The Consone War was the BIG one! The largest war in the history of the game so far. Involving over 20 alliances: lasting almost 6 months and including battles involving more than 1 million troops. Of course the War took place in a Sandbox so although it has now effectively ended - the game still continues! Consequently players who participated in the war still feel that they have issues to resolve and this has become apparent in the -EE- Surrender Thread.

 

I think it is fair to say that we all of have to accept that there will likely always be wars in Elgea and The Broken Lands so long as our game continues (may that be for a long time yet ). We seem to very good at starting them. Quite good at fighting them but at a loss with what to do in ending them. 

 

Illyriad, by virtue of being Sandbox cannot be a game of "perpetual"war. We all saw the way in which the game suffered during The Consone War. Some of us have lost friends who quit because of it including players had contributed a lot to the game.  Some even  lost alliances and more than a few have lost cities. This is bound to create a sense of ill feeling between the main protagonists involved in The Consone War and this sense of ill feeling needs to be dealt with.

 

What is needed now is magnamity on the part of the victors not idle boasts and taunts. The victors will gain for credibililty if they show humility to towards the former Consone alliances, Likewise, those who surrendered are not doing the game any good by allowing old grudges to fester.  Wargamers must always accept that battles and wars end and when that happens the "Spirit of the Game" has priority over any issues that continue to rankle people on either side.

 

That is the time when propaganda, ill feeling,  serious differences in perspective must be set aside. Lets try and do that here, now in this thread

 

 

Illyriad, by virtue of being Sandbox cannot be a game of "perpetual"war.

Wrong.

We all saw the way in which the game suffered during The Consone War. Some of us have lost friends who quit because of it including players had contributed a lot to the game.

I don't think the game as a whole suffered at all. Many eyes were opened, many delusions popped (painfully in some cases) but overall this kind of content merely serves to add to the sum of the game.  I can personally enumerate many who quit due to lack of such content - the fact that they went quietly (in most cases) rather than screaming their bitterness from the rooftops makes their loss no less important.

This is bound to create a sense of ill feeling between the main protagonists involved in The Consone War and this sense of ill feeling needs to be dealt with.

Another badly supported assumption. A few posts in a forum do not define the 'feelings' of over 1000 players.

What is needed now is magnamity on the part of the victors not idle boasts and taunts.

"magnanimity".  I think if it were possible for you look objectively you would see that it's approximately six of one and half a dozen of the other. Also, I notice you mention nothing about what those who surrendered ought to do - you push it all onto the victors (against whom you have already spouted many pages of rhetoric).

In short - your little missive obviously biased and full of unsupported statements-as-fact which are incorrect. It is thus completely unsuitable as a starting point for any kind of reconciliation even if we were to agree that one were required. It's simply another thread pushing a personal agenda from a biased viewpoint.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iM4oiPnsrnk" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iM4oiPnsrnk

 

^^Well, well. Will you look at at that ? Throw the Poodle a Dove of Peace and what does he do? He tears it to pieces.

 

KillerPoodle wrote: In short - your little missive obviously biased and full of unsupported statements-as-fact which are incorrect. It is thus completely unsuitable as a starting point for any kind of reconciliation even if we were to agree that one were required. It's simply another thread pushing a personal agenda from a biased viewpoint.

 

No. I have no personal agenda. I am not a member of the former Consone, nor the former Coaltion alliances. If you look at my posts alomost all have argued for peace then mediation and now reconciliation. Neither am I seeking to gain personal Kudos. Hey I am just a simple farmer y'know (well brewer actually) ;)

 

KillerPoodle wrote: "magnanimity".  I think if it were possible for you look objectively you would see that it's approximately six of one and half a dozen of the other. Also, I notice you mention nothing about what those who surrendered ought to do - you push it all onto the victors

 

I did mention  those who surrendered actually if you read my posts again. I am not trying to score points here in this thread. I honestly wanted to try help smooth things over, by giving you a thread to come to terms with the aftermath of the war. A little flakey maybe but that was the intention.

 

KiillerPoodle wrote: Ossian wrote: Illyriad, by virtue of being Sandbox cannot be a game of "perpetual"war. Wrong

You are not seriously going to admit in open forum that the leader of Harmless? wants to see Elgea in a state of perpetual war are you?  Tell us ain't so KP. I'll be generous and give you a chance to "clarify" that point

 

 

...But seriously KP...guy...I just want to help Illyriad build itself up for The Broken Lands. Now is the time for us all to be inviting new friends back into the game and buidling up the player base. Sure the War was fun for some while it lasted (....for 6 months) but I think now is the  time to for us all to renew old bonds with the Devs and move the Illy we love into a new expansion.

 

You agree with that, don't you?  Of course you do. Attaboy

An old ploy Rorgash. I am tired of it. This isn't about me.  It's about Illyriad. Those who wish to seek me out can find me easy enough.

 

 

Edit...well maybe just one more.

I did mention  those who surrendered actually if you read my posts again.

Where?  You specifically say that the Victors need to do something (in your opinion) but say nothing about what those surrendering need to do.

 

You are not seriously going to admit in open forum that the leader of Harmless? wants to see Elgea in a state of perpetual war are you?  Tell us ain't so KP. I'll be generous and give you a chance to "clarify" that point

You stated that the game "cannot" be in a state of perpetual war.  As a sandbox it most definitely can be in any state for any amount of time.  This has nothing to do with my wishes one way or the other - your statement is just simply wrong.

 

 

For your information the OP also included the words

 

Ossian wrote: ...Likewise, those who surrendered are not doing the game any good by allowing old grudges to fester.

 

KP . I am tired of all this . Ok. 

Do you have a better reason to attack players?

I mean we go always go alphabetically.  

I have had enough.

 

The response of the H? members in this thread sickens me so much. No more of talk peace.

So you want to carry on flaming people, smearing them and you think it's fun do you? Ok then. I'll give you fair warning that I will make you suffer for what you have dished out to others!

Illy is a game with practically no real world consequences.  Anyone can be as big an ass as they want here (and there are some on all sides and I don't exclude myself) and there is very little chance they'll even get popped in the nose, let alone any real consequences.  There is little that is responsible, mature or wise about using your free time to play games, especially fantasy, internet war games.

The little boys in H? need to stop patting themselves on the back for being such "grown ups" and trying to pretend it's more than a game and a game that's a giant time suck too.  In one way or another, everyone here is a child playing a game.  Just because the "members" of H? spend more time doing so, have more spreadsheets and are generally more anal about it doesn't make them somehow more "grown up" or "wise".  I find that egotistical but I believe the members of H? like offending people.  They seem to believe it makes things "interesting" and they know there is little anyone can do to them and they relish that childish feeling of power.

Well, they did you quite a favor by even responding to your usual trollish thread and posts ... 

Ossian wrote: So you want to carry on flaming people, smearing them and you think it's fun do you? Ok then. I'll give you fair warning that I will make you suffer for what you have dished out to others!

Why would anyone want that?  After all, if you force them out of the game, then you have no enemies to fight later.  

Also I find it hilarious that the person title a thread "peace and reconciliation" is in fact the first one to make threats bravo.  

Next we see a great example of a player who is a sore loser.  When defeated simply complains that the game mechanics are unfair or the other player has no life.  Which lets face it is also hilarious.  

At first I thought this was a stupid repeat thread.  But now I realize that its just a bunch of ppl having fun!

Now where were we, oh yes trying to kill(force to leave) additional winy players.  

You mean you won't make pointless threads in the forums to spout propaganda.  And you won't try and doing any real diplomacy in the forums.  Instead you will do that in IGM's and other forums where we get to skip all the troll posts.  

Also you will fight those who try and bully smaller players, and protect the noobs while sending billions of res to the new players.

 And also hold people responsible for their own actions.

I'm so happy H? converted you to our way of doing things :D, Illy will be much better for it.  I expect new players around you are rejoicing in the extra res.  Course since you hide your in game account, we can have no idea if you are actually holding up to your new high standard.  It will take practice but i'm sure u will get the hang of it.

Oh I would say by now most of us have given up on being serious in these threads.  

I don't think you guys had millions of cav, i tried to kill as much as possible but couldn't find millions.  

1 million cav is the collected cav of what 25 towns.. really the WHOLE consone didnt have much more then the army of 25 towns? ... sure i did notice the extremely weak counter attacks most of the time, but i thought that was because the fighting was further north... wow... 

EDIT: Typo

Several in Dark came back for the war...

/shrugs

I can name many more that left due to boredom...

you would know all about BSing... no?

Well, asking from some people to take responsibility for the way they lead or the way they follow, might be a new concept to some people, judging from some posts lately ... 

Sloter wrote: I know of more then 10 players from VIC who left game due to war , so i would say around 10% players in VIC left game due to war

I am sorry, but to this I must respond.

I cannot disagree with you more, in fact I categorically disagree - it is a fundamental fact that it is 'toughen the light up' and not the abomination you wrong above.

 

We can and should move on yes but I just want to clarify something raised earlier.  This thread was intended (niavely as it turns out) to try and defuse any fall out between Coalition and Consone players involved in the War. The OP wasn't intended to advocate one particular style of gameplay over another.

From Section 1. Introduction, item B. "Spirit of the Game. Ultimate relies upon a spirit of sportsmanship that places the responsibility for fair play on the player. Highly competitive play is encouraged, but never at the expense of mutual respect among competitors, adherence to the agreed upon rules, or the basic joy of play. Protection of these vital elements serves to eliminate unsportsmanlike conduct from the Ultimate field. Such actions as taunting opposing players, dangerous aggression, belligerent intimidation, intentional infractions, or other 'win-at-all-costs' behavior are contrary to the Spirit of the Game and must be avoided by all players."

 

http://www.usaultimate.org/about/ultimate/spirit_of_the_game.aspx" rel="nofollow - http://www.usaultimate.org/about/ultimate/spirit_of_the_game.aspx

No, I will not, unless the people that claim such a thing ever try to explain their argument instead of always avoiding the question ... 

_____________________________________________________
 

As for reasons in each case

loosing more then 1 city fas reason for several players

nobody has quit for loosing in general as far as i know

not wanting to fight resulted only in people leaving alliance , or in few cases staying out of fights but nobody has quit game for that

nobody was forced to fight, and nobody quit because of that

not having armies also never resulted in players leaving game

Few people have left game because they lost too many cities, many more ,left the game because they said that they no longer have interest in this type of game, they say that illy has changed too much,they all had choice to leave war and waring alliances but instead they refused to do that and they just quit the game it self.I even know players who have decided to quit early when war started but have stayed activ only until their allinaces were in war.They felt that lvl of loyalty to help out while war was on.Most of those who left said they were disgusted by entire situation and they did not wanted to invest more time or money in this game.

That is only what people have said to me, that is not my personal opinion

It would simpler Kumo. If you just apologised.

OK, in an attempt to try and bring this thread back to something like the thread title, and to hopefully steer people away from using the forum as a podium for odium....let's try and talk about some positives.

I think an earlier post mentioned how the War had opened peoples eyes and revealed certain elements of the game previously unappreciated.

What do people think these are?  What do each side believe the other side did well?

Personally (I was Consone), my involvement in the War was limited - not through lack of desire, but simple geography.  I actually enjoyed the War (mostly) because it taught me things about the game mechanics that were not previously obvious to me.  It also acted to bring members of our alliance (and other alliances) closer together in cooperation - there were of course some exceptions to this; some players did leave the game/alliance citing the War and its propaganda as the reason, others simply went quiet (which is their prerogative , and I won't judge).

As I mentioned above, the effect of geography was highlighted for me.  Simply being located a large distance away from the main alliance hubs has an enormous effect - making you less reactive, and prone to speculative forays into the theatre of war.  I would imagine now that most alliances will be looking at the distribution of their players with a view to consolidating where they can.  At one point in the War, I did suggest that Consone look to restructuring the constituent alliances into consolidated hubs to make us better able to focus our strength in key areas.  Unfortunately, at that point in the War, such a logistically and administratively onerous task was unlikely to happen - but if done earlier on, it might have changed things (IMHO).  What are the Coalition's thoughts on this?

Another (now obvious) learning for me (having not participated in a war before), was the role of different troop types.  For example, I hadn't appreciated that offensive troops would be used mostly in defensive action and vice versa (i.e. Cavalry to break sieges, Spears/Bows to defend sieges).

The placement of cities also plays a big part.  A sieged city surrounded by plains can quickly and effectively be aided by allies with fast moving cavalry.  Having a building next to your city is inviting a siege to land there - and can only be effectively removed by slower moving infantry.

As far as the opposition goes, I was impressed by their military readiness and organisation.  We were not prepared for a war.  Prior to the War, our focus was on trade and learning - most members had a certain level of defensive troops, and perhaps a few more offensive troops with us being in the middle of a tournament.  H? did not participate in that tournament up to the start of the War (I think an earlier post from KP gives a reason why) - how much did that help once War did break out, if at all?

At some points, it seemed that H? members did not sleep, with constant activity at all times of the day.  Are you all really insomniacs, or do you have an organised system of sitters?

Finally, a lot of people dedicated much time and effort for their respective sides during the War (from my point of view I think of the likes of Sloter), and I think whatever side we're on, we should applaud and appreciate that dedication.

At the end of the day, the War was just a rearrangement of 1's and 0's on a server somewhere.  It killed nobody and it cost nobody their homes (unless they really went mad on prestige).

Positive and conciliatory responses to this post are invited. 

Those blocks of text lacking spacing between sentences or organized thoughts into paragraphs are unintelligible.  I do not bother to read them.  I often get igms like that, too.  Those also go unread.

An author is asking the reader to commit the reader's time so the author should respect the reader enough to write intelligibly.

Foreign language difficulties rest with the non-English speaker as Illy has English as its official language.

We all make spelling and grammar errors.  But writers should take a little effort to adhere to basic composition rules.  There is too much "stream of consciousness" writing and writing missives as if they are 1 sentence text messages.  "how r u?" works as a text msg, but a wall of text in that style is garbage.

Full test tomorrow, score below a 75 and siege engines get sent!

I think you scored below 75 on those two sentences.  Do I get to send my siege engines now? 

SB

but...but... i put a space between my sentences per Professor The Dude's teachings, surely that must count for something!!!

I respect your attempts to bring the threat back to OP's intentions. However, I believe the entire community has already had a good chance to weigh in on the subject. 

I admire you for posting reflections and lessons to be learned from these events. But I don't think a discussion, debate, or opinion arguing thread will be seen as anything other than beating a dead horse. 

-1 Kumo: Improper use of apostrophe,

-1 Kumo: Far too many zeds in that previous post (or should I say zees?),

-1 geofrey:  "threat"?

You can call me Dr. Dude.  

[Actually, I have been awarded a Degree of Doctor of Jurisprudence in RL.]