Bring Back the 'Bitter Sea'
Printed From: Illyriad
Category: The World
Forum Name: Politics & Diplomacy
Forum Description: If you run an alliance on Elgea, here's where you should make your intentions public.
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=4774
Printed Date: 17 Apr 2022 at 05:12
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Bring Back the 'Bitter Sea'
Posted By: belargyle
Subject: Bring Back the 'Bitter Sea'
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2013 at 08:43
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There is an aspect to this game that has been lost since they took out the old section "The Bitter Sea". It was there many things could be hashed out and quibbled over, rants givens voice and objections a place to be heard. The Politics & Diplomacy section was used more like a news board, where alliances gave notice to others of political intent, desired actions or stated alliance policy to give fair and community wide notice for what was going to (or potentially to) take place and yet give the opportunity for the community at large to speak their peace. This gave the alliance a good feel for how their policy would be received and whether it might needs some tweaking. Shoot alliances used to post here about their newly achieved Confederation status or mergers of alliances. Since the Bitter Sea section was removed this has basically become a combination of both and it has become more of the complaint room (nothing necessarily wrong with that) than anything that often deals with actual politics and diplomacy. Now I'm not saying it didn't flow over into here sometimes but more often than not people understood the "Politics & Diplomacy" was not a place for rants (good or bad) and that the "Bitter Sea" was not the place to post Community information for the masses. I would like to the see the Bitter Sea, re-established and give the community a place to be able to vent (properly and with potential courtesy) without the fear of threads being shut down for being off topic (hey, it happens). Removing the 'Bitter Sea' section is like sealing a release valve on a high pressure machine, without it being able to be used, it will eventually create an effect that is never good. For me personally, I would like to see the "Politics & Diplomacy" go back to how it was previously and mainly used. Again, while I understand there is some cross over regarding content, in the main they were typically used in the manner discussed above. Anyone feel the same?? (or is it just me) |
Replies:
Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2013 at 08:54
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I second that, but maybe it shouldn't be labelled "bitter"? It was, in essence, our politics area, which the GMs are allowing to continue now, so... Bela... to a good degree, we are getting what you (and I) wanted. Having a spirited discussion of the politics of Illy in the Forums is part and parcel to the game. We have to have a place to do this. If there are legal reasons for us to not be able to do so, I'm confident that third party discussion sites will crop up... |
Posted By: HATHALDIR
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2013 at 09:09
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+1
------------- There's worse blokes than me!! |
Posted By: belargyle
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2013 at 09:11
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I agree.. maybe call it.. The Raging Sea.. or the White Squall :) But I understand completely about legal issues, so for me, I think it should be equally monitored (due to the fact it can get heated) to keep down such things as name calling, excessive vitrol, ect... These are without a doubt important issues to watch for and such actions need to be curbed as they arise. I know some don't like it, but hey, we are guests here and it IS their playground, we just get to play in their sandbox. |
Posted By: bansisdead
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2013 at 09:53
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British law allows the right to expression (under article 10 of the Human Rights Act 1998) but then puts conditions on that ie you cannot use 'hate' speech too incite violence, defamation and invasion of privacy. Im not sure what the content was like in bitter sea forum as I started just after it was closed down, but Im sure Illyriad is just covering its legal requirements under the rather grey area of British/EU/UN law. ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/124253" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Ossian
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2013 at 10:06
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Bringing back the Bitter Sea is one way to deal with increasing tendency of players ( who include leaders of alliances) to derail threads by resorting to personalised attacks, flaming and trolling. Another is for the mods and GM's to take a more rigourous approach and suspend the offending players ingame and forum accounts irregardless of who that player may be or their apparent popularity in the game.I don't have any stats to bear this out, but it seems to me that Illyriad may be attracting players who view it as a "family safe" environment and that more and more parents and children are joining to play this game as a family unit. Parents will be expecting the Devs, GM's to maintain control of the boards .
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Posted By: bansisdead
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2013 at 10:23
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I think the "personalised attacks, flaming and trolling." were probably the problem with bitter sea. As I said covering legal bases.
------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/124253" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Kale
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2013 at 10:42
| I agree. Bringing it back would be a Good Thing. |
Posted By: belargyle
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2013 at 11:46
And that is precisely my point. The same stuff that is going on now, was the same stuff going on back then.. the only distinction is that it is more monitored and that is good. My main point is not about dealing with increasing tendency of players.. this has 'always' been a constant but it was not always done in the same location. In my opinion, there needs to be some kind of a divide for this aspect of the forum to have any real value and usability. Thus having one section designated more for rants and/or opinions, as well as another for more issues or news (whether individual or alliance based) would help the information disseminated to go to said areas with at least a general expectation of what will be there. Currently I know many who don't even visit here much anymore (if at all) since the majority of the topics either are or come back to the current War event. Again, nothing wrong with these kinds of threads but trying to find threads to yield other current events are getting less and less as fewer people visit here. This USED to be the place to set forth you alliance policies, claims, ect.. and thus coming here was fairly important to keep abreast of current happenings in allainces, without having to visit each alliance individually. It also encouraged Illy players to become more involved in understanding and learning about other alliances and even becoming involved in the various aspects of many of the unique threads. Anyway.. again, my nickles worth (for what it's worth) |
Ossian wrote:Posted By: Tordenkaffen
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2013 at 11:52
| I agree with Belargyle, restraining the communitys communication does not help the game at all, rants are to be expected in a game such as this. |
Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2013 at 12:41
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alot of people play these games for the give and take of the verbal communication..quit looking at me, i play cause i am under house arrest and i cant find my bf to bother...the exchanges are kindof fun as long as they dont get personal and become sick mind games and they give our mother luna alot to do...........hugs luna, i will try to behave, hides my bad stuff in my purse |
Posted By: Beecks
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2013 at 12:59
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I agree with Belargyle. If the rants were separated from the meat of the politics forum (declarations, policy explanations) it would be easier to shift through the forums to find the relevant stuff. |
Posted By: GM Luna
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2013 at 15:30
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The "Bitter Sea" was a sanctioned area for insults and trolling (made back when the GMs didn't have time to actively moderate and there was no community manager) and nothing more. I'm not going to put it back, because there is no place for insults and trolling on these forums. Requesting a place to do so is quite frankly ridiculous. The rules exist here for a reason. You are all welcome to respectfully debate without using personal insults with the forums the way they are now. If you think you are capable of doing so, you are welcome to prove it to me in your posts. Any further comments or questions about this can be sent to me in PM. Luna ------------- GM Luna | Illyriad Community Manager | community@illyriad.co.uk 
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