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Kumo Reckoning

Printed From: Illyriad
Category: The World
Forum Name: Politics & Diplomacy
Forum Description: If you run an alliance on Elgea, here's where you should make your intentions public.
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=5459
Printed Date: 17 Apr 2022 at 14:20
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Kumo Reckoning
Posted By: Kumomoto
Subject: Kumo Reckoning
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2014 at 05:54
Reading many of these posts on this forum, many of the "evils" that H? is being accused of are actually statement that I personally have made both in GC and Forums. As a Director of H?, I understand how my exclamations have been attributed to H?

They are mine. And mine alone.

Please do not attribute any of my past comments to H? proper. I apologize for offending folks. Maybe I should have said this before offending folks. Good point. I've gotten a bit of an epiphany given recent events in my life... So. It's the best I can do.

I'm not saying this simply because we are outnumbered. If you have been offended by my statements, take it out on me, not H?. I think a lot of the hate is towards me and not my alliance and I welcome you to focus it on me. I'm pretty imperfect. In fact, massively so. But please focus all the bile that I've caused on me. Think of me as another NC member. You won't have a problem exterminating me that way... ;)

Given that I'm not allowed to post here, I'll probably no longer be an H? Director after this, I highly encourage you all to take advantage of this! Pummel Kumo!

But... if you all choose to continue to attack H? in general, I can assure you, you will spend a very very active 18+months clearing H? out of the SW and we will throw ourselves into it... Good luck with that...




Replies:
Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2014 at 05:59
And reading over my post, I realized I didn't say something very important:

I'm sorry if I offended folks.


Posted By: Epidemic
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2014 at 07:26
People will read whatever they want to read into what someone says, be it positive or negative.

I'm sure i'll probably be sieged out the the game and go down in new Illy history as a 'gc troll' because of what I say, though most will ignore the fact I was also vocally against the trove war.

Only thing I can do is stay the person I am, ignore the threats and taunts, and play a game the way I want to...with no fear of what I say being misinterpreted to be used against those around me.

I know I can speak for most of Illy in saying that we want no part of a game where you get attacked for joking around in gc, roleplaying, having heated discussions or pretty much anything else done in gc or igm.


Posted By: Hora
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2014 at 09:42
Kumo, I understand why you would not "be allowed" to post in here, given that some of your former posts tended to escalate conflicts and were indeed insulting in some points.

But I really hope this one, apologizing post won't turn out bad for you. Nice to read, and it was important, for some people, and for yourself, I'm sure Thumbs Up


Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2014 at 10:41
Thx, Hora. I appreciate your mature sentiment.

Yeah. Epidemic subjecting to ridicule is probably the first...

I should have known that gracious winning is beyond this group...

Go ahead folks. rub it in...


Posted By: Binky the Berserker
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2014 at 12:39


Posted By: Tatharion
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2014 at 13:35
Kumomoto,

It's healthy to say uncle when your bone's about to break.

Now, I will renew yet again my call for peace in Elgea:

As one recognized leader for your alliance and allies, please do the honourable thing and allow your alliance as a whole or its individual members to settle, carry on in peace and put this fight behind you all.

You did allow this to happen as a victor when VIC had its back against the wall at the end of the Consone war. Your terms were quite harsh at the time but eventually survivable. I sincerely hope that your enemies will offer you a similar kind of choice. There is no sense of achievement in going out Alamo-style.

I will last quote Plato as I am fond of his following sayings : 

"Only the dead have seen the end of war."
 &
"When men speak ill of thee, live so that nobody will believe them."

Best,
Tatharion
Consul, Invictus


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Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong.


Posted By: Deranzin
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2014 at 13:43
Originally posted by Tatharion Tatharion wrote:

 
I will last quote Plato as I am fond of his following sayings : 

"Only the dead have seen the end of war."
 &
"When men speak ill of thee, live so that nobody will believe them."
 


Plato has written other things as well though :

"For neither in war nor yet at law ought any man to use every way of escaping death. For often in battle there is no doubt that if a man will throw away his arms, and fall on his knees before his pursuers, he may escape death; and in other dangers there are other ways of escaping death, if a man is willing to say and do anything. The difficulty, my friends, is not in avoiding death, but in avoiding unrighteousness; for that runs faster than death. I am old and move slowly, and the slower runner has overtaken me, and my accusers are keen and quick, and the faster runner, who is unrighteousness, has overtaken them. And now I depart hence condemned by you to suffer the penalty of death, and they, too, go their ways condemned by the truth to suffer the penalty of villainy and wrong; and I must abide by my award - let them abide by theirs. I suppose that these things may be regarded as fated, - and I think that they are well."

The whole part is very interesting too Wink

if anyone has time : http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/apology.html ... I think you will enjoy it Smile




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Just like a "before and after" ad ! ahahahaah :p


Posted By: darpansah
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2014 at 14:03
Well no offence people as this statement is made because they are outnumbered and alone now being humble wont help as at the time when those statements were made there were no regrets but why now?


Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2014 at 14:32
Go ahead and bathe in your vitriol, Darpa. I'm not being humble in some half hearted attempt to save myself. Quite the contrary. I'm simply trying to take responsibility for my actions upon myself. And I certainly am not crying uncle, Tath. Please re-read my statement.

Oh, and Tath. Please stop pretending the Vic terms were harsh. You lost less than half the cities we have already lost.


Posted By: darpansah
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2014 at 15:00
Well as I said no offence but it would be better mailing those people you have said rather putting it here as this would not generate any sympathy and you agree your surrendering terms are very well spoken in the above post ..... I am not trying to throw any sulphuric acud here   lol   its a very harsh compound .... and yes all the best to you as well...

Cheers


Posted By: Ryklaw
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2014 at 16:32
I did an internet search of components of a sincere apology. As a result was directed to sites regarding Effective Apologies, etc.

I am thankful for what I have learned from this post and the results of an internet search.

"In times of change, learners inherit the earth. The learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists." Eric Hoffer


Best wishes to all as we seek a resolution to this war.


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Finishing the Race!
II Tim 4:7,8


Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2014 at 16:58
I believe Kumo's statements has nothing to do with any wars. Wars would have happened just the same with or without those statements.

I find Kumo a likeable person, even though we differ in opinion on almost everything happening under King Sigurd.



Posted By: DeliciousJosh
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2014 at 17:19
Didn't your whole alliance back your ideas and behavior?




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PublicRelations
HumanResources


Posted By: Diva
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2014 at 17:32
Originally posted by Kumomoto Kumomoto wrote:



 

But... if you all choose to continue to attack H? in general, I can assure you, you will spend a very very active 18+months clearing H? out of the SW and we will throw ourselves into it... Good luck with that...


If the game doesn't change much from today forward.. I believe H? will outlast all the quitters of the game.


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"Um diva.... you are sort of acting like a .... diva...." - PhoenixFire


Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2014 at 18:36
I have respect for Kumomoto for owning his faults.  I don't think we need to quibble about wording.


Posted By: darpansah
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2014 at 20:07
Rill respect you to respect him after all he said to you as well
.. I have a good chat transcript from the past but he would be ashamed of reading that

. Anyways all the best kumo...


Posted By: darpansah
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2014 at 20:08
I can promise you we will end this in another 6 months. ..


Posted By: tansiraine
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2014 at 20:13
Kumo has been voicing his change for months now.  Multiple times starting before the war and was vocal in GC in the beginning of this war stating his change of heart and view and owning up to his mistakes.  I have seen multiple people that have tried to bait him over the months and they have succeeded a few times to sent him off on a rant.. But the past few month he has been making an effort to not let those same people push his buttons.  

Kumo reminds me of a mother bear he is very protective over the rest of us in H? he considers us part of his family and his responsibility.  So unless you are perfect stop throwing stones...
 


Posted By: Binky the Berserker
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2014 at 20:27
Originally posted by tansiraine tansiraine wrote:

 So unless you are perfect stop throwing stones...


Don't you think he asked for that by posting this thread?


Posted By: BellusRex
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2014 at 20:33
I take what Kumo says at face value. I can't begin to guess the number of times something Kumo went on in GC about or the forums made me throw things or yell at my computer, but I respect what he has done here.

The real problem wasn't, that as you say, what you said was taken as H? policy since you were a Director. It was the fact that no other H? Director ever followed up your post or statement and said that it wasn't. Regardless, water under the bridge, and congrats on your RL happenings...


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"War is the father of all things..."


Posted By: realist
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2014 at 22:57
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iwio208q3jY" rel="nofollow - apology accepted




Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2014 at 00:13
Originally posted by Tatharion Tatharion wrote:

Now, I will renew yet again my call for peace in Elgea:


Coming from someone who was agitating for VIC to join the war against H?  I find this hypocritical.


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"This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM

"a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill


Posted By: The Duke
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2014 at 00:47
I dont know that Ive ever been offended personally by Kumo, but none the less I can respect the gesture here. Kudos to you and yours Kumo and more important Congrats to all the new happenings in RL. 

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"Our generation has had no Great Depression, no Great War. Our war is spiritual. Our depression is our lives."


Posted By: Jenin
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2014 at 17:57
From the other forum posting on this topic (at http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/a-short-treatise-on-the-early-history-of-illyriad_topic5454_page1.html) I spent quite a bit of time reading a lot of partial facts and attempts to clarify the conflicts which have come to a head over NC.  Mind you as a victim of their "play"; I can lend a bit of perspective with that regard; but I found that Halcyon pretty much summed it up:  

"22 Feb 2014 at 09:25
Before the war Dark and Harmless were still allies and we conveyed to H? leadership our unwillingness to stand by while NC continued their campaign of aggression. The answer was always the same: any action against NC will result in full support to them by H? and The Coalition.
When H? leadership declared war on EE they did so in support of NC and TVM and were beginning to make good upon that promise/threat.
They actively supported NC and TVM aggression and have no real cause to claim the high moral ground.
They expected to win this war as they did all those who came before it. They were wrong.
While Illyriad and Elgea will be poorer without H?, NC, TVM and Dlords, if these alliances remain active after the war, they surely need to consider a major change in leadership. Arrogance fueled by past victories led them into very poor choices. They were not the benevolent rulers who HM is attempting to paint them."

Frankly I was contacted by Janosh in the early days of the confederation and while in charge of diplomacy in OCON, had grave misgivings as to the unwillingness of both to modernize their stance over the 10 square rule; which even as early as January of 2012 was squeezing new players excessively over land that would never be used; and therefore turned overtures by both down.  Because of abuse by newbs of training alliances of larger ones and the aggression by non-allied farm accounts of both; we had to take a strong stand as well in our training alliance Plantagenet.  I think that we can trace the whole of this current conflagration to the greed over the new special resources as well as the 10 space rule.  Both represent a mentality of "I was here 1st and do not have to share" & I think we need to temper that a bit.  

I think the 10 square rule should be reduced to 8 & we cease this scorched earth policy which began with Black & continued with the likes of players once or now contained in the alliance NC.  That NS (their training alli) cheers them on so often and actively participated in the dog pile on SirRazer at the start of the NC-BANE war is still troubling; as is the frequency of training alliance leaders forgetting to educate their players in basic diplomacy, such as ask first and don't attack ANY player for ANY reason without permission.  We have a lot to do to keep this a fully newb friendly game (which is why I and many of my alli-mates are still here 2+ years after becoming an Evony SS66 refugees).  I am still extremely proud to be an Illy player, but have to admit seeing GC denigrate to the likes of Evony was sad - no way I could have my grandson be playing here with me seeing that stuff.  I am glad that is turning around a bit, but the forums still have plenty of that vitriol.  Let's come to terms with the major irritants that keep fueling war, why don't we?  

The 10 square rule needs to be the first to be examined in my opinion.... I'd like to see replies to this post and some thoughts on what the irritants have been, not who said what, please?


Posted By: Epidemic
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2014 at 19:05
The 10 square rule, which isn't an actually square, should be increased and not decreased. I think 10.999 should be considered 10.
There are hundreds of dead city building strategy games out there where players are stacked on top of each other, Illy will follow them the instant the whole map becomes just like the newb circle.


Posted By: abstractdream
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2014 at 00:44
Jenin: I think you should start a new thread for this discussion.

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Bonfyr Verboo


Posted By: DDL
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2014 at 07:18
Originally posted by Epidemic Epidemic wrote:

People will read whatever they want to read into what someone says, be it positive or negative.

I'm sure i'll probably be sieged out the the game and go down in new Illy history as a 'gc troll' because of what I say, though most will ignore the fact I was also vocally against the trove war.

Only thing I can do is stay the person I am, ignore the threats and taunts, and play a game the way I want to...with no fear of what I say being misinterpreted to be used against those around me.

I know I can speak for most of Illy in saying that we want no part of a game where you get attacked for joking around in gc, roleplaying, having heated discussions or pretty much anything else done in gc or igm.

Me, me, me, me, me!


Posted By: Le Roux
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2014 at 16:23
Originally posted by Epidemic Epidemic wrote:

The 10 square rule, which isn't an actually square, should be increased and not decreased. I think 10.999 should be considered 10.
There are hundreds of dead city building strategy games out there where players are stacked on top of each other, Illy will follow them the instant the whole map becomes just like the newb circle.
 
; )  ... and you still cling to your interpretation doggedly . . .  it was enough to nearly cause your demise in the past  ( more calmly handled on our side than yours, you must admit ) . . .  even stubborn dwarves should be able to accept the fact that, at least on this count, there can be a clearly wrong side of an argument . . .
 
Certainly the "10 square rule" has utterly no hope of expanding,  I do indeed see the rationale for it to shrink, to the extent that perhaps even the hard coded game mechanics could be detuned a bit.  A game supported 7.5 or 8 square exodus/tenaril cap could be well supported now, and perhaps even avoid some future confrontations.
 
(Except of course with certain blockheaded dwarves)


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Posted By: BellusRex
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2014 at 20:21
Originally posted by Le Roux Le Roux wrote:

 
Certainly the "10 square rule" has utterly no hope of expanding,  I do indeed see the rationale for it to shrink, to the extent that perhaps even the hard coded game mechanics could be detuned a bit.  A game supported 7.5 or 8 square exodus/tenaril cap could be well supported now, and perhaps even avoid some future confrontations.
 
(Except of course with certain blockheaded dwarves)

I have no problem with someone within 8 squares of me, or even 7 if they have courtesy enough to ask if it's a problem. Maybe this is because my head is more rounded as opposed to the block type....Smile


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"War is the father of all things..."


Posted By: Tatharion
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2014 at 02:08
Originally posted by KillerPoodle KillerPoodle wrote:

Originally posted by Tatharion Tatharion wrote:

Now, I will renew yet again my call for peace in Elgea:


Coming from someone who was agitating for VIC to join the war against H?  I find this hypocritical.

KP, in all seriousness, why do you really feel the need to antagonise the only few that have not declared against you? Does this make you feel like you're holding the moral high grounds? 

It's absolutely correct, I personally bear no sympathy for H? since the previous war. I have been quite open about it. It's human; we surrendered to your alliance after losing a war that was imposed on us and for which we were unprepared as we were participating in a tournament.   

In truth, this game doesn't need a higher "authority" that self-righteously decides of what is good and what is evil in Elgea. And yet I have been openly calling for peace for several months now. We need more players in Illyriad, not less... and you do have a duty as a leader to allow this to happen.


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Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong.


Posted By: Deranzin
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2014 at 11:04
Originally posted by Tatharion Tatharion wrote:

We need more players in Illyriad, not less... and you do have a duty as a leader to allow this to happen.


Is this duty (to be) shared by all the alliance leaders, in your opinion .?.


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Just like a "before and after" ad ! ahahahaah :p



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