just an observation
Printed From: Illyriad
Category: The World
Forum Name: Elgea
Forum Description: For everything related to the Elgea Continent
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=4787
Printed Date: 17 Apr 2022 at 08:44
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: just an observation
Posted By: asr
Subject: just an observation
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 19:25
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Why people like me will play this game? I don't like rules. But i realized this game is built on rules and also the imaginary rules by players. People like me will have already(or will) lost the game to tiredness of following the rules. I must always calculate what is right and what is wrong at that moment. There really is nothing separating the right and wrong, they are imaginary and will be changed accordingly to the "weather" who created them. We both know very well that the rules are imaginary. But still we follow them! oh why? Therefore i see no point of following the rules created by someone else than yourself. |
Replies:
Posted By: Epidemic
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 19:44
| Nobody has to follow any of the player based rules, but everybody has to deal with the consequences of their actions. The rules enforced by the more established accounts are there so this game doesn't end up like all the others. |
Posted By: Grego
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 19:51
| You can follow rules of other people, break them and create your own, or float in between. It's not like you don't have a choice.. |
Posted By: Darkwords
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 19:59
| If you feel that no-one has the right to react against your chosen actions, then you are saying nothing more than 'I want everyone to follow my rules'. |
Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 20:08
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there is alot of overbearing people in this game trying to enforce a play style. personally i am here for fun and i just like being a total goof. i dont understand why people take the game personally or get offended when someone plays it differently than themselves. alot of the older people that play here just need to relax, i mean we playing elves and orcs and have castles or towns and making war items. if the game ends for a player its not the end of the world, its a silly game to have fun. if you get beat in a war remember its pretend, if war occurs remember no one really dies, i do wish the gold was real but it isnt, if someone steals they really not stealing. real morals and ethics dont apply in this game unless u break the very liberal game rules....everyone just needs to dance and paint their bodies, enjoy playing, have fun!come to the dark side, play evil, tease but dont get personal and kill kill kill, foaming at the bit |
Posted By: Aral
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 20:13
Yup. We know. ------------- Aral Llc is not responsible for any grievous bodily harm sustained while reading this signature. No rights reserved. |
gameplayer wrote:Posted By: Deranzin
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 20:20
Point me to a game with NO RULES, and I will fill your storehouses for a month.
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Posted By: asr
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 21:08
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2nd thing i discovered is that: We are basically playing alone this game. We follow ONLY our own codecs(to be or not to be) and the way we choose is decided by the food what is fed upon us. We can't be creative. We have a choice to surrender or to struggle and then surrender. |
Posted By: asr
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 21:19
i agree, also agree with your second statement.
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Posted By: Yeesha D'ni
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 21:40
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@ gameplayer.... if you like it or not. Humans are playing this interactive game, humans are shaping this sandbox. What makes us human? What's the base of human interaction? It is.... : rules. Unwritten rules of conduct are making Elgea to a wonderful virtual place to be. These rules were written by generations of players. They may be constricting in your point of view, it's up to you to have that opinion. But in my point of view they are quite helpful as well, as I can log out everyday without any virtual evildoers looting my cities overnight, I needed days and weeks to build them up , or raiding newbies, only, because they can. If you like that gameplay, there might be games better suiting for you, which allow unprovoced raiding or ganking - fun. And there are hundreds of them. But what is quite unique is a gaming community like that of Illyriad. I must admit: For a new player with an unconventional, maybe (virtual) evil gameplay Illyriad is no easy place to persist. Maybe TBL will change that. But as we will keep our old alliances Elgean politics and diplomatics will swap over to the Broken Lands, I guess. But however: play
your kind of "evil" gameplay.... You are free to do that. Others
(free as you) will have fun either to inhibit. As that's what you deserve, if
you start inhibiting others, at least in my point of view. So have fun playing
the bad dude stealing weaker pupils breaktime snack …! At least you might give it a try! |
Posted By: asr
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 22:01
imho only the first choice is "free" others are depending on the consequences(to be or not to be). It is for the other players too who is thinking that they make choices. It is a perfect chain. Rules interacting with each other. If someone falls away then the rules also change.
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Posted By: asr
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 22:05
valid point. what i think does not change anything, the fact is that i still need to face the consequences.
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Posted By: asr
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 22:09
Where's i am there is also rules. Real life or not. I don't see any difference between game and real world.
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Posted By: asr
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 22:11
i don't know a game without rules, but i am figuring out how to stay still.
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Posted By: WeeAshley
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 22:19
----> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0109870/" rel="nofollow - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0109870/ I can currently hold 70,000 in "Pepperidge" and 2000 in "Chester's Field." I very much look forward to getting your first shipments! ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/226073" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: WeeAshley
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 22:24
It's going to be fun to see what happens as the lawful interact more with the chaotic as the game moves forward :) ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/226073" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Deranzin
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 22:44
Nice ... sounds like a rule to me though ... 
Hey, that is a movie !  |
Posted By: WeeAshley
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 22:53
There was no rule about it not being a movie! /me pulls up "Trade Movement" in anticipation of incoming shipments :b ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/226073" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Deranzin
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 23:28
Of course there was ... I specifically asked for someone to point me to an actual game with no rules, not an abstract title aimed to create suspense to an audience.  |
Posted By: Aral
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 23:33
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Life. Life is a game with no rules. You can do absolutely ANYTHING, however almost everything you do results in death. But, no rules! ------------- Aral Llc is not responsible for any grievous bodily harm sustained while reading this signature. No rights reserved. |
Posted By: Yeesha D'ni
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2013 at 23:55
Whatever Captain Kirk taught you ...  Nothing against breaking rules, otherwise there would be no development. Rules are the results of a steady negotiation process and decisions. So what is "that ominous rule"? In pluralistic world as in Illyriad are as many rules as humans. But: there are certain common agreements. In RL and in Illyriad as well, which can't be that virtual and unreal as real persons play it. What are those common agreements (which changed a lot since server start, I guess)?. In most cases they are helpful (in my point of view). To make Elgea a nice place to build settlements and cultivate contacts. A nice place that can be left overnight to find it intact (at least in most cases) the other morning. Sometimes these unwritten rules prevent a minorities gameplay, which wasn't able to enforce their rules or maybe lawlessness. Why? As the majority wants it like that! Ok, you could counter now: "sh*t is delicious. A billion flies can't be wrong." And you may be right: Not always majority is right in that, what they do or want. But: as rules always change in the long run (in Elgea and in RL), the base or condition for rules stays: every action has a reaction. In other words. Do what you want. But don't cry, if the echo hurts.... |
Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 01:55
| er ok, but i recommend people just have fun, maybe thats following made up rules in a make believe game for u, but to me it just means to dance.....dance dance dance |
Posted By: bansisdead
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 05:53
So then as a rule anything you do kills you? ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/124253" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Yeesha D'ni
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 08:16
If you like dancing that much, I suggest, you visit techno raves, carnival parades or maybe hayloft parties instead of sitting in front of your PC and dreaming to dance.  But, if we, with a tiny chance meet there, and you pretend, having dance fun is stepping on my feet, I would kick your ***, as I don't like my feet to get stepped on. Even if you pretend, fun is stepping on my bros or sisters feet wilfully, I would help them kicking your ***, as I believe in your freedom and fun stopping right there, where you hurt that of others. But: if you just like dancing, ... have fun ! |
Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 08:57
| Mate-- Sounds like you like to dance when it is music you like to dance to and not when you don't like to dance to it. Welcome to life. |
Posted By: asr
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 10:10
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metaphorically speaking yes, the dance i dance is determined by the music. But i am not the Dj. In most cases i prefer to sit in the corner because i don't like when Dj starts playing hardcore after seeing my dance.
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Posted By: Tordenkaffen
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 10:31
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Dont try to be the DJ for that is impossible. Instead try and realise the truth... There is no DJ... |
Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 10:49
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The beauty of this game is that it is what we make of it. So... Yes... Other games allow newbies to die on sight. We could do that here. But we CHOOSE to not have that. That is part of our culture. That is fundamentally different from other games. This isn't something the game designers have done. This is something the community has chosen to do. We didn't have to do this. We chose to do this. |
Posted By: Aristeas
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 11:36
Well, rules are found within every single known society, and an individual mind can´t work without them (even while you are thinking you are using grammar (and/or logic), not to speak all the other rules you are abiding to unconsciously, because you can´t deal with all things at the same time consciously, and if you would do, you would never get to the "higher" things we are usually positioning our freedom of choice at). You don´t have to define the human nature by it (wouldn´t do it either), but you can´t deny it´s part of his nature and working quite well most of the time. Of course the rules are changing, as we and the world are changing (in part because of those rules, so we get nasty double-dialectics), but we can influence the way they change, and untill now not the maximum of fun for the few was choosen to be favoured (and we have historically speaking many societies on earth, that stickes/sticked to this rules for hunderds or even thousands of years, so it´s clearly a viable option). And I haven´t read a good argument yet for changeing it^^ As in your example Kirk is of cause not breaking every rule at once (and by reprogramming he has to use the rules of the programms languange of course) and only an implicit one, with two effects: 1. He can rescue helpless civilians on the level of the game 2. He can make the point, that he believes that there is always a possible positive way out that not end´s in death and destruction (to slightly rephrase it and make it even more apllyable to Illy: a war-scenario leading to certain death of 1-2 ships´n´crews can be made into a totally peaceful scenario!) And that is of cause sticking to the higher ethos of the starfleet, and not just neo-liberal my-fun-and-freedom-comes-first-to-hell-with-the-others! If the Kobayashi Maru prooves anything with respect to Illy, than I think it gives right to the many people trying to make it a good place for as many persons possible, even if it is at times paradox, because they can be referring to the higher ethos and are looking at the possible effects. Of course Kirk is having his fun doing that, but that just shows that you don´t need angels for utopias... |
Posted By: WeeAshley
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 13:42
rule noun. a principle or regulation governing conduct, action, procedure, arrangement. While I agree that rules are found in every human society, they are not universal. Any "society" with a population of 1 does not necessarily have rules. It can, but it doesn't necessarily have to. But that is just to be argumentative. You waxed poetical about Kirk and his 'rules.' However, judging someone else's rules is impossible as we only have their outward behaviours to judge them by. But this aside, my post about Kirk didn't state, "He doesn't have rules" - rather it stated "To win he broke the rules." And to make plain my point from that post: I suspect the people in this game who 'win' will do so by breaking some rules as well. (Unless you redefine "win" as have fun, or some other thing that losers redefine words to mean so they can cushion their fragile egos... <evil>MWhahahahahhhaha!</evil>) ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/226073" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Rorgash
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 14:02
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Freedom!!! i will raze him now because clearly he rules dont apply to him :D ------------- 
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Posted By: Machete
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 14:30
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rules rules rules This conversation wouldn't even be happening without the rules of language. There are rules to every game because by definition a game has a goal of some sort to declare a winner or person winning. Even if you create a game and state there are no winners or losers in "this" game or even rules to the game, you have just defined a rule. I enjoy the game the most when I fully understand the explicit and implicit rules and then play within those rules to the best of my abilities. There are some games that this enjoyment is just not enough, so I move onto a different game. I like to play Checkers; however, I won't play Checkers day after day for hours a day. Sorry for the ramblings of Machete.
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Posted By: Aristeas
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 14:34
(To some extent) I agree with you on that one, that´s why I was referring to the effects/what he was doing/saying.
Of course (and there are few rules that can be fulfilled totally, usually there is always an extent of deviation involved even by trying living to the letter of a rule. So personally I think the ways you arrive at a certain judgement are much more important than rules)! But there are different ways of doing it, and sticking to the rules on a higher order may be one of it (see the Ursor Directive thread in the politics Forum for a nice example), and if you are looking on the player stats right now, it can be even quite sucsessful. The (partially) rulebreaking wars in favour of the rules have been won by the side in favour of these rules so far... That can change of course 
They do, as the victors do, meaning is context-related at least, if not context-generated, so every usage of a word is a kind of redefinition. Meanings are not naturally endowed upon us (neither are lexicons and dictionaries), but results of struggles over them, that´s just what we are doing here
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Posted By: WeeAshley
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 14:38
Ari - look up "tongue-in-cheek." It's an English slang/expression my German friend! I think we are agreeing in an argumentative tone. It's always amusing when that happens. When did Dwarves get so philosophical? /me laments not playing an Orc. ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/226073" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Aristeas
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 14:54
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Well, face-to-face I would have seen that your tongue was in your cheek, but hard to tell if you are just seeing the typed words ;) ^^ (like the picture of it, will try to remember it !)
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Posted By: Hadus
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 20:33
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I have a theory. I believe the sort of "evil" or malicious game play-style some players argue that they are being denied in Illyriad would be more easliy accomplished if people tried to execute it in a more well thought-out way, one that fits better into the Illyriad community. What I'm suggesting is a shift in the mindset of an aggressive PvP city-builder player that allows them to thrive in Illyriad while still pursuing the not-so-warm-and-fuzzy game play they desire. Specifically: 1. Make it fun for your targets as well as your self. 2. Make your losses as glorious and entertaining as your victories. 3. Show people you aren't as aggressive in real life--unless you are!  4. Roleplay! Roleplay! ROLEPLAY! The first two kind of go hand in hand. If you can find a way to make your victim enjoy the conflict too, they will be less likely to get angry and seek help. For example, say you raid a player or thieve them and get caught. Challenge them to steal it back! Demonstrate that you're not trying to endanger their Illyriad well-being, but looking for some entertainment. A major part of this is selecting targets who have a chance of fighting back; the other part is how well you communicate with those you are attacking. Likewise, if you do get in too much trouble and are punished for it, savor the fall! View your Illy cities like sand-castles; it's as much fun to knock 'em down as to build 'em up. If you enter into aggressive PvP this way, you will be able to enjoy the outcome no matter who it favors. Maybe write a funny blog about how your helpless attempts to raid legendary cities keep ending with your kingdom in shambles. Or boast in GC about how you just got caught stealing from a member of a major alliance (for the 5th time) and have multiple sieges inbound on your capital. I feel like number three is the most important. It's far easier to retaliate severely against a player you dislike than against one who you know to be a good person and generally helpful community member. I sincerely believe there is a potential niche in Illyriad for "troublemakers" who are actually liked for the skirmishes they bring--because their form of "trouble" does not involve attacking out of spite or pride but for fun and mischief. Number four is simply what I believe to be an excellent strategy for carrying out to 1 through 3. Roleplaying can be an excellent "excuse" for entering into combat, makes losing battles and cities more enjoyable, and is enjoyed by Illyriad players in general. Just a theory, one I have never tested myself, but perhaps one day... ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/157483" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: geofrey
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 20:58
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OP is a great example of troll post that need to stop. I am officially unofficially closing this post. ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/45534" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 21:07
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well my bfs say i am very aggressive especially when i wear certain leathers. but all the birds come out and sing and the sun shines brightly when i walk outside. i talk american and often use slang which very few peeps even have a clue its meaning.(dance dance, grins evil) if theirs a wod i can not speel correctly or a way to writ anthing the wrong way count me in. free spirits are rarely accepted cause we pose a threat to rule followin peeps. for instance i think the peeps that accept the current farmville play style are evil and ruinning the potential of this great game. but i amuse my self by playing the game naked and use the computer while doing my inverted gravity machine. gosh who is really the strange ones playing....so watch me, and by the way theres alot of peeps like me playing here.....where are my whips and blades...i got to have some fun!....remember this is just a game and has little correlation to real life morals or ethics! grins exposing her fangs |
Posted By: Beecks
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 21:37
I like this. It's important not to underestimate common courtesy and the effect it can have on people. +1 for Hadus. |
Posted By: Hadus
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 00:05
Thanks Beecks!
In case anyone's wondering, that actually means: "Stop caring when I attack you and don't invest any emotion into playing this game." ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/157483" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 00:23
| actually it was hipster slang talking about how cute scarecrow is when he smiles and wonders if he available....winks at the cutie |
Posted By: asr
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 11:14
| Well then i have no other better choice to pick a side what always wins, i will serve the almighty. |
Posted By: asr
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 11:17
| whatever the result is. |
Posted By: Drejan
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 11:24
| Play as you like ... just don't blame others when they siege you please... |
Posted By: Grego
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 11:33
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So if you can't play as you like without consequences you will bow to the almighty. Nice.... |
Posted By: asr
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 11:36
| i wonder do i sound hostile somehow? i try to play neutral but it is hard to do it seems. Playing with my own rules. |
Posted By: asr
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 11:45
Are you okay? Don't worry i am elf, sending you healing light.
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Posted By: asr
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 12:05
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History also have shown there are egomaniacs who likes only their order, their way. Sandbox is exact replica to real life. Clash of the egos. Therefore i play sandbox game to get to know myself.
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Posted By: Drejan
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 13:02
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy
It's simple: you are free to do whatever you like, the others are free to do whatever they like to you. Or the free to do whatever you like apply only to you? And if yes...isn't that an arbitrary rule? I will add this: stop using the forum as a chat, i'm sure you can use only one or two replies to say the same things. And yes this forum too has arbitrary rules enforced by the owners of the game.
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Posted By: Hadus
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 13:08
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You can pick the side that wins, or you can spend time finding like-minded players, growing together, learning more about the game, and becoming the side that always wins. You know, kind of like the peaceful players who are stopping you from playing your way now did, a couple years ago. But, like most (not all) of the war gamers here, you'd prefer to complain about it in the forums rather than experiment with new ways of doing things. Picking random fights and pointing fingers when players call for help clearly doesn't work, so why not try a different approach to playing "your way" that lets you skirt the rules more? ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/157483" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: geofrey
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 15:19
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4kUKfb_A6P0/UPwxcADNYBI/AAAAAAAAGcY/2DuK8L2NKOI/s1600/no-power-here.jpg" rel="nofollow - http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4kUKfb_A6P0/UPwxcADNYBI/AAAAAAAAGcY/2DuK8L2NKOI/s1600/no-power-here.jpg
------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/45534" rel="nofollow"> |
Posted By: WeeAshley
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 15:26
Welcome to "Talking on the Internet 101": Today we will talk about how everything you say on the internet will be read in the most hostile, inflammatory, sarcastic, and arrogant way possible by everyone that reads it. We recommend rereading something in the most positive way before you respond to it even though this goes against your natural instinct. We will also discuss how prolonged use of the internet shrinks penises. As a result, people on the internet are very concerned about what other people think of them, and so often respond defensively and combatively. We always recommend you reread your post before clicking submit in the most harsh and aggressive way possible and edit it to better convey your pleasant tone. Failing the above we strongly suggest that you not take anything said to you too seriously. There is no one on the internet above the effective social-skill age of 12. Best of luck in your continuing travels!
------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/226073" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: GM Luna
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 16:33
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Closing thread for off topic and inappropriate remarks. GM Luna ------------- GM Luna | Illyriad Community Manager | community@illyriad.co.uk 
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