Mistaken Identity
Printed From: Illyriad
Category: The World
Forum Name: Elgea
Forum Description: For everything related to the Elgea Continent
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=6451
Printed Date: 17 Apr 2022 at 19:47
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Mistaken Identity
Posted By: king stag
Subject: Mistaken Identity
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2015 at 05:52
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I just started playing this game close to the beginning of this year. A real life friend told me about it so I decided to look it up and start playing. Of course this friend of mine helped me out substantially in the game. Pretty early on (following some advice of his and other things I've read in these forums) I decided I wanted to join a closely clustered alliance in BL. So I asked in GC about who was out there, and was messaged by Stukahh about SIN and HALO. Sounded good to me, so I hopped aboard. So here I am now, with 5 cities in Fellandire, and the SIN leadership has decided that I am an alt of this friend of mine, and a spy. They say they have a "mountain of evidence" which they refuse to share with me. I would assume a lot of it is just from the help that he has provided me. This friend happens to be in a large alliance who could potentially be a threat to SIN. I keep both my friend and the alliance to myself for now as I have yet to decide whether it is better to name them or not. Perhaps that decision will be taken from me though, but so be it. They are also telling me to either disband all of my troops and leave their area within 1 month, or to be destroyed. I try to not be a complainer about things, especially on the internet. But damn, this is some bull crap. From what I've seen of this game I think there are a lot of players who wouldn't really stand for this type of thing. So I would request that those players weigh in on this issue. Thanks for reading, King Stag
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Replies:
Posted By: HATHALDIR
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2015 at 06:21
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SIN are very vigorous in the defense of their alliance. Unfortunately that means you cannot have friends in other alliances that disagree with what SIN says and does. It is also unfortunate because i believe you cannot leave them once you join, well not without you loosing all your towns and hard work. However whilst i don't play that way, they are entitled to play however they like. PS start finding as many friends as you can, SIN is very thorough. ------------- There's worse blokes than me!! |
Posted By: Captain Kindly
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2015 at 07:52
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I do not know the details of your case. But I know SIN. With all the people/alliances bitching about land claims, I can understand why SIN is wary at the moment. There are a lot of haters carrying years old grudges towards some SINners, and I bet they are looking for a reason to hit them. On the other hand, my dealings as an alliance leader with them show they are reasonable. I am sure you will get a reasonable exit strategy. Looking at land, EE in Gremont might be a good option. They are good people. If that is not to your liking, HUGs will happily take you in. Newlands is not far away.
------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/60249" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Steven Quincy Urpel
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2015 at 09:36
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Paranoia is a helluva drug.  ------------- They call me MISTER Urp! |
Posted By: Corwin
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2015 at 11:51
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The way I see it you can best take your loss and leave the area. Exodus all your towns. If you can find a new alliance I'm sure they'll help you with it. I don't think you want to live among people who will continue to not trust you and probably make life hard for you. Show your good will and maybe SIN will see they're wrong in the end, if they really are. I can't say I havn't got any doubts about your story. To me it all sounds a lot like how a spy would act, including this forum post. Another thing you can do is just start a new account. You know you can have 2 right? If you allready have a second account just abandon this one if exodussing is too much effort. Or make best of it and defend yourself to the end. You might learn a lot about military that way, although I think it will be a quick death for you.
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Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2015 at 12:09
| spying is a major part of this game and the game functions such as two accounts and sitting function in which anyone from any alliance is able to control an account supports it and makes it easy to do. the thing you have to realize is you got caught and now have to pay. you should have came clean with your leadship right in the beginning and perhaps the tables could have been turned..its a game and in my opinion sin is being nice to you because there is no telling what damage you have done to their alliance...i will also say this to sin alliance...omg...how did you let a spy into your group...tighten up! to the person that got caught, move and regroup and learn a lesson..to your fellow spy omg sounds like there is a double agent in your group!..this situation occurs often in this game...game on! |
Posted By: abstractdream
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2015 at 13:21
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I'm of the opinion that vital, dynamic alliances should always operate under the assumption there is a spy in the ranks. It just makes sense to maintain a certain level of caution. Players need to be aware that actions are what define us. If you are not a spy, don't act like a spy. There comes a point when a preponderance of evidence, circumstantial or not forces leadership to act. ------------- |
Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2015 at 16:08
Or just have an open alliance that has nothing to hide. Not everybody wants to play 1984 in video games. I personally find spying to be distasteful (as has been debated on other threads), but there will always be slimy people who view it as part of the game. |
abstractdream wrote:Posted By: abstractdream
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2015 at 16:14
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Your play interests go in a different direction than others'. That does not mean you're a better person for it. That sort of egocentric view naturally limits your perspective. Sure let's all have no secrets...lol ------------- |
Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2015 at 16:33
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Being a basically transparent alliance limits the damage that spies can do. From that perspective, the strategy works, independent of ethical considerations. You may consider it egocentric that I look down on spying in video games. So be it. But spying isn't a play style, it's a deliberate breach of trust among people who treat you as an online friend. The fact that it occurs in the context of a game just makes it more petty, because you are selling out a real human interaction (albeit online) for zero real gain. It's the equivalent of cheating at your weekly poker night with the guys. Can that happen? Yes. But from a social perspective it's bad form to cheat your buddies for a measly $10, and a little disturbing that it would make someone feel clever for getting away with it, in an atmosphere of trust and camaraderie. |
Posted By: Veneke
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2015 at 16:42
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In general terms spying is a thoroughly deplorable practice. I've no doubt, especially with the ability to have alternate accounts, that is is rife throughout the game. I completely agree with Bonfyr - leadership of all alliances must operate under the assumption that there is a spy in the alliance. To do otherwise is utterly reckless and does a disservice to those players who join your alliance in good faith and rely upon said leadership to ensure the safety of that alliance. I don't know the particulars of what happened here - but from what you alone have said anyone would have reason to believe that you were relaying information back to your friend in another alliance. Add to that, of all the alliances you could have found your way into the alliance you were in was SIN... it might just be poor luck. If it was, then that's really unfortunate. ------------- "May have been the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one." - Captain Malcolm Reynolds |
Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2015 at 16:46
| gosh its a silly strategy game, but usually u wipe out spies when u catch them which i am surprised sin isnt doing...but dont relate spying in a game that has features to actually encourage it to be nothing more than fair game play..thats one reason i want sitting and alts limited only within alliance....its too easy to spy in this game and you never know who you are actually chatting to within your own alliance...weak game play i call that and the reason so many use skype and offline mailing which only discourages active play in this game...otherwords too many special clubs and few groups of power brokers controlling the game....but spying is just normal play....kill the account and be done with it! |
Posted By: Bimoda
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2015 at 15:29
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Spying is there whether you want to be a part of it or not. If you are an alliance of any decent size, you will most likely have at least one spy in your midst. I've known of several in Fairy over the years and know of two currently. It's part of the game. You can choose to participate in it or not, guard against it or not. ------------- Bimoda - Dragon Fairy: Illyria Fairy Nation [FAIRY] |
Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2015 at 15:50
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A very open alliance only works if you are sure you'll never be in a war, never be fighting in a tournament and never have any information which gives you a competitive advantage over others in your game play style of choice. My experience is that most players (even those stridently self-righteous ones that talk about how disgraceful it is) are fine with spying while it's being done to someone else and especially when they are are benefiting from it. The mature folk accept it as part of the game, utilize it where they can, defend against it as best they can without letting it consume every waking moment and have fun burning spies when they get the opportunity. ------------- "This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM "a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill |
Posted By: Bimoda
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2015 at 15:58
Very well put KP.
------------- Bimoda - Dragon Fairy: Illyria Fairy Nation [FAIRY] |
Posted By: Diva
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2015 at 16:29
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FORTUNE TELLERS GOT NOTHING ON ME!! Somewhere I predicted LC wouldn't like someone/alliances in the LC ... and forcibly move them. Dear poster of thread... you ain't the only one recently to have this issue.
ps: If it was not an lc, more than likely you wouldn't have to move, just change alliances.. easy peasy.. instead of a timely exit or threat. Hmmmmm.... ------------- "Um diva.... you are sort of acting like a .... diva...." - PhoenixFire |
Posted By: Angrim
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2015 at 17:52
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Posted By: Stukahh
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2015 at 18:32
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Diva, perhaps you should check with players like MicroMe. We have worked out a very peaceful agreement to move a recently settled city within our LC. She has agreed to exodus into another part of Fellandire outside our claim. We have worked out an agreement whereby SIN has been sending her resources and supporting her work towards the lvl 20 warehouse (exodus research). There was no threats made. Just two players talking and working out a mutually satisifying resolution. With respect to King Stag. You do not know the entire story. SIN has a mountain of evidence that the player had close ties with Stomp members. Of course, we will not reveal our vetting process since it would be damaging to how we screen for spies. We reserve the right to keep potential spy accounts out. The player has sinced moved out of Felllandire into Shark hub in Newlands ( how predictable). Again, no attacks or sieges occurred. Since the SIN LC came into effect not a single account has been sieged. We have worked out all issues by diplomacy to date. We have good relations with our neighbors in BL and plan on keeping it that way.
------------- I don't always drink. But when I do, I prefer the blood of my enemies. |
Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2015 at 19:00
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Now that's funny. I was nodding my head in agreement with Poodle. I have strong suspicions that eCrow has been burned by spies on at least two different occasions. When we were getting systematically robbed by that recent thief, the majority of the attacks happened after someone was gone for a few days. That suggests the thief was inside eCrow and had access to our member list with time offline. The day that I announced in chat that I had screen captures of the thief was (to my knowledge) the last day eCrow got robbed. There was also the case of the suspicious tournament hit. Ghannima launched 85000 t1 spear troops to a vulnerable square. It was lamented in our alliance chat. She was going to recall them within moments of landing, and calculated out the landing time. Messengers were on the way. But when the troops landed, they were met within seconds by cavalry that had been launched from three regions away, destroying all the troops. No token occupying army was left behind the big hit to collect tournament points. That player never launched another army at that tournament square, and neither did his alliance. That's an odd coincidence, isn't it? Spies are distasteful, but spies happen. It's one of the few places where I see a strong ethical distinction in video games. |
Posted By: Halcyon
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2015 at 19:18
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SHARK does not know who King Stag is and never used him as anything, let alone a spy. This thread has made me more aware of the importance of espionage. If there is a spy master mind out there in the vast Illy world, please contact me post haste. It seems we need to fill this position without dealy.
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Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2015 at 19:44
| I should clarify, I don't believe eCrow's open culture should change in response to potential spies. I rather like that we aren't inclined to be paranoid like some other alliances and other games that I have played. I just agree with Poodle's comments about open cultures suffering occasional setbacks due to spies, more than I agree with Angrim's rosier conclusion. I think we've been burned occasionally, and that's just the price we pay for having an open culture. |
Posted By: Diva
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2015 at 19:54
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I am not pointing at GETTING in right now.... , and MM has no alliance, no agenda, never has, what's to fear? I'm just saying on general principle, I predicted it for whatever reason within land claims. Just tracking myself.. not looking for kudos or applause, rofl. I didn't expect any btw. ------------- "Um diva.... you are sort of acting like a .... diva...." - PhoenixFire |
Posted By: Han Dynasty
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2015 at 20:02
Is that really that bit of an amazing prediction? Generally people try to move people out of their LC is they violate it. This reminds me in the 'horror' movie "The Mist" when Mrs. Carmody predicts that another person will die in the coming night when everyone is sitting in a super vulnerable grocery store that is besieged by monsters. ------------- The official forum profile for Han Dynasty. |
Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2015 at 20:02
| gosh Halcyon; towards the end of last war several in dark empire wondered which alliance you were representing...its the reason so many dark empire vets went to crow related alliances with where we felt our loyalty would be treated likewise from their leaders...we often wondered if u were a master spy using dark empire to be a proxy alliance for some others and I not saying that means alliance.....winks....the rooster has come home to its roost...permasats are gone and multis have lost their edge advantage! building to 25 others should too! |
Posted By: Diva
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2015 at 20:06
I just don't know what to say to that twi...  ------------- "Um diva.... you are sort of acting like a .... diva...." - PhoenixFire |
Posted By: Diva
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2015 at 20:07
Within their own ranks... the LC ranks not just bystanders affected by LC's. ------------- "Um diva.... you are sort of acting like a .... diva...." - PhoenixFire |
Posted By: Halcyon
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2015 at 22:31
Gosh twi. The "so many Dark empire vets" who went to Crows were actually just 1: Kompanion and he went to the Crows because he was angry with me for allowing you to join our training alliance. He was sure you'll do more damage than good. 'nough said.
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Posted By: king stag
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2015 at 22:52
Predictable? You force a new player to move all of his cities in BL at the same time that his friend is moving cities into BL. Hope you didn't strain your brain too hard to make that prediction. I'm not sure if issuing an ultimatum like "move your cities or we'll destroy them" can be called diplomacy.
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