Pricing for Crafted Items
Printed From: Illyriad
Category: The World
Forum Name: Elgea
Forum Description: For everything related to the Elgea Continent
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=5266
Printed Date: 17 Apr 2022 at 08:47
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Pricing for Crafted Items
Posted By: Brandmeister
Subject: Pricing for Crafted Items
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2013 at 17:53
|
Lyken and I had an interesting discussion about crafted items the other night, and I was curious to see what everyone else thought about these two points. People buying 1000+ crafted items often request a volume discount. While that works fine in real life, I think the opposite is true in Illyriad. If you want to equip an army, then 537 pikes isn't going to achieve your goal. There is significant additional value to being able to equip a large division or entire army. There is also a convenience factor because the buyer doesn't have to assemble the arsenal piece-by-piece in Centrum. Therefore, I think a block of 10000 pikes is more valuable per unit than 537 pikes. I have also received offers where the buyer added up the current component cost, +10% for my profit. I see three logical errors with this method. First, Centrum prices can vary wildly in infrequently traded commodities. Second, there is an opportunity cost to crafting, because your Blacksmith 20 could be producing regular swords and chainmail instead of Reinforced Chainmail. Your profit needs to compensate you for that missed revenue as well. There is also the opportunity cost to having several specialized crafting buildings to accelerate crafting. Third, and most importantly, I believe that rare resource supply massively outstrips processing capacity. Collecting is almost always much faster than crafting. There are a few notable exceptions--elemental salts come to mind--but it wouldn't surprise me to learn that there is 25x more Iceheart in inventories than can be processed into crafted items. In that situation, the input material is worth far less than the finished product. Given that crafted items should also cost less than their utility cost (generally based on upkeep), I believe that there are only a few items worth making in large volumes. Those items are worth more than their component costs, cost less than their advantage vs. upkeep, and are worth more (not less) in significant quantities. |
Replies:
Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2013 at 18:18
|
You can sell at whatever price you like. People can choose to buy from you or not and other sellers can choose to undercut you or not. The reasoning behind your pricing structure is interesting but relatively immaterial given the market factors I mention above. ------------- "This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM "a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill |
Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2013 at 18:55
| KP, the process of arriving at a price is part of a transaction. As a trader I am interested in mutually beneficial transactions, and preferably a stable series of transactions over time. |
Posted By: Albatross
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2013 at 18:55
|
Yes, I've often seen high-quantity orders snapped up in preference to the lower-priced, smaller orders. The variables are already there in the listings; you just have to look for them. Any sellers wanting to price like that will need to create more offers (i.e. run more simultaneous offers). -------------  |
Posted By: DeathDealer89
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2013 at 19:28
|
As long as their are no other sellers you can price at whatever you want. If you put up a price and no one buys it then you will have to lower the price till someone does. What 'effort' or 'opportunity' that it cost you to make the item has no bearing on how useful it is to others. There just isn't a huge demand for most crafted items, if you think your going to get 10k for something that gives +2% attack -20% everything else good luck, be it at 1 item at a time or 100k items at time. |
Posted By: st aug
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2013 at 21:16
| Make them pay for crafted items and everything else for that matter . Why would you gave away [ cheep price ] for something they will use to build more and a better troop that you may have to fight some day . For crafted items make them pay dearly. Every thing in all the hubs should be sky high [ prices]. Make them earn that huge army that you will fight one day . So go ahead and give away all your stuff away cheep. [But know this---- WARNING it will come back to bite you and you will pay dearly for it ]. |
Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2013 at 22:46
Opportunity cost doesn't affect advantage, but it does affect your minimum asking price. As I originally said: I believe that there are only a few items worth making in large volumes. Those items are worth more than their component costs, cost less than their advantage vs. upkeep, and are worth more (not less) in significant quantities. Advantage > upkeep. That's why a buyer would be interested in buying. Profit > (Materials + Opportunity Cost). That's why a crafter would be interested in selling. I believe the majority of items fail this test. If you can't find a price range where both of these are true, then there is no transaction. Additionally, I proposed that (non-commander) crafted items were only really useful in large quantities, and thus worth more in large blocks. |
DeathDealer89 wrote:Posted By: abstractdream
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2013 at 23:08
|
I agree with the initial premise, which is that larger quantities of crafted items are more valuable. I also agree that market sets price. Too bad some traders organization doesn't get together to fix prices on some of the better selling items, since conspiracies aren't illegal in Illy... ------------- |
Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2013 at 00:16
| abstract, I think collusion would be difficult because everyone can craft. Only Silversteel seems sufficiently valuable and limited in supply to form a cartel. Even then, its usefulness is restricted by the availability of elemental salts, and the unwillingness of players to risk losing super-expensive items. |
Posted By: Salararius
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2013 at 02:25
|
Trying to correlate market pricing and logic is not going to win you a noble prize (it's impossible). Of course it's more convenient to buy your 10,000 pike in one large block. Isn't it also more convenient to sell your 10,000 pike in one large block. The question is, is the convenience higher for the seller or buyer and which is more willing (or able) to pay for the convenience? I might spend three months clicking to collect basic resources. I can que up all the crafting in 5 seconds. Based on human effort, crafted items have marginal value over their basic resource value. Of course, if you don't have the buildings then you might find the effort to create them rather extensive and value the crafted items much higher than the resources. It really just depends and there is no logic that will fit every circumstance. All of which leads to the only viable point, we have a market and don't try to set prices based on logic because there is no universal logic that will apply equally to all cases. |
Posted By: Tatharion
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2013 at 18:28
|
All interesting comments...
Now, what I would be keenly interested to hear from, is everyone's personal assessment of which element belonging to the long list of "Anatomies" they consider the most valuable. I anticipate that the answers will be somewhat race-dependent but nevertheless I am happy to exchange viewpoints on this topic. ------------- Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong. |
Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2013 at 19:15
|
Hides. The most common city type is plains, and the most common attack against those cities is cavalry, thanks to the +30% bonus to attack, and the -15% to defending spears. Reinforced leather gives a +24% bonus against cavalry for human, elven and orcish t2 spear units (dwarven Halbardiers use chain and plate, not leather). For the same reason, I'd name giant scorpion exoskeletons as the runner up. All three types of plains armor afford +12% all around defense in plains cities, and plains leather is +20% for humans. Very potent. I also said scorpions because they are available in plentiful quantities from kills. Elite units only provide a small advantage in big battles; for equipment to be truly worth it, you need to equip thousands of units. Rat fur is also nice for making forest spears to defend 7 food jungle forest cities. I know that wolf fur is in demand for pikes, but there simply isn't enough available in my opinion. |