Should we use King Sigurd to bring peace to Illy?
Printed From: Illyriad
Category: The World
Forum Name: Politics & Diplomacy
Forum Description: If you run an alliance on Elgea, here's where you should make your intentions public.
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=5433
Printed Date: 17 Apr 2022 at 14:44 Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Should we use King Sigurd to bring peace to Illy?
Posted By: Caconafyx
Subject: Should we use King Sigurd to bring peace to Illy?
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2014 at 20:30
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Just a germ of an idea rattling through the emptiness that is my head...
The current war has gone on for long enough, the Consone War went on for 6 months. We have gone from being a peaceful, benign group of players to a war game with brief interludes of peace.
So I was wondering what the support for using the mythical King Sigurd (ruler of Elgea) would be to stop wars.
My suggestion would be that King Sigurd personally intervenes in a war 90 days after one alliance declares war on another and simply prevents conflict. Armies blockading or sieging a town would be sent home, armies that meet on the battlefield would not be allowed to engage followed by an enforced 90 day period of peace, when hopefully heads can cool down a bit.
(The enforced period of peace would not preclude NPC hunting or involvement in tournaments.)
You only have to look at GC at the moment to see that there is a lot of emotion, too many people that would rather see the world burn around them than put out the fires. More importantly, there are too many people leaving the game.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on this or alternative ideas
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Replies:
Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2014 at 20:39
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King Sigurd is no king! He is a pretender and a front for the Council of Illyria.
Hail the Undying Flame!
I'm all for factions (including even Siggie) doing stuff, but I don't think the system should intervene to change the way players interact with each other, unless they are violating the Code of Conduct or Terms of Service.
Probably when factions go live that will have some effect on pvp just by the very nature of it. (People might be more cautious about losing their last army sieging someone when they know that the Melders are lurking, just waiting for an opportunity.) But I'm not sure that it should occur in a way that is INTENDED to influence player behavior one way or the other.
There would be a lot of unintended consequences to a de facto 90-day limit on wars. A lot more undeclared wars, and perhaps a lot more vicious fighting early on. Plus people would sign peace just to start up again even sooner than they already do.
I DO wish that we as players could come up with better options to winning gracefully and losing gracefully. In other words, how does one conduct and win or lose a war in a way that encourages people to stay in the game rather than leaving it.
But that's really up to the people involved. I'd be most interested in creative ideas in that direction.
One idea I've had is for people to agree on limited war aims at the beginning of a conflict. The fact that wars tend to break out because people can't agree in the first place would make this difficult. But it would be great to see the folks who enjoy war to put on a war with agreed-upon goals like "first person to raze 10 cities wins." I'm sure there would be argument from people who think that all-out mass destruction is more fun, but I think it could be an interesting exercise.
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Posted By: Aurordan
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2014 at 20:42
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I think this is really interesting, actually. If Sigurd is even going to maintain a facade of legitimacy, it would stand to reason that the Council's faction behavior should involve attempting to keep the peace, at least in many areas. I do think you should be able to "fight though" him, but it would be a very interesting mechanic if his units would at some point get off their bottoms and try to maintain order.
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Posted By: Dwrwd
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2014 at 21:05
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Increasing upkeep and building cost of attacking units (especially siege engines and T2 diplomats) is an easy and effective way to discourage a war, imho.
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Posted By: bansisdead
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2014 at 21:49
trade/arms embargo's, international sanctions?
------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/124253" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: BBC
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2014 at 22:14
Why do we need the king? Cant something like this be worked out by us, the real foundation of the game? Im sure if we try hard enough at least a bit of progress could be made. Im not saying 90 days, but 5 or even pushing it to, 10 days at least. That's not impossible or too much to ask is it? We have to make the difference, not some cardboard cut-out of a king Just give it some thought
------------- BlackBloodedChampion "Will Work for War"
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Posted By: The Electrocutioner
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2014 at 22:22
Caconafyx wrote:
My suggestion would be that King Sigurd personally intervenes in a war 90 days after one alliance declares war on another and simply prevents conflict. Armies blockading or sieging a town would be sent home, armies that meet on the battlefield would not be allowed to engage followed by an enforced 90 day period of peace, when hopefully heads can cool down a bit.
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This is a pipe dream, my friend. The devs are simply not going to do this, or anything like it. They have set up the world as they have, and it's up to us to live together in peace, or not, as we see fit.
If you look at the history of changes they've made to the game, they have deliberately done things to increase conflict, not decrease it. And in BL (if it ever becomes a reality), they have made a safe zone for players like yourself who want to be free of the possibility of war. So they are looking out for players who like either style of play.
Your proposition comes from the point of view that peace is better than war. But that's just your opinion, not an objective fact. The devs allow for all styles of play here, and that's one of the things I love about this game!
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Posted By: Caconafyx
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2014 at 22:55
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Oh it's not that I have a problem with war per se. I have a problem with us not being able to bring it to a logical conclusion and timely end.
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Posted By: bansisdead
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2014 at 23:30
The Electrocutioner wrote:
The devs allow for all styles of play here, and that's one of the things I love about this game! |
So your playing style doesn't affect anothers playing style? The only games which allow you to play a game how you wish without impacting on others is a single player game. The devs also set rules and codes of conduct which impede certain play styles. This premise is a myth.
------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/124253" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2014 at 01:29
Caconafyx wrote:
Oh it's not that I have a problem with war per se. I have a problem with us not being able to bring it to a logical conclusion and timely end. | Cities take forever to build (without prestige), so it's unsurprising that wars should take a long time in this game. I think accelerating the "logical end" of conflict would encourage people to be more destructive, not less. Personally I don't really have a problem with alliances fighting, especially since it seems that individuals are allowed to leave prior to wars or even surrender personally to limit damage. I only really object to the verbal drama in GC, since it tends to drown out all other civilized interaction (largely due to a small handful of players who are completely unable to exercise even the slightest hint of decorum).
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Posted By: Epidemic
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2014 at 03:04
Its a good idea for the devs to step in and limit the destruction of a war, because nobody but a few diehards and newbs will be left if war becomes the norm.
It takes way too long to build up your cities and it takes less than a day to take them all down, if done right.
Sure, I can buy prestige to constantly rebuild my towns, but why would I want to do that when its much cheaper to play other games that allow scripts and such if you pay to play.
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Posted By: scaramouche
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2014 at 08:54
already I have seen 2 or 3 alliances stop fighting as shown by their declarations in the forums...this is a sign that the war slowing down and possibly coming to an end in the near future]....who needs King Sigurd?
------------- NO..I dont do the Fandango!
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Posted By: Alcie
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2014 at 17:19
king Sigurd is not mythical though xD His capital is here:
http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/World/Map/-3/-3
I am all for there being a more complicated diplomacy system. But having an actual dev step in seems unecesary. Something automatic would be better. Maybe a penalty such as an alliance tax against alliances who have been warring too long for 'disrupting the peace of the land' or some such.
Alternatively perhaps factions would start disliing you simply for being so warlike.
Something that might discourage war from lasting forever but not actually rule it out would be a good compromise.
Also.. a more official system for temporary cease fire, surrender terms, etc. might be interesting.
If someone has more thought-out suggestions of a system that would be fun/useful and easy to implement, I would be interested to see suggestions. If they are good enough maybe the devs will add it to their near infinite list of future additions xD
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Posted By: Le Roux
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2014 at 20:41
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Seems to be a solution looking to find a problem, it already seems the war is indeed dying down given the number of those agreeing to exit the war. Today it is indeed a much smaller affair than it was a week ago....
Although I doubt the remaining parties will follow the same route, my guess is that the war will not go on as long as everyone feared... nor will it result in the utter destruction so hyped in the forums and in GC...
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Posted By: Miklabjarnir
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2014 at 04:30
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Lack of war will lead to a serious problem for Illy economy. As it is, gold and resources are continuously being created out of nothing. The only effective way to drain the excess gold from the economy is to use it to build and maintain armies.
On the other hand, fielding armies is far too easy, especially for a pre-gunpowder setting. Sieges in that period should last for months, not days. Armies should suffer attrition just from being away from home.
Since they have a carrying capacity, they should need to carry their own food supply. Depending on terrain and season, foraging could slow down the food drain - but winter campaigns and campaigns in low-food areas should be much more difficult. This way, there would at least be a pause in hostilities when armies cannot be resupplied and head home in protest.
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Posted By: Aurordan
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2014 at 04:36
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I don't want to get caught up in politics or specifics, but I think it would be intuitive if certain factions behaved in such a way as to try and keep the peace in their area of influence.
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Posted By: Angrim
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2014 at 06:38
Aurordan wrote:
I don't want to get caught up in politics or specifics, but I think it would be intuitive if certain factions behaved in such a way as to try and keep the peace in their area of influence. | this shows some promise. i don't want to see a deadline for war imposed by the devs, but i wouldn't mind seeing faction ai consider war participation. if, for example, the Council of Illyria prefers that everyone get along in their region, they might become increasingly hostile to an alliance based on casualties inflicted in their sphere of influence.
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Posted By: Hora
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2014 at 14:07
Miklabjarnir wrote:
Lack of war will lead to a serious problem for Illy economy. As it is, gold and resources are continuously being created out of nothing. The only effective way to drain the excess gold from the economy is to use it to build and maintain armies.
On the other hand, fielding armies is far too easy, especially for a pre-gunpowder setting. Sieges in that period should last for months, not days. Armies should suffer attrition just from being away from home.
Since they have a carrying capacity, they should need to carry their own food supply. Depending on terrain and season, foraging could slow down the food drain - but winter campaigns and campaigns in low-food areas should be much more difficult. This way, there would at least be a pause in hostilities when armies cannot be resupplied and head home in protest. |
I really hope to see such features as soon as Pathfinding is alive... hard to do that without armies being able to destroy enemy or protect friendly food/weapon logistics... All in all, those restrictions will again give a more territorial (and perhaps more realistic) warfare with oh so much new tactical options! (I'd like!)
A direct intervention IMO would put the DEVS even more in the line of fire... it's hard to make fair decisions, and once you made one, it will affect decisions for ALL the following wars and players will seek ways to use or avoid this,... best to restrain from that...
And about factions trying to maintain the peace... if we get those, be prepared to also see warliking factions to join in the fight to players paying them money, or just for plundering =) Everything could happen...
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Posted By: Dwrwd
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2014 at 21:52
Miklabjarnir wrote:
Armies should suffer attrition just from being away from home.
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Alcie wrote:
factions would start disliking you simply for being so warlike.
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I think these are the best ideas proposed so far
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Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2014 at 23:00
Don't the faction ratings from -100 to +100 already imply faction involvement with local players? They seem likely to attack the cities and camps of enemy players. It's also implied that they could support armies, reinforce cities, or break sieges for players they like. The quest mechanism offers a way to ingratiate yourself to certain factions (although some, like the Melders, might be permanently hostile).
To date, the faction forces on the map have been tiny. But if factions could field large armies, it could really slow down sieges in distant territories, where players are closely aligned with local factions. However, that would make Illyriad much less of a player-driven sandbox, and more of a quest and faction-centric game.
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