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03JUL15 - No More Research Technology Carry Over

Printed From: Illyriad
Category: News & Announcements
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URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=6489
Printed Date: 22 Aug 2019 at 03:44
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Topic: 03JUL15 - No More Research Technology Carry Over
Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Subject: 03JUL15 - No More Research Technology Carry Over
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2015 at 17:21
Hi everyone,

Regarding the old rule whereby a player's last city, if sieged and razed or captured, would respawn elsewhere on the map with all the research it used to have...

Effective immediately, the research aspect of this no longer carries over.  

So whilst a player on their last city will be 'restarted' elsewhere, no research whatsoever will be transferred to the new city.

Regards,

SC



Replies:
Posted By: DArtagnan
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2015 at 17:25
That really Sucks!!!!


Posted By: DArtagnan
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2015 at 17:27
better to abandon and start over


Posted By: Angrim
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2015 at 17:30
seems ripe for exploitation, when one considers that the last city could be razed repeatedly...


Posted By: Sheza
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2015 at 18:20
That will make people quit and not try to play and make more cities . 
if they are small in the first place. 
darn right Mean....... 


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If Horses don't go to Heaven when they die. then I want to go where they go.


Posted By: abstractdream
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2015 at 18:56
I assume this will go unanswered but, what's the purpose of this change? Is there some exploit this eliminates? I think I speak for many of us when I say this makes no real sense. Please explain.

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Bonfyr Verboo


Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2015 at 19:22
It theoretically allows a city with complete research to be cloned. This would especially be an issue once somebody unlocks the special items (champion armor, spirit bow, master crafted chainmail, marauder sword).


Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2015 at 19:26
It's pretty straightforward.

Notwithstanding the fact that there have been very few occurrences of people getting "sieged out of the game"... but on the rare occasion it has happened, in the past, the sieging player(s) tended to leave the smallest city to last, to ensure a more comprehensive destruction of the player getting sieged - so this changes little in this respect.

Research times cannot be sped up by prestige, and are an important braking factor for Illy.

What this change helps mitigate are those players who have chased fully researched (but very small) cities around the map multiple times in succession in order to bypass the usual braking factor of normal research queues - essentially creating multiple 'research copies' of the same city, over and over again, without having to actually do the research.  Not an exploit, and still involves quite some effort with sieging, exodus etc - but we don't want to foster any repeatable mechanism to essentially bypass research time.

Regards,

SC 


Posted By: Angrim
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2015 at 19:52
Originally posted by GM Stormcrow GM Stormcrow wrote:

What this change helps mitigate are those players who have chased fully researched (but very small) cities around the map multiple times in succession in order to bypass the usual braking factor of normal research queues - essentially creating multiple 'research copies' of the same city, over and over again, without having to actually do the research.  Not an exploit, and still involves quite some effort with sieging, exodus etc - but we don't want to foster any repeatable mechanism to essentially bypass research time.
perhaps i'm using the word incorrectly. that would seem to be taking advantage of a measure designed to retain defeated players and using it instead to bypass, as you say, an important "braking factor" in the game. particularly in conjunction with the recent rule changes regarding cities allowed and the mass expiration of sat accounts, this seems quite necessary to me.


Posted By: abstractdream
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2015 at 20:26
Originally posted by GM Stormcrow GM Stormcrow wrote:

- essentially creating multiple 'research copies' of the same city, over and over again, without having to actually do the research.
Ahhh. 

Not having the interest in that sort of "not an exploit," I never considered the possibility. Fair enough, and thanks for the work as well as the disclosure.


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Bonfyr Verboo


Posted By: Berde
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2015 at 20:30
While I agree that a city shouldn't be able to be cloned multiple times, I wonder if there might be a better (but likely harder - maybe not even possible - to code) way of dealing with this?

Maybe coding some sort of "ticker" onto the city that marks it as having already been sieged once so that the research only comes back in its first "life" and a second would yield nothing?

Being sieged back to the newbie ring may not happen often, but this change would be a real kick in the teeth for those that it does happen to.


Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2015 at 20:56
How often does someone get completely destroyed to 0, and then rebuild the account?

Also worth noting, if your friends gave you books and resources, you could complete city capture research in under a week. Once you can capture, you can have a good research city, which makes everything else roughly the same as now.


Posted By: Granlik
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2015 at 21:12
I think Wumpuss went through that, if I read his profile correctly, but then he seems to have just continued to carry on and live a happy kind of life.


Posted By: Malek
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2015 at 23:16
Originally posted by GM Stormcrow GM Stormcrow wrote:

It's pretty straightforward.

Notwithstanding the fact that there have been very few occurrences of people getting "sieged out of the game"... but on the rare occasion it has happened, in the past, the sieging player(s) tended to leave the smallest city to last, to ensure a more comprehensive destruction of the player getting sieged - so this changes little in this respect.

Research times cannot be sped up by prestige, and are an important braking factor for Illy.

What this change helps mitigate are those players who have chased fully researched (but very small) cities around the map multiple times in succession in order to bypass the usual braking factor of normal research queues - essentially creating multiple 'research copies' of the same city, over and over again, without having to actually do the research.  Not an exploit, and still involves quite some effort with sieging, exodus etc - but we don't want to foster any repeatable mechanism to essentially bypass research time.

Regards,

SC 

SC I have to disagree with you on this. One of the main reasons that there was a lot of vitriol and hate in the last war can be directly linked to the amount of time that people invest in cities. You have a city that takes a number of years to complete the research and it can be taken in less than a day, the record being 12h27 set by Cactus. 

You have oft stated that you would like to see more "friction" in the game. Excessively long research times is not a braking factor for this to occur, rather it is a crippling factor. The amount of time people invest and RL$ creates an attachment to their digital cities that is counterproductive to your goals and in some cases unhealthy as when they get attacked they enter the meltdown mode. The end result of this is a game where people talk and thats about it.  

If you would like more "friction" in the game, you need to come up with a solution that encourages increased friction.  Waiting for player boredom is not going to work and when player boredom kicks in you have the results mentioned above. 

With the lack of game driven content that fosters safe competition people just sit around and talk tough but thats about it.  This is also another reason why BANE went broke, as a merc alliance we relied on gold from conflict and tournaments with neither occurring it became untenable to hold and maintain large standing armies across the alliance. Pioneering large standing armies became a moot point if they could not be sustained. 

At the end of the day, you need to speed some factor of game play up to foster increased friction and decrease aggravation. The "braking" factor that you speak of goes against that making it a process that takes an excessive amount of is not benefitting anyone. 

Capping full researched towns enabled players to get right into the action effectively setting the cat amongst the pidgeons so to speak. It was effective and it works. If you have no regard for your cities because you can replace them, it makes the game much more enjoyable, much more competitive. 

I have a number of different ways that something like this could be achieved, if the devs are interested, let me know.   





Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2015 at 23:45
Darn it...another secret trick gone...the game should allow secrets that players discover...players should be rewarded when they discover things that can be used to their advantage over others...oh well..time to find other tricks...great game and so many secrets in it....everyone should experiment with combinations of functions...surprising results


Posted By: Malek
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2015 at 23:49
As a further addition to my previous post. I would like to add that as part of sin, this alliance has had to be built from the ground up. It was not easy to do so, as was pointed out to me in AC by Silent Sword, alliances like sin could find it hard to compete on an equal footing with Elgean alliances. 

I do agree that research should not able to be prestiged as this would make Sabo's completely and utterly useless. 

The main crux of my argument with this update is that overall it has a net negative effect primarily based on the anti-competitive times to complete research to achieve desired goals. No other aspect of game play needs to be reviewed in relation to this, to me the research time is not a braking aspect of gameplay it is crippling. 



Posted By: Count Rupert
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2015 at 00:12
Originally posted by Malek Malek wrote:

Originally posted by GM Stormcrow GM Stormcrow wrote:

It's pretty straightforward.

Notwithstanding the fact that there have been very few occurrences of people getting "sieged out of the game"... but on the rare occasion it has happened, in the past, the sieging player(s) tended to leave the smallest city to last, to ensure a more comprehensive destruction of the player getting sieged - so this changes little in this respect.

Research times cannot be sped up by prestige, and are an important braking factor for Illy.

What this change helps mitigate are those players who have chased fully researched (but very small) cities around the map multiple times in succession in order to bypass the usual braking factor of normal research queues - essentially creating multiple 'research copies' of the same city, over and over again, without having to actually do the research.  Not an exploit, and still involves quite some effort with sieging, exodus etc - but we don't want to foster any repeatable mechanism to essentially bypass research time.

Regards,

SC 

SC I have to disagree with you on this. One of the main reasons that there was a lot of vitriol and hate in the last war can be directly linked to the amount of time that people invest in cities. You have a city that takes a number of years to complete the research and it can be taken in less than a day, the record being 12h27 set by Cactus. 

You have oft stated that you would like to see more "friction" in the game. Excessively long research times is not a braking factor for this to occur, rather it is a crippling factor. The amount of time people invest and RL$ creates an attachment to their digital cities that is counterproductive to your goals and in some cases unhealthy as when they get attacked they enter the meltdown mode. The end result of this is a game where people talk and thats about it.  

If you would like more "friction" in the game, you need to come up with a solution that encourages increased friction.  Waiting for player boredom is not going to work and when player boredom kicks in you have the results mentioned above. 

With the lack of game driven content that fosters safe competition people just sit around and talk tough but thats about it.  This is also another reason why BANE went broke, as a merc alliance we relied on gold from conflict and tournaments with neither occurring it became untenable to hold and maintain large standing armies across the alliance. Pioneering large standing armies became a moot point if they could not be sustained. 

At the end of the day, you need to speed some factor of game play up to foster increased friction and decrease aggravation. The "braking" factor that you speak of goes against that making it a process that takes an excessive amount of is not benefitting anyone. 

Capping full researched towns enabled players to get right into the action effectively setting the cat amongst the pidgeons so to speak. It was effective and it works. If you have no regard for your cities because you can replace them, it makes the game much more enjoyable, much more competitive. 

I have a number of different ways that something like this could be achieved, if the devs are interested, let me know.   




I have this feeling you misunderstand what the change is unless I'm misunderstanding.  The change doesn't mean every city captured from here out will come with no research.  This change is for the narrow category of cities where after the last player built city on an account is captured/razed there is a zero city pop up somewhere in the newbie ring.  These are the only cities now not coming with research.  You can still capture full researched towns.  So everything is still in play, just not playing whack a mole with the repeat capturing of those popup cities.


Posted By: Malek
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2015 at 00:27
What this method enabled was people to play competitively in a short period of time. To circumvent 3 years of useless clicking as finding and accessing researched towns is not easy. It still validates my point that the current times for research are not a braking gameplay they are crippling it. If research was attainable in a more timely manner, people would not be looking for methods to circumvent the normal research issue. 

It is especially a kick in the nuts if you have done this research numerous times and you have to keep doing it, more useless clicking than actually playing. 

When you need towns the most is in a war setting to replenish losses that may have been incurred. Getting towns with research from other alliances could be seen as aiding that alliance and put them in strife. Settling a town in war takes too long to bring online to aid your alliance. As almost all of these researched towns are in elgea sending a siege to them can take weeks from BL. So once again this process hinders BL alliances. 


Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2015 at 01:06
Malek, in my mind, you found a clever workaround for a very dumb game premise that severely limits gameplay. Namely, that every new settlement must start with zero research, regardless of the state of the parent city. Why on earth would a bunch of conquered people convey all their technology intact, but your own citizens refuse to properly educate their new settlements? Ignoring the total lack of realism, as a game mechanic this just drives people to capture cities instead of settling them. I settled a single city before I realized that capturing is 20x more efficient, and I never settled another one. Settlement takes months to accomplish what you could acquire in a day with 10 catapults.

The Broken Lands angle is a good point: there are not many worthwhile cities to capture down there. Much unlike Elgea, which is littered with abandoned towns owned by alliances. Given the difficulties of finding a good town, maybe advanced spies (or a new type of spy) should be capable of revealing the completed research in a city.


Posted By: Malek
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2015 at 01:51
Brand, 
You have hit the nail on the head there mate. In BL it is to hard to do anything, once again the new continent is penalised due to the incumberance of elgea. 

Research in its current format is hopeless. I honestly have better things to do than research better things to spend RP on thats for sure. Not being able to take research into a new town is also not believeable. As the settlers have come from a town that has some or all research completed when they leave to settle a new town. It is unlikely that you have sent complete morons to settle a new town but rather educated people to further your empire and knowledge should be transferrable. 

To change the dynamic of gameplay, the research should be looked at. 30 day research? Seriously, this is ludicrous. If research cannot be prestige spent, you should be allowed to queue more than 2 at least. There is nothing wrong with queuing 10 subsequent researches i.e if you click that preposterous 30 day research, it will complete all pre-requisite research for you. 

I know that some research was decreased for the new players to the game. What about the established players that find it hard to locate sufficiently researched towns and have to settle. The established players are the ones that are still playing and more often than not spending money on prestige. It is cheaper to keep the established players playing and spending money than it is to attract new players. 

Fair is fair, do something with research so that people do not have to get creative to suit their own needs we fork out enough cash on this hobby, making the game quicker to get into will be a net positive for the game and you may find it will increase the competitiveness ingame due to the decreased attachment that people have for their cities. Knowing that you can replace anything in a reasonable time will make the game more exciting. To get into it faster, you have to spend prestige, which is also a win for the game as it puts more money into it to keep it going. 
 


Posted By: Artefore
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2015 at 01:55
I feel like there's a better way to go about this. Players who wouldn't normally abandon when getting razed back to the newb ring are now far more likely to do so. I propose that a player must build a library in their town after getting razed in order to unlock the razed city's research. This would stop the recapturing of 0 pop cities but would still allow people to rebuild more easily after getting destroyed.

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"don't quote me on that" -Artefore


Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2015 at 02:16
Artefore, I mean no offense, but that's a kludge to prevent an exploit, which itself exists to counter an absurdity.

At some point, it's just necessary to consider why something is being done that way at all.


Posted By: jcx
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2015 at 03:18
O.o - will this impact if you capture cities?

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Disclaimer: The above is jcx|orcboy's personal opinion and is not the opinion or policy of Harmless? [H?] or of the little green men that have been following him all day.

jcx in H? | orcboy in H?


Posted By: Ashmadia
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2015 at 03:39
While it is a rightful change balance-wise, i agree that it is a severe hit for an active player razed constantly to nothing. Maybe a counter could be implemented along with this change, counting down how many times the city's research is transfered.

Perhaps if you allowed the research to transfer, so long as these pre-requisites are met:
1) The account is active (building, not just logging). Abandoned account is disqualified for research transfer. Or even a city respawn at all.
2) The countdown is lower than the maximum set. Say, a maximum of 3.

Now someone could argue that all this is pointless, cause if someone wants to drive another out of the game he would just not stop doing it. I think the community can draw red lines (it already has) and can allow someone to continue playing, if he/she so desires, by sheltering him from extinction.


Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2015 at 08:05
I think that something was necessary to prevent the current practice of repeatedly recapturing cities with all research completed, especially now that the city limit has been increased.  Unfortunately many of the folks who would most benefit from this have already done so.

I do NOT like the effect on the player whose last cities are eliminated.  However, once these folks rebuild to a city with a level 20 barracks, they can capture other cities with completed research, so hopefully some of these folks will still have the courage and persistence to stay in the game.

As an alternative, perhaps a mechanic could be designed so that such a relocated city could not be captured but could only be razed?  Or maybe the "last" city of any player could not be captured but could only be razed?  That seems like it would be possible to code and would not be as likely to be exploited.  People could still "punish" a player they don't like by destroying their final city, but they just couldn't benefit from it.

This would eliminate the potential exploit while still allowing players in this position to enjoy the research they have completed.


Posted By: Malek
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2015 at 11:03
People keep looking at this so called exploit, it is not an exploit. It was a creative use of game mechanics. Not the first time this has occurred and it wont be the last time either. 

What people are not looking at is the root cause for this type of activity. It boils down to how long, tedious and anti competitive research is. You fix that, the game will be a hell of a lot more enjoyable. As there is nothing worse than going to do something and you have not done the research then seeing how long it takes to do the research just adds to the frustration.  

This wont bother most people as most play farmville and wont risk their precious cities. 


Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2015 at 12:59
I think what sec failed to considered was that changing this important secret will create unforeseen consequences...my concern is that other secrets fairly discovered and used by players will also be changed by the devs; it was something many of us enjoyed about the game...the ability to use different functions and methods to give us an edge over others...something else I find discouraging is that this secret has always been there and was available for all players to discover and use as are the other many secrets we are using...it just takes a lot of planning and yes teamwork to put into action...it demanded active playing..it was a benefit for the active player which we need more of....I hope the devs reconsider


Posted By: Agalloch
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2015 at 14:46
Well this does suck , personally i became involved in the war with the  full understanding I may end up re spawning (since i have no clue what i am doing :P ) but with the reassurance that i ll still have some of the work i have put into it with items stored in hubs and all that tedious research that I ve spend months in my settled towns waiting for me now if that does happen I will most likely not bother to ....
My two cents...


Posted By: Angrim
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2015 at 18:49
Originally posted by Agalloch Agalloch wrote:

Well this does suck...
no argument. there are ways to counter the problem, but most will break down if alts are involved, and all require stealing time from AoA, which i doubt the devs are willing to do. i suggest you assuage your sense of loss by finding the players who were not-exploiting this rule and demonstrating your unhappiness about it.  ;)

for good or ill, that is the only remedy the sandbox provides us.


Posted By: Dravin the Sloth
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2015 at 08:15
as a newish player, i think it is a nice new thing.  

the first mention of it by a player who claims to have made use of the old practice referred to it as a trick.

the appeal of a safety net is nice, but you only need a net if you fall.  usually when things fall, there is a splat.  

do i dread the thought of a thirty day research? well, i'm not a masochist, so yes.  did i hate cuing up that blasted twelve day? again, with the yes, but my heart sang a little when it finished and knowing that such things exist, beyond the reach of tricks to supersede, bringing a speck of balance between newish players such as myself and the ancient goliaths that stroll so effortlessly across GC and the map, also plays a little tune in the recesses of my heart.

i like the pace the research brings to the game.  i like that social competency and proficient city building can be rewarded above knowing the quirks in the system.  i like that work trumps tricks. 


Posted By: Agalloch
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2015 at 08:20
its no trick to wanna keep the hard work you spend starting this game, how many buildings wrong ... wrong  researches started , harvesters send on weeks long trips its more than a *trick*.


Posted By: Dravin the Sloth
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2015 at 09:38
an addendum

i mean to make no suggestion that use of the safety net for the reasons it seems most likely meant, retention of players, a softened landing for the vanquished, is remotely tricksy.  it would be the subversion of that intention into other purposes that merits the description.  


Posted By: Malek
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2015 at 11:41
Agalloch, 
I could not agree more. To me it appears that the people that take the military path in this game are penalised the most. The others that just log in to chat and build pretty cities have the free ride and think they know best. Players like you and I that like the military route, we lose a town we have to undertake all the same research tasks again. The others they build towns and only have to do it once.  Its just not cricket, military players tend to spend more on prestige, this stems from prestiging armies for both offense and defense, for high troop production towns, there is prestiging basics to compensate for that, and prestige building for various operations as well as prestiging diplos. 

The Devs have oft spoken of more friction in the game. If you want more friction in the game, do not put roadblocks in the way of that. If I can cap a town to get full tech I will, I do not care 1 iota about research, it hinders my gameplay in being able to achieve the desired result. I have done the research, why should I have to keep doing it over and over again when i lose a town? Its counter productive and makes people not want to lose their precious cities as they know that they could lose the work that they put into them. 
The investment in time to build a city is exceedingly high, the amount of time to lose that city is exceptionally low, surely this can be seen. As I have recounted previously, the braking for the research in this game is crippling. There are still a lot of vets that play that have been here for a number of years and have up to 10 or so established cities. How are newer players able to compete on an even keel with these guys?The research is what holds them back in building towns able to compete as each town that is settled needs to start from scratch. With the new sat account rule, there will be a steady decline in high researched cities as the town base in the game shrinks. 

Simply, stop penalising military players, as we are the ones that put our towns on the line for our gameplay style, why should we be penalised for research? I am already bored with research at some point if i keep losing cities I will simply stop playing because I really cannot be bothered logging in just to queue the same research I keep losing when a town is lost. 

This shortcut would have been good to use (and i did know about it) as it allows me to play and get back into the action. Yes I have to exodus and prestige build, but at least I can build what I need when I need it.  I would be out of commission for 3-4 weeks rather than 2 months doing stupid research that I had already completed. 

The entire research process needs to be overhauled, whether research times are increased and are carried over for the entire account so you only have to research it once, times are further adjusted or we can queue up to 10-20 at once as you cannot prestige research where is the harm in queuing multiple research items. Say you click on plate armourer and it will queue all the pre-requisite research to achieve that, similar to the civilization games. 

Just my further rant on how bad the research mechanic is. 



Posted By: Thexion
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2015 at 13:14
Good call devs! Clap
If you clone the research game is just pay to win.

Now you must at least compete for the abandoned cities or to capture active researched cities and that is real friction. I'm sympathetic to "military way" but there must be other way to make war more profitable. 




Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2015 at 13:30
totally agree..current research times also brakes active game playing....maybe the devs need to bring this function of the game into line with other functions as it seems to ruin many other game activities and deters not only attracting new players but discourages players from continue log in.....I suggest no research times over 12 hours...let's promote active playing and get more players in the game


Posted By: Malek
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2015 at 13:38
Originally posted by Thexion Thexion wrote:

Good call devs! Clap
If you clone the research game is just pay to win.

Now you must at least compete for the abandoned cities or to capture active researched cities and that is real friction. I'm sympathetic to "military way" but there must be other way to make war more profitable. 



Cloning Research towns is not pay to win. Even if you did clone the towns you would then have to build them up. Should that be done you are just left with a built town. No troops, no sov claimed, 0 xp commanders. It will take you a month or two even with pres building to be semi combat effective. Definitely not pay to win. It will become pay to win when you can buy gold direct instead of prestige or insta build armies. Gold is still the most limiting factor in this game as it should be. 

As for competing for abandoned cities, it will be hard to do that if you are sieging from broken lands when the sieges can take weeks to arrive only to find someone else got in looooong before you.

If you have another way to make it more profitable put it up, the people with the free and easy ride in this game are the city builders. 


 



Posted By: Thexion
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2015 at 14:50
I have many times read version of "its not farmville"sentence which I agree in essence with but its not Travian either you can also try some other game if only want war. War is costly in illyriad and building take time. I have done that and it was quite interesting in my opinion to begin again from few towns.

There is plenty of ways devs could make war and military more profitable and interesting:
-Siege captures also the resources, and the resources of traders of that town.
-Make part of the population return after the siege is over and them repair the damages automatically
-Allow raids and attacks capture advanced and crafted resources
-Make harvester raiding possible by making it anonymous if you win with also allowing scouts and troops attached to harvester caravans.
Possibilities are endless..

Use prestige to speed up building and clone your research means surely another step closer to pay to win game.  Also if it would not be fixed it would be another step towards game where you just try to new find loopholes in game mechanics and take advantage. I don't think that game would be fun to play or to follow for many years.    
 


Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2015 at 15:51
The problem here is still caused by the clunky mechanic that research can be captured intact from an unwilling populace, but not taught between your own cities. Presumably that is why people were repeatedly capturing the last city of a 0 population account--it had complete research, allowing them to focus only on buildings. The complete research was never destroyed because every time the account's last city was captured, it would pop up again on the map with research intact.

That loophole couldn't be allowed to remain when people are (hopefully) getting closer to finishing the Audrey quest. But it's also rather silly that it was required in the first place.


Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2015 at 16:31
brand there are other tricks that are still in game play that accomplish trading research that are still in game play...what this deletion accomplishes is to end one way for new players to get into battle ready ness quicker....tricks are used daily and many are easy to spot....just look at accounts in the game after deletion time and figure out how is done..........tricks usage is part of any game and with the complexity of this game they are hidden every where.....if the devs want to slow the game maybe they should also consider taking away prestige building...that function is really pay to win especially in a building game..research mainly limits other functions and not building...there are other ways to brake the game so again ask the devs to reconsider this


Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2015 at 18:40
Illyriad is not pay to win. The very suggestion is laughable. I have played P2W games where a player can spend $1000 and instantly be the most powerful account on a server by a factor of 5x. That is pay-to-win. Until Illyriad offers a way to immediately produce troops with in-game currency, it will not even distantly resemble P2W. Building completion is a convenience, but it does not result in the same huge power shifts associated with insta-troops.


Posted By: Ashmadia
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2015 at 19:02
I think that we all have already spotted something even more important than this change: the uselessness of settling opposite to the extreme usefulness of capturing.
Perhaps the reason behind that huge difference is the need to cause friction, by rewarding that gameplay but in my opinion it has utterly failed: only abandoneds and inactives are the targets of the mechanism. I will go off-topic to explain why a true warrior would need to lose more than 1 cities to actually make the requirement to capture another or how insane he would be to start a war with the hopes of capturing a few cities while risking to lose some in the process.

It is a pretty straightforward necessity in my opinion. Make settling transfer the completed research and keep removing exploits from the game. Allow Malek (mentioned as a reference point) to be competitive while refraining from discovering and exploiting mechanisms to actually be at all competitive.


Posted By: Angrim
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2015 at 19:12
Originally posted by Malek Malek wrote:

To me it appears that the people that take the military path in this game are penalised the most.
loss is penalised, full stop. if military players were the only ones to lose cities, we'd not have the faction that thinks war ought to be limited to willing participants.

Originally posted by Malek Malek wrote:

If I can cap a town to get full tech I will, I do not care 1 iota about research, it hinders my gameplay in being able to achieve the desired result.
absolutely nothing here has hindered that tactic at all.

Originally posted by Malek Malek wrote:

There are still a lot of vets that play that have been here for a number of years and have up to 10 or so established cities. How are newer players able to compete on an even keel with these guys?The research is what holds them back in building towns able to compete as each town that is settled needs to start from scratch. With the new sat account rule, there will be a steady decline in high researched cities as the town base in the game shrinks.
all true, but when you express concern that "newer players" can't compete, what you really mean is "newer players with gobs of money" can't compete...because the build times alone would keep free-to-play players, military or otherwise, down for quite some time. this is an aspect of the way the game scales. there is also a tiny fraction of available research that is required for a military city, so i really don't see it as the burden you think it is. it *is* a brake. it is not crippling, or else illy would have no military players.

Originally posted by Malek Malek wrote:

i am already bored with research
seriously? you think someone else finds it intellectually stimulating? i don't think this is limited to military players.

research could be overhauled, i don't think much of 30d research projects...but fully researching a city is a 3-year affair, and the two months you quote here simply does not seem worth the rant in the scope of the game. it means, specifically, that you could lose and rebuild a city 18 times in the time it takes one builder-type player to fully research theirs. i'm all for adjusting the scale of the game such that three- or four-city players could be militarily consequential. granting every city full research does not achieve that.


Posted By: Captain Kindly
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2015 at 14:48
While I agree that this is a bad change, I really doubt it will be reverted. In 4 years of playing, I have yet have to see DEVs admitting to making a mistake.

So Cynical Me is not going to add more words apart from saying this is a very bad choice.


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http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/60249" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2015 at 15:20
its hurts military slightly....it hurts other areas of the game more....it primarily hurts the ability of attracting new players and maintaining the interest of current players....the game needs players actively playing....brakeing functions discourages that...chat games seldom attract large amounts of players when the chatter is not game related..there are still other tricks in game to bypass research...just look at number of accounts being held that pass delete time....rolls eyes at the devs....but please don't change that....it will only hurt the game more


Posted By: Agalloch
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2015 at 16:32
I totally agree with most of what Malek mentioned , on another side note if the current game changes were meant to attract more active military players it has failed miserably, even tho i been playing only about 6 months or so i still see about 500 to 600 active players that hasn't changed one iota from where I am sitting.


Posted By: Venita
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2015 at 02:57
Bit late on my comments, but then I do not log into the forum very often.  I agree with Malek on the research time.  I enjoy military play style and am not afraid to lose a city.  This is a military game afterall.   I cannot remember the last time I actually sent settlers out, I always seige my next city, and the reason I do so is BECAUSE of the research.  Once I have seiged it , the buildings are knocked down anyway. 

Devs please consider cutting that research time down.   


Posted By: Romogash
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2015 at 18:03
I agree to this change, gives more of an incentive to raze and keep opponents down and out.


Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2015 at 14:11
Originally posted by Venita Venita wrote:

Bit late on my comments, but then I do not log into the forum very often.  I agree with Malek on the research time.  I enjoy military play style and am not afraid to lose a city.  This is a military game afterall.   I cannot remember the last time I actually sent settlers out, I always seige my next city, and the reason I do so is BECAUSE of the research.  Once I have seiged it , the buildings are knocked down anyway. 

Devs please consider cutting that research time down.   
I think there's some misunderstanding here...

You can still siege a city and capture it, with all its research intact, and make use of that research in your newly captured city.  

Sieging cities to get their research is exactly as it used to be. 

However, when a player's *very last* city is sieged (and captured) that city won't *respawn* elsewhere on the map with all the research still intact (to be sieged *again*). 

The long and short is that you can still siege and capture cities to get research.  What you can no longer do is stamp out carbon-copies of a fully-researched city by chasing a player's last city around the map repeatedly.

Hope that helps.

SC



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