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What Do You Think of the 10 Square Rule?

Printed From: Illyriad
Category: The World
Forum Name: Politics & Diplomacy
Forum Description: If you run an alliance on Elgea, here's where you should make your intentions public.
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=6180
Printed Date: 17 Apr 2022 at 04:15
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Topic: What Do You Think of the 10 Square Rule?
Posted By: Artefore
Subject: What Do You Think of the 10 Square Rule?
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2015 at 08:07
What are your thoughts on the 10 square rule?  Leave a reply expressing your take.  

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"don't quote me on that" -Artefore



Replies:
Posted By: auel
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2015 at 08:17
I think that these questions can usually be settled very amicably with the application of a little common sense and mutual respect.  I do actually have a very close neighbour who has never been a problem to me. However I reserve the absolute right to say no and expect my view to be respected without quibbles.


Posted By: Azrile
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2015 at 08:29
Well, since so many vet players think it is a hard rule, then it has to be spread to new players as a ´rule´.  

My personal thought is that there should never be a rule like this that is ´preached´ as a rule because it takes away the conflict and resource part of the game.  Is the resources nearby worth the risk of offending that player?    Is that player even active enough to care?  If they do care, are they strong enough, or have any desire to start a conflict over it.  Those questions should be the bread-n-butter of a game like this.  The more socially acceptable rules that are in place, the more farmville this becomes.

When you make it a rule then the vast majority are going to side with the person who was there first, since, well, that is the rule.  Without a rule in case, then each side gets to make a case for the spot on equal footing and you create a much more organic atmosphere.

TLDR -  The more black and white socially acceptable rules there are, the more boring the game becomes.


Posted By: Jejune
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2015 at 09:37
I think that it also depends on whether you're playing in the BL or Elgea. Down in the BL, there is still so much space that there should still be enough opportunities to find the kinds of squares you're looking for to settle a city without it encroaching on someone else. In Elgea, however, that may no longer be the case.

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https://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/394156" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Albatross
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2015 at 11:14
Given recent changes, the relevance of this question might be different in about a year or two: 10 squares might be difficult to enforce. Will there ever be a time where a new settlement has to just 'squeeze in' to be somewhere near a useful place?

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Posted By: Gragnog
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2015 at 12:01
I voted "Do whatever, I dont care". There is no 10 square rule and you can do whatever you like, as long as you are able to back up you position. If you do not want people within 10 squares of you you must be willing to push them out or raze them and thus enforce your own 10 square rule or your alliance wishes. If you are not willing to fight for it or it does not bother you, then there is no rule.


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Kaggen is my human half


Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2015 at 12:05
I appreciate the automatic system buffer of 10 squares. It is always an individual's option to let a player approach closer.


Posted By: Hora
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2015 at 23:54
I went with the mayority of the voters... if the first player at a certain place has the power/allies/etc. to enforce a 10 square rule, common logic tells you to ask nicely before ploughing across the lawn...

Automatic settlement is out of this question, of course. Here I expect mutual respect and a bit of common sense of BOTH players to work it out


Posted By: Dragonwort
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2015 at 12:26
[QUOTE=Azrile 

My personal thought is that there should never be a rule like this that is ´preached´ as a rule because it takes away the conflict and resource part of the game.  Is the resources nearby worth the risk of offending that player?    Is that player even active enough to care?  If they do care, are they strong enough, or have any desire to start a conflict over it.  Those questions should be the bread-n-butter of a game like this.  The more socially acceptable rules that are in place, the more farmville this becomes.

When you make it a rule then the vast majority are going to side with the person who was there first, since, well, that is the rule.  Without a rule in case, then each side gets to make a case for the spot on equal footing and you create a much more organic atmosphere.

Even the game mechanics treat this as a rule since you cannot exodus or tenaril within 10 square of another player, so it is NOT just a "preached rule". There are plenty of wargames to play for the easily bored and teens with nothing but time to play. Illy doesn't need to become another one.Wink Dragonwort



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Just another wrench in the works..


Posted By: jcx
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2015 at 14:08
dang, I miss to read the bottom 2. 

what's important, is that whenever you are being siege, you can move atleast 2 squares away from your original spot. :)

My final vote: Do whatever, I don't care.



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Disclaimer: The above is jcx|orcboy's personal opinion and is not the opinion or policy of Harmless? [H?] or of the little green men that have been following him all day.

jcx in H? | orcboy in H?


Posted By: Endrok
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2015 at 15:42
I voted for option 3: If you ask nicely before settling/moving close I'll let you.
But only because it was the closest. There is no guarantee that just because you asked nicely that 'I'll let you' .... but the chances are pretty good that I would!  It really depends on the square and any valuable resources close by.

My views on settlement are on my profile so there shouldn't be any shocks
1 - 10 squares:   Settlement will be NOT permitted unless by prior agreement. Within 5 squares approval is highly unlikely!

10 squares isn't usually going to be a problem, but 5 squares is almost always going to be a no.  
Just not enough room for both cities to claim sov.





Posted By: Albatross
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2015 at 16:02
I agree with Endrok: it's a balanced view.

There's a related situation I find interesting: when a new settlement appears within your closely-guarded 5-square area. There are ways a mature town can help avoid it, BUT once it has happened, and the player is growing, what would you do?

I've tended towards this approach:
1. Say hello, tell them I'm a nice neighbour and offer help with resources.
2. Claim all the sovereign territory that I think I'll definitely need, then drop them a note to say they're quite unlucky to have spawned next to a large city, and they might want to move it somewhere better (and starting plots are usually not much good anyway).

This is entirely polite and relatively non-aggressive, but I do worry that such players might opt to leave the game rather than continue.


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Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2015 at 16:22
That doesn't seem to be "relatively non-aggressive". I seem to recall a similar situation sparking a war. If you don't like new players arriving near you, I suggest moving out of the new player ring, or claiming all your sov in advance. Claiming in reaction to a new arrival puts armies in motion, and the mail makes it very clear that you want them gone. Nothing polite about that, really, regardless of how you frame it.


Posted By: Albatross
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2015 at 16:25
Perhaps the other situation involved a more established player who had emotionally invested in the town, and had joined an alliance. My situation involved someone at population below 10.

Edit: a situation where they can just start again without significant loss.


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Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2015 at 19:28
I concur that the war situation was different. However, I think a new player might be intimidated by a big player sending encampments near their city, claiming the land, and suggesting they move.


Posted By: Dragonwort
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2015 at 01:41
I've had experience with a similar situation....twice the long Exodus times to Broken Lands have afforded a newer player the opportunity settle what would be within the 10 square area of an exodus city after landing.

They were there first and had legal claim but both times I was able to arbitrate between the exodus city player and the new settler. I may have just been lucky to find really nice new settlers but both times the settlers let me find them a better spot (experience counts. . lol..), help them with resources to their next pop level; they then settled in the new spot, and let the original city be razed...(after the exodus landed, of course). I also offered compensation...crafted,resource, and/or monetary which both refused. This might also work in the situation mentioned here. It's a bit of work but well worth it to make two players happy.Big smile Dragonwort


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Just another wrench in the works..


Posted By: Albatross
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2015 at 12:51
I expect we'll be seeing more of this in practice, in the long-term future:
http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/Alliance/Alliance/1323" rel="nofollow - http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/Alliance/Alliance/1323
(Arti's new alliance: policy)

It will be interesting to see how this works out strategically and tactically, and if it opens up more options in the game.


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Posted By: Hora
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2015 at 15:50
Originally posted by Albatross Albatross wrote:

I expect we'll be seeing more of this in practice, in the long-term future:
http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/Alliance/Alliance/1323" rel="nofollow - http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/Alliance/Alliance/1323
(Arti's new alliance: policy)

It will be interesting to see how this works out strategically and tactically, and if it opens up more options in the game.

...placing towns as near as 3 squares without asking permission (as the alliance profile above states) is completely NONSENSE, given the so far results of this poll!

Just ask, maybe haggle a bit, offer to not touch the sov inbetween, etc... and you will most likely be able to settle there PLUS have a friendly neighbour.

If Anyone, just to proof a principle, pops up right next to me, I'll ask him to move on, also to proof a principle... even on places I would have let him settle if he had asked!


Posted By: Berde
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2015 at 19:01
You're more generous than I am, Hora. Were someone to pop up as near as 3 squares to me without asking, I'd likely straight up siege without warning. If I'm feeling kind I'l reimburse them for the settlers.



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