30JUL15 - 1WK NOTICE: NPC AI & DIPLO CHANGE
Printed From: Illyriad
Category: News & Announcements
Forum Name: News & Announcements
Forum Description: Changes, patch release dates, server launch dates, downtime notifications etc.
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=6531
Printed Date: 17 Apr 2022 at 09:40
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Topic: 30JUL15 - 1WK NOTICE: NPC AI & DIPLO CHANGE
Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Subject: 30JUL15 - 1WK NOTICE: NPC AI & DIPLO CHANGE
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2015 at 22:32
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Hi all, Giving one week's notice of the following changes to things! CONCURRENT DIPLOMATIC MISSIONS We're reducing the number of concurrent missions any one town can have running at the same time. Starting at 00:00:01 Friday the 7th of August, each town will only be able to support a concurrent number of diplomatic missions equal to the combined level of the Consulate and Foreign Office(s) in that town. So, if your town has a L20 Consulate, a L20 Foreign Office, and a 2nd L10 Foreign Office, that town will have a maximum of 50 concurrent diplomatic missions at any one time. Any missions (over and above the number supported by your town) currently in progress at the changeover time will complete as usual; you just won't be able to send new missions until mission slots (equal to your combined levels of Consulate and Foreign Office) become available. At the same time we will also be introducing an enforced 5-second pause between a particular town sending out a diplomatic mission. NPC AGGRESSIVE AI Also commencing at 00:00:01 Friday the 7th, those NPC Factions with the highest level of 'pure hatred' (ie standings to player races at -90 or worse), a list comprising:
... will begin to attack player encampments - both gatherers and player armies - that are out-and-about occupying squares on the map. In terms of the radius around their hubs in which these NPCs may attack, you should assume that if you currently find these NPC groups moving through your neighbourhood, then they're aware of you and are not happy about it, and may start attacking in a week's time. In terms of the size of the attacking force that these NPCs may use, it's going to be the same min/max groupings that have been patrolling the areas so far. NPCs will not currently attack player cities, but it should be assumed that this is not far around the corner. It should also be assumed that - once we've ironed out any bugs that may arise from this kind of aggressive NPC interaction - we will begin introducing aggressive AI behaviour to other factions with negative default standings to player racial groupings, gradually increasing from -90 up to the -50 unprovoked attack threshold. You can see your standing with any faction on http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/Alliance/Faction" rel="nofollow - the faction page in game. Enjoy! SC |
Replies:
Posted By: Solanar
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2015 at 22:37
| Epic, so glad this is finally beginning |
Posted By: ubluntu
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2015 at 22:50
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As we turn on different parts of the AI we'll let you know; and we'll let you know well in advance before we enable the longer-term Faction Standing consequences of the nature of your engagements with factions.
Does this mean you will be turning on Faction Standing?
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Posted By: Belegar Ironhammer
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2015 at 22:55
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Horribly disappointed at the weak diplo change. At least there is some progress on the factions.
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Posted By: Dungshoveleux
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2015 at 22:59
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if a diplo unit disappears into Audrey, does it "complete" when it disappears? if a diplo unit is corrupted at the temples, does it "complete" when it gets corrupted or does it complete when it arrives corrupted at the town it came from? the future supply of tentacles just got reduced - my tentacle stocks just got worth more!
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Posted By: Count Rupert
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2015 at 23:04
I think it completes when it no longer shows on your diplo mission page which would mean when it disappears or becomes corrupted.
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Dungshoveleux wrote:Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2015 at 23:09
Not immediately, as the initial round of 'pure hatred' Factions can't be influenced in their hatred. But yes, as we get to factions that can be influenced by other player actions, alterable faction standing mechanisms will come online.
I'm not sure what you were expecting us to change, or why, that makes this change 'weak'!? :) The main reason for this change is to smooth over occasional server spikes, where multiple incoming diplo attacks of a single unit at a time were occupying an unnecessarily high amount of resources, what with retrieving the attacking units from the queue, retreiving the defending units from the town, calculating the results at multiple levels with multiple effects (eg prestige, consulate effects etc), generating outcomes, preparing the communications, informing both parties by notifications and ingame mail, deleting any killed or lost units from the system, re-queuing the return movement of the diplomats, archiving the outcomes etc... It's quite a lot to do - and doing it multiple times per second for those of you with serious carpal tunnel abilities to send co-ordinated diplomatic attacks over a period of (sometimes) minutes makes the system a little unhappy every so often, with the potential for knock-on effects onto other modules of the code. If you choose to build enough Foreign Offices, you can still send great waves of diplomatic units, but with enough spacing between them for the system to recapture its breath! If there's a 'stronger' diplo change we could have made that would have dealt with another issue that you have in mind, do let us know in the suggestions forum what the problem is, and what your proposed solution would be. Best, SC
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Posted By: Bobtron
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2015 at 23:44
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finally! thanks devs Will the faction 'The Lost Clans' attack dwarves? Their standing with dwarves only at -80, not enough for pure hatred. ------------- I support the Undying Flame! |
Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2015 at 00:01
Not initially, as we're only looking at -90 or below, but when we begin raising the aggression threshold (after working out any kinks in the system that show themselves), keep the following overall standing thresholds in mind:
So -80 to Dwarves won't initially cause them to attack Dwarves, but will when we raise the aggression threshold to -80 or below, then whilst they won't try to destroy you at any cost, they will actively seek out and try to destroy cities within a certain radius of a faction hub. We'll put a further announcement in the forum when we raise the current aggression threshold, and also when we turn on aspects such as attacking cities (rather than just attacking gatherers and occupying armies). But right now, it's -90 or lower only. Regards, SC |
Posted By: Berde
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2015 at 01:43
| Anyone have a rough estimate of just how long the Human Statue Quest will now take for someone doing it from a newer city in Broken Lands? Some of the statues take 6 days to get to from, say, Chulbran. Could this extend the time needed to complete this quest into the range of multiple weeks, or even a month for someone who doesn't have a level 20 Consulate? |
Posted By: Myr
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2015 at 02:12
| The AI starting to 'wake up' on the heels of a very entertaining war is making for an interesting summer in Illy. I'm off to check my troop ques! |
Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2015 at 03:09
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Just eliminating the partial successes of scouts probably would have killed the tendency to send multiple diplomatic missions to the same target. (I tested for myself recently to confirm that scout spam no longer results in even partial success with less than 100 units, which it did for a time even after the alteration of the thresholds for random success/failure.) It is sort of hard to reconcile this change with the existence of buildings like scouts lookout, since it seems like this change will reinforce a tendency to have a medium group of scouts in many cities rather than a large group of scouts in a single city. Maybe the scouts lookout buildings should also increase the number of diplomatic missions that can be abroad? I don't see it as a big negative change, but I anticipate that at some point in the future I am going to forget that it exists and have a major facepalm moment. Great news on the NPC aggressive AI! I look forward to hearing from people how this is working.
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Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2015 at 03:11
| Just to confirm my understanding, diplomatic units that are attached to armies do not count in the total number of diplomatic missions, right? Since they are by definition on military missions? |
Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2015 at 03:34
Correct. Diplomats attached to armies count as military units whilst in a division. Regards, SC
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Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2015 at 03:36
| Are we able to influence our faction standing yet? |
Posted By: ubluntu
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2015 at 04:05
http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/30jul15-1wk-notice-npc-ai-diplo-change_topic6531_post88558.html#88558" rel="nofollow - http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/30jul15-1wk-notice-npc-ai-diplo-change_topic6531_post88558.html#88558 |
Posted By: demdigs
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2015 at 06:25
| Will faction quests be available once faction fully become available? |
Posted By: Mr Damage
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2015 at 08:52
| Great news |
Posted By: Endrok
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2015 at 11:05
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This first step in changing the Faction AI behaviour is very welcome... Apart from " player encampments" will they also start attacking towns close to their hubs or will they be safe for now ? ########### EDIT ############## OK read the original post properly this time and it clearly says cities are safe  #############################
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Posted By: Sheza
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2015 at 17:19
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Will they steal from us ? sharpens swords..... ------------- If Horses don't go to Heaven when they die. then I want to go where they go. |
Posted By: Jax
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2015 at 22:06
| Happy to see updates :D only feels like a few months since I first started |
Posted By: jordigui
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2015 at 23:30
Will faction armies drop anything when killed (e.g., hides, swords, money, crafted items)? 
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Posted By: Alcie
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2015 at 05:06
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This will make the popular newbie statue quest mystery MUCH more frustrating and long to finish. What (for new players in broken lands) might already have taken a couple weeks now might be forced into months. Honestly this diplo change just seems like a bad idea to me in that it reduces the non-war activities people can do. A limit is fine, but a limit low enough that it seriously hampers one of the basic and very fun early activities for new players seems extremely bad. Investigating many other mysteries often involves sending dozens or more of scout groups out for weeks on end as well. It takes a lot of time and organization if I want to scout a 1,000 square area across the map from me for some mystery related thing. What might have taken a lot of organization over months has with this change pushed the timing into potentially years plus (again) made it much harder for small players to do these types of fun peaceful activities. The diplo change also makes it very hard to get the tentacles needed for the crafting quest. The average large 10 city account (most people don't have many foreign offices since they are small and expensive) will still be able to send enough diplo groups to at least get 10 tentacles. A small player might only get 1 or 2 or none with this limit. Tentacles used to be a fun thing even very small players could try to get on the rare occasion Audrey wakes. If sending too many scout groups kills the server that could easily be fixed by having drop rate be based on how large groups are rather than number of groups sent (e.g. send a group of 5,000 rather than 500 groups of 1). Sorry to be negative. I am excited about the npc change, but I feel like the diplo change is very negative without any obvious positives. I have nothing against the 5 second pause if it is needed--that might be frustrating occasionally but it sounds like a acceptable minor annoyance if the devs think it is needed for the server stability. Fundamentally the problem with the server spiking with tons of diplos is because people are having FUN using tons of diplos. Fixing this server issue by eliminating those ways to have fun seems like a bad idea all around to me. Ways to get around it being a problem (such as the 5 second pause) without fundamentally limiting our activities seems like a much better option--why not extend the pause idea and say (for example) only x many diplo groups can be sent out 'per hour'. That way if you have a many week project for many diplos you could work on it some every day rather than waiting 3 weeks in-between sending one group out and the next. Hey, the server is laggy because people are playing! I know, let's make it so people can't play, that will fix it. |
Posted By: demdigs
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2015 at 11:15
| Will the factions in the broken lands get the inter-alliance standings or not? the ones where they are friends with or enemies with. |
Posted By: TheBillPN
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2015 at 13:47
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With the addition of Foment Unrest earlier in the year, will factions be able to attack and remove player sovereignty, just like warring alliances? |
Posted By: Dungshoveleux
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2015 at 20:37
| since the npc's don't have their own cities, the military have to come from faction hubs. in the event that say, a confederation of alliances decided to wipe the tower or any other faction of the face of the map, there is no way to do this. also, there is no way for an alliance or a player to "join" an npc faction. thus there seems to be some inconsistency in the way npc's work and the way players work. The major issue or me is that factions don't have npc towns, nor can players of alliances create their own faction and hence faction hub. more thought needs to be given towards integrating player and npc relations so that they function using the same mechanisms. the last issue that i have is related to soverignty and to gameplay. there is no proper link between factions, alliances and town territory or soveriegnty. because there is no built in bias towards alliances clumping into areas, this tends to lead to a very geographically diverse spread of cities. there should be a mechanism to encourage territorial integrity and a bias against spreading out all over. in summary i think that this is a big subject and it needs some serious thought if the game is to progress. |
Posted By: mjc2
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2015 at 20:56
| dung, i would have to disagree with you on the mechanics being the same. if they do change the mechanic to allow players to destroy/build hubs then it could be argued that the Devs are indirectly playing the game through the factions and that is one thing that i never want to see. basically i see factions as an underlying part of the environment on where you place your city, if you dont look around to see what factions are nearby and they destroy your city that is on you and not the game all that info is readily available to anyone who reads up on the factions or looks at the map. |
Posted By: Alcie
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2015 at 01:23
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Simple question: what does alliance faction standing actually do? Once -80 standing factions start attacking there will be players who have -70 personal standing with that faction even though their alliance may have -85. It sounds like those players won't be attacked--does the very bad alliance standing do anything to affect them personally? |
Posted By: Dungshoveleux
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2015 at 09:44
| mjc2: the devs WILL be playing the game once factions go live! The very fact that factions can now attack players is just the beginning. so unfortunately (for you) I do see the AI playing the game (within certain parameters) |
Posted By: Dungshoveleux
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2015 at 09:47
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Alcie: As I understand it, alliance standing has an effect on your base personal standing. Your actual personal standing is the combined effect of the alliance and your personal actions. I think it is your personal standing that determines whether or not you get attacked by a faction. Does that seem about right? I expect the devs will clarify.
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Posted By: Marty
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2015 at 09:53
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Having recently listened to some of the recorded livestreams, one of which was on the release of the Broken Lands, it seems to me that this might be another occasion on which a live chat with GMs Stormcrow, Thundercat and Cerberus on the mechanics and future plans may be very informative? Marty
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Posted By: mjc2
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2015 at 10:09
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dung, i dont consider it playing unless they have control over what the units do. based on my understanding they will have control over the parameters for when the factions will attack and how many troops they send but they will not be able to adjust those parameters once they are set(in fact the general parameters are already posted and have been since before BL opened up for settlement only the specifics in code needed to be worked out) only the players will be able to by doing quests or whatever to change faction standings. with that said the factions will all be reactive and not active therefore the devs are not playing since they cannot make any active decisions. based on what you are saying it could be construed that the Devs have been playing for years since there are NPCs for us to attack. but all NPC movements are based on computer coding and there is no actual human controlling the actions of the individual NPCs we all hunt.
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Posted By: Curmudgeon
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2015 at 11:49
That is like saying that Rikoo controls mammoths. If that were true (and I'm sure he loves the idea) a few of us would have been trampled on several times by now. |
Posted By: Dungshoveleux
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2015 at 13:34
| ??? but why is having npc towns and factions controlled by a computer considered to be "playing" and yet the current state of factions and faction miltary ccontrolled by AI's considered not to be playing? |
Posted By: Dungshoveleux
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2015 at 13:47
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if they do change the mechanic to allow players to destroy/build hubs then it could be argued that the Devs are indirectly playing the game through the factions and that is one thing that i never want to see. I don't see the logic here! allowing an alliance or group of alliances to form a faction and build hubs or destroy other faction hubs is surely a 100% player decision and has nothing at all to do with the devs. allowing a player to join an AI faction is a player decision. What I am advocating is to allow the AI's to control both AI factions and AI towns which belong to the faction. it ought to be possible for players to join an AI faction. since you agree that AI actions are not the devs playing the game, how can player actions be deemed to be the devs playing the game? personally, I would also like to see a link between factions and the king. In that the factions determine who the king is and that a player could potentially occupy this position.
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Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2015 at 13:50
| the game has never been pure sandbox and Dev involvement in the game is desperately needed to keep it advancing and not fade away....thanks for releasing partially done factions...looks like a game changer and if needed I have no problem with constant Dev or gm control of them...hint hint...code can only do so much |
Posted By: Dungshoveleux
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2015 at 13:50
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but the devs do control the behaviour of the mammoths! the devs control the behaviour of factions! so, they may not be controlling specific actions, but they are controlling the parameters by which their AI's play the game. thus they ARE indirectly playing part of the game already. QED.
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Posted By: Dungshoveleux
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2015 at 13:51
| as an aside, how do you know that some of the players aren't somehow AI's? |
Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2015 at 16:32
| Dung, by that reasoning, any online game with an interactive PvE component is being played by the developers. |
Posted By: Balrek
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2015 at 17:12
Woo-Hoo Illy's first conspiracy theory! I believe that I may in fact be an AI component created by the Devs and that my programming prevents me from finding out the truth  ------------- "Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt." |
Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2015 at 20:55
I can neither confirm nor deny this. --Robotic Illyriad Learning Library (RILL)
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Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2015 at 05:05
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This change and the rationale for it (the diplomatic change anyway) bring up an awkward question. I am probably not the right person to ask this question, since my understanding of how computers work is based on programming my Atari in Basic when I was 9. As I recall, I was able to change the colour of the cursor, but that was about the extent of my coding achievement. Nevertheless, I think someone needs to say this. We have seen repeatedly that there are significant issues with server load when there are many concurrent actions, such as very large battles or large numbers of diplomats being sent simultaneously. While changes such as the one described in this post can head off the problem by limiting the frequency that such spikes in server load occur, this raises a question of scalability. That is, is there an inefficiency in the code or a lack of processing power (or both) that is at the root of this problem? And if so, is this problem likely to be correctable? Either by throwing more processing power at it or by making the code more efficient? And if not, what does this mean for the future of Illy and the ability to, for example, have large-scale tournaments that place large loads on the server in short periods of time? Or to add substantially more players? GM Stormcrow has made references to the contributions of Age of Ascent to Illyriad -- are the there solutions being developed for AoA that may be applicable to Illy? I'm not complaining about the implementation of the change described here -- it doesn't appear that it will have a substantial negative impact. But the underlying reason the change is needed seems like it is going to be a continuing problem, and I'm interested in what the developers are doing to address it.
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Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2015 at 08:21
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There are architectural considerations to actions like launching units. Regardless of how efficiently you code the system, it will always require something to track all those individual units moving on the map. I bet there is a single situation that causes the huge spike--Audrey beating. I had 2000 scouts ready in every city, to be sent one at a time. Lots of other people did the same thing. Comparing that to tournaments is apples and oranges. Sure, the army sizes are bigger, but size is just a single number attached to an object. You can only launch 5 armies from each city, not 2000+. To put that in perspective, I alone launched 3000 cities worth of armies the last time Audrey woke up. You can build the servers to handle spikes like that, but it isn't cost effective for a 1% case that's 1000x bigger than your typical volume. This solution is just better. |
Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2015 at 04:12
| I was not referring to the sizes of individual armies but to the number of players, cities and armies involved in large wars and tournaments. Although they may not reach quite the number of missions sent to Audrey, large battles in wars and tournaments have caused server slowdowns in the past. This is the background for my question. |
Posted By: Dungshoveleux
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2015 at 09:58
| When players understood the way to play audrey was to spam her, the devs had to turn off part of the moving units display elements around audrey as the congestion was simply epic! It isn't the sending of the units that caused the problem, it's what happened when they converged on the temples, as the missions had to be converted into attacks on the sending city. I reckon 50+ people each sending 2,000+ attacks = 100,000 attacks. An attack takes around 2-3 seconds to send, but this slows dramatically once your active missions creeps above 1,000. Then when they all reach the other end... |
Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2015 at 17:11
| If that's truly the only problem, then it is a poor idea to require sending 2000 scout missions to Audrey to get tentacles. You're right, limiting diplomat dispatch to 5 second intervals will really cut down on how many tentacles people can generate in the future. Glad I got my set when I did. |
Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2015 at 21:21
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With the mission count changes if you choose to dedicate a town to diplomacy and build a consulate and 22 foreign offices in one city you could still have 460 theft, sabotage, assassination or scouting missions in progress from one town. Though you would need to make that choice, rather than every town being able to deploy that many missions with no trade off. Also it may place your town under greater suspicion as the source if players trace events like this back to your area:  |
Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2015 at 23:02
| with this change is there a possibility of resetting the scores in dip ranking? also would love a ranking score with just faction attack and defense scores! Ranking can be used for constant tournament play but the system needs tweaking so it is played fairly |
Posted By: Alcie
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2015 at 23:58
One notes that would require over 35,000 stone an hour and with that epic number of foreign offices the city could snag a huge 23 tentacles when Audrey is beating--about what is needed for the quest--unless you are a non-orc of course because orc tentacles are much rarer and worth more. There is also now an interesting trade-off between being able to hire diplomats and being able to use them since both foreign offices and the buildings which allow diplomats to be cheaper both require res per hour. There are many trade-offs in this game and most are interesting, but this seems like a pretty darn stupid one. In addition, I still go back to my original point that if Audrey (or perhaps other extreme scouting behavior though Audrey seems like a definite outlier) is the problem, there should be a fix better than making it so that the statue quest now takes new players months to finish. I can't imagine that a city with a level 10 consulate sending 26 spies out in various directions really destroys the server all that much...if it does, I agree with Rill that it sounds like there are much deeper problems. |
Posted By: demdigs
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2015 at 19:29
| Well tonight is the big night, I am so excited, I just can't hide it, and of course let's get ready to rumble (que's the music) |
Posted By: Dungshoveleux
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2015 at 21:51
| it will be interesting to see if faction troops have come from the hubs, or whether they can attack from encampments. |
Posted By: Stukahh
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2015 at 04:33
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Can we get any sort of confirmation from the Illyriad devs that the -90 AI Factions are live? They appear to exhibit the same behaviours as they always have. ------------- I don't always drink. But when I do, I prefer the blood of my enemies. |
Posted By: Marty
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2015 at 05:47
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I can report that the Diplo changes both came into effect, I had warning messages that I had tried to send less than 5 seconds apart, and that I had tried to send more missions than my consulate level. M
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Posted By: Bimoda
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2015 at 16:11
Watches as <System> sends a Cornucopia of -90s at Stukahh for confirmation. ;-)
------------- Bimoda - Dragon Fairy: Illyria Fairy Nation [FAIRY] |
Posted By: Endrok
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2015 at 13:24
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My alt is camped near The Tower one of my army camps got this message .... ========================================
======================================== This is an army that arrived on the spot AFTER the Faction behaviour change. So I'm guessing it's not working as expected yet. This message came just over 2hrs after my troops landed killing a Tower army (153 Shadow Mages) .... initially I got all carried away thinking they had attacked me  The sq was empty when I sent them, but they obviously arrived before I got there ... so I was the attacker. Endrok/Erik |
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Posted By: jordigui
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2015 at 17:14
| Did the faction armies drop anything? |
Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2015 at 18:16
Thanks for letting me know; I'm looking into it. We put many levels of security into faction behaviours so that they didn't inadvertently attack players early; at the 'where do I travel to' AI decision-level as well as the 'what do I do when I get there' decision-level. I'm guessing that I've only partially unplugged the safety code. I'll check this through, though, walk it through on test - and let you know in the forum when I think it's all working as intended. Cheers, SC
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Posted By: demdigs
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2015 at 18:21
| GM Stormcrow, Thank you for clarification for what is going on. |
Posted By: Wartow
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2015 at 18:30
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More thoughts/questions/wonderings... 1. Will the AI seek those "hated" by a faction? Is the definition of "live" factions more than just the faction "passing by" an encampment/harvesting party being turned into a battle? 2. Are there any factors placed into factions such that they would be less likely to assault a smaller player than a larger one? What about the number of times the same player is hit within a given period? 3. What happens to the crafted gear when the player's army is wiped out by the faction? Can it be gathered or does the faction take it? I'd think these would be good initial implementations before changes in faction standing are introduced to the game. ------------- 
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Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2015 at 00:20
OK, I think it's working as intended as of now... I'll monitor it closely, though, over the next 48hrs, to make sure. Regards, SC |
Posted By: Endrok
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2015 at 10:18
Thanks for the update. Will the faction troops take action against existing camps or only new ones that arrive after the change ? Endrok
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Posted By: TheBillPN
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2015 at 14:28
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anyone been attacked yet? thought i saw an attack earlier : https://imgflip.com/gif/pdx0v" rel="nofollow">  https://imgflip.com/gifgenerator" rel="nofollow - via Imgflip GIF Maker but actually stopped here:  on top of some harvesters...
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Posted By: Endrok
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2015 at 15:19
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I have 2 camps in the area around The Tower ... no attacks yet. If no attacks on those 2 camps by morning then I'll be recalling them. I have a 3rd army on the way to see if it needs an army that camps after the code change ..... just in case the AI ignores camps already in the area. |
Posted By: Count Rupert
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2015 at 21:12
I think you're grossly overestimating the way the AI is going to work. Like the AI is going to see your campsites and sprint armies after them as a direct response. I suppose it may work that way. I see it more of an extension to the behavior we've already been seeing. In that since they "turned" on factions, the different factions have been sending out armies to patrol their respective areas. Before this change when one of these armies bumped into one of yours, you simply got a message about them passing by your campsite as they moved on. I think that all that's changed is now when these bumps occur with one of the factions affected by this change, there will be a battle instead of the message. My experience has been that faction patrols bumping into one of my units occur infrequently and randomly. I don't see this changing.
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Posted By: Alcie
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2015 at 03:04
I assume it will be mostly passive as well. But I think we are crossing our toes in regards to the super negative standings which imply non-passivity: -75 Will actively seek out and try to destroy cities within a certain radius of faction hub -90 Pure hatred, will attempt to destroy at any cost |
Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2015 at 04:02
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That certainly sounds more interesting than: -90 May accidentally collide with armies during routine patrols |
Posted By: Endrok
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2015 at 11:00
I can understand that at a standing of -50 or less where the description is: "May attack and kill any units they see in "their territory" But once the standing falls below -75 the description changes to: "Will actively seek out and try to destroy cities within a certain radius of faction hub" 'May attack' could easily apply to camps they just happen to meet whilst patrolling the areas around their hubs, but 'Actively seek out' certainly implies something a bit less random. I suppose time will tell! Once the other factions go live it will be interesting to see how they distinguish between camps of players at different standings .... will the AI just know standing and troop numbers or will they need to scout! I suppose within a certain radius they could get a generic size (horde, host, legion etc) in the same way players do. However .............. still waiting for the first attack! |
Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2015 at 12:45
| Again...they would be a lot more challenging with human control involvement with coding written to help provide information giving human controller options of activity....AI in games is always figured out quickly and with a game that never resets will date the factions activity quickly....human control |
Posted By: Endrok
Date Posted: 14 Aug 2015 at 13:08
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Rumour has it that a Court Martial will be taking place in The Tower ..... something to do with cowardly Shadow Mages failing in their sworn duty to destroy at all costs!
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Posted By: Dungshoveleux
Date Posted: 14 Aug 2015 at 21:03
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I would venture that the faction military mission logic would have sections on:- 1 Presence of units from players - within faction diplomatic radius of a hub. 2 Are they friendly or hostile? 3 Are they bigger or smaller than us? 4 Attack or ignore decision based on 1, 2 and 3. -75 I think relates to question 3 -90 I think ignores question 3
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Posted By: Stukahh
Date Posted: 14 Aug 2015 at 23:02
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Has anyone been attacked yet from the -90 factions? ------------- I don't always drink. But when I do, I prefer the blood of my enemies. |
Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 15 Aug 2015 at 01:09
| Gosh I hope you are wrong dung...those parameters you already figured out but I hate to say with AI in other games they often behave in simple decision patterns unless the coder included a random in making a decision such as a dice roll....hint hint...something I have been suggesting to be used in all military functions...let's have a less predictable game! let's make it challenging! |
Posted By: Dungshoveleux
Date Posted: 15 Aug 2015 at 23:08
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The combat AI certainly needs some variability, as I don't think the results are always realistic. I have never understood how a city could be attacked (not a seige) using troops that couldn't engage the defenders behind the walls. Sending cavalry and infantry against city walls is a little silly and without seige towers and ladders, it ought not to be possible to attack a city if they hide inside.
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Posted By: Halcyon
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2015 at 19:16
| The Tower has started to attack. |
Posted By: Dungshoveleux
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2015 at 23:49
| There are so many armies camped at the tower! |
Posted By: Marty
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2015 at 00:10
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Do you have a report to share? I've been watching the area, they're moving between buildings as far as I've seen, but of course I'm not here 24 hours a day. 3 of those armies are mine :D
M |
Posted By: Endrok
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2015 at 08:22
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I've still not seen any attacks at the Tower. I have currently have 3 armies there. One will be heading home within the hour the other 2 have 4 & 8 days remaining. Wondering if my armies were too large so I'm sending a small sacrificial patrol to see it the Shadow Mages are feeling brave :-). They'll be landing on a spot where there is currently a Tower camp, I fully expect them to have moved by the time my troops arrive (otherwise my guys are dead) http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/World/Map/528/-2933" rel="nofollow - http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/World/Map/528/-2933 |
Posted By: Marty
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2015 at 08:56
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Currently they're occupying the buildings, in rotation, they're not often unoccupied. One group camps, then moves on, another group moves in. There has been a bit of merging in the same place and partial withdrawal from a spot too. (ie 2 groups on the same spot at one time, then one of the groups leaves) M
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Posted By: Endrok
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2015 at 12:16
Well I guess we'll have to wait a little longer ....  |
Posted By: Endrok
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2015 at 07:48
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My small sacrificial army have arrived near the Tower early this morning. The neighbours seem quite friendly ... thinking of inviting them over for drinks.  |
Posted By: Halcyon
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2015 at 17:13
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There was a small attack by 342 Shadow Mages on one of the camps close to Omen. They killed 389 defenders. A single attack 2.5 days ago and nothing since. Weak.
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Posted By: TheBillPN
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2015 at 14:11
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/me thinks this has gone off topic... any more news about faction attacks?
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Posted By: TheBillPN
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2015 at 15:21
| i get that Elgean players should attack factions in Elgea, and Bl in BL etc, that seems only logical twilights, but what i meant was the convo about the SS mine..nothing to do with factions... |
Posted By: TheBillPN
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2015 at 15:35
doh  |
Posted By: TheBillPN
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2015 at 16:04
| hearing about being attacked by factions is fine, debating about which square it was and who it belonged to is for a different thread or in-game inter-alliance communication to decide. |
Posted By: GM Rikoo
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2015 at 03:12
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The next player who posts something off topic in this thread will be banned from the forums. Rikoo ------------- Illyriad Community Manager / Public Relations / community@illyriad.co.uk |
Posted By: Marty
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2015 at 03:28
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I have had an encampment attacked, the report is posted in this thread: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/factions-are-live_topic6559.html#89048" rel="nofollow - http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/factions-are-live_topic6559.html#89048 Marty
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Posted By: Marty
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2015 at 23:26
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The above army was attacked again, less than 12 hours after the first attack. There was another reinforcing army on the spot so again all of the Shadow Mages died. Also interesting to note that (at Omen) there do not seem to be any Faction armies moving Marty Edited to correct - someone pointed out a camping faction army to me, a long way from where they've previously been seen.
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Posted By: Marty
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2015 at 11:03
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Can anyone confirm whether the commanders gain XP from successful defense, or whether the player's defense points/ranking is affected by defending against faction attacks? M
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Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2015 at 17:14
| You could go to global rankings and write down your exact score. Then if your camp is attacked again, see if the number changes. |
Posted By: Marty
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2015 at 22:58
Thanks Brandmeister, that's obvious now you say it  . I wrote it down, then realised I can also see the information on my growth chart. I can now say that the attacks from faction armies DO add to a player's defense score. Marty
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