Top 20 Medals
Printed From: Illyriad
Category: Miscellaneous
Forum Name: Suggestions & Game Enhancements
Forum Description: Got a great idea? A feature you'd like to see? Share it here!
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=5679
Printed Date: 17 Apr 2022 at 13:44
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Top 20 Medals
Posted By: Arctic55
Subject: Top 20 Medals
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2014 at 20:53
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I don't know if I'm just getting bored, or being selfish, but it would be nice to get a medal for reaching the top 20 of any given division. And not just a static medal, a medal that upgrades every rank you go in the top 20, kinda like in the Champion Tournament, where the medal got cooler for every champion you captured. I suggest this is given to everyone who is in the top 20 currently. So Lyken would get a Rank 1 Trade medal, and Scottfitz would get a Rank 1 Overall medal, and I would get a Rank 18 Trade medal plus a Rank 20 Magic medal (I reach both spots at one point or another). This could possibly give some incentive to reach for the top 20 and increase competition. As always, CnC is always appreciated. ------------- I'm pressed but not crushed. Persecuted but not abandoned. Struck down but not destroyed. |
Replies:
Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2014 at 21:00
| Most of the categories are subject to manipulation. Artificial manipulation skews the rankings for everyone else. I don't think it needs to be encouraged any more than it already is. |
Posted By: Arctic55
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2014 at 21:03
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Well, you all can manipulate stuff if you want... I work hard to get into the top 20. And the main reason most people claim "manipulation" is because they aren't in the top 20. And how do you manipulate the Quest and Magic sections? ------------- I'm pressed but not crushed. Persecuted but not abandoned. Struck down but not destroyed. |
Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2014 at 21:28
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Magic: Simply by adding a lot of mana to random spells. Quest can't really be manipulated, although you can spend prestige to get extra quests and rise faster that way; since in theory it still has an in-game purpose I don't consider it manipulation. The main reason that I say there is manipulation is that I've seen it in the past. There are some scores that are harder to manipulate than others. Magic and Diplomacy are the easiest, followed by trade. It used to be even easier to manipulate trade; at least since the addition of taxes there is now a cost to doing that. I am not suggesting that all of the top 20 folks get their scores by manipulating them for non-game ends, just that it has happened in the past and I would prefer not to see it encouraged.
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Posted By: Aurordan
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2014 at 21:29
| You dump extra mana into spells that don't need or want it and you do quests even though there's no earthly reason for a player of any size to be doing most of them. Trade is about 90% manipulation, in my experience. |
Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2014 at 21:53
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Yeah, Jabbels proved that trade is the most manipulated score, beyond a doubt. A 3% tax in centrum means you can trade every piece of gold 30x (roughly), so it you want to pass #1 Lyken at 8B, it would take about 300M gold and a lot of patience. Magic and diplomacy are easy, too. Even attack and defense are easy to fake with an alt or co-conspirator. And let's face it, nobody is in awe of a high Quest or Technology score. I recommend that you mint medals using prestige, and give them to people in the top 20 of each category, and maybe a special medal for reaching #1. |
Posted By: Arctic55
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2014 at 21:55
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Well, I was hoping there would be something for reaching the top 20... since I'm there now, there really isn't much to do around here but to consider abandoning, and if I do, I have to decide if I want to return or move on. My point is, there seems to be nothing to strive for, and I'm getting very bored. ------------- I'm pressed but not crushed. Persecuted but not abandoned. Struck down but not destroyed. |
Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2014 at 22:19
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Settle in the Broken Lands? Start a war or tournament? Trade with the new continent? How would a medal solve your boredom? |
Posted By: Arctic55
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2014 at 03:22
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As a medal collector, it would give me something to do and strive to achieve. ------------- I'm pressed but not crushed. Persecuted but not abandoned. Struck down but not destroyed. |
Posted By: TheBillPN
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2014 at 09:41
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Why don't you just get someone to build you a medal and shut up. this topic is boring and i dont see why we need more competition in the ranks, i rise quite slowly, but this doesnt affect me playing the game. it is just for people who think games are for winning not playing. This is a life game, not a tournament or a race. there are parts of this game that allow you to get medals, take part and win in them if you are bored. (Plus all the Manipulation means if everyone got together they could put you down just to spite you.)
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Posted By: abstractdream
Date Posted: 19 Jun 2014 at 02:12
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I agree that medals for scores is a nonstarter but it's not necessary to insult the OP. If you're bored, try one of these: Exodus all your cities to TBL. Start a war with a much larger alliance. Start a training alliance. ------------- |
Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 19 Jun 2014 at 02:58
| To be honest, I like that the players run the achievement system in Illyriad, and not the devs. I think it adds a lot more weight to getting medals from other people. |
Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 19 Jun 2014 at 05:46
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wah wah, I got to top 20 in ------------- "This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM "a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill |
Posted By: Spheniscidae
Date Posted: 19 Jun 2014 at 11:47
Why not all of them at once if you're REALLY bored?
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abstractdream wrote:Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 19 Jun 2014 at 14:44
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Actually - it's worse than I previously thought. Think about it, he's 19th in trade, the ranking which is well known as the easiest to manipulate. To get to the Top 20 in trade you pretty much have to do what everyone else is doing i.e. move stuff around between alts and friends, i.e. Cheat. So our boy Arctic here has come onto the forum to publicly ask for a medal for cheating. The worst of it is that he's not even top 10 or top 3 so he's really looking for a medal for being a mediocre cheater. That said - I think someone should be able to oblige him - can someone make him that medal so he can proudly display it in GC? ------------- "This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM "a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill |
Posted By: Legoman
Date Posted: 19 Jun 2014 at 18:15
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I've known Arctic for a long while now and he doesn't have an alt and he is the absolute last person I would ever believe to be cheating or manipulating the system. He actually cares about the game and is looking for ways to improve it and make it more enjoyable. But this is the type of post we should expect from you. Everyone who says this is a bad idea lets hear your idea.
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Posted By: mitu
Date Posted: 19 Jun 2014 at 18:37
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not everyone is cheater , i myself is not a cheater , i didnot even went for city 10th from city 8th for my alt , i am building pop for the 10th city , and for trade . every single score i get in trade is geniun, well may be non cheater are few but they DO exist . i know arctic from the fast day of my illy life , we were at SM together i am sure he dont cheat . a messege to cheaters , its easy to cheat try doing it without cheats you will understand arctic |
Posted By: Aral
Date Posted: 19 Jun 2014 at 22:39
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I agree with KP on this one. Even if arctic isn't a cheater, there are certainly those who are cheaters, and implementing something like this will only encourage them to cheat even more. ------------- Aral Llc is not responsible for any grievous bodily harm sustained while reading this signature. No rights reserved. |
Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2014 at 21:40
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If you want to see someone with a 100B trade score overnight, this is the way to to encourage it. I've seen arctic sell stuff though. I believe he is a legit trader. |
Posted By: Hora
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2014 at 23:03
+1 abstract Would like to refere KP to sentence one, and want to point out, that some formerly big players already tried number 2 of abstract's suggestions (and I won't name them here...  ). Seems to add much excitement to the game  And yes, trade scores are too easily manipulated. I really take it, that players genuinly trading stuff all the time can enter the rankings, but exactly those honest ones would be badly shot down as soon as pure medal hunters (NOT arctic, as he seems to be trader first, medal hunter second) would cheat like hell as soon as they get rewards for it.
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Posted By: Brids17
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2014 at 03:29
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I remember when everyone on the forums weren't so hostile... Anyway, rather than complaining that this wouldn't work due to cheaters and exploiting (by the way, putting a lot of mana behind a spell isn't manipulation, and questing even though you don't need to isn't either) maybe we should, you know, ask the developers to fix this stuff? Especially considering they already said they would, and then never did? Why get angry with a poster just because the devs haven't fixed a broken system? -------------  |
Posted By: Aurordan
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2014 at 04:24
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Yes, they are. Anything someone does with no purpose other than to change a score is exactly manipulation. The point is that it's easier to keep these numbers meaningless then to have them be more complexely meaningless and have to police them. I think most people would rather have the Devs spend time on new things or fixing actual problems. |
Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2014 at 04:56
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Well said, Aurordan. Brids, one of the consequences of this being a sandbox is that it's possible to game many aspects of the ranking system. I have no problem ignoring ranks as they exist today. They can be manipulated, but they also don't count for anything. However, issuing developer-approved automatic rewards (even cosmetic ones) based on those faulty metrics is a red flag. If there are system rewards, they must be relatively fair and merit-based. As Aurordan points out, the sandbox makes these scores very difficult to police. In my opinion, such effort would be much better spent on new content like faction quests. |
Posted By: Neytiri
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2014 at 07:49
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I will make you a medal if you can build a level 20 vault in all 10 of your cities. ------------- "It is well that their bodies know the heat and the cold; it will make them strong warriors and mothers." - Absaroke elder (from Edward S. Curtis's book 'The North American Indian') |
Posted By: Brids17
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2014 at 09:26
Based on that definition, everything could be considered pointless. Having progression for players is hardly a bad thing, considering the only "end game" this game has besides the scores is gaining 10 cities. Beyond that, unless you want to lose them in a week, you just sit around and wait for a tournament. Also, being able to cheat scores *IS* a problem and it should be fixed. ------------- |
Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2014 at 14:10
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Take the rankings away completely - then there's nothing to fix and no incentive for people coming into forums begging for medals. If something in game is it's only worth doing just for the ranking then it's pretty pointless anyway. ------------- "This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM "a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill |
Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2014 at 15:18
| I find the rankings useful in assessing other players, even if some of the scores can be manipulated. |
Posted By: Brids17
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2014 at 15:41
Kind of ironic for the leader of the once top alliance, that prided itself with being the top alliance, to say. ------------- |
Posted By: Neytiri
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2014 at 17:51
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I'd also give a medal to the person who starts a thread that remains on-topic the longest. ------------- "It is well that their bodies know the heat and the cold; it will make them strong warriors and mothers." - Absaroke elder (from Edward S. Curtis's book 'The North American Indian') |
Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2014 at 19:07
Not really - it's hard to fake city population, land claimed, number of members so it's a different kettle of fish. I also don't think we've been particularly prideful about being number one for so long - at least not in the "in your face" kind of way you seem to be implying. ------------- "This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM "a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill |
Posted By: Tyrande Whisperwinds
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2014 at 10:30
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I must say... WTH! A medal for top 20.. TWENTY! t w e n t y... are you serious? If it was for top 3, i would see a small, little point to it, but top 20? for real? Name any competition, tourney, anything at all in which you get a medal for being in top 20. As, i'm sorry to say, threatning to abandon if you don't get a medal for your top 20 thingy is kinda... childish.. if you're bored, go do something else then! Lot's of games around.. Or, as many ppl said, go explore BL... it's a brand new continent with new, tasty mysteries to come! |
Posted By: dantem
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2014 at 15:21
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hmmm...surprised that this thread is going on for so long.... ------------- I believe that if life gives you lemons, you should make lemonade... And try to find somebody whose life has given them vodka, and have a party. |
Posted By: Arctic55
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2014 at 15:37
I understand where you are coming from, but you need to understand, this is a sandbox. There is also no end game. Since there is no end game, there is no "winning" you just exist. Without anything to strive for, there is no reason to play after reaching where you want to be. I myself do not plan on going got city 10 as I would have to reconstruct my cities which are currently built around large army size. Therefore, I have reached my desired position in population (or am coming near to it). Coming out of the building stage, I now see why many vets leave. It is BORING. Unless we want to do something dramatic: move cities = lose population start war = what we saw with H? start training alliance = work and competition against the more established. All of which are not really good options when you think about it. (I remember when illy was a nicer place, but that's for another time.) From where I stand, there isn't much to keep players in illy after they reached their targeted pop. Which is also why many LoU players left. After contacting them myself, many of the ones that left, told me it was because there was no end game, and they just couldn't stay in a game with no point to play. Think for yourselves, if there is nothing to do, nothing to strive fore, how long would you stay? ------------- I'm pressed but not crushed. Persecuted but not abandoned. Struck down but not destroyed. |
Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2014 at 20:50
Three years and counting ... I think what people are saying is, set your own goals. If one of them is being the top 20 in something and you want to award yourself a medal for it, go right ahead.
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Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2014 at 22:17
| Develop your own sandbox tournament. If I ever have time, I will create a trader mystery of my own. I have the framework, but it's a long way off. Months at least. I think it's silly that big players complain that there is nothing to do, when they are large enough to create meta-content themselves. System medals and scores are not going to keep players engaged in a sandbox game. It's not why we started playing in the first place. |
Posted By: Brids17
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2014 at 23:08
Outside of hacking, how does one "fake" a stat? You either have it or you don't. However you stated if the only purpose of doing something is for a high score, it's pointless. That is everything. You can have your alliance claim as much land as possible to appear to be top alliance in land. You can build up your population for no other reason besides having the highest population in the game. Should those stats be removed also? I didn't imply anything. I simply said you and your members have taken pride in being top alliance. I made no mention of you guys being in your face about it but you have shown pride about it. Which is fine, unless you think stats are so pointless to the extent to getting upset over someone suggesting there should be an award for it. Then it just makes you look like a hypocrite. ------------- |
Posted By: Arctic55
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2014 at 23:25
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Brids17 does have a point... just saying, not hating. ------------- I'm pressed but not crushed. Persecuted but not abandoned. Struck down but not destroyed. |
Posted By: Neytiri
Date Posted: 24 Jun 2014 at 05:40
Thank you.------------- "It is well that their bodies know the heat and the cold; it will make them strong warriors and mothers." - Absaroke elder (from Edward S. Curtis's book 'The North American Indian') |
Posted By: Tyrande Whisperwinds
Date Posted: 24 Jun 2014 at 11:06
I recently got my 10th city, and my cities have big armies. And all res and gold on green. But it took over two years of building and rebuilding and planning. It's like WoW.. The fun starts when you reach lvl 90! |
Posted By: Albatross
Date Posted: 24 Jun 2014 at 12:59
Rankings are just a broad stroke, a general indicator. The real measure of performance in any given situation is, er... performance in any given situation. There is no ranking statistic for "ability to defend against a siege", "market capital", "battle efficiency", "single-army attack potential", "uncommitted resource generation", "ability to fend off spies", nor any other specific situation that can arise in-game. Think of rankings as the amount of 'resource burn' that a player has incurred, e.g. troops burned, commander experience, trade tax, and so on. -------------  |
Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 24 Jun 2014 at 14:40
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*Brandmeister agrees with Albatross. One notes, for example, that Attack and Defense often break the top 100 when a big player is on the brink of death. The scores are not absolutes; they require considerable interpretation. |