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05MAY15 - New Player changes

Printed From: Illyriad
Category: News & Announcements
Forum Name: Announcements
Forum Description: Changes, patch release dates, server launch dates, downtime notifications etc.
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=5561
Printed Date: 18 Oct 2019 at 17:17
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: 05MAY15 - New Player changes
Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Subject: 05MAY15 - New Player changes
Date Posted: 05 May 2014 at 21:35
Hi All,

With the awesome influx of new players into illy, I've had a few suggestions come my way.  One came out of the excellent http://www.twitch.tv/luna_illyriad/b/519851728" rel="nofollow - new player strategy podcast , and the other from a new player.

We've now implemented three suggestions, and they're live.

Effective, immediately:

  1. Caravans sent to a player under rainbow protection now automatically move at twice their usual speed.
  2. We've changed the storage capacity of the first three levels of the Storehouse, as follows:

Storehouse Level

Old Capacity

New Capacity

Level 1

750

1000

Level 2

975

1200

Level 3

1267

1400

Level 4

1647

Same (1647)

     3. The Merchants Guild research has been reduced from 2days to 2 hours.


Many thanks, hope this helps.

Regards,

SC




Replies:
Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 05 May 2014 at 21:38
Thank you, these are GREAT changes that will help new players and help us help new players!

You rock!


Posted By: Chris G
Date Posted: 05 May 2014 at 22:00
That is most excellent,,will really help us "newbie helpers" thank you!


Posted By: Gimli Son of Groin
Date Posted: 05 May 2014 at 22:01
I completely agree with Rill here, this will make newb caravans a lot quicker and will help speed up our ninja caravans. However, one thing that I hope will either not be implemented or this bonus won't work with it, is if rainbows were purchasable either will real money or with prestige. Now, I'm not disagreeing with the update; I think it is an amazing idea introduced solely to help newer players. What I don't want though, is people getting quicker caravans through something only meant to help new players, not those with truckloads of money to blow on this awesome game (I would be that guy). I hope you understand my point of view, but I am LOVING the updates recently!

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“A single dream is more powerful than a thousand realities.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien

“I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien


Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 05 May 2014 at 22:04
Originally posted by Gimli Son of Groin Gimli Son of Groin wrote:

However, one thing that I hope will either not be implemented or this bonus won't work with it, is if rainbows were purchasable either will real money or with prestige.

No, rainbows will never be purchasable.  This is designed solely to give new players to the game a greater boost in their first 7 days.

Best,

SC


Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 05 May 2014 at 22:44
Hi all,

One other change I meant to make at the same time.

The Merchants' Guild research was previously a 2 day research for reasons lost in the mists of time.

It has now been changed to a 2 hour research, effective immediately.

Those players who were researching Merchants Guild have had their research autocompleted.

Many thanks,

SC


Posted By: Myr
Date Posted: 05 May 2014 at 22:57
I love this update. Thank you, Devs!


Posted By: DeliciousJosh
Date Posted: 06 May 2014 at 00:34
Very nice move. Hope it helps with things


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PublicRelations
HumanResources


Posted By: Dragonwort
Date Posted: 06 May 2014 at 00:38
Merchants? Is that the same as traders? If so, mine are still taking 6-7 days to complete.

Also...When are the lakes to change so we can claim sovereignty and fish? All of mine still say that I can't claim sovereignty there.

Thanks...Smile Dragonwort


UPDATE: Sorry, reread the thread and see that you are dealing with the guild building itself and NOT the traders..Hey....a person can hope...lol..DW






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Just another wrench in the works..


Posted By: Arctic55
Date Posted: 06 May 2014 at 01:31
I think this was needed. And, I was wondering about the old 2day research time. That's 1 day and 22 hours of research I won't get back in any of my towns...

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I'm pressed but not crushed.
Persecuted but not abandoned.
Struck down but not destroyed.


Posted By: abstractdream
Date Posted: 06 May 2014 at 01:46
Welcome to the club, Arctic55. It's not an actual problem though, imo.

I've never been much of a newb-fairy-godmother but I think this is a great idea and a great update. From what I can remember as a newb, in those foggy days of yore, these improvements would have been much appreciated. Thanks!

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Bonfyr Verboo


Posted By: Alcie
Date Posted: 06 May 2014 at 02:37
Thank you!      I have been enjoying zipping my caravans around already. The other changes don't affect me, but a lot of newbies do complain about how hard it is to make a trader so it is nice it is a bit faster now :)

Also I would like to say, it has been really nice that we have been getting small little changes like lately (and the less small but very nice addition of lake sov). Combined with the tourney at the same time, it is practically illy paradise.


Posted By: LadyLifeGrows
Date Posted: 06 May 2014 at 03:29
ClapThis is wonderful. I am still gonna use 3 prestige for my buddy-link welcome caravans cuz it helps newbies get to 100 population and then I get 50 prestige. It seems only fair to give them a wee bit of the prestige they give me.

I was specifically thinking of first and second day newbies, when the system tells me they landed but nobody else knows yet. I want my small caravans to get there so fast that they don't have time to get bored for lack of resources.

Maybe a five-prestige pigeon post that would zap up to 2000 items in 1 hour, or even immediately. You have to research it first, of course, somewhere in the trade menus, but it is housed with the caravans, so you don't need yet another building.

Hmm--a new suggestion--how about a 100 prestige item that expanded one city so it could hold one more building? Limit 5 per city so as not to ruin the game.

Gimli, you were one of my rainbow heroes drowning me in res. You really gave me a good claying and I had to ask why you sent so much. You explained that you had more than you could use anyway and by the time your caravans got home, the res was replaced anyway. I have used this understanding in my mails I sent to new players letting them know that they need to announce themselves in gc.


Posted By: LadyLifeGrows
Date Posted: 06 May 2014 at 03:48
How to get newbies to last.

I have a buddy link on the Lord of Ultima (LoU) forum "Where do we go next?" That is a big game that is ending so I get new players every day and I have increased the percentage who stay and who make it to 100 population. It is good for Illyriad if you all know what I have discovered.

First, I only send caravans if  player has at least 3 population. Any game has toe-dippers that decide right away that the game is not for them, and they vanish, never to return. I have done that myself, several times. No sense sending them res--but one of these DID get some population, so I still send them a welcome mail just in case they ever see it.

Since I am a small two-city player myself, I don't send Gimli-size clayings. I just send 100 books so they can start their research, and 100-500 of each res and some gold since peeps gave me millions. But I want them to get my caravans as fast as possible and that is what started this thread.

Later I added a welcome mail because some were wondering how I knew they existed. Here is the last one I sent:

The game tells me when somebody signs up from my LoU buddy link. There are a lot of LoU vets here in Illy.

In a minute, I will check your towns, and as soon as I see at least 3 citizens, I will send you a welcome wagon.

If you say hello in global chat, you will find out how rich some players are as they dearly love to drown new players in res. Do tutorial and then upgrade your storehouse!

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When I checked his towns, he already had 3 citizens, so I sent a caravan right away and it would take forever even with  prestige. He has replied to my mail:

oh great thanks!

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Illy is a very social group and letting people know right away that they are appreciated and wanted is the essence of it.


Posted By: Auraya
Date Posted: 06 May 2014 at 11:23
+1 devs. Muchly appreciated :)


Posted By: Albatross
Date Posted: 06 May 2014 at 13:45
This looks like a good step in removing some of the in-game hurdles for new players.

The only exploit I foresee, is as follows: established players (or alliances) who have towns on the outskirts can create a new alt player, on the gamble that its location will be useful (say within the 'newbie ring'), and use it to receive high-value advanced or crafted resources at double speed. The new account can then distribute those the short last hop at 20 squares per hour (or as Marketplace upgrades allow).

So to close this, I expect only a limited range of items should be sent at double speed, i.e. those likely to be used by a very new player (any quantity of 5 basics, up to 200 books, up to 50 cows, up to 50 horses).


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Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 06 May 2014 at 18:33
Alba, I think you are forgetting that the caravan carrying capacity of a new player is tiny -- 5 caravans carrying 200 items each in the beginning.  In order to expand to carry a significant number of items you would need to upgrade marketplace and research ...

Bartering 2h
Trading 10 h
Mercantilism 12 h
Cartels 18 h

Improved Loading 3 h
Reinforced Cartwheels 6h
Baggage Train 9 h
Juggernaut 14 h

These are just the shorter researches and would not give you full carrying capacity, but to achieve it would take 3 days, so you'd only have 4 days left to "exploit" this before having to start over with a new newb alt.  

That's IF you use prestige to upgrade your marketplace (and storehouse/warehouse) to the right levels, which of course would require resources, which you would probably need to prestige deliver if you wanted to get them in a timely manner.  At that point, you might as well spend the prestige on speeding up caravans of goods!

While it's remotely possible that someone would wish to do this, it seems unlikely to me, especially given random spawning of newbs and the number of accounts you'd have to start and abandon to get the location you wanted.

I suggest the developers keep an eye on whether a lot of newb accounts are being started and abandoned from single IP addresses to determine whether this is occurring.  I don't know that I'd devote a lot of time to it, given the extremely limited potential for an exploit.


Posted By: Aurordan
Date Posted: 06 May 2014 at 19:27
If you listen carefully, you can hear every thief in Elgea cry a little.  

They where already a pretty depressed bunch, of course.  


Posted By: Chaos Armor
Date Posted: 07 May 2014 at 04:54
Originally posted by Aurordan Aurordan wrote:

If you listen carefully, you can hear every thief in Elgea cry a little.  

They where already a pretty depressed bunch, of course.  

I pray for their souls.


Posted By: Diva
Date Posted: 07 May 2014 at 17:19
All these numbers, and we all know how good at math I am! /me nodz vigorously, the heart of the matter is, I AM GLAD TO HEAR SOME NEW STUFF!!

Can this be a weekly thing? (would be amazed of course and I have low expectations.. LOL) 

YOU LIKE US, YOU REALLY, REALLY LIKE US, DEVS!!
D


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"Um diva.... you are sort of acting like a .... diva...." - PhoenixFire


Posted By: lokifeyson
Date Posted: 08 May 2014 at 05:23
Woah! udates....? wait what are those again? Wink

thanks guys!Clap


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Posted By: Albatross
Date Posted: 08 May 2014 at 13:34
Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

Alba, I think you are forgetting that the caravan carrying capacity of a new player is tiny -- 5 caravans carrying 200 items each in the beginning.
Indeed, hence my specifying high-value items only. Think silversteel, crafted stuff, or very urgent stuff.

Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

I suggest the developers keep an eye on whether a lot of newb accounts are being started and abandoned from single IP addresses to determine whether this is occurring.  I don't know that I'd devote a lot of time to it, given the extremely limited potential for an exploit.
*nods again* I took that as read. 

Overall, a player would be quite desperate to do this, and I'd not worry until it actually starts happening. There's a developer rule that you code for 80% of users, and this is very much a <1% possibility, with minimal impact.


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Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 09 May 2014 at 00:24
Devs, if you really want to help new players, then please cut the Exodus requirement from Warehouse 20 to like WH10 or SH15. It's ridiculous that you openly admit you expect people to leave the newb ring to join friends, and then punish them horribly for doing just that. New players spend weeks building up their warehouse and doing the Exodus research, only to rip it all down. It's unnecessary and demoralizing for them.

Or let people burn down their own towns. Anything to help speed up the migration process once people make a moving decision. Or get rid of Tenaril terraforming, because everyone is so reluctant to waste that spell just moving into an alliance.


Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 09 May 2014 at 03:04
I'm as interested in new players as anyone, but I don't think lowering the requirement for Exodus is a good answer.  New players should not feel pressured to do Exodus and then Tenaril; Tenariling out of the new player ring onto a 5-food square works out just fine, especially if other cities are on 7-food squares.  Of course there are significant advantages to Exodus and then Tenaril, but it's reasonable to expect some sacrifice in exchange for the advantages.

In my experience, the biggest barrier is the time it takes to build the warehouse to level 20, not the fact that it delevels to 12 afterwards.  Some new players get discouraged by that.  But that's a reason not create a false belief in new players that Exodus then Tenaril is the only way to be successful in the game; it should be presented as an option that can be helpful if you have patience (or a supportive alliance and willingness to spend prestige).

I wouldn't object to a rule that you can only Tenaril a maximum of 5 food squares to cut out the pressure, but it's hard to imagine how that would work out in the code (what happens to the other squares?) and probably there would be howls of protest.

In sum:  I think the Exodus mechanic works just fine; it is the player-created application of the idea that some new players may feel pressured to adopt that creates a problem.


Posted By: Karrakaz
Date Posted: 22 May 2014 at 19:20
Karrakaz's Storehouse L1 completed at Tai-Tastigon. Construction of Storehouse L2 has now begun. 10 minutes ago 22 May 2014 18:02:54
King Sigurd of Illyria's [DEVS] caravans from Council Of Illyria arrive at Karrakaz's town Tai-Tastigon 11 minutes ago 22 May 2014 18:02:05
Caravans from King Sigurd of Illyria [DEVS] are on their way to Tai-Tastigon 12 minutes ago 22 May 2014 18:01:03
Caravans from King Sigurd of Illyria [DEVS] are on their way to Tai-Tastigon 12 minutes ago 22 May 2014 18:01:03
Karrakaz's Library L1 completed at Tai-Tastigon. Construction of Storehouse L1 has now begun. 13 minutes ago 22 May 2014 17:59:53

Notice anything? Look carefully.


Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 22 May 2014 at 22:27
The caravans arrive before the storehouse is complete.  This mostly happens if you click along without actually reading anything.  I do recommend building the storehouse first still, since otherwise some resources may be lost.


Posted By: Altrix
Date Posted: 23 May 2014 at 00:54
I think Karrakaz is more referring to the fact that two sets of caravans get dispatched to his town yet only one arrives. I am not up with how many a new player recieves but it does seem odd that one arrives in 1min and the other has not shown even though they were dispatched at the same time.


Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 23 May 2014 at 01:58
They are staggered.  One arrives almost instantly, the other takes 14 hours.  I assume this is to give the new player some time to use up the resources.  Yes it's a little weird that they start from the same place and take different amounts of time to arrive, but this is King Sigurd we're talking about.  I've been telling you, he's not to be trusted.


Posted By: GirlFromHell
Date Posted: 23 May 2014 at 21:22
This is fantastic!
It shows what Illy is best at. Making everything awesome. Newbs will get an excellent boost, making this an even MORE players friendly game!
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~Hell_Girl_Rei / -Nyx-

Dovie'andi se tovya sagain.



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