PEACE
Printed From: Illyriad
Category: The World
Forum Name: Politics & Diplomacy
Forum Description: If you run an alliance on Elgea, here's where you should make your intentions public.
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=4633
Printed Date: 17 Apr 2022 at 04:19
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: PEACE
Posted By: HATHALDIR
Subject: PEACE
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2012 at 06:36
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I am wondering if those the expound the virtues of honour, are also willing to have peace with what i believe are a worthy foe, the bloodshed has gone on for long enough. Neither party should be subjected to surrender, respect should be the victor of this war. I am prepared for the onslaught, lambast away! ------------- There's worse blokes than me!! |
Replies:
Posted By: Darmon
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2012 at 08:49
| Wouldn't there still need to be some sort of peace treaty that lays out practical plans to end the war, and put policies into place to avoid similar escalations in the future? |
Posted By: Deranzin
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2012 at 09:21
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I have no idea, but this is certainly not going to happen in the public forums. You probably know that and the following suggestion so I do not see the point of this thread, but please forward your request to our embassy. Be well ! :)
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Posted By: Llyorn Of Jaensch
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2012 at 11:15
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Exhausting yourself upon us, and upon exhaustion extending your hand, does not give you any cause for pity, nor moral right of exit. Failure does not equal the moral high ground. ------------- "ouch...best of luck." HonoredMule |
Posted By: HATHALDIR
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2012 at 11:44
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Peace is for everyone Derazin, the Embassy is for surrender. ------------- There's worse blokes than me!! |
Posted By: Rorgash
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2012 at 11:47
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Bah, go drown yourself, To War, Bloodshed and VICTORY!!! ------------- 
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Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2012 at 11:57
| gosh, this is just starting to be fun. there is alot of new strategy being planned. this might just be the beginning of the war. anyways, good luck!!! back to making troops, weapons, dips, and all the things we make in this game...mixing some really cute shades of war paint too. |
Posted By: Rorgash
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2012 at 15:39
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someone told me that this kind of topic is the OP taunting players into attacking him. If nobody rises to the bait, he will have to find something else to amuse himself. -------------
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Posted By: Tordenkaffen
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2012 at 17:08
| I find this topic redundant and populist, whatever your and Haths original motives might have been. Leave wardiscussions to the implicated parties, if genereal GC pop are getting bored they can wage their own wars and talk about those. |
Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2012 at 17:35
 That is a great line!
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Llyorn Of Jaensch wrote:Posted By: Deranzin
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2012 at 18:51
I do not understand this ... you want to talk peace, but outside of the place that it is meant to be discussed .?. Do you expect peace to land upon your heads or something .?. And how do you expect someone to talk with you if you show reluctance to even enter their house .?. I had an IGM some weeks ago telling me that "we should declare peaaaaace" as if it is something one-sided to be decided on a whim of circumstance. Really if you people want peace, stop beating about the bush and stage some serious peace talks between the people in charge, instead of this public non-sense topic. Do you honestly expect the leaders of both sides to conduct their negotiations publicly .?. Simple questions which I honestly do not understand.
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Posted By: Nesse
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2012 at 19:44
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Uhm, the place that it is meant to be discussed? Sounds a bit one-sided to me. Why would peace *not* be discussed publically? Simple question which I honestly do not have a reasonable reply to. (I do understand the question, though.) |
Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2012 at 19:48
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sadness, leaders might be leading their alliances to ruin. they should reconsider their alliances involvement in this war before its too late. study your locations, alot can not be defended and as this continues certain elements in the game can not protect them. there is a feeding frenzy about to start, blood has been spilled. good luck to everyone, may we weep for those about to fall but remember its just a game. |
Posted By: Mr Damage
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2012 at 21:34
| To quote my favourite line from the Peanuts Comic Strip "Oh good grief". |
Posted By: Silverlake
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2012 at 21:49
You declare, you surrender to end it PERIOD ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/57338" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: scaramouche
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2012 at 21:51
------------- NO..I dont do the Fandango! |
Posted By: Silverlake
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2012 at 21:52
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pride go-ith before the fall ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/57338" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2012 at 21:53
| Pride cometh before a fall. |
Posted By: scaramouche
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2012 at 22:00
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LOL..you guys swallow a quotation book or something? ------------- NO..I dont do the Fandango! |
Posted By: Garth
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2012 at 23:02
Book-swallowing cometh before the quoteth. ------------- Garthen |
Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2012 at 23:04
| Quoth the raven: Forevermore. |
Posted By: Deranzin
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2012 at 23:16
Well, you mean to tell me that you will just shout "we want peace", but won't even bother to even talk about it because you do not like to go to the H? embassy .?. Sounds pretty weird to me ... it is not as if anyone is going to bite you for going there to talk :p
I've never heard of public negotiations over any matter (except in "funny" hypocritical notions like the "open dialogue") ... even in RL, for the simpliest matter you go inside an office and close the door behind you and talk in privacy on the matter at hand.
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Posted By: Diomedes
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2012 at 04:28
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I find it mildly curious that players want to engage in processes and protocols in order to supposedly end a war as though Illy mirrors RL. Let me remind any who want to hear and comprehend: this is not RL. The current disagreement between various parties could easily be settled if players would stop treating this as if it were RL, and treat it for what it is - a fun game, and an opportunity to engage constructively with others in a virtual community. If one party wants to declare peace, then I say, "More power to you, friends!" It seems to me that it is very difficult to continue a fight when you are the only party doing the fighting. And for the record, I'm in no way involved in the present little stoush  ------------- "Walk in the way of the good, for the righteous will dwell in the land" |
Posted By: Vibs
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2012 at 06:00
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Been reading about this war for what seems like forever right now. No goal for victory from either side. No condition for a cease fire. No conditions for peace. Just talks of peace, honor, alliance/confed bashing etc etc. Hath is the only person I have seen trying to broker peace well before everyone went all out with the war. I commend him for that and to sticking to the line of peace, while fighting for the defence of his alliance and confed through out this entire period.
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Posted By: Halcyon
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2012 at 10:20
It seems to me that very few have in fact went all out in this war. The fact that it is going for quite sometime shows that no small amount of restraint is shown by both sides. If this was an all out war it would have been finished by now.
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Posted By: Rorgash
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2012 at 10:31
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no it woudnt, had planned on writing more but the only side who goes to the forum is the peace hugging side so i dont care to try and represent mine anymore -------------
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Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2012 at 11:24
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wars, in a war game do last a long time and yes several of us have an end game. if certain groups want out they can surrender and accept terms or they can switch sides to speed the end. back to making troops, weapons, and all the war stuff, gosh at this time we cant make plows! |
Posted By: Rorgash
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2012 at 12:53
Sharpened plows  -------------
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Posted By: Deranzin
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2012 at 12:54
In that regard how come and you do not find it curious how many people act as drama queens over a war in a game and sometimes behave as real knights are dying in the fields .?. :p as for this, to continue my point :
Voila : http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/trash-consone_topic4326_page1.html So, as far as I know, anyone that REALLY wants peace knows where to find H? leadership ... if you are so bored to even knock on a virtual door and say "hello we came to talk about peace", then stop crying crocodile tears over a war in a game. Happy new year's eve ! :)
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Posted By: abstractdream
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2012 at 14:33
Not true. I'll grant you that "they" are generally more vocal but "we" are here and do pay attention. ------------- |
Posted By: Arian
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2012 at 15:33
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I'm sure it will be very satisfying for H? to accept all those surrenders. Assuming the other side gives them of course. Lesson from history though....for those who care... After WW1 the winners hit the losers hard and humiliated them so badly that it festered for many years and was one of the primary cause of WW2. The Versailles treaty it was called. It never really pays in the long run to humiliate anyone, WW2 was far worse in every respect than the war which preceded it. And I don't think anyone really came out a winner from it in the long run. Just something to think about maybe.... ------------- 'Do you want ice with that?' |
Posted By: Hora
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2012 at 16:21
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Hmm, peace sounds nice, and I for my part would stop defending as soon as no sieges are coming to Consone towns. That's my (quite simple) terms for peace. If H? thinks about similar ones, the war might be over right now... (would even buy them one beer, or even two, if they agree ).
If you want to switch sides, you're welcome to join us Quitting the war is fine by me, but changing sides might be bad PR for an alliance... at least regarding the side they left...
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Posted By: Hora
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2012 at 16:27
...plan to end the war: Both sides stop sending out armies. Simple as that  ...policies to avoid this in future: Both sides should talk, and give a chance for reparations and diplomacy before sending sieges and stuff... Simple as that, and all other plans would only be more complex variations of that... And sadly there can't be any guarranties for any side following such a policy
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Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2012 at 16:31
| yes, i hear the other side has cute guys but this side has more drunks, at least happier drunks, good luck in the upcoming offensive. i will say this, i am learning alot about the different war functions....this game is so awesome....grins with bloody fangs....best browser war game ive ever played...good luck in the peace thing...puke puke puke |
Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2012 at 16:38
True diplomacy takes place in private. The forum and GC are just for drama and "spin." There are goals. Terms have been given to each alliance requesting same. Some have accepted, many have refused. |
Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2012 at 16:42
RES tried that and Consone refused to make a deal with RES leaving RES only the path of war to eliminate the perpetual bullying by Consone. Consone has no credibility with this idea of talking out a problem.
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Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2012 at 17:16
You have several bad assumptions in your post - let me list some of them: 1) War is bad 2) Everyone dislikes war. 3) This game is like real life. 4) This game is not about building the troops and materiel for war and then using them. ------------- "This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM "a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill |
Posted By: Gossip Boy
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2012 at 17:22
I certainly do agree that Illy is not like RL but then why do you want RL like secret peace negotiations and why can't they take place in public forums. You can begin by stating your war goals (becoz I fail to see any) ------------- Elessar2 [08:34]<Rill> when you've just had part of your brain taken out, you lack a certain amount of credibility <KillerPoodle> I can say anything I like and it is impossible to prove or disprove |
Posted By: Tordenkaffen
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2012 at 18:07
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Gossip boy, why do you assume that the peace negotiations are any of your business? |
Posted By: Deranzin
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2012 at 18:19
Plus don't you find it funny when a person hiding behind an alias and does not write with his actual game nickname, calls for other to be forthright and public about everything .?.
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Posted By: Gossip Boy
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2012 at 18:20
First, this discussion is taking place in the public forum and I 've lost 2 cities (45k pop combined ) in the war so its every bit my business to see how this war ends. I can take a parting shot which would be typical H? like but i choose to be different ------------- Elessar2 [08:34]<Rill> when you've just had part of your brain taken out, you lack a certain amount of credibility <KillerPoodle> I can say anything I like and it is impossible to prove or disprove |
Posted By: Gossip Boy
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2012 at 18:33
That elessar2/carra on my signature represents my accounts in the game as far as I know.Maybe your intellectual self have seen something ridiculously funny in it. I would very much like you to share it with us mortal beings  ------------- Elessar2 [08:34]<Rill> when you've just had part of your brain taken out, you lack a certain amount of credibility <KillerPoodle> I can say anything I like and it is impossible to prove or disprove |
Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2012 at 23:14
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Elessar/Carra/Gossip Boy: If your signature line is supposed to identify you in any way, please leave my name out of it. Hopefully most discerning people would recognize that you are not claiming to be me, but then many people don't read that carefully.
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Posted By: Rorgash
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2012 at 23:16
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but then, you're a Crow... -------------
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Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2012 at 23:17
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oh, and if you are going to quote me, I prefer the quote on Mona Lisa's profile: [29 Dec 23:51]<Rill> less talking, more sieging!
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Posted By: Gossip Boy
Date Posted: 01 Jan 2013 at 00:24
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I sieged 3 towns in last week 2 captured 1 razed :) Look I am already following your preaching ------------- Elessar2 [08:34]<Rill> when you've just had part of your brain taken out, you lack a certain amount of credibility <KillerPoodle> I can say anything I like and it is impossible to prove or disprove |
Posted By: Gossip Boy
Date Posted: 01 Jan 2013 at 00:25
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Btw I don't know a better way to reveal my identity.if anyone can help me with that..i would be grateful for their help :) ------------- Elessar2 [08:34]<Rill> when you've just had part of your brain taken out, you lack a certain amount of credibility <KillerPoodle> I can say anything I like and it is impossible to prove or disprove |
Posted By: Deranzin
Date Posted: 01 Jan 2013 at 00:50
Rill answered you on one regard and as far as I am concerned ANYONE can create a random nickname and then stick a real player's nickname in his signature and pretend that he is that player. There is a good reason why most people are encouraged to use their in-game nicknames in such forums and such common sense has nothing to do with anyone's intelligence. Happy new year ! :)
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Posted By: Rorgash
Date Posted: 01 Jan 2013 at 01:10
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ask Luna to change your name and she will -------------
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Posted By: abstractdream
Date Posted: 01 Jan 2013 at 02:40
Sorry, I wasn't smart enough to figure that out in my newb days, but now I'm glad I didn't use my in-game name. It sorta ties both accounts together. Anyone who knows me in-game knows this is me, so I'm happy with it. I dunno if that would work for everyone though. I am a weirdo. ------------- |
Posted By: Darmon
Date Posted: 01 Jan 2013 at 03:38
| What's to stop someone from using another's in-game name as their forum account, since the forums and game credentials aren't tied together? As long as they don't break the "impersonating fellow players or Illyriad staff" rule by going around trying to mislead people into believing they're that person in-game, I mean. |
Posted By: Deranzin
Date Posted: 01 Jan 2013 at 15:00
Nothing, apart from the problem that something like that would be very obvious ... someone is bound to make a joke in AC/GC about something you wrote and the ruse will be up when you say something along the lines "huh ? what forums ???" ... Some of you might find this outlandish or over the top or just plain weird to be so suspicious, but as forums go, I 've been in some top level hellpots where the same person would argue with himself (sometimes even attack his clones with his other nicknames :p ) using many fake accounts only to further his petty goals or throw mud at other people, so I am not really amazed by any mischief of the sort.
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Posted By: Timrath
Date Posted: 01 Jan 2013 at 16:06
Why? What would the winning party have to gain from a white peace? I know next to nothing about the ongoing war, but if it is anything like all the other wars in real life and gaming history, then it must have started for a reason. Did this reason mysteriously dissapear during the fighting? As long as that reason remains unresolved, the war must go on. The only thing equally pointless to blind violence is blind peace. |
Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 01 Jan 2013 at 16:31
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"it must have started for a reason" you know what they say about what happens when you assume ... It is at least possible that the war was started simply because one or both parties wanted to have a war. Some people claim to enjoy it.
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Posted By: Timrath
Date Posted: 01 Jan 2013 at 16:48
But that's a reason, too! Not a particularly brilliant one, but nonetheless valid. I don't see how this would affect my argument, if it were the actual reason. So, as long as one party's thirst for war hasn't been quenched, the war must go on. |
Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 01 Jan 2013 at 19:24
| That is a reason that can mysteriously disappear during the fighting though -- one can want to have a war and then stop wanting to have a war. (Usually because one finds out that war is rather tedious.) |
Posted By: Timrath
Date Posted: 01 Jan 2013 at 19:52
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True. And more interestingly: it's a reason that usually appears at one party precisely when the other party stops having it. |
Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 01 Jan 2013 at 19:54
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actually its really fun, i am seeing more people active in alliance and more team activity. i encourage everyone to join in. but that is me, maybe some find war tedious. because of the fun reason i dont see peace coming soon. surrender would end the war. maybe that is the honorable way of ending it. many possible actions are being restrained hoping one group surrenders shortly. |
Posted By: Llyorn Of Jaensch
Date Posted: 01 Jan 2013 at 21:46
Erm, the guys who lost WW1..... also lost the second. So Im not reaaally sure your point has a, erm, point? ------------- "ouch...best of luck." HonoredMule |
Posted By: Beecks
Date Posted: 01 Jan 2013 at 21:58
If Consone isn't given an easy peace then the coalition will just have to beat them again next year! Yeah the metaphor really breaks down unless you find the virtual suffering of millions of Trueshots to be inhumane. Will the bows of elgea ever stop going PEW-PEW-PEW? |
Posted By: Thes Hunter
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2013 at 00:28
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I used to be an adventurer like you, until I took an arrow to the knee. Watch where you are shooting there Beecks. ------------- The image in my avatar is a chalk pastel drawing I did as part of the Imagine Yellowstone Art competition. 
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Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2013 at 01:05
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You mean you received a flesh wound and then decided to shoot yourself in the foot.
------------- "This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM "a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill |
Posted By: Arian
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2013 at 01:24
Erm, the guys who lost WW1..... also lost the second. So Im not reaaally sure your point has a, erm, point? [/QUOTE] I don't think you finished reading my original post. Britain and the Allies may have won WW2 but my point was that in the end no-one came out a winner. Britain spent years paying back lend lease to the US and suffered from all sorts of problems after the war including returning soldiers with no work for them and major recessions. Yes they may have won on paper but i don't think in the long run it was without repurcussions - so as an analogy it doesn't break down. my point was entirely valid. Humiliated people (or alliances) will eventually feel so oppressed and vengeful that it will all start up again. And my post was simply a plea to the Coalition to not go down that route as i think it would be a shame if Ily just turned into yet another constant war type browser game. I'm not averse to war per se btw but Illy seemed different to other browser games when I joined it and now it seems to be just another version of the E game or Travian - which i find quite sad. ------------- 'Do you want ice with that?' |
Posted By: Machete
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2013 at 04:26
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I guess I don't understand all of the comparison to real life history. This is a game. Real life could be viewed as game but it affects real lives. In Illy, its all electronic bits and bytes that are affected. Plus in real life I have never seen an Orc, Dwarf or Elf. I know that actions taken in the game are sometimes the result of personal attacks, which is a shame, but it happens. I like this game and hope to keep learning all of the different aspects. I wish all of you and yours the best in 2013.
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Posted By: Ossian
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2013 at 10:08
Regrettably , I think that there is an element of truth in this, but it doesn' have to be that way.
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Posted By: Rorgash
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2013 at 11:27
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I dont see any truth in that... as you gain nothing but political and/or territorial power from fighting in Illyriad. we gain no towns mostly, we gain no real loot. and the cost of fighting and time spent is on a completely different level. Also a huge difference which is why im playing Illyriad is this is a permanent world. But if you dont like what is happening as some of us do then go play some fb farm game instead and have fun, OR join the war and fight to create peace!
-------------
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Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2013 at 12:48
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this war game involves so much more strategy than other browser games. the devs have done a great job to ensure that it isnt a slugfest game. if u play this game in a balance way the player will notice that all aspects of the game lead towards conflict. war functions have been neglected in former game play, if the community would start opening their minds and realize we are making nothing but war materials and embrace this as a strategy game which involves war maybe the game would have more active playing and be more fun. the war functions in this game are the best amongst free browser games, lets use them and use peace as a strategy and not a status quo way of playing.....surrender and your part of the war is over......peace as strategy |
Posted By: abstractdream
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2013 at 14:42
Not true. One of the most obvious things separating this game from the others is the community. While there are many of us who enjoy tossing spears at each other, even we warmongers draw the line at newb bashing. Admittedly, there are a few trollish types who cross that line but if they don't back off they aren't long for the fertile plains of Elgea. Without the community, Illy would have been Travian a long time ago. ------------- |
Posted By: Deranzin
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2013 at 15:11
^^ This ! Reading this forum one could gather the notion that suddenly everyone went berserk and fights with one another for no reason. The community is as good as it has always been and war is good for TRADERS (judging by the market prices of many stuff, traders overall must be hauling in a billion gold daily or more ) and all the game economy is based in the existence of troops and better war equipment and since noone attacks peaceful trader or peaceful alliances I really do not see why and how people claim that this game somehow changed into Travian or whatever. |
Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2013 at 17:32
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About an year back, when we were discussing in AC about making siege support armies, Grego told me "we wont be making sieges, we will only be breaking them". That was a philosophy Absa followed, though this war has forced us to make exceptions. Illy is a sandbox game and it will be what we make out of it. If more players like it to be a war game, it will gradually become one of that kind. I have played Travian and I liked it, but in a sandbox with so many real life elements, my idea of courage is choosing pacifism. These days are not happy as the days when I spent most of my Illy time on Trade. These are trying days; but not 'bad' days. If not for this war, I would not have had the pleasure of seeing support from so many good folks. I would not have had the pleasure of reading Tatharion's speech on 1.PFK.  I would not have had the pleasure of thieving Kumomoto  I would not have had the pleasure of working with Sloter and Geofrey and Boru and Mahaut and several other good friends. If the game is only about building the troops and material for war and then using them (as KP said) and the only asset you can have are your cities, then the game will not be a 'sandbox', it will be a game like chess. It is the presence of choices that makes the game a sandbox. You cannot choose pacifism or violence in chess. I'd rather let my cities destroyed and start over again than pay blood money to anyone. I'd choose pacifism (when it is up to me), but not be condemned to it. Even starting over is not a bad thing, just a different phase. Though I hope that phase doesn't come. |
Posted By: Drejan
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2013 at 17:42
| Absa and VIC were traders? Ohoo yes... |
Posted By: belargyle
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2013 at 18:16
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Oh Good Grief people... please stop whining that this game is turning into Travian or something similar. They are not even comparable. This is the second large scale war in over 2 years, 2 YEARS people! If you wish to count the MM War (which most all of Illy rose up in and removed an alliance) and the Valar war as 1, it could count as 3 wars total.. and 2 combined didn't last long anyway. Other than that we have lived mostly in a peaceful state. There is SOOOO much more to this game than just military OR trade. I like to think of the game more in line with the books or movies (take your pick) - The Game of Thrones. The diplomacy of alliances and gathering of intel make this game amazing. I find it funny those who claim to want peace and make the claim to be pacifists, have armies and are fighting or have fought themselves in other wars. With regard to peace, it goes without saying that at times you cannot have peace without war but for those not directly involved, just because you are not specifically at war does not mean others should not nor do they need to be. No one here is ALL about wars nor can they be. You can't sustain towns much less an alliance that is constantly involved in only that aspect. However, if you wish to ignore the fact this is a game 'geared' toward, at the least, battles and at worst wars (which was created to have that aspect available), then you ignorantly ignore a facet of the game that can either cripple you or destroy you and potentially your alliance. This is why there are negotiations, if those fail, battles.. rarely has this server seen large scale wars. It is absurd to think you can start a war of this magnitude and then once it appears a failure ask to just mutually stop and say - both are winners in this war. Seriously? Initially we had 9 alliances of Consone declare war against H?. They thought it would only be H and maybe a few others and with their numbers they could still handle it... and then when H friends arrive to back them up (The Coalition), it becomes an "Oh Crap" situation. The truth is this is a war of shear Pride on both sides! No one will relent unless their side is victorious or equally victorious - this is a fact. Each side HAS to win to some degree! Thus the silly notion of - we declared war and now that things are going poorly (at present) we wish to stop and everyone pretend it never happened so we can save face, isn't going to cut it. If you wish out, simple surrender and negotiate conditions. If you REALLY want peace then prove it, surrender. Surrender is not an ugly word, it just means you are doing what is necessary to cease a war you no longer wish to be a part of, for you and/or your alliance |
Posted By: Sloter
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2013 at 19:11
| It was all part of our plan to lose up to 40% Consone troops in tourney and then secretly ask RHY to start 5-6 sieges on our confeds, but somehwere along the way it all went wrong.I guess biggest mistake we made was when we declared war on H?....oh wait, now i remember, we only targeted siege camps set on our confeds when war was declared on us.But do repeat that story few more times belarg and over time it will become truth. |
Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2013 at 19:12
Such Lies Belargyle. How many more lies before you feel any shame? Check out H diplomacy page if you actually forgot what happened. Relationship/ With/ Declared By/ Began War Affirmative Action [A.A.] Harmless? [H?] 22 Nov 2012 19:24 War Order of the Valar [VALAR] Harmless? [H?] 05 Nov 2012 03:02 War Harmless? [H?] Sages of Illyriad [Sages]15 Oct 2012 22:00 War Harmless? [H?] Skeleton Boar [SkB] 14 Oct 2012 16:28 War Harmless? [H?] Victrix [VICX] 14 Oct 2012 16:10 War Harmless? [H?] Worlds End [WE] 14 Oct 2012 05:31 War Harmless? [H?] Dwarven Druids [Druid] 13 Oct 2012 22:55 War Harmless? [H?] Lords of Frost [Frost] 13 Oct 2012 22:52 War Harmless? [H?] EAGLES EYRIE [EE] 13 Oct 2012 22:49 War /Absaroke [Absa]/ Harmless? [H?]/ 13 Oct 2012 03:21 War /Invictus [VIC]/ Harmless? [H?]/ 13 Oct 2012 02:49
If you look at the war declaration dates, you can see that it is the other way around. H thought it would only be Invictus and Absa. Having secret alliances forged with ~Night and Dark confederations, H thought they could finish the war in no time like in the case of Valar war. When consone stayed together and fought back, it becomes a war which may last until kingdom comes.
When H declared war on Absa, I was expecting to have us destroyed before Christmas. Based on those expectations, things are not going poorly, things are going great. Why, we may as well be fighting through many more Christmases :D
That kind of peace? No thanks! H declared war on us. At any time they can stop it by offering peace. We do not know what your war goals were, we did not have any choice either. I do agree with you that the game is nothing like Travian, or it will ever be. Illy is a sandbox, it is what we makes it to be. |
Posted By: belargyle
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2013 at 19:59
Your right.. there 6 that initially declared, the next day 3 others declared. However, did I state H? didn't declare war on VIC or Absa? No? Hmm.. odd isn't it. H declared war on VIC when they jumped into a battle with RHY who were also H allies. VIC attacked another alliance, in an issue which had NOTHING do with Consone matters. SkB was not a part of Consone at that time and Absa was defending them (I have always stated no harm in that but understand when you swing a punch, expect one in return). Then once RHY attacked back, VIC jumped in, when the truth is, SkB and Absa could have destroyed those seiges easily as both had a large amount Cavs for the job (seen during the early stages of the war), and the sieges were on the plains (easy pickings). But when VIC jumped into a non-consone matter (and nearly twice if not three times the size of RHY) H jumped in to balance the situation that was against their ally. Yes, what is interesting to note is that SkB suddenly became a member of Consone within hours and they to declared war against H? along with the others. This begs the question - How did SkB get into the mix so quickly when H had nothing to do with them nor did they attack them, but the external groups who came into the fray against RHY while they were in negotiations with SkB. Which 'can' beg the next question.. was it a set up against H? to pull them into the fight with VIC, so Consone can declare against them? Consone was not involved in the matter but it appears they seemed ready for this since in less than a couple hours all had declared war on H?.. who was ONLY at war with VIC and ABSA for trying to bully RHY into backing down from ABSA who attacked RHY FIRST!!
Seriously, get your facts straight... and yes, I agree - look at the timings of war declarations. H?
allies didn't come into the mix till AFTER Consone declared war on H,
thus it wasn't some sinister plot to destroy Consone but a reaction to
Consone's poor actions for.. peace? No, war. No diplomacy was made nor
offered.. only immediate war. Shortly into the whole issue it was
offered in these very forums, to Consone, to cease fighting and we would
too.. Consone would not. As for how long the war lasts.. wars take time
but it will eventually end, as more and more people loose the ability
to produce larger armies and others loose cities. It happens but it
doesn't have to. Secondly, what's wrong with secret alliances? H's secret alliance never have done anything to anyone (as a group effort) nor used their strengths against anyone till Consone tried to flex it's limited might.
How can that many alliances at war (on both sides) do what you imagined? It is impossible. Your understanding of how quickly such numbers can destroy things in this game is fairly exaggerated :) I hope you have a more clear understanding now.
That kind of peace? No thanks!  [/quote]And that is my point.. You don't really want peace.
Peace has been offered but you don't want it. So it isn't as if H is forcing you to fight.. you WANT to fight because you want peace like you want war - when you want it, how you want it, and according to your terms (we all do) but it doesn't happen that way. If you want peace it is simple and it is offered to you --- surrender and negotiate peace terms and compensation. |
Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2013 at 20:29
No you omitted that part. And what does it mean when Belargyle says "initially"? "Somewhere in between"?
Oops! If all that meant something between Absa and RHY, know that Absa and RHY had arrived at a truce before H declared war on us. Neither Vic nor Absa had any hostile missions against RHY cities, we only destroyed camps on our doorsteps. As I said before, I do not know why you declared war on us. I do not know why ~Night and Dark* confederations are attacking us. Why, Trivium, the old TLR in new bottle, has also joined the fight against us! I see they are your new allies with NAP ** News flash: TRIVIUM [TVM] declares war on Order of the Valar [VALAR] Hostilities may begin immediately... |
Posted By: vty
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2013 at 00:08
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I love you Ander |
Posted By: belargyle
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2013 at 03:28
Hmm... Interesting. You reached a peace accord about the 20th of Oct (validated by other signatories who signed).. H? declared war on VIC and ABSA on Oct 13th.
Additionally, attacking sieging armies IS an attack on another, whether it is directly against their cities or not. If VIC were sieging PEACE, and Dlord jumped in and broke their sieges. VIC would not shrug and leave it alone, nor would ABSA or any other alliance. And it was mostly VIC who broke the sieges... on your doorsteps. Again, I'm not against nor opposed to allies helping one another, but yet again, if you swing a punch, expect one in return.. and not always from the same person (ie.. VIC for ABSA, H for RHY)
And as "I" have said previously in the forums here and in private messages with others who asked me... Dlords declared war, not on you singly but on Consone as whole due to the fact you declared war upon our Ally and Friends - H. |
Topic: Rhyagelle, Absaroke and Skeleton Boar Peace AgreementPosted By: Alti (SkB)
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2013 at 19:09
SkB made confeds with Consone alliances following a request from Absa. We have never joined Consone. One of Buridan's cities had been attacked by an H? player before our declaration of war, which just goes to show that you can't infer the order of aggression from looking at the diplomacy page. |
Posted By: Anjire
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2013 at 19:48
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Buridan was added to our target list on October 11th Subject: FW: Victorious defense by Joscelin's forces at Square -501|-83 under attack by Buridan's forces from Altamont Received: 11 Oct 2012 17:19 ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/26125" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: Sloter
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2013 at 21:44
| you added him on target list 2 days before you declared war???how did you know at that time how things will develop?Joscelin was even in RHY at that time, so when his troops protecting RHY siege camp were attacked he sent battle report to H? for some reason? |
Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2013 at 22:43
It is called "Planning." I think Consone calls it "magic."
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Posted By: Anjire
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2013 at 23:24
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Also, at the personal request of RHY Leadership after their forces had come under attack from Druid and Invictus. Actual time of my forum post adding Buridan to our target list: October 12, 2012, 11:22:59 PM ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/26125" rel="nofollow"> |
Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2013 at 01:41
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I truly don't think that there was a grand conspiracy by either side to create a war. I merely think that Consone didn't think. They just handed out their Soup badges to all comers. And while some were respectful about not invoking the Mothership in their dealings, many used it as an excuse to bully. H? (and many, many others in Illy) are not going to sit around and watch a mega coalition continue to metastasize in the game we so deeply love. I've seen many Consone members mention that they think H? is scared of the "New World Order" or some such. You know what? Personally, I think they couldn't be more right. I AM really scared about the game I love becoming one where a mega coalition exists in which membership confers a "get out of jail free card" for bullying behavior. And I am not alone. There are many, many others (both within and outside of this war) who feel the same way. They saw numerous occasions of this behavior and don't like it. If this makes us "Old School", then I'm proud to be one of the Old Guard. We don't bully and do not tolerate bullies. The same can't be said of the "New Order". |
Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2013 at 01:44
| Well said, Kumo. |
Posted By: Thes Hunter
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2013 at 04:01
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Very well said Mr. Kumo. You articulated my thoughts exactly, except with the sides reversed of course. ------------- The image in my avatar is a chalk pastel drawing I did as part of the Imagine Yellowstone Art competition.
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Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2013 at 04:24
If there were occasions where consone alliances acted unjustly, why did you not start a war on any such occasion? Why did you have to bully SkB for a month, provoking a response from Absa and starta war where you do not have any moral ground? The_Dude, not everyone calls it magic, though admittedly there were few. A few players had moved to Rhy from H to start the war. To some of us, it was clear from that time itself that all this was being orchestrated by H. But it was very difficult to convince the truth to others. Even many in the leadership positions thought it was something about trove mine and Rhy - they did not think H were bullies or the type of people who use lies and deception to achieve their ends. |
Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2013 at 04:31
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The community allies with stronger side in every issue. If a small party does some injustice, they will pounce on him and lynch him. If a strong party does injustice, the community will say this is a war game. H declared war on Absa first, right? I'd love to see it if you can tell a single incident where Absa bullied anyone or dealt unfairly.
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Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2013 at 05:02
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Well tried, Ander... If anyone believes that H? had the initial bullying actions of this conflict, then they are ignoring history. I know current PR modus operandi is to just spout "that is a lie" enough times and things become so confused that the general public can't tell the difference, but here it is clear. Consone took actions, H? reacted to those actions. Period. So let's not try to be like a US Presidential campaign, please? Shouting "you are liars" enough times will not save you. The Illy community (unlike the US electorate) know what happened, so all you are doing is degrading your own credibility... and Thes... stop trying to be trite. If we bullied and you decided to step up to us (which is the reverse of what I said), then you have an alternate universe that you are going to have to convince everyone we live in. You are diluting Ander's mildly eloquent arguments... |
Posted By: Ossian
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2013 at 10:32
What nonsense! I am begiining to think that you must believe your own second rate and obviously distorted propaganda.
So you are feeling "scary about the game you love" are you? So much so that you can smear, and degrade what was a progressive confederation of alliances and then manufacture false reasons to attack them. Now you are trying to paint them as some sort of bullying conglomerate which couldn't be further from the truth.
The truth is Kumomoto that it is you that has "scared" people . People are leaving the game because of the situation brought about by this stupid irresposnsible war for which you have to bear the responsibility. Not Absa, nor Valar and not Consone but YOU!!! There are an increasing number of players who have received "bullying", "arrogant" and downright intimidating mails from you personally Kumomoto. It is you who are "scary".
This War was not brought about by any fear or love the game on your part. It is clear from KP's posts from the outset that H? was worried about its own status and engineered the war to be able to attack Consone. . H? did not give a "fig" for the game. H? only cares about H?
You and the tail coat graspers that follow you around the forum make me sick!
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Posted By: Grego
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2013 at 10:44
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One and only "agression" by Absaroke was announced occupation of SkB mine, one which RHY member harrassed for long period of time ( and promised to SkB he will leave). That is your "Old school", Kumo: Burn those who don't submit to you. It is possible to reveal what happened in every single detail, we don't need to shout. |
Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2013 at 12:28
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the only thing i will say is thank you to all involved in this war. it has made this game extremely fun and is finally bringing in more players i can relate to. people dont need a reason to war but for some reason people seem think there should be one. as a strategy player it is hard to achieve goals when there is no conflict in a war strategy game. maybe it is time to accept the game for what it is and not try to make it something it isnt. other words....play the game. ask yourself why there are limited v2 resources and why we make troops and craft war items. ask yourself why there are alliances, confederations, and naps. ask why we build castles, why there is going to be factions, what our dips do. people have to realize this is a game and we should be playing it to have fun. but then again reasoning could be completely wrong....wink wink |
Posted By: Deranzin
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2013 at 14:40
Yes, with the H? mind controlling machine (patent pending) EVERYTHING is possible : Some questions for your delusions: - Why an alliance (SkB) will call for help to clear out 6000 troops which they were perfectly able to handle on their own .?. (if not for the obvious reason to bully their opponent ?) - Why would TWO alliances call for help to win over only one alliance , which they were proven later to have the firepower to easily handle on their own .?. (if not for the obvious reason for further intimidation ?)
- Why would H? and the rest of the people want to turn this place into Travian (or whatever) when they are the very same people that toiled for years to establish it as a newbie friendly game within a mostly peaceful server .?. If there are reasonable answers to those questions, I'd be delighted to read them and discuss them. Other than that I see that you are as bent on seeing this war through as the people you accuse to be warlike and placing the blame on us for "making you like that" and blaming your actions to some sinister secret plan of other is not a really mature thing to think or say. More like a kid saying to the teachers "I didn't want to throw that chalk on your head, Tim made me do it !" For once try to make sense and give a rational explanation to your actions ...
Which is quite funny since they didn't really need VIC's help to accomplish that, but called them in anyway ... :p
Progressive .?. ahahahahah ... spare us the political theory jargon please since apparently ...
... you seem to consider childly abdicating from ANY responsibility for your actions, as progress. |
Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2013 at 16:12
I can feel the love emanating out through your tinfoil hat! I want some of whatever cool aid Ossian is drinking! But I'd best retreat to my secret underground lair so I can creepily stroke my cat while contemplating what further evil to plot... |
Posted By: asr
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2013 at 16:52
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I would like to state my opinion. Game=Real life IF you remove the environment! But you don't need to do it, it only gives better viewpoint. To make it more clear then the illyriad(environment) is a medium(communication portal) between people. What you consider being real? is the reality only there where your body is or your mind? |
Posted By: belargyle
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2013 at 17:01
This coming from you.. LOL
Nope - you're wrong there and there are many who can vouch for the FACT that 'some' (not all in Consone, as Kumo stated) did try using Consone to bully others into doing what they wanted. Dlord is in that group though I could careless if you believe me or not. Dlord have had good interactions with many of Consone members (such as EE, who were diplomatic and good negotiators).
Wrong. Many are leaving the game due to their alliances staying in a war they don't want, others are leaving because there isn't much more they can do now but wait (however long that is) till the next large update to add some new aspects to the game. However what you need to wrap your head around is that Consone is the one who holds the responsibility for the war currently in progress, and no amount white-washing will change that. The war would have simply been against H and Absa and VIC... Consone COULD have sought peace through negotiations FIRST.. did they? No. They declared war instead. The Coalition in the early part of the war told Consone that if they would stop fighting, we would stop fighting.. Consone said no. No matter how you wish to slice this apple, it falls squarely upon Consones shoulders for the war being in existence. We can still end the war by Consone simply surrendering. They made the war as big as it is, to expand the length of the map. They even went so far as to try to recruit other alliances to join them in their war. Yes, that sounds like someone who is looking to be peaceful and not wanting war. So please keep swallowing the same ol' tripe 'Soup', but please don't offer it others who know what is in it.
Bullying .. LOL. You are in a war, forcing the other side to back down is one aspect in a war. It can be done in various ways but that IS a part of what they signed up for. Now that they are in an actual war, they don't like what comes with it?
Well then, go get some medicine and come back to the game when you feel better. We will be here waiting. |
Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2013 at 17:27
I attribute the sudden change to an aggressive posture by Absa to the creation of Consone. Consone emboldened Absa to become another bully alliance. Consone expressed no interest in reining in Absa's aggression. Just as Consone expressed no interest in reining in WE's aggression. Consone was created to establish a military power block immune to the interests of non-Consone players/alliances. Consone clearly demonstrated it intended to attack at will with the belief that their size and geographic distribution made them unstoppable [Please see the thread announcing Consone and the related Maps and pop counts they published for the purpose of awing Illy with their power.]
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Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2013 at 17:33
Any individual player in Consone that does not want to be treated like a bully should leave Consone. Apparently, Alfas wanted to continue being a bully but like all bullies, he could not stand getting hit back. To all bullies that leave Illy, I say: "Good Riddance and Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya."
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Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2013 at 17:37
wow! whom in Absa did you contact when your armies were attacked? i am surprised I never heard of the incident.
you contacted consone as well for absa's aggression against you? yet i didnt come to know of it. how strange! whom in consone did you contact to rein in absa's aggression? |
Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2013 at 17:45
That is just another illustration how Consone never had any intention of behaving peacefully. Always with the run-around and denial of responsibility. |