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Exodus Alters Underlying Terrain...?

Printed From: Illyriad
Category: Strategies, Guides & Help
Forum Name: General Questions
Forum Description: If your gameplay question isn't answered in the help files, please post it here.
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=4840
Printed Date: 16 Apr 2022 at 22:45
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Topic: Exodus Alters Underlying Terrain...?
Posted By: Darmon
Subject: Exodus Alters Underlying Terrain...?
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2013 at 19:44
So far I've done exodus with two towns, and both times the underlying terrain where the city used to be was altered (both started on large mountains, and one became small hills while the other became plains).

I assumed the game was trying to normalize some of the anomalous terrain that exists because of how the game world used to be (when the fractal map was added, apparently towns kept their directly adjacent terrain types, even if that made things a bit silly).

So what I'm wondering is, has anyone noticed a pattern of the shifts?  Does it only happen when the prior terrain is a mountain (or do people only notice when mountains suddenly disappear)?  Since the immediately surrounding terrain doesn't seem to affect anything, perhaps the new terrain is just randomly determined from all the applicable terrain types for the biome and elevation?  Or does the alteration not always happen?



Replies:
Posted By: abstractdream
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2013 at 21:44
My last Exodus was around August of last year but looking at the square I left behind it is as I assumed it should be, an all 5 plot, plains square.

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Bonfyr Verboo


Posted By: TomBombadil
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2013 at 22:13
I've witnessed this as well.

Two cities in the last two months changed a large mountain square to normal plains after exodus.
Both large mountains were there long before my cities initially settled on them.


Posted By: Darmon
Date Posted: 07 Mar 2013 at 02:34
Hmm.  The other person I asked regarding the behavior also said it had only been noticed regarding an ex-mountain town of theirs.  So...maybe it only happens with mountains?  It would certainly be weird if only one terrain type was affected...


Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 07 Mar 2013 at 03:05
One thing that may occur is that every so often the game converts squares suitable to be "inhabited" by new player cities.  These squares are small woods (elves), plains (humans), small mountains (dwarves) and small hills (orcs) with the relevant resource plots.  It's possible that the squares were converted for re-use, especially if they were in the newb ring.


Posted By: TomBombadil
Date Posted: 07 Mar 2013 at 10:16
My two cities were just about as far away from the newb ring as they could be.


Posted By: Darmon
Date Posted: 07 Mar 2013 at 20:15
Yep, my two were out in The Wastes (egh) and I think the other one I heard mentioned was out East somewhere.

I've seen the newb ring terrain roll over, though I'm not sure exactly when that happens either.  Is it daily?  Or when a newb leaves a square in the ring?  Or when a new newb appears with a new town?


Posted By: Rorgash
Date Posted: 07 Mar 2013 at 20:23
sounds like a bug as this is not supposed to happen.

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Posted By: Jorcle
Date Posted: 07 Mar 2013 at 22:32
I reported something similar as a bug on 24/01/12. I moved a city from a fertile pasture and it became plains. At the time we had just had an update and I thought it might have been related to that.


Posted By: Darmon
Date Posted: 07 Mar 2013 at 23:24
Hmm, if one of my exo's hadn't turned a mountain into hills, I'd be wondering if they only ever converted into plains.  I wonder if it's possible to have the terrain actually become *better* after you leave?  Like converting a 5 food into a 7 food.  Would be an interesting new way to terraform, for sure.


Posted By: Darmon
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2013 at 21:06
Here's a bit of an interesting update: I did an exodus off of a terraformed square (don't ask) and it actually converted the square into the proper terrain (as in, instead of normal plains with 3 stone 7 food, it became an actual Fertile Pasture, sheep and all).  I wonder if it was just random, or if that would always happen when moving off of terraformed terrain...


Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2013 at 21:50
I have noticed Exodus altering the exit sqs terrain.  I've seen 7 food become 5/5/5/5/5 and I've seen mountains become hills.


Posted By: Salararius
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2013 at 00:53
This may be unrelated, but I recall that at some distant point in the past the devs made significant changes to the land of Illyriad (IIRC, it was the same time they introduced biomes).  Of course, squares with cities were not changed so as not to disrupt player cities.  Perhaps they coded it so that when the cities are removed (for whatever reason) the land changes they meant to implement were implemented?



Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2013 at 02:51
Originally posted by Salararius Salararius wrote:

This may be unrelated, but I recall that at some distant point in the past the devs made significant changes to the land of Illyriad (IIRC, it was the same time they introduced biomes).  Of course, squares with cities were not changed so as not to disrupt player cities.  Perhaps they coded it so that when the cities are removed (for whatever reason) the land changes they meant to implement were implemented?
QFT - the system attempts to revert land to what it should have been after the Poussin/fractal terrain, elevation and biome seeding; if the recently evacuated terrain isn't currently what it should be in the eyes of the system.  

The map contains concepts of each square's current terrain type, its underlying terrain type (which is what it was intended to be after the seeding), and its original terrain type (what it was when the map was first created, before the seeding).

Hope that helps.

SC


Posted By: DeathDealer89
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2013 at 02:56
So does this mean when we exodus to a sq that it may not be the same terrain as it should be when our city lands?

If so was that intended, if not will it be fixed?

Or is this purely for when our cities leave?


Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2013 at 02:58
Originally posted by DeathDealer89 DeathDealer89 wrote:

So does this mean when we exodus to a sq that it may not be the same terrain as it should be when our city lands?

If so was that intended, if not will it be fixed?

Or is this purely for when our cities leave?
It's only when city spots are vacated, either by abandonment, razing, exodus or, I believe, Tenaril's.

Nothing to worry about, it's always been this way, and we're not changing anything.

SC


Posted By: DeathDealer89
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2013 at 03:56
Whew was worried I was gonna lose my terraformed mountain.  


Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2013 at 04:42
This explains some terraformed squares that seemed to change after cities were razed.  I had seen it happen a few times, but it was not very common.  So terraforming and then razing a city is not as "safe" as terraforming and then capturing a city.  Likewise, the proposal by some (I think EF in particular) to terraform by doing multiple Exo-Tenarils and then razing cities and claiming sovereignty might not work out so well.


Posted By: Darmon
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2013 at 00:12
Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

This explains some terraformed squares that seemed to change after cities were razed.  I had seen it happen a few times, but it was not very common.  So terraforming and then razing a city is not as "safe" as terraforming and then capturing a city.  Likewise, the proposal by some (I think EF in particular) to terraform by doing multiple Exo-Tenarils and then razing cities and claiming sovereignty might not work out so well.

Hmm.  Strangely, EF's results seemed to indicate that the terraform would remain, but the town that is on the test spot (-710/844) now is on 5-food.  I wonder if that's because the terraform failed, or someone just teleported a town on top of it.  I wish there was some sort of way to view the history for a specific square.  Oh the stories they would tell...


Posted By: Hora
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2013 at 11:49
Originally posted by Darmon Darmon wrote:

Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

This explains some terraformed squares that seemed to change after cities were razed.  I had seen it happen a few times, but it was not very common.  So terraforming and then razing a city is not as "safe" as terraforming and then capturing a city.  Likewise, the proposal by some (I think EF in particular) to terraform by doing multiple Exo-Tenarils and then razing cities and claiming sovereignty might not work out so well.

Hmm.  Strangely, EF's results seemed to indicate that the terraform would remain, but the town that is on the test spot (-710/844) now is on 5-food.  I wonder if that's because the terraform failed, or someone just teleported a town on top of it.  I wish there was some sort of way to view the history for a specific square.  Oh the stories they would tell...

Yeah, perhaps make it a research... 
...Perhaps some geomancer cutting down a tree to count the year-rings, or something like that   LOL

...oh, yes, and of course this research would be needed to subsequently research terraforming... Wink


Posted By: Darmon
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2013 at 06:44
Originally posted by GM Stormcrow GM Stormcrow wrote:

QFT - the system attempts to revert land to what it should have been after the Poussin/fractal terrain, elevation and biome seeding; if the recently evacuated terrain isn't currently what it should be in the eyes of the system.  

The map contains concepts of each square's current terrain type, its underlying terrain type (which is what it was intended to be after the seeding), and its original terrain type (what it was when the map was first created, before the seeding).

Hope that helps.

SC

Hmm, something just occurred to me to ask.  I assume the data contained in the datafile_worldmap.txt data dump is the "current" terrain type (since I think I've seen that file change, which the other two terrain types -- underlying and original -- shouldn't); is that correct?

And a follow-up question, assuming that's accurate...I don't suppose it would be worth the effort on your end to ask if you could make the other data sets publicly available?  I can imagine some app developers would be greatly interested in the "underlying" data, to see what the potential of each square is...though perhaps that would spoil the surprise?  (The "original" data I only included so he wouldn't feel left out; who knows though, maybe someone would be interested in looking at historical data.)


Posted By: Darmon
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2013 at 17:38
Here's a fun update: Exodus does indeed seem broken, since I just saw it revert a 7-food/3-wood spot that was "Fertile Ground" into a 7-food/3-wood spot that was just "Plains" (which as you may know, is not a naturally occurring terrain combination, and should not be showing up under the conditions where terrain should be reverting to what SC called "underlying" terrain).


Posted By: Yhina
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2013 at 11:51
Maybe it just changes the terrain type, and not its "stats"..

I have just exodus-ed from a large mountain, and it went "poof", becoming a 55555 plains.



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