GM Rikoo

Why? The veterans already have an advantage against lower-tier players. Why should they have another? 

And how long exactly do you think travel times will be for your caravans if all your cities are located in north Elgea?

Tenariling a single city thousands (for many of us) of squares away from our existing cities won't be all that easy either.  

Less established players will still have the advantage of being able to start many new cities (rather than just one) in the Broken Lands.  Giving everyone one Tenaril just means that those of us who have been waiting for so long won't have to wait even longer to experience the new land.

Again, I'd rather we all had started out on even footing in the Broken Lands. Since the developers have nixed that idea, the least they can do is make the first new content in years available to all without substantial barriers to entry.

As I understand it, the purpose for this is to allow existing 10 city players to experience the Broken Lands. 

I think that is something that needs to be addressed before BLs becomes habitable. Let's look at the options: 

- All strategic alliances interested in a BL presence will have begin exodusing to south Elgea ASAP. to get closer to BL. 

- Many players will create new accounts to have tenaril and settlers ready to reserve spots. 

- Day of BL, alliances exodus/tenaril/settle their cities to pre scouted BL terrain. Presumably the more experienced the alliance, the more strategic their city placements. 

- Those with Tenaril still available will use it asap. 

- First come first served exodus rules in place. If another alliance beats you to a BL square, or puts a faster and larger army there, you will loose your city. Tears shall be shed. 
- End result, those willing to abuse the account system will have a huge advantage. Larger alliances could have a huge advantage over newer players, but only if they are willing to loose some existing Elgea lands. The slow moving exodus of cities, all arriving at different times, will result in many clashes and destruction of cities over the first few weeks of BL. 

Give all accounts 1 Tenaril: 
- All existing accounts get to move one of their cities to BL, or to somewhere else in Elgea. 
- Day 1 of BL alliances will be tenariling to pre-located locations in BL to take over as much land mass as possible. Alliance with the most members will get the most land preserved using the rule of 10. 

- The larger the alliance, the more coordinated and experienced they are, and the earlier they log in will determine the political landscape of BL. 

- Smaller alliances of newer players will be vastly out maneuvered. 

- All cities moved will be their original size. I suspect many cities will be fully developed, creating an imbalance for all exodus-ed and settled cities. 

- Any rare resources will immediately be fought over using cities that tenarilled. I suspect massive armies will arrive with the cities. 

- End result, those willing to abuse the account system will have a huge advantage. Larger alliances could have a huge advantage over newer players, but only if they are willing to loose some existing Elgea lands. Everyone will use Tenaril, resulting in the best locations being reserved by existing players and locations. 

- Presumably the demand for land will go up, as everyone works towards their 11th city. We already have a land crisis. 

- Sat and abandoned accounts will be sieged so players can have a head start on their 11th city 

- If the extra city becomes active at the same time as BL, reduces the exodus and encourages settling

- Existing players can settle a new city in BL, with the new players. 

- smaller players will not get the benefit of the 11th city for a very long time. 

- End Result, demand for land goes up. Land usage goes up. May see sat account cities consolidated to active accounts. Depending on timing, may encourage everyone to settle a city in BL. 

- Frees up a city slot for a new city in Broken Lands

- Not very useful if we can exodus cities to BL, as it makes more sense to exodus than to demo and start over. 

What other options are there?

that sounds like that is a consequence for your actions? There shouldn't be nothing but benefits for your personal choices.  Why should offers be put at a disadvantage because they did not use their teleportation ability, but others hastily used theirs and now want another one?

Established accounts are leagues ahead of non-established accounts. You'll have no trouble settling in Broken Lands after Exodus, settlers or if you saved your teleportation ability. 

You could always save gold on your newly exodused city and buy resources off the BL market. 

That said, That particular issue doesn't really concern me much.  I do think that someone should be thinking about what happens when two people try to exodus to the same square.  There's going to be a lot of disgruntled people a few days after BL opens when people's cities are landing on each other left and right.  A Tenaril might at least cut down on that by letting people send a city over immediately to a place the know will be free.   

Tenariling a single city thousands (for many of us) of squares away from our existing cities won't be all that easy either.  

Less established players will still have the advantage of being able to start many new cities (rather than just one) in the Broken Lands.  Giving everyone one Tenaril just means that those of us who have been waiting for so long won't have to wait even longer to experience the new land.

Again, I'd rather we all had started out on even footing in the Broken Lands. Since the developers have nixed that idea, the least they can do is make the first new content in years available to all without substantial barriers to entry."



I'm confused here Rill, So your complaint is you don't get to start over in BL, and that its an extension and not a completely separate world.  So you could have this new "start over" experience by exodusing all your cities to BL, having the buildings drop to lvl 12, and getting a fresh start at spots and rebuilding.  You'd even get to keep all your researches, which is still a nice advantage over new players. 

Instead you want a free move so you can keep one city to feed the others. Don't your two complaints contradict each other?  Also, how are less established players given the advantage by being able to move their less developed cities somewhere?  And if it is such an advantage, do you think allowing vets to move one of their fully developed cities makes it fair?  Vets already have a huge advantage, even with BL opening, some of y'all have been building accounts for years, and have 6 total accounts with 60 cities, and your complaining that a bunch of new accounts are getting an advantage?  Vets already have good established spots in Elgea, and now the complaint is that you want the new spots too? Is it not fair that new players get to experience Illy the same way you did?  C-mon guys, thats just being greedy.  Please think things through before you complain.

From my perspective, this expansion was sorely needed, and the current land mass cannot hold another 200 players, especially with the 10 spot rule for exodus.  This puts new players and new alliances at a huge disadvantage to established ones who have their own areas already set up. 

The developers obviously want the amount of players in this game to expand, so seems reasonable to make room for new people.  If no more space is made, new players will end up leaving and this game will become stale and stagnant, and believe me if there wasn't an impending land expansion new players would be leaving, solely because the map is too crowded ATM for anyone to move. 

There is still plenty of ways for vets to move to BL without having to be given a second tenaril.

 I think the devs have thought this through, and people were bound to complain no matter what they decided.  So here is my +1 to the devs for seeing an issue that was effecting game play and fixing it promptly, good job.

YOU are the one looking for the "easy" button here, a completely new area where your already large alliance will have unfettered ability to carve an empire.  You believe that happening to arrive at a convenient moment means you somehow "deserve" an opportunity no one else since the beginning of Illyriad has ever gotten.

I do not begrudge you that experience.  But I am a little sad that you begrudge me an opportunity to experience it as well.

Edited:  Upon reflection Gordy, your argument is the one that's inconsistent.  You say that your main desire is to have more space.  Well, there's lots of space in Broken Lands.  There will STILL be lots of space even if people are allowed one-time Tenarils.  Your alliance will still be able to get the pick of many great spots.  So if your main concern was having more space, you are getting it whether other people get Tenarils or not.  Why not be supportive of other people who are longtime players also having an opportunity?

 

After waiting so long older players want to experience BL as well but the cost is..losing months of hard work for exodusing, so in that light asking for 1 tenaril isnt too much :) Newer players are new already, they arent losing anything here, rather getting bonus with newly expanded map.

 

The vets have been patient, understood the issues and remained with the game, for all that patience surely some incentive in form of Tenaril isnt that much to ask for :)

 

We also need to remember that not everyone pres builds, so for those players going down from 20k to under 2k pop can be bit too much , hence why a free teleport should be considered :)

 

 

 

 

Says the person that is demanding a free teleport. You should have saved yours if it was so important to you. 

You're the one looking for the 'easy button'. "you believe that you somehow deserve an opportunity that no one else has ever gotten"

You want another teleport after you apparently wasted your own. Tough luck. 

And about the LOU alliance moving 2gether, wont it be the same thing if everyone got an extra tenarail? why doesn't everyone just try to make this work with the current restrictions instead of complaining? 

The map is more crowded than when I started and less crowded than when some people who started six months ago started.

Gordy, you can't both commend yourself for being willing to start  in the middle of a perpetual game (as I did, only longer ago) and then say that it is somehow an unfair advantage that people who have been playing longer might already have armies, completed research, etc.  Obviously you would like to be far away from folks who have that, so you will be able to get a clean start.  I completely understand that.  What I'm asking is, why, after all these years, should you be uniquely privileged?

because the devs released it now??

Primarily, should there be a change to the current game rules so 10 city players can experience Broken Lands without exodusing a city? 

I have laid out several solutions besides the 1 extra magic move. There are pros and cons on all sides. Please list any facts, data, predictions, or repercussions you have; preferably without attacking other folks ideologies. 

If you continue down the current path, I'm canceling Christmas. 

1 tenaril will allow people like me to move the first city with relatively no problems, then slowly exodus the others over the course of a year. If a tenaril is not given then the process will take even longer and we (members of elgea that have toughed it out for 2 years and up) then the process will take longer and all the newer players will be able to build several cities on their accounts while this takes place.

Fair is fair, realistic is realistic, truth is truth.

 

1) You're uniquely privileged in your timing. Having a tenaril right now is undeniably more valuable, with all the good real estate that's about to become available, than it was a year ago or two years ago. 

2) If anyone pointed this out, I must have missed it, but the devs giving big players a free tenaril is a bad idea, business-wise. I'm guessing larger players that exodus towns will be using a good amount of prestige to get those towns back to fighting weight. If we can just drop one of our "finished," high-producing towns into a great spot and start claiming sov and yada yada, a lot less prestige will be burned. So I would be surprised if we get a free tenaril.

3) Eat more ham sandwiches.

Well, when BL was announced, everyone would start from 0 pop and no research, with no movement of goods, diplo or armies from Elgea to BL. Now, that truly is a level playing field, and I didn't mind that being released. 

Now, 1.5 years later - the rules governing BL have been significantly changed from the level playing field promised to something that favours those in the south of Elgea (easier time moving resources, faster exodus, can use armies to block off best spots or kill exodusing cities more quickly). It also favours those with most of their cities not completed yet, since the amount of time taken to get a new city after the 4th or 5th increases exponentially. 

This is a significant map change to Elgea, and with a sudden change in the rules - exactly why tenaril was introduced in the first place (when the Elgea map was made more detailed). Of course - this free tenaril shouldn't be used within Elgea - all accounts already have one of those - but it should be available to use between Elgea and BL.

Of course, there will be the usual Epi-sarcasm, but I don't remember Epi having been constructive for the longest time.

one per account .   they can expire  after a month  maybe . ??

If the concern is over veteran players having an advantage because of Tenariling established cities, perhaps there could be limitations such as de-leveling all buildings and even giving up research for ANY city that tenarils to Broken Lands from Elgea.  That would address concerns about unfairness to newer players, I would think.  In fact it would still advantage them because they have more cities available.

So ... maybe a Tenaril that de-levels city buildings to level 10 or 12 and some sort of maximum amount of research completed for EVERYONE.  So we could start on even footing.

Edit:  I'd even go for a rule that you can't bring ANY armies or diplo units with you.  So long as the rule applied to everyone.

The Exodused cities that landed safely could have full armies and full research, which are different than what I proposed.

That is correct. 

The reasoning is that if you exodus a city, you need to make sure you have control over the target location. If someone else has control over target location, and you try to plant a city there, your city will fail. 

I believe the troops present in the city will attempt to fight off any opposing military occupying the square. If they win, your city will get the square. 

If they loose, or a city arrives on the square before them, the exodus city is destroyed. 

The reason the exodus city does not simply return to it's original location is because another city or army could be at it's original location. Causing the exodus city to just bounce back and forth for all of eternity. 

I believe it is already in game and has been a part of the existing rules for a very long time. They will also get destroyed if other settlers establish a city there first, if another exodus city arrives first, or if a teneril city beats them there. 

Great question. 

We know that people will primarily want 7 food squares. Not all of the 2,000 X 2,000 squares are 7 food. Scanning the map, it looks like some continents have very few +7 food at all. 

We also know the higher food sov nearby makes for more desirable locations. a +18 food next to a +7 is a very attractive spot. 

Rare resources will define prime locations. People will want to capitalize on rare resources by takng the nearest 7 food square. 

So there are far fewer than 2,000 x 2,000 squares that folks will want to settle. 

Now all exodus cities move at the same rate. So lets say everyone exoduses their cities within 1 hour of BL being deployed. 

My alliance, has a huge advantage over other alliances as we are located in the far south of Elgea. Since all exodus cities move at the same rate, and that speed is slower than dirt, we could send 5 armies from each city to sit on the squares we want in BL. Effectively destroying any exodus cities that arrive. 

We can also deploy settlers that will arrive before any exodus cities arrive. as we are much closer. And, if the rules apply, are exodus cities will arrive FIRST from everyone elses. 

Is that fair? 

In theory Tenaril has the same restrictions.  There have been some instances of glitches that have resulted in "stacked cities" with both two exodusing cities and and exodusing city and a Tenariling city.  These situations are relatively uncommon and have become much more rare due to code updates, but I still wouldn't completely rule out the possibility.  (It's hard to prove a negative.)

This is a great idea for new magic. Gives a good reason for new school of magic, unused gems, new spells, and a reason to burn through mana. 

You can only have 1 city in transit at a time, so the move across to BL is going to be VERY slow for players trying to shift 10 cities over.

To those who keep saying veterans have too many advantages over new players, I disagree. The oldest vets have had to grow their cities under much harder circumstances - a lot of players are still on 5 food squares from before 7 food was available. They settled before water sov/crafting and now lake/loch sov has arrived making certain spots even more lucrative.. but the vets have already got all their cities established, they don't get to take advantage of these new opportunities unless they take huge penalties to what they have spent years creating. Who wants to demolish all military/t2 buildings and knock every city down to ~2k pop from ~25k pop? 

In addition, these players are the ones who have supported Illyriad for many years, ensuring it is still here for new players to enjoy. The 10 city cap means that those players who have been playing the longest are on equal terms as players who have played for ~1 year but they suffer because they have not had the benefit of all the new updates, meaning less military and lower population caps.. and people want to moan about having ONE free tenaril to BL? Pfft. Imo, the free tenarils should go to the players who started before I did and haven't had the chance to take advantage of all the wonderful things I have.

Also, giving people a free tenaril will open up Elgea for newbies too. In theory, newbies would then have the choice of which continent to settle rather than feel forced to move to BL for better opportunities. It would give us a 'whole' server rather than a bunch of tiny cities tacked onto a realm of much larger ones. 

Good luck to all who choose to move across :)