh dratz its already 2am!  



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