Print Page | Close Window

Discussing the Current War

Printed From: Illyriad
Category: The World
Forum Name: Politics & Diplomacy
Forum Description: If you run an alliance on Elgea, here's where you should make your intentions public.
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=5289
Printed Date: 29 Sep 2020 at 11:47
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Discussing the Current War
Posted By: Aral
Subject: Discussing the Current War
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2013 at 00:24
With the declaration of war on Tcol by Vcrow and Ucrow, the number of combatants in the current war increased dramatically.  Tcol's allies, DB, BSH and T-O, were all quick to declare on Vcrow after their declaration, which means that over 10 alliances (From biggest to smallest:  Vcrow, Tcol, EE, T-O, ~NC~, XckX, Ucrow, TVM, DB, ALT, BSH, and RE) are now involved.  This raises some questions:

  • Who should we look to to declare next?  
  • Can this be considered a "world" war?  
  • What will this mean for the next tournament/the dev's hopes for the broken lands?  
  • Will this war raise or lower the amount of players?  
  • What other consequences will war have? 
  • Will pointless speculation keep players interested, or only offer another thread in which players can bait and insult one another?




-------------
Aral Llc is not responsible for any grievous bodily harm sustained while reading this signature. No rights reserved.



Replies:
Posted By: Angrim
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2013 at 01:01
  • Will pointless speculation keep players interested, or only offer another thread in which players can bait and insult one another?

(sorry, couldn't resist.)



Posted By: Aral
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2013 at 01:10
I've edited my original post to reflect you relevant and discussion-worthy question, Angrim.  

-------------
Aral Llc is not responsible for any grievous bodily harm sustained while reading this signature. No rights reserved.


Posted By: Darmon
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2013 at 01:19

Originally posted by Epidemic Epidemic wrote:

You should add ALT to the mix and differentiate between the wars. I think it's at least 3 separate wars.

I was gonna say.  If there was a diagram of the wars, it wouldn't just be like Side A versus Side B.  At this point it seems to be multiple smaller conflicts playing out, with a few people involved in more than one.



Posted By: Aral
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2013 at 01:19
Originally posted by Epidemic Epidemic wrote:

I think it's at least 3 separate wars.

Only one war, as far as I'm aware.  


-------------
Aral Llc is not responsible for any grievous bodily harm sustained while reading this signature. No rights reserved.


Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2013 at 01:31
As far as I've seen it is one concerted aggressive effort by EE/UCrow/Vcrow & allies against NC and anyone who will stand with them...


Posted By: Darmon
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2013 at 01:40

Originally posted by Kumomoto Kumomoto wrote:

As far as I've seen it is one concerted aggressive effort by EE/UCrow/Vcrow & allies against NC and anyone who will stand with them...

There seems to be some separate business going one with the Dominion now too.  =\



Posted By: Starry
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2013 at 01:42
No it is all one war by design, those that saw the post Hath so generously shared with us on his forum, know what is really going on.    Time to be honest about motives and attacking smaller alliances is well...you all know what it is.

Edit:   Geez, this is a pain on the forum....I was responding to Epi's post


-------------
CEO, Harmless?
Founder of Toothless?

"Truth never dies."
-HonoredMule



Posted By: Epidemic
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2013 at 01:58
You should add ALT to the mix and differentiate between the wars. I think it's at least 3 separate wars.


Posted By: belargyle
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2013 at 03:28
Nope, NOT 3 separate wars, but 3 different wars with the same agenda and players to bring about a particular outcome.


Posted By: blazing arrow
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2013 at 06:30
Once again the "pawns" have been thrown in first to instigate and literally force a group of players/alliances into war just because some ppl have a threat perception...Clap

I ve been here for some time now...more than a couple of years actually...
Some similarities strike me on the turn of events that are taking place now.. and the
 
Valar war
Consone war

Coincidentally in both the two mentioned it was the alleged "unholy alliance/confeds" that took on smaller alliances and ppl joined in to "save the Illy world" and free it from the aggressors..LOL

Coincident II- In both the cases it was the alliance in second place that were the aggressors ..who somehow only on reaching the second place had this unholy thoughts...I wonder if there is something terribly wrong in the second place..
Alliances suddenly turn violent on reaching that stage

All the drama of the newb attack,trove mine and now this has been carefully staged/orchestrated to plan a specific outcome... the forum hue n cry that was staged earlier and now...If you dont believe me read the posts you will find a distinct similarity in the cases

Disclaimer. This is just me expressing my opinion Wink




Posted By: Darmon
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2013 at 07:12
Oh, I'm sure there's some sort of intrigue going on here.  I'm just not entirely clear on who's pressing the agenda, since it seems to be the same 2 factions involved over and over again (sometimes, out of necessity, in different incarnations).


Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2013 at 16:56
most peeps fight in wars out of boredom, they couldnt care less of all the bs, nothing is more fun than matching wits with a fellow human being or a vampire...tries to find her fangs


Posted By: DeathDealer89
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2013 at 16:57
Actually Darmon has the most amusing point.  Valar has been involved in all those wars.  

Perhaps we should start calling the wars Valar War 1 and VWII and VWIII

Simple naming convention :D


Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2013 at 17:41
It's pretty simple.  Ditto and Tama have a list of alliances who they think should be "dealt" with over some slight or other (mostly hot headed over-reaction after not getting their way from their own poor diplomacy). 

So they've teamed up with Valar and EE who have grudges to settle over the last war (and the one before in Valar's case).

And finally Dark/Bane will probably join in because NC embarrassed Halcyon's bestie Malek in the Bane/NC war and also because Malek and Haly are drinking Ditto's "OMG NC are awful" koolaid.

So you have a bunch of folks who are engineering a war to suit their own purposes and have been desperately trying to spin it to get popular opinion on their side and hopefully get some more allies as backup for their aggressive aims.

Obviously it backfired quite a lot when Hath posted something in a public section of his forum about all the allies he had (most of whom had no idea they were his allies) and someone leaked it to GC. 

Hath, as we've seen before, is categorically incapable of admitting responsibility for anything and is now claiming it was a hack - which is a desperate attempt to deflect attention away from his pretty poor scheming.


-------------
"This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM

"a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill


Posted By: Halcyon
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2013 at 18:34
Originally posted by KillerPoodle KillerPoodle wrote:

OMG NC are awful
 +1



Posted By: Nokigon
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2013 at 19:04
Originally posted by Halcyon Halcyon wrote:

Originally posted by KillerPoodle KillerPoodle wrote:

OMG NC are awful
 +1

I spent the entire day with a 6 year old today, and nothing that he did was anywhere near as petty as this.


Posted By: Halcyon
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2013 at 19:12
It appears that humor is dead inside the Cave...
btw, aren't dwarves supposed to be petty?
Cheers.


Posted By: Angrim
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2013 at 19:23
Originally posted by Halcyon Halcyon wrote:

btw, aren't dwarves supposed to be petty?
i think you mean pretty.


Posted By: Darkwords
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2013 at 22:11
Originally posted by Kumomoto Kumomoto wrote:

As far as I've seen it is one concerted aggressive effort by EE/UCrow/Vcrow & allies against NC and anyone who will stand with them...


Shoulda gone to specsavers


Posted By: Myr
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2013 at 22:47
RE was left off the initial posting of alliances. Don't forget the littlest combatants!


Posted By: Meagh
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2013 at 01:28
Originally posted by Angrim Angrim wrote:

Originally posted by Halcyon Halcyon wrote:

btw, aren't dwarves supposed to be petty?
i think you mean pretty.

surly not...


-------------


Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2013 at 01:38
Whatever you do don't call them Shirley.

-------------
"This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM

"a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill


Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2013 at 02:47
/me gears up the brewing sov.

I look forward to mercilessly price gouging dealing fairly with you all in the sale of frothy beverages.


Posted By: belargyle
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2013 at 03:12
Oh no you didn't KP.... OH NO YOU DIDN'T!!


Posted By: Captain Kindly
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2013 at 04:25
I am going to watch The Longest Day now.

It has better drama than shown in here :P

Kumo might make a good Pluskat though.

j/k Kumo


-------------
http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/60249" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Darmon
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2013 at 06:30
Originally posted by KillerPoodle KillerPoodle wrote:

It's pretty simple.  Ditto and Tama have a list of alliances who they think should be "dealt" with over some slight or other (mostly hot headed over-reaction after not getting their way from their own poor diplomacy). 

So they've teamed up with Valar and EE who have grudges to settle over the last war (and the one before in Valar's case).

Are you sure?  In the case of EE, it doesn't really seem like teaming up if they aren't even fighting the same people.  Or do you suppose they've divided the list up to make it more manageable?  I'm not really sure how long such a list would be; but if there were a lot of names, it might be better not to fight them all at once.

Originally posted by KillerPoodle KillerPoodle wrote:

And finally Dark/Bane will probably join in because NC embarrassed Halcyon's bestie Malek in the Bane/NC war and also because Malek and Haly are drinking Ditto's "OMG NC are awful" koolaid.

Shouldn't we not accuse people of things they haven't done yet?  The way you put it (that is, tauntingly) almost seems like you want them to pile on...

Originally posted by KillerPoodle KillerPoodle wrote:

So you have a bunch of folks who are engineering a war to suit their own purposes and have been desperately trying to spin it to get popular opinion on their side and hopefully get some more allies as backup for their aggressive aims.

I'm not sure they've been trying very hard.  Despite the messy business that was the Consone War, I can at least say this: back then, people knew how to vent on the forums and/or GC.  At least I had some idea of what was going on in global politics (even if both sides were churning out propaganda).  Now it's hard to care one way or the other, since it just seems like small-scale disagreements playing out.

Originally posted by KillerPoodle KillerPoodle wrote:

Obviously it backfired quite a lot when Hath posted something in a public section of his forum about all the allies he had (most of whom had no idea they were his allies) and someone leaked it to GC. 

Hath, as we've seen before, is categorically incapable of admitting responsibility for anything and is now claiming it was a hack - which is a desperate attempt to deflect attention away from his pretty poor scheming.

I think I actually saw that thread, though I'm not sure I made much of it at the time.  I'm also not sure that the part about allies was the bit that stuck with me.  I think it was the part about the opportunity to settle old grudges that resonated, since that seemed like a strange thing to say.

He says it was a hack though, huh?  Well, that's new news to me.  I suppose such a thing could be possible, but wouldn't he also be accusing someone in particular of such activity?


Posted By: AZADICAN
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2013 at 09:29
Originally posted by DeathDealer89 DeathDealer89 wrote:

Actually Darmon has the most amusing point.  Valar has been involved in all those wars.  

Perhaps we should start calling the wars Valar War 1 and VWII and VWIII

Simple naming convention :D
LOL 
This is the most amusing post I've ever seen. If only J.R.R. Tolkien was alive to see this, he would probably write a new bestseller: "The wars of Valar" LOL


-------------


Posted By: Gragnog
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2013 at 09:48
Ok, this is just confusing. Can someone with more patience and skill please just put up a list of who is on one side and who is on the other? Leave out the reasons for the war and just let everyone pick a side and get on with it. Grunts like me and most of the players probably do not really care who is right or wrong, just that someone hates someone else and now our hard produced troops are needed to go die for a cause that has no right or wrong. We all know cities are going to burn, players are going to get upset, and lots of time is going to wasted. Best thing is to try keep a sense humour, do not try to eradicate a player totally, and try have some fun through the whole thing.

-------------
Kaggen is my human half


Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2013 at 12:58
Based on the diplomacy pages, a list for Gragnog (in rough order of time):

RE vs XckX
(TVM players join RE)
~NC~ vs XckX
ALT vs ~NC~
uCrow vs ~NC~
EE vs TVM

uCrow vs Tcol
vCrow vs Tcol
BSH, T-O, DB vs vCrow

So approximately it's RE, ~NC~, TVM, Tcol, DB, T-O, BSH fighting against XckX, ALT, uCrow, vCrow, EE.


Posted By: Salararius
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2013 at 13:39
Originally posted by Gragnog Gragnog wrote:

Ok, this is just confusing. Can someone with more patience and skill please just put up a list of who is on one side and who is on the other? Leave out the reasons for the war and just let everyone pick a side and get on with it. Grunts like me and most of the players probably do not really care who is right or wrong, just that someone hates someone else and now our hard produced troops are needed to go die for a cause that has no right or wrong. We all know cities are going to burn, players are going to get upset, and lots of time is going to wasted. Best thing is to try keep a sense humour, do not try to eradicate a player totally, and try have some fun through the whole thing.

Thumbs UpThumbs Up

The most honest H? post yet.  I don't care about you, you or you and your petty problems.  I just want to go to a virtual world and destroy virtual stuff and do so with all my peeps.

Pathetically myopic, but genuinely honest which is at least a start.



Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2013 at 15:14
Quote
Are you sure?  In the case of EE, it doesn't really seem like teaming up if they aren't even fighting the same people.


The plan was to declare on someone small and then cry foul when an ally came to their aid to garner sympathy and support to their side.  They kinda messed that up by forgetting that they signed an agreement not to be hostile to TVM and are basically going back on their word.

Quote
Shouldn't we not accuse people of things they haven't done yet?  The way you put it (that is, tauntingly) almost seems like you want them to pile on


I can see how it would look like that from where you are. However based on the recent discussions outside of GC/Forum it seems like it's pretty much a done deal - they might decide to chicken out, you never know. Besides, deflating any potential surprise announcement ahead of time is fun :)

Quote
I'm not sure they've been trying very hard.  Despite the messy business that was the Consone War, I can at least say this: back then, people knew how to vent on the forums and/or GC.


In public it's been reasonably quiet - just some abuse towards NC and H? in GC.  Behind the scene's it's been a lot more active.

Quote
I think it was the part about the opportunity to settle old grudges that resonated, since that seemed like a strange thing to say.

He says it was a hack though, huh?  Well, that's new news to me.  I suppose such a thing could be possible, but wouldn't he also be accusing someone in particular of such activity?


He accused H? in GC of hacking to try to deflect away from his screw up.  EE have grudges against both TVM and H? from the Consone war.  It's clear they only surrendered to get built back up to try again.


-------------
"This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM

"a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill


Posted By: Aurordan
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2013 at 16:27
Everyone's planning to attack you, and if they don't, it's because they chickened out?  It's simply not possible that these alliances might just not have any intentions to attack H?? (There's no good way to end a sentence with a word with punctuation in it, it there?)


Posted By: Gragnog
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2013 at 07:57
Originally posted by Salararius Salararius wrote:

Originally posted by Gragnog Gragnog wrote:

Ok, this is just confusing. Can someone with more patience and skill please just put up a list of who is on one side and who is on the other? Leave out the reasons for the war and just let everyone pick a side and get on with it. Grunts like me and most of the players probably do not really care who is right or wrong, just that someone hates someone else and now our hard produced troops are needed to go die for a cause that has no right or wrong. We all know cities are going to burn, players are going to get upset, and lots of time is going to wasted. Best thing is to try keep a sense humour, do not try to eradicate a player totally, and try have some fun through the whole thing.

Thumbs UpThumbs Up

The most honest H? post yet.  I don't care about you, you or you and your petty problems.  I just want to go to a virtual world and destroy virtual stuff and do so with all my peeps.

Pathetically myopic, but genuinely honest which is at least a start.


Again with the big word plays. Why not just come out and say "Gragnog you are a moron who likes to play a war game, but at least you are honest about it". 


-------------
Kaggen is my human half


Posted By: Darmon
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2013 at 08:23
Originally posted by KillerPoodle KillerPoodle wrote:

The plan was to declare on someone small and then cry foul when an ally came to their aid to garner sympathy and support to their side.  They kinda messed that up by forgetting that they signed an agreement not to be hostile to TVM and are basically going back on their word.

I'm guessing that was some sort of agreement involved in ending the Consone War.  Was there any sort of time-frame attached to that, or was it just like "never be hostile to TVM again, even if they try to provoke it" type of deal?

I'm not suggesting that's the case, just confused because the terms of the peace treaties were intentionally kept secret.  It seems a lot easier to win the public's support if people generally don't know that you're doing something you agreed not to.

Also, I suspect trying to dictate another alliance's politics through wars is a bad investment.  You know how that forbidden fruit always seems so much more delicious...

Originally posted by KillerPoodle KillerPoodle wrote:

I can see how it would look like that from where you are. However based on the recent discussions outside of GC/Forum it seems like it's pretty much a done deal - they might decide to chicken out, you never know. Besides, deflating any potential surprise announcement ahead of time is fun :)

I wish people would announce things in here like they used to (I'm guessing those epic threads were a bit discouraging).  Or that there was some sort of visual aspect to current wars (where's that guy who made that crazy interactive war web when you need him?).  I'm guessing H?'s involvement will make staying out a lot harder for people that were already on the fence.

Originally posted by KillerPoodle KillerPoodle wrote:

In public it's been reasonably quiet - just some abuse towards NC and H? in GC.  Behind the scene's it's been a lot more active.

Maybe I'm glad for that.  I don't usually go into GC anymore because during wartime that place very quickly becomes a nasty verbal brawl.  Which on the one hand, sheds a lot of light on what's going on with other alliances, but on the other is usually skewed wildly in favor of whoever is ranting at the moment.

Originally posted by KillerPoodle KillerPoodle wrote:

He accused H? in GC of hacking to try to deflect away from his screw up.  EE have grudges against both TVM and H? from the Consone war.  It's clear they only surrendered to get built back up to try again.

So, is he saying that it wasn't him that made that post, or that it was supposed to be private?  My guess would be the first one, since the second is like "well, I'm sorry you saw that but not sorry I said it" which doesn't usually win people sympathy.

That aside, didn't other prominent people in EE respond in that thread?  So does that mean he wants people to believe that multiple accounts got hacked?  At some point it just becomes so far-fetched that it wouldn't be believable anymore.


Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2013 at 12:42

There were no specific timelines mentioned but in many cases the discussions did touch on what would happen if a Consone alliance had just cause to re-enter conflict - in which case we agreed that was fine.  In fact in many cases we agreed that we would come to their aid if anyone tried to take advantage of their "weakened post war state" as one leader put it.   The point is moot however since Hath stated very clearly that this was revenge and has no additional cause.

He did not deny it - merely claimed that the exposure of his genuine post was a hack as a way to try to deflect people from paying attention to the message:  That Hath and others have been plotting for a big war for months.


-------------
"This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM

"a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill


Posted By: Darmon
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2013 at 01:22
Originally posted by KillerPoodle KillerPoodle wrote:

There were no specific timelines mentioned but in many cases the discussions did touch on what would happen if a Consone alliance had just cause to re-enter conflict - in which case we agreed that was fine.  In fact in many cases we agreed that we would come to their aid if anyone tried to take advantage of their "weakened post war state" as one leader put it.   The point is moot however since Hath stated very clearly that this was revenge and has no additional cause.


So, it's sort of a disagreement over what constitutes "just cause."  Do you imagine future peace agreements will touch on that point more specifically?  I mean, I assume Hath was the one that agreed to whatever settlement was reached, so it seems fairly strange for him to think that promoting it as a revenge war would be a good idea.  Maybe spelling it out a little more clearly wouldn't have helped, though.

Originally posted by KillerPoodle KillerPoodle wrote:

He did not deny it - merely claimed that the exposure of his genuine post was a hack as a way to try to deflect people from paying attention to the message:  That Hath and others have been plotting for a big war for months.

Well, I saw the thread and didn't see anything from his PR team.  So clearly they need to work on their channels a little better.  I think it'll be interesting to see how long it takes to plan a successful war.  I mean, how many months of planning does it take to win one of these things?  Or do you suppose having that post leaked probably forced them to move up their timetable, and things won't be as fleshed-out as they planned?


Posted By: JimJams
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2013 at 17:16
This thread is named "Discussing the current war".

Well here my comment.

IT SUCKS

People who I consider friends are around me with red flags.
Alliances who fought aside to us are now declaring on us (and I still don't understand why: I see Hatha plan but I still don't get why other are in...)

I am personally disappointed with a lot of people.

Not only, but any way it goes, any way it ends, in the end the majority of people in the game will have some hate against a lot of others. This server will have so many personal grunge and hate. So much it could even not survive.

bah, at least I am having trouble in RL which will make me forget about this mess.

bye


-------------


Posted By: geofrey
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2013 at 18:37
Any cities lost?

-------------
http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/45534" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: ES2
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2013 at 18:56
Originally posted by geofrey geofrey wrote:

Any cities lost?

I believe Stop-Hammertime lost a city or two.


-------------




Posted By: Halcyon
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2013 at 18:58
Originally posted by JimJams JimJams wrote:


IT SUCKS

People who I consider friends are around me with red flags.
Alliances who fought aside to us are now declaring on us (and I still don't understand why: I see Hatha plan but I still don't get why other are in...)

I am personally disappointed with a lot of people.


I will post soon in another thread how Dark and our new allies see this war. It will be named "Why we are fighting".

Dark is responsible for razing at least a couple of Hath alt's cities in the Consone- Coalition war, but you don't see him fighting Dark. There is a reason for this. This was in the past. The present brings us together in a common cause into which we were very much pushed.

I too am personally disappointed and have been so for quite sometime, but you directors never listend. So we come to this.


Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2013 at 19:22
We listened very well. The fact that we didn't agree with what you were saying is a different matter. I could equally accuse you of not listening to us (same goes for Ditto).

The pure and simple fact is that the new leadership of Dark decided to believe the stories of and side with their friends in Bane and Crow rather than the members of the former coalition.

You've mentioned betrayal a few times elsewhere - just remember that that first betrayal was all yours and everything has driven on from that.


Edit: Regarding your other commen - Hath is all too happy to take whatever assistance he can get - trying to read something more into that is a worthless exercise.


-------------
"This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM

"a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill


Posted By: Tordenkaffen
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2013 at 19:28
Halc...

-------------
"FYI - if you had any balls you'd be posting under your in-game name." - KP


Posted By: geofrey
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2013 at 19:29
Originally posted by ES2 ES2 wrote:

Originally posted by geofrey geofrey wrote:

Any cities lost?

I believe Stop-Hammertime lost a city or two.

Thanks. I saw he had plenty of sieges on his towns, and I'm assuming some direct siege attacks aswell. 

Looks like a similar strategy from last time... pick off the cities farthest away from aid. 

I didn't see that many casualties in attack and defense pages. I take it no one was able to reach the city in time?


-------------
http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/45534" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Halcyon
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2013 at 19:49
Originally posted by KillerPoodle KillerPoodle wrote:

We listened very well. The fact that we didn't agree with what you were saying is a different matter. I could equally accuse you of not listening to us (same goes for Ditto).

The pure and simple fact is that the new leadership of Dark decided to believe the stories of and side with their friends in Bane and Crow rather than the members of the former coalition.


Allies that don't agree for too long can't remain allies. One of us had to change our minds and as we see it, we really didn't have a choice. You did, but you never chose to tell NC: take a break.

Dark leadership is not new. Not by a long shot. We are capable of change and not because we are fooled by stories.


Posted By: Halcyon
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2013 at 19:55
Originally posted by Tordenkaffen Tordenkaffen wrote:

Halc...

??


Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2013 at 20:10
@geofrey: I wouldn't conclude that just yet. It is 20:00 server time right now. Results don't get published until the next day. I seem to recall those notices going up yesterday evening (EST). So that's like 02:00-ish server time, meaning it's today and the results aren't out yet.


Posted By: Starry
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2013 at 20:18
Originally posted by Halcyon Halcyon wrote:

Originally posted by KillerPoodle KillerPoodle wrote:

We listened very well. The fact that we didn't agree with what you were saying is a different matter. I could equally accuse you of not listening to us (same goes for Ditto).

The pure and simple fact is that the new leadership of Dark decided to believe the stories of and side with their friends in Bane and Crow rather than the members of the former coalition.


Allies that don't agree for too long can't remain allies. One of us had to change our minds and as we see it, we really didn't have a choice. You did, but you never chose to tell NC: take a break.

Dark leadership is not new. Not by a long shot. We are capable of change and not because we are fooled by stories.

Again with the stories, we approached every alliance leader on that list* and offered to discuss the NC issue, it was our intention to prevent war but your current confeds had plans in the works and nothing  would have deterred your actions.    H was very open and honest with every alliance leader.   While you may not have agreed with our stance, at least we had the integrity to give you an honest answer.    You and others cannot say the same.    You changed that is true but at the cost of your honor and integrity.  

*Hath's Open EE forum post

Edited for spelling


-------------
CEO, Harmless?
Founder of Toothless?

"Truth never dies."
-HonoredMule



Posted By: Halcyon
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2013 at 20:41
Originally posted by Starry Starry wrote:

 

Again with the stories, we approached every alliance leader on that list* and offered to discuss the NC issue, it was our intention to prevent war but your current confeds had plans in the works and nothing  would have deterred your actions.    H was very open and honest with every alliance leader.   While you may not have agreed with our stance, at least we had the integrity to give you an honest answer.    You and others cannot say the same.    You changed that is true but at the cost of your honor and integrity.  

*Hath's Open EE forum post

Edited for spelling

You had plenty of months to stop NC and did nothing. Wouldn't have cost you anything either. The only offer I'm aware of is that EE pays compensation to TVM, after TVM attacked without decalring war. What a bad joke.

My honor and integrity is as sound as yours and you claiming otherwise is the mark of the arrogance that brought us to where we are now.


Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2013 at 20:45
Originally posted by Halcyon Halcyon wrote:

You never chose to tell NC: take a break.


Speculation and incorrect.  

Furthermore in this instance they were supporting a very small alliance against a threat of elimination.  That was ignored because everyone already had their plans in motion.

NC offered CK peace but by that point you guys were all invested and so Tamaeon took over the negotiations and prevented peace from happening long enough for everyone to jump into the war.

The sad part is that the alliance you all claim to be protecting is now stuck in the war and will suffer more than if peace had been settled when NC offered it.


-------------
"This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM

"a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill


Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2013 at 20:49
Also - what of the agreement we had on Oct 8th to end the war and then silence from you.


-------------
"This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM

"a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill


Posted By: Starry
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2013 at 20:49
First of all we don't control NC, we don't control any alliance but Harmless.    Your attempt to make this all about NC is pathetic at best, it's very clear what this war is all about; at the very least be honest about it now.     

We know that this plan has been in the works for months.   Drop the act please.   

I'm not arrogant, I'm angry and dismayed at the betrayal and lies by so many.




-------------
CEO, Harmless?
Founder of Toothless?

"Truth never dies."
-HonoredMule



Posted By: Halcyon
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2013 at 21:11
Originally posted by Starry Starry wrote:


 Your attempt to make this all about NC is pathetic at best, it's very clear what this war is all about; at the very least be honest about it now.     

We know that this plan has been in the works for months.   Drop the act please.   

I'm not arrogant, I'm angry and dismayed at the betrayal and lies by so many.



I've been honest with you for months while NC continued their campagin of aggression. You say you don't control them, but when I intended to enter against them while they and TVM were attacking Bane, you did anything in your power to deter me while all I asked was for the war to end in peace that would have cost them nothing = support to NC's aggression.

Believe what you will, but expect for Soon, who is our long time confed, I never talked with any of our current allies until very recently when they realized Dark too had enough of NC's aggression.

You are angry and dismayed, but your arrogance in ignoring my repeated pleas, brought us to this place.


Posted By: Halcyon
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2013 at 21:19
Originally posted by KillerPoodle KillerPoodle wrote:

Also - what of the agreement we had on Oct 8th to end the war and then silence from you.

Too many people were too fed up with NC. These people feel very strongly that it is time they pay for their crimes. You can imagine that I was not able to be a very good NC defence lawyer.

Meantime your leadership was trying to convince Dark members to leave Dark, distance themselves from me and find safety in another alliance. It is to the credit of Dark members that to this moment none accepted your offer.


Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2013 at 21:31
Around Oct 8th?  Proof or STFU.

-------------
"This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM

"a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill


Posted By: Halcyon
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2013 at 21:41
a bit later, but before we entered the war. I'll have to look for the exact dates.


Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2013 at 22:11
i think everyone has to remember this is a silly game...in games people play against each other for fun...friends fight each other in wars...the main thing is to have fun and i feel sorry that people put real life values in something that is not reality...if people are taking this  game so serious maybe its time for them to go elsewhere like the real world and let the rest of us have fun and stop playing mind games on their fellow players...its a silly game...i hate church people...war war war!


Posted By: geofrey
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2013 at 22:35
Originally posted by Brandmeister Brandmeister wrote:

@geofrey: I wouldn't conclude that just yet. It is 20:00 server time right now. Results don't get published until the next day. I seem to recall those notices going up yesterday evening (EST). So that's like 02:00-ish server time, meaning it's today and the results aren't out yet.

Excellent point. I am interested in tracking the major battles of this war, especially as it begins. THe Herald doesn't do that good of a job of showing what all is conspiring. 


-------------
http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/45534" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2013 at 06:05
http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/why-are-we-fighting_topic5296_page2.html



Print Page | Close Window

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd. - https://www.webwiz.net