Combat on Buildings terrain
Printed From: Illyriad
Category: Strategies, Guides & Help
Forum Name: General Questions
Forum Description: If your gameplay question isn't answered in the help files, please post it here.
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=6105
Printed Date: 17 Apr 2022 at 18:42 Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Combat on Buildings terrain
Posted By: Whistlemist
Subject: Combat on Buildings terrain
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2015 at 06:09
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I'm thinking of putting a settlement next to a square described as: Ruined Tower [Buildings].
What are the bonuses and penalties for different combat units when fighting on terrain described as [Buildings]? Which are the best units for [Buildings] combat? I'm thinking that my general military strategy, which is evolving around combat in mountains, could be undone by this square (all other squares around it are mountains and hills).
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Replies:
Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2015 at 07:20
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Spears are best for defending buildings; infantry are best for attacking them. Cavalry takes a big penalty in buildings.
Usually a city next to buildings terrain will be sieged first, since sieges are even easier from buildings than from mountains (unless you are sieging a dwarf with a lot of dwarf friends nearby). Ranged units have a bonus in buildings, but not as much as defending spears or defending or attacking infantry.
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Posted By: Anjire
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2015 at 07:44
Whistlemist wrote:
I'm thinking of putting a settlement next to a square described as: Ruined Tower [Buildings].
What are the bonuses and penalties for different combat units when fighting on terrain described as [Buildings]? Which are the best units for [Buildings] combat? I'm thinking that my general military strategy, which is evolving around combat in mountains, could be undone by this square (all other squares around it are mountains and hills). |
*Terrain bonuses attached to the bottom
Of note is the fact that despite the terrain description, ranged units receive a substantial bonus when attacking on building terrain.
Attack: Sword > bow > spear > cavalry Defense: Spear > bow > infantry > cavalry
Illyriad is a game of rock/paper/scissors in the sense that while there might technically be a best unit for a terrain, there is an equally best unit to counter that specific unit. So, despite the above surface observation the biggest factor will be what is the make up of the forces you will be combating.
vs. spear defense: Attack with bows // vs. bow defense: Attack with cavalry // vs. a combined defense: Attack with Swords //
| OFFENSE | Spearman | Ranged | Infantry | Cavalry | | Plains | -15 | 0 | 0 | 30 | | Small Forest | 10 | -10 | 30 | -10 | | Large Forest | 5 | -15 | 25 | -15 | | Buildings | 15 | 20 | 25 | -30 | | Small Hill | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | | Large Hill | 5 | 20 | 0 | -15 | | Small Mountain | 5 | 0 | -10 | -20 | | Large Mountain | 10 | 25 | -20 | -30 |
| DEFENSE | Spearman | Ranged | Infantry | Cavalry | | Plains | -15 | 0 | 0 | 25 | | Small Forest | 10 | -15 | 30 | -10 | | Large Forest | 5 | -20 | 25 | -15 | | Buildings | 25 | 15 | 20 | -30 | | Small Hill | 5 | 5 | 5 | 0 | | Large Hill | 10 | 10 | 0 | -15 | | Small Mountain | 15 | 15 | 0 | -15 | | Large Mountain | 20 | 30 | 0 | -30
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------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/26125" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Whistlemist
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2015 at 07:59
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That's a great chart Anjire - thanks for sharing it. Where do you find stuff like that? There's nothing like it in the beginners help pages that I could find.
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Posted By: Anjire
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2015 at 08:07
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A large number of players have it posted on their profile.
I think a few alliances might have it as well or a link to where it can be found.
I would suggest this http://www.puzzleslogic.com/illy/home.html" rel="nofollow - site as well for some good charts/information regarding Illyriad basics.
------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/26125" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Whistlemist
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2015 at 08:47
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Studying the chart, it seems a city on a large mountain next to a building is not so bad for an elf with lots of archers. The siegers seem to have a problem with deciding on the best troops for such a situation. Infantry - great in the building, but huge penalty attacking the mountain. A spear heavy army will have the poor defense against ranged problem. Sieging archers defend a building a lot less well than they defend a mountain seiging square. I think I'm quite happy being on a mountain next to a building with an army of archers.
Looking at the chart, being sieged from a mountain looks like a bigger problem, if the sieging army uses all or mostly ranged units with the mountain defensive bonus. Perhaps a 100% ranged unit sieging army may be harder to assemble?
A related question: Can many players form one army to place on a sieging square, or can only one player occupy a sieging square, limiting the number of players that can siege a city to 8?
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Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2015 at 09:58
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An unlimited number of players can reinforce the square, but only one player can be actually sieging from a square.
Typically a serious siege will consist of several blockades and one or more sieges.
Honestly, a city surrounded by mountains and a building would be a dream to siege. Having it be on a mountain would be a negative. It would be possible to defend such a city, but I would anticipate having heavy losses on both sides.
I think there might have been a city like that in the last war -- Praetor Augustus's city maybe? The city did not fall, but a lot of troops died on both sides. I was not personally involved in that one though, so someone else would have to confirm my recollection about whether it was a mountain surrounded by mountains.
By the way, in that situation as a sieger I'd make my decision about whether to siege from mountains or buildings based on my opponent. If it were an elf, I'd put something in the buildings square, probably defended by a mix of spears, bows and t1 infantry. If it were a dwarf, I'd avoid the buildings and stick everything on the mountains. Of course, the dwarf could have fooled me by building crossbows. It is helpful to know the likely makeup of the armies of nearby defenders in these situations.
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Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2015 at 12:46
Any worthwhile siege will overwhelm the defender's whole account by 5:1 (the ratio varies, but you get the gist). It will be the forces of 10+ players against your one lonely account and city.
Mountains are wonderful to defend (and thus wonderful for sieges). If I had to face a fortress where the city terrain was mountains, I would consider just destroying it to 0 population. If there were any defenders inside the city, it could be very expensive to storm and raze.
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Posted By: Whistlemist
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2015 at 08:57
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I think I'm really getting the idea that if you've got anything worth taking or someone simply doesn't like you, you'll survive outside an alliance only by luck. Thanks for all the wisdom of experience!
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Posted By: Jejune
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2015 at 09:27
Whistlemist wrote:
I think I'm really getting the idea that if you've got anything worth taking or someone simply doesn't like you, you'll survive outside an alliance only by luck. Thanks for all the wisdom of experience! |
Hiya Whistlemist. Honestly, I really don't think that's the case. In fact, when it comes to being sieged, I'd say that being in an alliance is actually more likely to get you sieged, since if the alliance you are in gets into a war, your city might be chosen simply by virtue of the fact that it sits next to terrain that is favorable to defend (alla buildings or mountains). This isn't to say that non-affiliated players never get sieged, but my experience tells me that those who are sieged are usually gc trolls of the worst kind. If you're just minding your own business, you're most likely not going to wake up one day and see a siege army rolling into your back yard.
Also, regarding building your city next to buildings, I wouldn't do it. Yeah, they look cool, but as you can see from the chart above, it's no secret that they afford optimal terrain bonuses to bows and infantry. Recently in our current war we sieged from a building and had fabulous kill ratios in defending the siege. A best practice is to make sure your city is surrounded by plains, since cavalry work optimally on plains and can really chop down a siege.
Best of luck to you in your endeavors.
------------- https://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/394156" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2015 at 13:11
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Unaffiliated players are very unlikely to fall under attack in Illyriad, as long as they respect conventions like the 10 square rule and harvesting rights. There is minimal value to attacking cities for resources in this game.
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Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2015 at 20:10
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The discussions we're having are hypothetical. We're talking about what COULD happen. In fact, it's very unlikely to happen.
Defense against sieges is one factor to consider when placing a city, but there are a lot of other ones as well. Most players go through years in Illy without being sieged.
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Posted By: Whistlemist
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2015 at 12:32
All good food for thought. Thanks for the detailed replies!
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Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2015 at 15:34
Rill wrote:
Most players go through years in Illy without being sieged. |
Unless nCrow decide they settled in the wrong place.
------------- "This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM
"a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill
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Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2015 at 18:21
KillerPoodle wrote:
Rill wrote:
Most players go through years in Illy without being sieged. |
Unless nCrow decide they settled in the wrong place.
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I don't recall a situation in which nCrow has sieged a player for settling in the wrong place. In fact, nCrow has a long track record of coexisting peacefully with neighbors.
There was one situation in which a leader of nCrow rashly sent a siege to a player who had settled on a square that he had marked with a nearby army indicating he intended to settle there. The sieges were recalled, that leader was demoted and left nCrow. We apologized to the player, who apparently did not hold the situation against us because about a year later he decided to join our alliance.
I do recall a player, Malpherion, who left VIC and joined Harmless? because he was in a dispute with a player over cities that had been settled near him. VIC would not allow him to siege the player over a settlement dispute, but Harmless? approved those sieges.
So in terms of sieging players because one has decided they settled in the wrong place, I think KillerPoodle may be confused in his characterization of which alliances do this.
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Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2015 at 18:23
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I'd also like to add that both of the situations described above are quite rare, which goes to my original point that the vast majority of Illy players go through their entire Illy lives without being sieged.
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Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2015 at 22:50
I think Rill left her sense of humour at home today.
------------- "This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM
"a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill
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Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2015 at 23:29
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I beg your pardon, I didn't realize you were joking.
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