Exploit Allowing NPC's to Join a Player's Army
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Category: Strategies, Guides & Help
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URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=5214
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Topic: Exploit Allowing NPC's to Join a Player's Army
Posted By: The Electrocutioner
Subject: Exploit Allowing NPC's to Join a Player's Army
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2013 at 11:31
There is an exploit that allows a player to add NPC units to their own forces in a blockade or siege. Their army does not battle the NPC's, but rather, the NPC's end up helping to fortify the blockade or siege. Here is an example from a scout report with the player info redacted. I have a dozen or so such reports.
I created a petition about this and updated it later with additional info. I created a second petition in a different category in hopes of drawing attention to it, and I updated that petition with an additional report. I emailed GM Luna requesting that this be fixed, all to no avail. I am resorting to this public option now as well. Devs, would you be so kind as to fix this glaring problem? Thank you.
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Replies:
Posted By: Spheniscidae
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2013 at 13:46
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well, there are still players with 12 cities for weeks and many more players with 150k pop and 10 cities (and no, they did not ever lose a city). Seems like the prevailing attitude with regards to exploits is "close both eyes" nowadays...
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Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2013 at 15:26
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So the troops in a blockade or siege won't fight animals, and will actually get reinforced? I think we saw something similar with undead during the last tournament. Occasionally the undead would reinforce the first army on the square. There are many players with 10 cities and less than 200,000 population. 200k strains food production and is less than ideal for military players because you can't raise taxes. Once players get their 10th city, many of them start knocking down the buildings to reach a more flexible population. It wouldn't surprise me if most 10 city players had 150-175k population. |
Posted By: Sir Bradly
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2013 at 16:24
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I filed a petition over this in May. Petition 9139. Result: Unassigned.
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Posted By: DeathDealer89
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2013 at 21:40
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Idk if I would call this an 'exploit' it may not be intended but its completely random if a set of animals decides to reinforce. No one can send an empty siege army and use 100k animals to do the siege. Also from my understanding the 12 city exploit has already been fixed. And as Brand said there isn't anything wrong with having under 150k with 10 cities.
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Posted By: Mr Damage
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2013 at 23:11
| I like this randomness, dont think its an exploit. |
Posted By: Sir Bradly
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2013 at 01:43
| It is not random. If you send a blockade to the square where an npc is currently residing, the blockade will be reinforced by the npc. Not too much fun when at war and a myriad of crawlers is blockading your city and you have to waste 4000 cavarly to clear and your enemy only loses one troop. |
Posted By: Epidemic
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2013 at 06:28
| So then it is an exploit, one that definitely needs to be fixed. |
Posted By: Tordenkaffen
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2013 at 09:06
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Or...Keep critters away from your cities!
------------- "FYI - if you had any balls you'd be posting under your in-game name." - KP |
Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2013 at 14:04
| sounds like strategy to me, i vote allow it |
Posted By: Mr Damage
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2013 at 23:21
Exactly
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Tordenkaffen wrote:Posted By: Sir Bradly
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2013 at 00:40
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So you think it would be prudent strategy to waste my troops clearing NPCs in the middle of a war? Are you getting paid by Bane to give this advice? :P SB
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Posted By: Daefis
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2013 at 01:20
| Whilst I agree this should be fixed by our errant developers it's now open knowledge and works for both sides surely? So hardly a case of picking sides:) This does actually seem to offer another level of tactics.... |
Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2013 at 01:46
| Another level of tactics? Rubbish. Even if everyone knows about it, this is still a bug and an exploit. It just randomly penalizes players in areas where legions of rats and poisonous crawlers can wander near their cities. In some places like the southern islands, there is an extreme density of strong NPCs in large groups. |
Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2013 at 02:52
Who?
You can demolish buildings after you get 10 cities - FYI. ------------- "This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM "a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill |
Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2013 at 07:16
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I have sent sieges that have been annihilated by NPC occupations, and I know of other players in my alliance that have experienced the same thing. Either this is unique to blockades or does not happen every time. (Which would make it harder to track down the problem.) It seems more like a bug than an exploit, since one can't predict when one sends troops if there will be a group of animals there or how large it will be. (Unless one were very close already.) Nevertheless, it seems unlikely that this is intended to be a "feature," however amusing it might be to the people NOT being blockaded by bugs. Hope the devs look into it.
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Posted By: tansiraine
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2013 at 07:54
| i had this happen during the war.. my city i lost had bears helping.. i believe i put in a petition on it .. on 1-19-2013 that is still unassigned... |
Posted By: Sir Bradly
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2013 at 14:03
| Update... GM Luna is investigating the issue now. |
Posted By: Spheniscidae
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2013 at 15:04
To all of you who doubt my ability to find the demolish building button after 1.5 years of playing this game, yes, I do know this. If you have reached the pop threshold for 10 cities and then demolished some buildings, then a population tracker such as Illytools would show this. What I'm talking about if players whose pop never decreases, and then after this known bug they have 10 cities even though they never had the pop to do so. Suspicious, no? I'm not naming names, Luna has acknowledged the petition i filed and the player with 12 cities is now down to 11 within the last few days so something is being done. Those who need to know, know.
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Posted By: Sloter
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2013 at 18:05
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It must be result of that siege-capture/settle bug.I thought devs removed that bug half year ago.If not than all of us who are falowing rules when settling new cities are fools compared to those who use that exploit. If they did not remove it would be good that they revert all gains that players have gained by using that exploit.I know people who use RL money for the game and they would not be happy to see host of players settling 10 cities from 130k pop or less by using capture/settle exploit. |
Posted By: Sloter
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2013 at 18:20
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For those who do not know how it works- for exmpl you have 8 cities and get to 130k pop, then you send siege to capture 9th town, then you send settlers.You must make sure that siege is finished before settlers arrive at designated location, but they must be sent before siege is finished.So both sieged/captured city and newly settled city is in players control.From 8 cities you get to 10 with minimal effort .It can be used in different combinations, some can probably result in having 12 cities. I have not used that personally so i am not 100% sure if that is how it works, it has been long time since i was explained how it can be done.Last i hear about it was that devs have removed that bug many months ago.As far as i know no VIC player has ever used that.I would not mention it here if not for players that i know who have used all effort to get to 10 city in fair way and according to game rules. |
Posted By: GM Luna
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2013 at 19:45
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If we catch anyone purposefully using this exploit to gain towns, for any other reason than to expressly help us locate and fix the bug, there will be problems for that person. We are in the process of investigating it further, because I was under the understanding it was already resolved. GM Luna ------------- GM Luna | Illyriad Community Manager | community@illyriad.co.uk 
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Posted By: DeathDealer89
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2013 at 19:49
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Since we have't seen any names of people with 12 or 11 cities I will assume its just one person thinking it wasn't cleared up. If you can't give us a name for a problem we can obviously check to see if its true, then we would have to assume that your just rambling. If it isn't, give us the name of the player with 11 or 12 cities then we can all siege their extra cities and fix the problem and the devs won't have to do a thing. As for the NPC bug, it seems those of you who hunted all your nearby animals to extinction now have a very slight advantage over those who didn't. 4th school of beast magic it turns out is more powerful than you thought.
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Posted By: MoguI
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2013 at 19:55
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There are some players that used this bug to get more towns then they should. But with illytools population history, evidence is available. The way how this bug works is that one player creates 2 or more new towns within one day (usually within few minutes) and town creation date and time are part of official xml data. So I created a list of suspicious towns and check some of those suspicious players in illytools. Some are of course ok but some are not. Like this guy here: 18th August he had 7 towns and 80k pop. Then next day he captured one and created another town so had 9 towns with population not even near to 130k. http://www.puzzleslogic.com/illy/downloads/1.png" rel="nofollow - http://www.puzzleslogic.com/illy/downloads/1.png Or this player with 10 towns and around 160k pop. He got last 2 towns 9th July evening within 1 hour. http://www.puzzleslogic.com/illy/downloads/2.png" rel="nofollow - http://www.puzzleslogic.com/illy/downloads/2.png Sometimes it may look like exploit but in fact it could be ok. Like this player with 1 town and 1k pop and next day with 4 towns but it is actually possible to do. http://www.puzzleslogic.com/illy/downloads/3.png" rel="nofollow - http://www.puzzleslogic.com/illy/downloads/3.png I think there are not so many exploiters. |
Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2013 at 21:42
| its pretty simple getting 10 castles with team work anyways and some find that having ten isnt always an idea situation |
Posted By: Mr Damage
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2013 at 06:35
Haha, you've discovered my latest occupation, I'm a mercenary for hire to the alliance of mercenaries for hire. Damn, guess I'll need to look in the classifieds again. Good to see your sense of humour remains intact SB, hope the war is going well, whatever its about. I had assumed it was just a war by arrangement, did not think there was real angst among the two combatants.
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Posted By: The Duke
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2013 at 17:29
As for the NPC issue- Im sure its received enough attention that it will be resolved "soon". Its a bug we just recently learned about. The town exploit has been known for a long time and nobody ever closed the loop ------------- "Our generation has had no Great Depression, no Great War. Our war is spiritual. Our depression is our lives." |
Posted By: GM Luna
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2013 at 19:03
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If you truly know of "many people" using exploits, yes, I'm going to need to hear names so we can investigate. Put it in a petition please. Luna ------------- GM Luna | Illyriad Community Manager | community@illyriad.co.uk
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Posted By: The Duke
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2013 at 19:17
------------- "Our generation has had no Great Depression, no Great War. Our war is spiritual. Our depression is our lives." |
Posted By: The Duke
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2013 at 19:43
------------- "Our generation has had no Great Depression, no Great War. Our war is spiritual. Our depression is our lives." |
Posted By: Maccam
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2013 at 00:45
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I have never posted on the forums as yet, but as my 12 towns have got mentioned once or twice and there seems there are people curious about it I thought I should perhaps say something... I recall many moons ago Dittobite successfully broke through the 10 town barrier for the first time. His #11 was short lived and was deleted by the Devs. It was achieved if memory serves me correctly by sending settlers while sieging someone at the same time. I believe this avenue was promptly closed by the Devs. Months later, when I was going for my town #10 by sieging an inactive I also had a couple of other sieges open on abandoned towns I was clearing. I saw the opportunity to 'storm and capture' several towns at once - which I did, and it worked. I realised that with 9 towns each with 5 commanders I could have sieged 45 towns simultaneously, when added to my original 9 towns would have made 54 towns. Had I done that I suspect I may have been suspended straightaway. So I raised a petition (9000) there and then, stating I expected to lose the towns & explaining what I had done. Given that the same trick could get someone from 2 towns & 8 commanders to 10 towns very quickly indeed, I agreed with the Devs to keep this under my hat until a fix was put into place - Stormcrow made it clear I would not be able to keep #11 & #12 and we agreed the Devs would take them down. From the issue being reported 14th May it was fixed in around 48 hours. I guess had this become common practice it would have spoiled the enjoyment of the game for many so it was fixed very quickly indeed, thank you Devs. I have not encouraged or assisted any other player to follow my trick, but it looks as though people already knew about it if many have done it as has been said, unless of course there is another way. I am moving one town out of the way (and would have gladly moved the other if exodus were researched). The Devs will remove the towns at their leisure. This is all agreed, no assistance is required. Regards Maccam |
Posted By: Lordfireice
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2014 at 08:45
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this bug is getting out of hand my allaince of Dlord is under attack with people who now know how to pull this off and more then just a few. they also told there ally's and are overpwring us and other allainces. they r now using this "tactic" to cheat out victory's when they shouldn't have bin any. there using the bug in mass i got reports of over 10+ people from 2 dif allainces using it and now there hammering us with a tactic that shouldn't be possible. and not just my allaince is be attacked this way our allys allaince is be attacked this way as well as the figed out how to use it almost non stop with up to 5k of NPCs my GM had it happen to him SIX TIMES IN A ROW! and hes not the only one. something must be done about this we got the reports to back it up. |
Posted By: belargyle
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2014 at 09:02
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To be fair I didn't know this existed till I noticed it and started asking around. Thus - With regard to initial OP of this thread. Not only is NPC / blockading thing still active, it IS being exploited. Dlords has had it happen several times, one after another (and yes even to me specifically). There are always similar characteristics to them to.
1. These have all been blockades sent a few days in advance 2. The NPC amount designation (for us) has always been 'legion' (nothing more or less) 3. The majority of them 'I have seen' are done by a particular alliance primarily against Dlords though other alliances have apparently had the same issues happen as noted by this thread. 4. The NPC will not leave as long as the army stays there. ( have seen the same NPC stay in the same location for 7 days without moving. I have had 3 land, one after another (though they were days a part), in different locations against different towns over a 2 week period. This is not a coincidence, especially since these were the only blockades that landed against me, as well as others in our group. I have had this tactic used 6 times thus far (which my petition states) I have this petition filed and acknowledged but unassaigned. However the first one mysteriously or accidentally got deleted after it was submitted by the next day. The one in the system now has the last 3 blockades listed in it that happened in the last 2 weeks. 2 of these blockades were sent over 5 days away, yet landed against towns where sieges were going to be taking place once the other inbound armies landed. I have never seen them be a part of any other group than blockades.
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Posted By: Hora
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2014 at 09:43
| Belargyle, can you estimate the traveltime of the blockading armies? They would have to be quite near as to hit NPC camps in time and on purpose... |
Posted By: Darkwords
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2014 at 12:30
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LOL... so the DLords actually believe there is some way of doing this on purpose. It is completely down to luck and it happens when our opponents set camps outside our cities too. I like the feature, it adds some randomness to the game. However, would you please care to point out a single time when it is the npc's that overpower your alliance and not our troops? If a single city, let alone your 'alliance' can be overpowered by an npc occupation, then you really need to consider surrender, because any alliance that weak should not have any role in a war. ------------- <Deranzin> I'd agree with darkone on that [21:59]<ropadope> you know I am perverted <Bartleby> dark is upsetting some peeps |
Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2014 at 13:51
Are these NPCs poisonous crawlers? I have been hunting legions of poisonous crawlers in Turalia for some time. I can do it for you .. for a fee of course  How does 1000 gold per poisonous crawler sounds like? You can IGM Mariabronne if interested. Just give me the requests well in time so that my sentinels can reach the squares before the blockades. I don't want to bump into crow armies and become a hunted NPC myself. PS: You can gather the hides as well. |
Posted By: R88
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2014 at 14:00
well if you occupy on a square with NPC's on it it don't work anymore! just tried! 
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Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2014 at 14:24
Haww there goes my business prospects.. why you do this to me R88? well, if anyone wants a paid hand to hunt poisonous crawlers .. for any reason .. you know where to look!  |
Posted By: Epidemic
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2014 at 19:36
| Once or twice is luck, 6 times is someone taking advantage of a glitch. Any alliance purposely taking advantages of glitches should be publicly shamed and possibly attacked. |
Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2014 at 19:47
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I don't think it as a glitch. It's a randomness in the environment that both parties can use. If such randomness is to be not allowed, then NPC troops shouldn't occupy tiles adjacent to a city - that way neither the attacker nor the defender will loose troops. I'd really like this feature to stay and even improve with new magics some day. |
Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2014 at 19:50
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"Animal Summoning" anyone?
It has occurred to me that it might not be a bug but there might be a discovery out there that some people know about but others don't. This seems really unlikely to me, but it is possible. The major argument against it is that Animal Summoning was supposed to be a new school of magic, not a discovery.
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Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2014 at 19:51
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Well that and, if it is a discovery, it seems like more people would know about it. Unless everyone already knows but me.
No one ever tells me anything!
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Posted By: Nokigon
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2014 at 19:51
This is being done on purpose. The only time that we ever get blockaded without being sieged at the same time is when someone spots NPCs next to a city, and tries his luck.
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Posted By: Darkwords
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2014 at 20:05
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Whilst there is a way to 'engineer' this to happen, it is merely following a tactic that H and their allies used against me, in an attempt to stop me beating them in tourney No2. During the tourney I claimed it was a exploit and a glitch on the forums, then H and all their allies (including the DLords) piled onto the forums claiming it was a 'creative tactic' not an exploit or glitch, which the devs agreed with. Its odd how attitudes change when the boot it on the other foot. H?pocritical? I think so. ------------- <Deranzin> I'd agree with darkone on that [21:59]<ropadope> you know I am perverted <Bartleby> dark is upsetting some peeps |
Posted By: Lordfireice
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2014 at 21:06
| with some NPCs i can see be non hostal but the game makes it types that simply imposiable 4 it to happen. and when u set up blockades wit 5k min of free extra troops then its unfair 4 those who A cant do it B dont want to do it C think its cheating and what makes it cheating? when u use it 2 hurt others not at random. the GM of my allaince has had it done to him 6 times in a row, no other attacks no other waves sent when hes delt with one soon another shows up with the same thing happening only with differnt NPCs. we know they can control what type of mobs but they can control when they show up. we got the reports to prove this. if this is not fixed we not only have to fight player armies but also FREE NPC troops. note its use is indeed limited but doesn't mean its fair to use such a bug. |
Posted By: Tatharion
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2014 at 21:29
Many lesser known discoveries indeed Rill,  Maybe "Sight of the Moon"? Animals love to gather and howl at the new moon...
 ------------- Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong. |
Posted By: belargyle
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2014 at 22:06
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Many of you don't seem to get it. 6 blockades, ALL of which were DAYS AWAY incomig,. landing at the EXACT SAME TIME the various NPC landed. Not 6 various blockades here and there, but blockades that happen one after another but on various towns. This has happened on my main and alt account. Again, not me alone. As I said, not only am I stating it, but have documentation on it, and have set up a petition. Personally, I believe not only the people doing it but the alliances (Knowingly allowing it) should be banned, like all the other exploits being used.
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Posted By: Epidemic
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2014 at 23:05
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I've tried finding those discoveries, no such luck, not even a hint. I'd say none of those are available yet. Devs should look to see if someone is running a script to manipulate npc migration, if that is even possible. |
Posted By: GM Luna
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2014 at 23:54
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Lordfireice, file a petition with specific examples and proof of what you are describing please.
Luna ------------- GM Luna | Illyriad Community Manager | community@illyriad.co.uk
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Posted By: Elmindra
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2014 at 00:00
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Why should people be banned for something the game engine allows for? This has been an issue for quite some time, the devs haven't seen fit to fix it so obviously it isn't high on their list. There is no hack or exploit being performed here. If there happens to be NPC's on a square when a blockade lands then they join your forces. Both sides know this and have known about this for some time, both sides can and have used this to their advantage.
The idea that someone could control the server side game engine to manipulate NPC spawning is just absurd, if that were the case then they could manipulate everything and the game would be broken. ------------- 
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Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2014 at 00:21
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Bela, I guess my question is ... how many blockades were set up during that time? I know that the "reinforcing" NPCs happened recently for an nCrow blockade. During that time we had at least 7-8 blockades going of various cities. Are you suggesting we should all be banned because ONE of those blockades happened to have NPCs reinforcing? (None of those blockades were of DLords cities as far as I know, so I don't think we're whatever particular alliance you seem to have in mind; my point being, that this is happening in other circumstances of which you may not be aware.) Correlation does NOT imply causation, particularly when the alleged correlation is based on anecdotal evidence. I completely understand that this is very frustrating, and the developers should try to fix it. (Or just announce that it's supposed to work that way, which I don't think it is.) I also think that players should give each other the benefit of the doubt. Absolutely if there is an exploit, particularly if it somehow involves a hack, the developers need to address it and punish anyone knowingly involved. I'm concerned however that witch-hunts not be started based on speculation. Maybe there is a need for a cooling-off period in this war. This is a game and most of us actually like and respect each other, no matter which side we are on. Let's not lose that perspective.
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Posted By: Sir Bradly
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2014 at 00:22
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Luna, petitions with examples have been provided in the past with no result. This NPC/blockade bug was petitioned and scout reports filed over 6 months ago. Most might find this no big deal. However, some of us have legions and myriads of poisonous crawlers around them. Wasting troops clearing them is tedious during a war when every troop counts. I would file another if something will be done. Otherwise, its not worth my time or hassle. If then Dev team will address it this time around please let us know and fresh examples can be petitioned. SB ------------- [04:46]<HATHALDIR> okay,I'm a bully |
Posted By: Sir Bradly
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2014 at 00:26
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Rill, its not too hard to figure out. When an NPC is adjacent to an enemy city, you send a blockade to land on the same tile as the NPC.
When the Blockade lands, the NPC reinforces it. It is a glitch that is being taken advantage of during the war. SB ------------- [04:46]<HATHALDIR> okay,I'm a bully |
Posted By: GM Luna
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2014 at 00:40
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Open and update petitions always anyway. We need the documentation and specifics. Luna ------------- GM Luna | Illyriad Community Manager | community@illyriad.co.uk
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Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2014 at 00:41
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Sir Bradly, I think Belargyle seems to be implying something different. He is saying that the NPC is not already there (or was not there at the time the army was sent) and then somehow magically appears at the time the army arrives -- and that people are able to predict or even to CAUSE this to occur.
The idea that players are somehow manipulating the game in order to cause this is to my mind an extremely serious allegation. Such manipulation would seem to be against the Terms of Service (unless it is related to a discovery of which I at least am unaware). With regard to the circumstance you described, whether sending a blockade to a square that is occupied by an NPC is fair play or is not fair play would seem to be a matter of debate, unless the developers make a statement one way or the other. I find it hard to imagine that the developers would rule that landing armies on top of reinforcing NPCs is an unacceptable exploit. From a practical standpoint, it would be extremely annoying for them to have to police the issue. (What would be the remedy for the player who was blockaded? How could it be proven that a player didn't simply overlook an NPC encampment when a blockade was sent? Would it operate on something like a three strikes principle? If so, three strikes in what period of time? Would it be dependent on how often a player engaged in blockading?) UNLESS this is a hack OR the developers find a way to prevent this "bug" from occurring, probably it will be up to us as players to come to some consensus as to whether this is acceptable. As players we would again run into the difficulty of proving that someone had purposefully engaged in the behavior. And if the person had, what would we do? Siege them down? Each side is trying to do that to the other anyway -- and I don't see anyone here saying "Someone on my side seems to be doing this very bad thing and I think he should be punished." I DO hope the developers thoroughly investigate this issue and if it's a bug, fix it, and if it's a hack, both kill it and punish those responsible. I do NOT see that much is to be gained from pointing fingers at each other on the forum.
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Posted By: Sir Bradly
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2014 at 00:47
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NPCs should be fighting the blockader, not reinforcing them. Easy fix...
I am not pointing figures at players. I am more annoyed that this issue has not been addressed for 6 months. Anyways...I am not wasting anymore time on it. I don't see it getting fixed, so not worth petitioning it or arguing about it. We will just have to accept it and move on. Thanks for the response Luna. SB ------------- [04:46]<HATHALDIR> okay,I'm a bully |
Posted By: Darkwords
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2014 at 00:49
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Out of interest, why are the devs treating this as a glitch now, when they described the use of the same tactic (through diplos blocking npc's) as an inventive tactic to be commended when it was used against me? I have to say I am left feeling a little discriminated against here. EDIT; I have actually read through all the above here, looks like I have explained how to do this to everyone above (and no I am not editing that out). I merely discovered it for myself after the DLords posted about it here, yet they have seemed unable to work it out, so the tactic is pretty straight forward as you should now be able to see, you can use it yourselves if you wish. Are you happy with this now, or are you gonna continue to complain about a game feature that you have used against me and supported in the past. ------------- <Deranzin> I'd agree with darkone on that [21:59]<ropadope> you know I am perverted <Bartleby> dark is upsetting some peeps |
Posted By: belargyle
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2014 at 01:30
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Dark - here is my question:
How can you determine a legion of NPC's will land at 'x; location (NOT THERE YET) days ahead of time? THis is my point. and Yes, I have the documentation of it in the petition given. The three I gave were the latest ones that were inbound over 3 days (2 were over 5 days out) and when they landed - magically, so did the legion of NPC's |
Posted By: belargyle
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2014 at 01:39
Purposefully abusing a glitch not once but consistently, like all other issues of this sort of consistent abuse, should follow the same procedure - banning. |
Posted By: Darkwords
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2014 at 01:43
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That would be odd, but it is easy to place a block on a legion outside your cities, just because legions are so common there, I would presume they send the block and then monitor waiting for a legion to land and then block it there, but if they are 'magically' appearing at the same time as the block as you seem to describe, then yes I would agree there is something odd happening in the game coding somewhere.
------------- <Deranzin> I'd agree with darkone on that [21:59]<ropadope> you know I am perverted <Bartleby> dark is upsetting some peeps |
Posted By: Darkwords
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2014 at 01:47
LOL I have never seen a player 'banned' for miss-using mechanics like that before, the last example that I can think of is VICs defensive mechanics used through a tourney. Don't think anything happened to them for that. ------------- <Deranzin> I'd agree with darkone on that [21:59]<ropadope> you know I am perverted <Bartleby> dark is upsetting some peeps |
Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2014 at 01:53
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I guess my question is, why are you so sure this is intentional? Just because it happened several times doesn't mean it's not coincidental. Did it happen on EVERY blockade from X player or alliance? Or is it possible that some people are just throwing a lot of blockades around, and happen to sometimes land on NPCs?
Just because there appears to be a pattern doesn't mean it's not random. See apophenia: http://scienceornot.net/2012/08/14/perceiving-phoney-patterns-apophenia/" rel="nofollow - http://scienceornot.net/2012/08/14/perceiving-phoney-patterns-apophenia/ I don't know if there is some sort of exploit or hack going on here, I'm just saying that so far I haven't seen any convincing evidence that there is -- and that there are many reasons that what SEEMS to be a purposeful pattern may in fact be coincidence.
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Posted By: Juswin
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2014 at 02:37
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Predicting where NPCs land adjacent to a city or somehow causing NPCs to appear where a blockade is and reinforce that blockade is somewhat absurd. Elmindra has succinctly explained the mechanics of this strategy that is available for both sides to use.
Its not even clear how this can be a called a glitch in the game. A blockade is not an aggressive action against NPCs, so the game reasonably allows the NPCs to merge with the blockade. I imagine the blockaders can lounge in the comfort of a legion of scritchers because they are not hostile to them. When caravans pass by, the blockaders capture them, without raising a fuss among the scritchers. When the blockaders bring scritcher treats, then they become the best of scritcher friends. So I can imagine the scritchers defending the blockaders when DLord armies march on them. ------------- It may be that you are right. Then again, you may be wrong. http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/57903" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2014 at 03:23
That sounds very logical. It would be nice if the devs could clarify if this is working as expected or not. If it is not working as expected, what should be the ideal behaviour of NPCs in these situations? |
Posted By: belargyle
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2014 at 05:02
IF you send an army to a tile where no NPC is at, to occupy the tile, and an NPC army arrives before you do - do you just occupy the tile the together since the army was not intentionally going there to be the aggressor to the NPC's? Of Course Not! They kill your armies, as many many people will vouch for. ALL armies are hostile when sent out from your cities (except reinforcements). Look at the 'notifications' part of your menu when when you send your armies out, even to occupy, it is called a - hostile intention.
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Posted By: belargyle
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2014 at 05:13
Every blockade sent thus far, from the same alliance, yes. Sorry, your presumption of continuous actions in repetitious form (all, with the same similarities) do not conform to the theory these are only coincidences. Ergo, no - not random at all. I am reporting the fact of what is going on. The evidence is not for you nor anyone else here to look at and evaluate... that is why it was all put into petitions and given to the Devs. They have the petitions and all that has been placed in there. I was merely supporting the OP in it's premise and stating I have placed petitions in there as well. :)
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Posted By: Aurordan
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2014 at 05:15
Having conducted a thorough examination of Juxwin's post, I find it probable that it was mean ironically, most likely in a form of jest.
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Posted By: eragon31
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2014 at 07:50
| i thought that once the army was sent to blockade the square and npcs on that square stayed there and it locked them onto the square until they died? like when you attack an npc army around a 0600, 1200,1800 or 0000 mark they dont just leave they wait patiently to be slaughtered lol. also im wondering if the people didnt notice the npcs around the city then send it and it stayed there until the blockade arrived. thats why anytime i have an incoming army i check around my city and clear any npcs there |
Posted By: Darkwords
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2014 at 13:24
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Just thought I would let people know that Luna has been in contact with me in regards to this matter and I have explained to her how this 'tactic' works. It would be fairly easy for the devs to prevent it from working if they feel it unbalances the game or anything, so I expect we will find out what their view on the matter fairly soon. I personally voiced my opinion that it should be stopped, not because of the way it is currently being used, but due to something I could do using the same mechanics, which would place my side in a notably unfair advantage. ------------- <Deranzin> I'd agree with darkone on that [21:59]<ropadope> you know I am perverted <Bartleby> dark is upsetting some peeps |
Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2014 at 14:13
More than being a glitch, this is probably a case of us being unaware of the game mechanics in some special circumstances. If settlers arrive on the same tile where an inbound siege lands, the siege army sets up a camp within the newly found city itself. This behaviour is same for settlers as well as exodus. This 'glitch' was brought to attention in 2011 October. The response from GM Stormcrow was that
The original post where the problem was reported http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/29sept11-moving-cities_topic2495_post31894.html" rel="nofollow - http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/29sept11-moving-cities_topic2495_post31894.html The responses by GM Stormcrow http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/29sept11-moving-cities_topic2495_post31894.html#31894" rel="nofollow - http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/29sept11-moving-cities_topic2495_post31894.html#31894 http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/29sept11-moving-cities_topic2495_post31971.html#31971" rel="nofollow - http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/29sept11-moving-cities_topic2495_post31971.html#31971 In the current case at least you have a recourse of normally attacking the enemy camps. If a siege gets set up within another city of your own (as was the case with St Jude), you cannot even attack the siege. I dont know for sure if the sieging army was sent back; from the responses back then it looks like it wasnt. Also I am not sure if the mechanics were changed later some date. Personally I believe this behavior should stay. Players should be able to make use of roaming NPCs to their advantage. PS: My offer of 1000 gold per poisonous crawler still stands |
Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2014 at 14:19
PPS: You can also hire me as a guest-tactician. 50 mil per advice. |
Posted By: GM Luna
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2014 at 14:58
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Folks, this is veering steadily off course. The only issue I'm attempting to gain clarification on at this moment is npcs reinforcing armies. Bringing up similar but mostly unrelated situations from ages ago is confusing the issue. We will deal with issues individually as they come up and as we see is appropriate. Any official stance or resolution will come as a reply from me or another gm, a petition reply or a patch to the game. I'm seeing people tying themselves in logical pretzel knots trying to determine what we are going to say and do in ways that are presumptuous at best and disingenuous at worst. So please just hang in there and be clear in your petitions. Luna ------------- GM Luna | Illyriad Community Manager | community@illyriad.co.uk
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Posted By: tansiraine
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2014 at 19:39
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Petition 8556 Updated 1/19/13
Same issue with Blockade This happened on a city that was sieged (and I lost in the last war). It is still showing Unassigned. This has been happening for over a year.. hopefully more complaints will get the glitch fixed. edited for spelling...
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Posted By: GM Luna
Date Posted: 12 Jan 2014 at 14:40
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http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/bugfixes-12jan14-npc-blockades-etc_topic5386.html ------------- GM Luna | Illyriad Community Manager | community@illyriad.co.uk
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