Harvesting Rudeness
Printed From: Illyriad
Category: The World
Forum Name: Politics & Diplomacy
Forum Description: If you run an alliance on Elgea, here's where you should make your intentions public.
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=5744
Printed Date: 17 Apr 2022 at 04:31
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Harvesting Rudeness
Posted By: LadyLuvs
Subject: Harvesting Rudeness
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2014 at 18:13
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I have had it! I am posting this for all of Illy to see. I am no longer going to just bump players off my sov for harvesting without permission. From here on out, you harvest on my sov without permission I will kill your harvesters without additional warning or apology afterwards. I have had my sov repeatedly violated recently. I am no longer going to be nice and understanding! All of Illy is now warned, your harvesters will die and you will get nothing from me to replace them. I soved the spots so I do not have to keep armies on them. I pay for that spot every single hour! STAY OFF MY SOV!!!!! LadyLuvs ------------- LadyLuvs Raven, Murder of Crows Alliance |
Replies:
Posted By: Pellinell
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2014 at 18:30
| LOL Luvs you are to generous. I have always killed players on my sov |
Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2014 at 20:11
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Are you really suggesting that you're willing to pay hundreds of gold per hour to sov the squares, but cannot spare an extra 1 gold/hour to garrison the resource? I'm not saying that harvesting on sov isn't rude. But it's such an easily and inexpensively solved problem that I don't know why people have it in the first place. Or I should say, I don't know of a good reason why people have it in the first place. Post a guard. Problem solved. |
Posted By: Angrim
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2014 at 22:00
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posting a guard makes sense for herbs, as they can be destroyed by the careless or malicious harvester. for the rest, it's less the cost in gold than the cost in time and trouble. |
Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2014 at 23:30
| Mines can't be destroyed, so it hardly seems worth the headache to kill miners. I garrison my Iceheart only to prevent some goofball from sticking an army there and trying to claim it by force (and also to stop my 171 miners from getting eaten by polar bears). But if my armies lapsed and some rakish brigand snuck in and rustled some Iceheart, I don't think I'd have a hostile reaction, just a rueful chuckle. |
Posted By: Pellinell
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2014 at 23:35
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I am referring to harvesting within 10 squares in general. Outside 10 squares put troops sure. But if a player puts troops within my 10 squares or harvests without my permission they lose their troops/harvesters. |
Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2014 at 23:36
| Yeah, the only time this really bothers me is if 1) someone else tries to park an army on my sov (rude, just rude) or 2) if they send more herbalists than my rare herb patch has, thus threatening to over-harvest it. Grrr! But that rarely happens. |
Posted By: Ryklaw
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2014 at 00:51
I respect each person's right to their own opinion. Since I am arrogant, I believe you also have a right to my opinion...  Here is what I post on my profile... Harvesting Code of Conduct: 1) You are welcome to harvest any resource near my towns. No sense it going to waste. If my harvesters get off their lazy butts and decide to do something, they may bump you. If your harvesters bring an army, my harvesters may bring an army. 2) Outside of my territory, my harvesters might be found gathering whatever is not occupied. Never will they intentionally bump someone who is already harvesting although it has occasionally happened because of timing, stupidity, or inebriation. 3) If you have any conflict with my harvesters, just let me know. I will gladly send you the harvest. I prefer my harvesters out working for you instead of sitting at the tavern drinking my beer. 4) This is a game. If mutilating my cotter/skinner/etc. with your army adds to your enjoyment of the game, go ahead, I really don't mind. 5) If you claim that soveriegnty, 100 X 100 squares, phase of the moon, bad movie reviews, psychological problems, lost pets, or a nasty disposition gives you an exclusive right to allow an unharvested plot to simply rot away, please refer to Code #3 or #4. ------------- Finishing the Race! II Tim 4:7,8 |
Posted By: jcx
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2014 at 02:41
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If it isn't blue.. then don't harvest on it.. Simple! ------------- Disclaimer: The above is jcx|orcboy's personal opinion and is not the opinion or policy of Harmless? [H?] or of the little green men that have been following him all day. jcx in H? | orcboy in H? |
Posted By: Pellinell
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2014 at 03:47
| +1 |
Posted By: LadyLuvs
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2014 at 04:12
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Brandmeister one of the spots is a grape patch the square NEXT to my city! I find that outrageous and completely disrespectful that you would send your harvesters RIGHT NEXT to another player's city and harvest their resources. I shouldn't have to have an army on that patch!!!!! It is NEXT to my city. Say what you like but is some player came next to your city and was harvesting you would be irritated. I should not have to pay per hour for gold and have to put an army on a spot NEXT to my city. That is completely ridiculous!! The other spot is within my 10 squares and should not have to be guarded either. I would never dream of harvesting on another player's sov. If you are a wise player you will leave the sov indicator on and make dang sure you stay away from the sov spots. You can also read that the spot belong to a player!! How does a player miss that a player is soving that spot? Disrespectful and rude. I am paying for the spot that makes it mine. Think of it this way; if you bought a car and some random stranger got in it while you were standing in the garage and started taking things out of it, would you be so passive about it then? I would hope to heck not! ------------- LadyLuvs Raven, Murder of Crows Alliance |
Posted By: abstractdream
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2014 at 05:09
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Yea, I agree. Harvesting on someone else's sov is rude and warrants a kill. I don't think armies need to be posted on sov and it just isn't practical. More than the cost, those commanders can be doing something else. Sovereignty is ownership but now and then you need to get out the shotgun and run off the idiot kids vandalizing your stuff. ------------- |
Posted By: Epidemic
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2014 at 06:05
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I don't understand this concept of thinking you automatically own everything within your 10x10. Players must be getting it confused with the 10x10 rule for city placements. As long as I can remember its always been 10x10 for city placement and 5x5 exclusive zone for sov, harvesting and armies. This 10x10 exclusive zone for everything makes no sense. There are very few cities on the map that don't have their 10x10 overlapping several other players. Plot it out on a map and you'll see how a 10x10 harvesting,armies,sov rule is just plain silly. |
Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2014 at 06:05
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This complaint repeats itself constantly. Should people harvest on sov? Probably not. Do people harvest on sov? Obviously, because I've been hearing the same complaint for two years. Real life metaphors about cars are irrelevant--this is a video game, and people are not beholden to real world standards of behavior. I post guards, and I have never had this problem. Being a practical guy, I am more concerned with the result (not having problems with unwanted harvesters) than I am with questions of meta-game philosophy (should sov be viewed as an exclusive claim to rare resources?). My policy of not killing harvesters is from the same vein of thought: I am uninterested in chancing a pointless fight with some belligerent dipstick over her dead miners, when I can easily remove that possibility with a 1 gold/hr militia unit. |
Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2014 at 08:22
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omg. You are such a better person than me... |
Posted By: LadyLuvs
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2014 at 14:24
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Brand you are in the minority here apparently. I am glad you can be so passive about it. I have had repeated issues with one player and now an issue with one that was impatient for a response to an email. Those players are from 2 branches of an alliance. That is disrespect. They need to teach their players better. Epidemic your opinion has ceased to matter to me from very long ago due to your whiny pettiness. Regardless of those that tolerate you, I find you exhaustively arrogant and if it isn't your way of doing things, it is wrong. You pick out things to whine about that are not even on topic of what is being discussed. I am not interested in anything you have to say on any matter. Please move along and have a nice day. Rikoo you can lock this thread if you like. I am not looking for approval or a discussion for this. This was just to state what will happen from now on. Thanks!
------------- LadyLuvs Raven, Murder of Crows Alliance |
Posted By: auel
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2014 at 15:11
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I would have though good manners would call for a prompt response to messages sent in good faith and perhaps even a private approach to the leadership of the alliances concerned, before going into GC and the forum. However, as you are the known expert, I must of course defer to you in such matters of good taste. Kind regards Josiah |
Posted By: Dungshoveleux
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2014 at 17:53
| My experience of harvesting is that disagreements arise rarely which for me is around once per 3 month. I admit to being an opportunist harvester yet very few players have ever reacted negatively. If I see people harvesting "on my turf", I can just scout them and then decide to bump them or not. Most times I will simply scout and mail the player but again in the last 6 months I've mailed twice only. I've lost harvesters in the past to other people's over protective nature but that's harvesting (and people) for you. I don't have enough armies to keep watch over everything nor do I even try except maybe for something rare or special such as elemental salts. So in short, let them harvest or bump them or mail them. Let's face it, the resources regenerate so if they're not being harvested, the production is "lost" anyway because there are maximum levels of resource. |
Posted By: GM Rikoo
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2014 at 18:08
No, the thread is well behaved, other than this post. No reason to lock a thread that has a decent discussion going in it. If it ever gets out of hand, I will consider locking it. GM Rikoo ------------- Illyriad Community Manager / Public Relations / community@illyriad.co.uk |
LadyLuvs wrote:Posted By: Nesse
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2014 at 18:38
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I don't really see LadyLuvs, why you got that upset with Epidemics statement - although it seems an old grudge? But I agree with Epidemics statement: "10x10 for city placement and 5x5 exclusive zone for sov, harvesting and armies" That is a much more generally accepted rule than "nobody may ever do anything within 10 square radius of any of my towns" (or in some cases a square with 21 square sides). There are occasionally alliances or players that claim such 10 square exclusivity, and there are also alliances popping up that claim exclusive rights to a region without having much of a coverage. Such claims are generally not long-lived although I have also seen exceptions to that. I do consider sovereignty a clear claim to the square though, and generally avoid harvesting on such squares. I have had cases with repeated harvesting on my sov - and then I did post an army there for a couple of months and the problem was gone. I suspect the player was also gone but I really don't know that. ------------- Nesse(Dwarven Druids) and Odd (Fairy Road Authority) |
Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2014 at 18:54
I am only in the minority on this particular forum thread. A quick look at the map shows that I am in the vast majority. I see lots of mines and herbs with garrisons, many with both guards and sov claims, and relatively few with only a sov claim. The practice of posting guards is so widespread because it is effective. I am curious why my approach is labeled as passive. Posting guards is a proactive measure to eliminate the possibility of minor conflicts like this one. It requires diligence and action, which is the opposite of passive behavior. If anything, claiming only sov and then complaining about intruders is passive, particularly if this disagreement has happened more than once. You have an easy, effective solution available. Post a guard, problem solved. It will probably never happen again. |
Posted By: Epidemic
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2014 at 08:37
Thank you,  |
Posted By: Brids17
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2014 at 04:40
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If you think Brand is passive, I just recently reassured a new-ish player that it was okay that he was collecting on my sov (he sent me a message apologizing) and sent him 150K gold and 1000 of each adv resources just to be nice. >.> Granted, I don't have anything sov'd I actually care about. No grapes or silversteel, so I can see why it'd be an issue for some. Then again, I don't see why anyone would be upset if their harvesters were destroyed when on someone else's sov. Kind of seems like something you should expect, unless you're new. -------------  |
Posted By: LadyLuvs
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2014 at 12:40
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Epi - nice try but distorting my words just proves my points about you. Thank you for making my point loud and clear for all to read! I appreciate you validating my opinion of you. Now seriously go away! Brand, there are those that do kill animals and leave no marking army. Yet they expect everyone to know they killed those animals and will be back to harvest them. I find them daft and ignorant and actually get tired of their grumbling about it. Those types of harvesting issues are because there is no way of telling who killed the lot whether it was a NPC or a player. There is no mark to know. Sov leaves a mark on the map and it even tells you who it belongs to. If you can't read and avoid those spots then you should find another game to play. Those that do do the double duty sov and army have probably had this same issue. I, however, feel it is redundant to mark a spot soved and then have to leave an army on it too because other players have no sense of respect for the gold another player is already spending per hour on a spot they soved. You can harvest the basics, clay, iron, lumber, and stone all you want within my sov but stay away from my Grapes, minerals and herbs both rare and basic unless you ask and receive proper permission. After these 2 players, no one is ever likely to receive permission to harvest anything on my sov again. Once again I ask that this thread be closed. I am not looking for permission or any other validation. I would hate to see Epi prove me right repeatedly. Please LOCK this thread! ------------- LadyLuvs Raven, Murder of Crows Alliance |
Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2014 at 17:27
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When one begins a forum topic, one can expect to have some discussion related to it. Often that discussion moves in directions unforeseen by the original poster. It is the nature of forums, seems to me. Mostly people don't like it when forum mods locks threads, and I"m not sure they should do so based on player requests. Although I'm sure there are threads I've started that I later wished would be locked!
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Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2014 at 19:19
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Starting a post doesn't mean you control the entire conversation. People are free to disagree with the OP, and that doesn't mean the post should be locked. I thought it was a useful conversation on an ongoing Illyriad game style clash. If you want to see it locked because you are arguing with Epidemic, I would point out that you are the only person on this thread making ad hominem attacks. His humor was quite tame in comparison. |
Posted By: Diva
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2014 at 03:27
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As far as any person needing the basics on my sovs, I'm cool with that, even to the gold that's sitting on my sovs with VANS. I am past the point of needing basics outside my castle, and I don't have a 10x10 area that I claim for npc's... respect my basic 5x5 area is all I'm asking. I remember people harvesting on my front porch, I do call that rude, so don't test me. ------------- "Um diva.... you are sort of acting like a .... diva...." - PhoenixFire |
Posted By: LadyLuvs
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2014 at 12:39
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My warning has been issued. That is all I wanted to do. Back to forum avoidance. Thank you greatly for reminding me why I don't venture here very often.  ------------- LadyLuvs Raven, Murder of Crows Alliance |
Posted By: GirlFromHell
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2014 at 13:02
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Hear, hear! ------------- ~Hell_Girl_Rei / -Nyx- Dovie'andi se tovya sagain. |
Posted By: Dungshoveleux
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2014 at 20:39
| If its something rare and valuable, post a guard. otherwise, and it's not worth getting up tight about it. Soving minor resources is a complete waste of time in my opinion as is posting guards. Every night I may have between 200-300 harvesting missions and obviously I don't have that many armies. Every 3 months, I might get a problem requiring a polite email but that's it. |
Posted By: DeliciousJosh
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2014 at 03:14
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I'm pretty much with Ryklaw on this one. I may also be held partly responsible for LLs furyswipe ------------- PublicRelations HumanResources |
Posted By: DeliciousJosh
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2014 at 03:15
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I would also like to add that I sent LL a friendly mail before I sent the harvesters. ------------- PublicRelations HumanResources |
Posted By: Aurordan
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2014 at 03:22
Well, that should solve the problem. Usually, the people that are harvesting on other people's sovereignty check the forum first for anything that individual may have had to say on the subject. I'm glad this useful and relevant warning exists.
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Posted By: STAR
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2014 at 23:02
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I posted something similar to this but it involved my entire alliance. The solution then was to sov it, you sov it you own it, now it seems not even sov'ing solves the problem, you have to add security by planting an army on it... Your not a newbie when you are building adv gatherers.... In order to know what those are and what they are used for, what building you need etc, you have to do reading, and with most guides out these days in forums, there are warnings of gathering on other players sov'd squares or close to another players cities... |
Posted By: Albatross
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2014 at 23:48
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Sovereignty is really a "this is mine" statement, and it enables bonus buildings. If someone has staked a territorial claim like this, then it should be no surprise for the owner to react to someone else attempting to make use of the square. Notice I'm not saying what that reaction might be. A player looking to use someone else's sovereign claim should either enter negotiations, or prepare to be caught red-handed. -------------  |