Is Illyriad a Game or a Playground?
Printed From: Illyriad
Category: Miscellaneous
Forum Name: The Caravanserai
Forum Description: A place to just chat about whatever takes your fancy, whether it's about Illyriad or not.
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=6523
Printed Date: 17 Apr 2022 at 06:28
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Is Illyriad a Game or a Playground?
Posted By: ajqtrz
Subject: Is Illyriad a Game or a Playground?
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2015 at 16:05
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In any case, a game usually has a definition of "winning." A game is, most of the time, a competition with rules about how the competition will go and what is allowed and what is not. And usually a game has a point at which it ends. In what ways is Illyriad a game? On the other hand, it's also been suggested that Illyriad is a playground. A playground is a place where people come to play, sometimes games, sometimes imaginative adventures, sometimes to chat and all sorts of things. On a playground there are more or less permanent areas where things take place (basketball courts, baseball diamonds, etc...), sometimes temporary areas where things take place (sandboxes to dig and make up games in, sidewalks for hop scotch and four square, etc) and in some of those areas are resources for different kinds of activities. In what ways is Illryriad a playground? And finally, are there different social rules governing a game and a playground? Remember this is not about LC's and do try to keep your comments on the question at hand: "Is Illyriad a Game or a Playground?" AJ Edited out the first part. Do not call out GMs by name just to say they are doing something. Thanks. - Rikoo
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Replies:
Posted By: Ricky
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2015 at 16:17
| Illyriad is a playground in which one can play games. However, Illyriad is not a game. I suspect some of the complaining about lack of tournaments, etc. is due to people who can't distinguish between a game and a playground. The beauty of a playground is, if you're bored, you can play games of your choosing (within the boundaries of the playground), either by yourself or with others. Illyriad is what you make it. Unhappy? Be the change you want. If it doesn't work out, try something else. |
Posted By: Jejune
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2015 at 16:33
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Well, Illyriad is a game. By definition, it is widely defined by its creators and the media as a game. A quick search in Google reveals this:  In the footer of this forum and in-game, players can access " http://www.illyriad.co.uk/GameInformation" rel="nofollow - game information " or read about the parent company, Illyriad Games Ltd. The "Rules" section of the forums is demarcated as "The Rules of the Kingdom: what you can and can't do in game and in the forums." Illyriad was heralded as a "...solid and deep MMO play experience." and "certainly a sweeping, epic strategy game..." at the Independent Games Festival. Players in Illyriad are constantly and frequently confronted with the fact that it is intended to be seen as a game. Players are of course open to interpret Illyriad as anything they wish -- but the preponderance of evidence supports the notion that it is intended to be regarded as a game. ------------- https://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/394156" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: Llannedd
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2015 at 16:56
| This is a topic that will have no consensus. It hinges on how one wishes to define the word "game". Personally I define it fairly narrowly as an activity with a common set of rules where players are in direct competition and there is a definite point at which either one player wins or time runs out. In that sense Illy is not a game and calling it one does not make it so. Illy reminds me more of something like Second Life: it's an environment where people generally have to make their own entertainment. |
Posted By: Thexion
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2015 at 16:56
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It is a strategy game in a fantasy world. You can play it many ways and for many aims but they are not separated there is only one world. There is no definite or absolute rules unless its written down as code or by otherwise by Illyriad games ltd. Ps. Never heard of simulator games? |
Posted By: Gragnog
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2015 at 17:46
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Does anyone really care? This seems like just another thread for AJ to carry on his rant. First is was whether players are people, now it is if it is a game or playground. Get over it. People come to the game to get away from the issues in real life. If they wanted to be treated like real people, or play in a playground they would go out and meet real people, or go and play in a playground. ------------- Kaggen is my human half |
Posted By: ajqtrz
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2015 at 22:16
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It does hing upon how one defines game and playground. I'm asking what you think because, as people have noticed, if you define it as a game in the traditional sense then you will view the meta game differently than if you define it as a gaming environment, which is, I think a better definition of this type of game. I truly appreciate JeJune's reliance upon evidence, something that is often lacking in these discussions, but as has been pointed out, there are games of competition and games of cooperation as well. If you have an open ended game with only the barest of structures and a maximum amount of freedom to play it as you and your friends wish, is it still a game. A reasonable example may be I invite you over for cards. You know before you come what cards are but you don't necessarily know which of the thousands of versions of card games I am suggesting. Even if you play poker you sometimes arrive and find that you are playing Texas Hold 'em or Draw or some other variation where the rules are different and even the procedures are different. You don't say that poker has to be played a certain way or that even the term Poker means only a particular type of poker. Further, if you have more than one table you may be playing different games at each table or even each hand! Is poker a game? If it is then the term "game" may be applied to Illy and Illy may still be a playground of sorts. So Illy is a MMORG with all kinds of possible sub-games that can be played. At least that's how I see it. AJ |
Posted By: Princess Botchface
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2015 at 13:44
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Generally, communication has some kind purpose. If your writing an ad you are trying to persuade, if you are writing a sports column you are trying to inform, if you're writing a blog about your dog who died and that he was more of a lover than a pet, you are trying to cope. What the f*** are trying to communicate with this drivel? You have never really stated the purpose of your windy ramblings but one could extrapolate. With this I dont know where you are going or what the point is. To me, it looks like you are running out of ways to retread the same ground. I would like to thank GM Rikoo for reducing the length of ajs post, making it, perhaps not digestible but at least a bit more chewable. |
Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2015 at 18:11
| Illyriad is a game about empires. It might not have a developer-defined endgame, but it is still a MMORTS or "grand strategy" game. |
Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2015 at 02:26
| Illy is what we make it. There are broad mechanics and limits on what you can do, a few things you are required to do (like have sufficient food to support your city). Other than that, it's all up to us. |
Posted By: Mr. Ubiquitous Feral
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2015 at 17:43
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RL: Abbreviation for Real Life, a free MMORPG/FPS that automatically logs you in when you exit all other computer games. Unfortunately, there's a very steep learning curve, and there doesn't appear to be any respawn for dead players. Maybe Illy is the Real World, and we play in 'RL'? ------------- I am a Machine. |
Posted By: ajqtrz
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2015 at 21:54
Thanks for the laugh! Sometimes I do feel like Illyriad takes up a lot of time and energy in the real world that I could spend doing other things...but I'm having way too much fun for other thing to intrude. On Rill's point I would agree. It is what WE make it, not what the devs make it or any other group. If it's to be successful I would think we would want to make it as pleasant a playground as possible. In response to Brandmeister's thoughtful: Illyriad is a game about empires. It might not have a developer-defined endgame, but it is still a MMORTS or "grand strategy" game. I must agree pretty much, except the part about "a game about empires." It may be about empires if your goal is empires, but one could play in the sandbox without a desire to have an empire. Just as you might describe a playground as "a grade school playground with swings, seesaws, four square and basketball courts, you don't therefore exclude the playing of other things like hopscotch, badminton and curling (well, maybe curling...LOL). As Rill said, we make of it what we want, a position I think includes making empires or just hanging out typing away in the forums all day because that's what we enjoy. The "strategy" part of it depends a lot on what you are aiming to accomplish. I can imagine a player with the goal of having a 50k city sneaking over into a corner somewhere and quietly building that one city all by himself or herself. Or another wanting to reach the 40 city limit first. Or another wanting to greet all the new players and make them feel at home. Lots of strategies for doing what you want. That's just like a playground, isn't it? AJ |
Mr. Ubiquitous Feral wrote:Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2015 at 23:17
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I find the playground metaphor inaccurate. People might set personal goals or enjoy specific activities within Illyriad, but everything is in the context of empires. Every building in your city is to produce troops, decrease their cost, or produce the items necessary to build and arm them. All the rare materials on the map exist to make munitions, or are presently useless. Magic, research, sovereignty, crafting, diplomacy, trade--they are all ultimately present to support armies. Players like myself might specialize in a few aspects like trade and crafting, but the whole of the game mechanics are oriented directly or indirectly around troops. How those troops are used is the crux of Illyriad. Many enjoy hunting and tournaments, a few enjoy wars. The existence of some pacifist options doesn't change the fundamental nature of the sandbox--Illyriad is a game about empires. |
Posted By: Venita
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2015 at 00:44
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You all think too much, debate too much. Plain and simple , Illy is a war game . Some may not engage in military activities, but every aspect supports troops. From harvesting , crafting, and on. It is all to support/build/armour your troops. |
Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2015 at 00:50
| War isn't the only outlet for empires to use troops. Tournaments probably consume more troops than wars. |
Posted By: jcx
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2015 at 03:56
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Hi Aj, Illyriad is a game, but the play style depends on the player (yourself) if you wanted to play it militarily or whatever you wish to do with it - go on. Nobody will stop you from pursuing it. I'm enjoying the game even without military action for the past year through building, hunting, solving mysteries (ahem), etc. that triggers my interest and I am playing at my own pace. War is a tedious task - it requires time, rl money and etc. for players wanted to be on the war side its fine they can play until they ran out both of game and rl resources and we don't mind. Piece of Advice, enjoy the game - explore or do whatever you wish to do so. Personally it doesn't matter to me if you enjoy the game by debating about the game itself it works it both ways either too. lol have fun and happy hunting! ------------- Disclaimer: The above is jcx|orcboy's personal opinion and is not the opinion or policy of Harmless? [H?] or of the little green men that have been following him all day. jcx in H? | orcboy in H? |
Posted By: Angrim
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2015 at 13:51
ajqtrz is attempting to build an analogy that will force the forum audience into a position that individual players, and by extension groups of players, have a "right" to play without interference from other players; i.e., to set up islands of play protected by "universally accepted" principles (e.g., the 10-square rule). i actually accept the analogy but reject his regimented view of playground activities. i do not think this argument is likely to change many minds. |
Posted By: ajqtrz
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2015 at 20:22
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Angrim, As usual you see the connection between what is being discussed and implications of the answer you give to the question. Very good. But that, in itself, does not answer the question. Motives for answering the question one way or the other do not make the answer given true or untrue. Only the actual answer is relevant. Still, it's good you see the connection as those who see Illy as a playground may be more persuadable in other matters. So the more that become convinced of the playground nature of the game the better for my position on other matters. But I don't intend and don't envision any sort of "islands of play protected by 'universally accepted' principle" I envision a time when all of Illy is protected from players intimidating other players with threats of coercion for what they have said in the forums or where they plant their cities. In other words, no islands, but two continents (at this time) of freedom. In the end if Illy is more of a playground then such a vision may be the only moral choice one can make as on a playground it is assumed that each person present should be able to go about their business without being unduly or unfairly treated by the others on the playground. And as far not changing minds... sadly sometimes people wish to follow their emotions rather than the logic and even if you show them the logic they find a way to squirm out of where the logic would take them. Most people are driven by the logic of their emotions rather than of their minds. So is Illy a playground or a game? And if you answer one or the other, do tell us why you think the way you do. AJ |
Posted By: ajqtrz
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2015 at 20:46
You think to little and debate not at all. Plain and simple. Illy is a playground. Some may engage in military activities, but every aspect supports whatever goal you have, from harvesting, crafting and so on. It is all to support/build/create whatever it is you want to support/build/create. You see the problem? When you only make statements without evidence or reasoning to back them up all I have to do is state the opposite and we fail to progress in our understanding. But allow me to explain my statements. That Illy is a complex location is obvious since we wouldn't be discussing this question if it were obvious to all. What is obvious to you is not always obvious to all, or even to many. I would argue that if you wanted to actually engage in the question at hand you would find that both the "game" and the "playground" descriptions have some evidence in and reasoning in support, but that you would need to actually do more thinking to comprehend that to be so. You say "Illy is a war game" because you can make war in Illy. That is like saying my 2008 Chevrolet Impala is a taxi because I can use it like one. Illy is a structure of web pages in cyber space used by some to simulate wars and used by others to simulate other human (and non) activities. It is a simulation in one sense, but an incomplete one since is sets up an imaginary world where real people can explore differing roles, from warrior to trainer, trader to merchant and so on and shape to some degree whatever it becomes. As it is now, it is no more a "war game" than the world is a "war world." Of course if you mean by "a war game" that you cannot exist in Illy without going to war, I would beg to differ with you as there are hundreds of players who have never gone to war, and some of us have only done so because we were attacked. So if it is a war game, it is because you CHOOSE to make it so. I have no problem with you doing so, so long as you leave me the freedom to CHOOSE to not make it a war game. The point being that you can choose to make it a war game and I can choose to do otherwise just as on a playground you can choose to play basketball or choose to play hopscotch. And if you choose to one or the other if you force others to play what it is you are playing, then you have taken their choice away. So a playground may emphasize baseball and have baseball diamonds, but we can all choose to play Frisbee golf on it, or football or whatever. Illy is a place of choices. In addition, while every aspect does support troops, every aspect also supports hunting NPC's, trade, quests, and the like. The designers may have spent more time and energy on the warfare aspect of it, and perhaps it's because they want to attract warriors, but that doesn't mean they built it to be a war game. I can build a playground with 200 basketball courts but that doesn't mean the skate-boarders are not allowed to skate board. So Illy reflects a simulated playground. A playground with all kinds of tools for real people to use with their imagination to create a whole range of things, including wars, peace treaties, harvesting, roads, forum discussions, quests, tournaments and the like. Just like a playground its a cyber space playground. Now how about expanding on your post and giving us some reasoning upon which to chew. AJ |
Posted By: Angrim
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2015 at 01:55
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Posted By: Angrim
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2015 at 02:06
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Posted By: Aurordan
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2015 at 02:18
| Illyriad is a cow game. Nothing anyone can say can convince me otherwise. |