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What do you think of Centrum Visibility

Printed From: Illyriad
Category: Miscellaneous
Forum Name: Suggestions & Game Enhancements
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URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=6118
Printed Date: 17 Apr 2022 at 13:00
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Topic: What do you think of Centrum Visibility
Posted By: Berde
Subject: What do you think of Centrum Visibility
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2015 at 01:21
There's been a lot of grumbling from folks I talk to about the change that allowes everyone to see the prices from Centrum everywhere. Discussion of it making Centrum even more ingrained, discussion that seeing prices at Centrum stifles the markets in other regional hubs.

What's your take on it?



Replies:
Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2015 at 01:26
Far and away the worst trade 'feature' in the game. This makes it impossible to easily see local orders arranged by price, because Centrum has so many more orders than everywhere else. I would love to know what the devs were thinking on this one, since it created so much visual clutter for active traders.


Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2015 at 02:23
I'm ambivalent.  Not all that happy about all the Centrum orders clogging my screen, but it is useful for cities that don't have traders in Centrum.

Perhaps it could be made optional?  Like an "everywhere but Centrum" option?


Posted By: Stonerman
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2015 at 02:33
personally, being able to see centrum from all my towns has caused me more than a few annoyances. buying things from my towns when i mean to do a hub to hub transaction because i wasnt paying attention to what town i had focus on, can cause quite a scare when you have to take a second to find out where that mountain of gold in your town that was feeding a mass of troops went

as well as the monopoly now in place, now availability in an area has absolutely no meaning. at least before the local markets would get by with a few trades to the people who didnt have a trader in centrum (even if just a few people) but now if you buy locally your doing a favor


Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2015 at 02:58
Since the main point of the increased visibility of Centrum was to assist players in the new player ring, maybe make Centrum have an extra-wide but not complete visibility?  Like anyone within 300 squares can see Centrum? or 500 squares?  Not sure how easy this would be to code or whether it would address concerns.


Posted By: hrandjt
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2015 at 02:59
I think that making Centrum visible to everyone in the newbie circle is important but I do not like the way it was implemented at all.

I would have much rather that they had increased the visibility radius of the marketplace such that someone in the newbie circle with a few levels (5-10) in their market place could see Centrum.


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Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2015 at 03:24
That's a good suggestion, maybe increase the base visibility for all hubs.  Or increase the multiplier for each level.


Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2015 at 03:52
Delete the feature. Add a new Centrum item on the drop down list of All Visible Hubs, All Visible Towns. Problem solved.


Posted By: Gragnog
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2015 at 07:40
Down with it. If you want to trade in Centrum move closer to it. It does put the other hubs at a disadvantage and does not really help a new player because they will not be using a hub until they settled and playing anyway and then they will have the ability to send out traders and buy and sell anyway thus making them not-a-nood.


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Kaggen is my human half


Posted By: Corwin
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2015 at 08:33
If you want to see orders in centrum send a trader to it. I know, newer players don't have a trader yet, but if they are still that small they can get enough goods from friendly players nearby and they definately won't need advanced items at that point, so everything they need can be gained by city to city trade. 

It's ridiculous you can see offers from centrum from towns in broken lands. It's probably the biggest reason why tradehubs there are still very quiet. There are no newbies in broken lands so there is absolutely no need for towns there to see centrum offers.   


Posted By: Jejune
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2015 at 09:57
No one here has talked from the position of buyers; only as sellers and the inconveniences that Centrum causes them. The reason why I think the devs conceived of this was also because Centrum still remains the only hub in the game where you can buy almost anything; most other hubs offer paltry selections. This is particularly true in the BL. To me, the game has still yet to embrace full-scale trading in local/regional hubs due to the dominance of the Wal Mart-like Centrum.

That, I'm not saying that I like Centrum being available to everyone. It's just that I understand the thinking. 

I have a better idea for encouraging local trading in the hubs: put an X-month moratorium on trading in Centrum. If there were no buy/sell orders there for a period of time, it would force players and alliances to sell their wares in the local shop.



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Posted By: IbnSenna
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2015 at 13:35
Or making Centrum a global info center, with no local trade: Centrum would display max, average, min prices (for both buy and sell offers) for every item…

Let the actual traders find the right mix between global market trends, proximity, availability… and discover where the best bargains lie, on their own?


Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2015 at 14:11
As an aside, I think Broken Lands has quiet hubs because 90% of the cities there are existing players who just ship themselves items directly from Elgea. Those hubs were quiet before everyone could see Centrum.


Posted By: Berde
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2015 at 15:10
Originally posted by Jejune Jejune wrote:

...Centrum still remains the only hub in the game where you can buy almost anything; most other hubs offer paltry selections. This is particularly true in the BL...

I know that in my case, at least, I haven't bothered trying to sell much of anything other than Centrum because I haven't seen many buy orders for the kinds of things I've harvested. Sure, I could put my wares up and hope that I don't pay a boatload of taxes on things that are going to sit there for months...

Maybe if the point of the whole Centrum Visibility thing was to help new players - maybe coding could be changed that so only towns under 1K pop (or pick a random number that you like) are able to see Centrum without having a trader there? Even without having a trader in Centrum, knowing the prices of things was useful to help decide what I should bother to gather, but at the time I had to pester my alliance mates to look them up until I could get a trader ;)


Posted By: Stonerman
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2015 at 15:48
Originally posted by Jejune Jejune wrote:

No one here has talked from the position of buyers.

 


I cant really think of any other views a buyer would have other than getting his good as cheaply as possible, in that case this is an ideal situation 


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Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2015 at 16:14
My original post was from the perspective of a buyer. When I want bulk resources for prestige building, I don't want all the Centrum offers cluttering up my local trade visibility. I want to be able to sort nearby orders by price.

I believe the same effect is making it slower to get my town buy orders accepted, as nearby players who would sell to me now have a harder time to spot my town buy order in the Centrum pile.


Posted By: Count Rupert
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2015 at 17:34
Originally posted by Brandmeister Brandmeister wrote:

My original post was from the perspective of a buyer. When I want bulk resources for prestige building, I don't want all the Centrum offers cluttering up my local trade visibility. I want to be able to sort nearby orders by price.

I believe the same effect is making it slower to get my town buy orders accepted, as nearby players who would sell to me now have a harder time to spot my town buy order in the Centrum pile.

I'm not sure I see a problem here.  You can already sort by what's important to you.  If it's distance over price, sort by the distance from the town accessing the market and you'll see all the nearby orders to that town.

I disagree that same effect is making it slower to get your orders accepted.  What's making it slower is your desire to pay as little as possible for the goods you want.  Otherwise Centrum prices wouldn't be interfering with your visibility as your offers would near the top of the page even with Centrum "clutter".  Granted it's something all buyers want to do just as sellers want to get the best price for their wares.  That perceived harder time to spot your offers may be more a result from the seller now seeing higher priced buy offers than yours than whether they could find yours among the "clutter".


Posted By: Belegar Ironhammer
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2015 at 17:50
I dislike the Centrum visibility, mainly because my buy orders keep getting filled by players who are absurd distances away and I end up waiting 4 or 5 days for the goods to arrive. Quick trading was a benefit of the hubs. Centrum visibility everywhere hurts that a lot. 


Posted By: Solanar
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2015 at 18:35
I dislike it as well. On the one hand, if you're only going to bother with one trader, Centrum is the one to have, on the other, wasn't the whole point to create regional trade rather than universally visible buy and sell orders based from peoples cities?

I find I frequently purchase from who is closest rather than who is cheapest, personally, but in general if I want something, I want it now - and spending extra gold is easier than spending extra prestige.


Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2015 at 19:32
@Count Rupert: What I want is nearby orders (within my local trade radius), sorted by price. Which is exactly what I had before this feature. Now sorting by distance alone jumbles up the prices; now sorting by price alone mixes in Centrum bids from 1000 squares away.

Regarding my posted town buy orders, I follow the same pattern I always have: bidding approximately Centrum prices for local orders. Since the feature was enacted, I perceive that it takes 3 times as long to get orders filled, with no other change in buying habits.

@Belegar: Many of my Centrum buy and sell orders are filled from a considerable distance, even before this new visibility feature arrived. That hasn't changed much for me, I guess.


Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2015 at 20:19
As someone who sells basic resources, I don't know why you have the expectation that you will be able to pay trade hub prices for me to use my vans to deliver the goods (which is a big difference from the hub, where you have to pick stuff up).

Perhaps you live in an area where there are a lot of local sellers of basic resources, but usually I don't ship basics more than 200 squares away for less than 1 gold per unit.  It's just not worth wasting my caravan carrying time.

For basic resource city orders, what you're paying for is the convenience of having caravans deliver, so if you ever had the experience of paying hub order prices for city to city delivery of basics, that wouldn't be consistent with my general experience of trade in basics.

As a seller of basics, I'd rather ship stuff to my local hubs for indefinite storage than ship them 500 squares for less than 1 gold per unit.  With or without Centrum visibility.


Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2015 at 20:34
It offers sellers a way to dispose of excess basics in a quick local order. Much more convenient than shipping to Centrum. The local hubs in the desert seem less active, but I would be happy to fetch my own resources from a nearby hub sell order, if they existed.


Posted By: Dungshoveleux
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2015 at 23:01
Centrum has almost total dominance and that is bad for other hubs.
But the main problem is that there just aren't enough traders or demand for crafted items to make trading a worthwhile exercise.  Most people have figured out that it is better just to equip commanders and just build more military units rather than equip the whole unit with crafted gear.
My 2c.


Posted By: Angrim
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2015 at 23:10
Originally posted by Jejune Jejune wrote:

The reason why I think the devs conceived of this was also because Centrum still remains the only hub in the game where you can buy almost anything; most other hubs offer paltry selections.
while it was not the cause, the special treatment Centrum receives from the game certainly exacerbates this problem. why list in the local hubs when i can have universal exposure at Centrum?


Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2015 at 03:21
@Angrim: Why list in local hubs? Because proximity offers convenience. Centrum will always be the main bazaar for crafted items because they are small and easy to transport. To a certain extent Centrum will also dominate advanced resource transactions. Bulk building materials are better to acquire in local hubs because the volume is large, requiring many transports, and the distance is a significant factor unless prestige is involved.

To be clear, my complaint here is not the dominance of Centrum (as others have stated). My grievance is that adding permanent Centrum visibility screwed up a valuable function of the Markets screen--the ability to sort by price while viewing only hubs and towns within a particular city's local trade radius. It was a function I used often when purchasing basic resources and selling excess food to my neighbors.


Posted By: Diva
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2015 at 18:12
I only have a trader in Centrum, to compare prices basically to service a few other hubs. Prices from visible TOWNS are extremely higher than trader hubs, so obviously one uses the trader hubs. I would purchase more if they were available in any hub closer to me the items that Centrum has. I think CENTRUM should be available for the newbie circles for basics before they move.. they learn to USE hubs in this sense.
I liked the idea someone mentioned that Centrum offer comparison prices in other hubs for those not near Centrum and leave Centrum for the local players vision for purchase, i.e. not near Centrum a few hundred squares, you won't be able to buy from Centrum but you see the items in visible hubs near you. Stop the monopoly Centrum has.
2cents less.


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"Um diva.... you are sort of acting like a .... diva...." - PhoenixFire


Posted By: Myzel
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2015 at 22:11
I think Centrum visibility was the right decision. Let's be honest, the entire hub trade system is a failed experiment. It has left us with the same thing we had before, a global market space, but one that was needlessly complicated to gain access to. 

The devs seem to realize this, and thankfully they rectified it by giving everyone access to Centrum, and the ability to fulfill orders. An essential step to make the game more accessible to new players, who have enough on their plate without having to figure out all the convoluted steps in this glaring failure of a trade system.

The minor inconvenience some players have in viewing local orders doesn't weigh up to that necessity.


Posted By: Lwyllyn
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2015 at 18:37
I posted a reply to "Trade in Hedgor's Haven". The same points I made there, and have seen made in some of the responses to this thread, can be found     http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/trade-in-hedgors-haven_topic6129.html#84645" rel="nofollow - Here http://here./" rel="nofollow - .     


Posted By: Berde
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2015 at 19:11
Thank Devs for listening! I guess this topic can probably be closed and/or moved to "Implemented"


Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2015 at 19:25
Yes, the update to Centrum visibility was much appreciated. It has made local purchasing easier again.



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