so can everyone stop faffing around and just declare.

I'm a senior player myself (means 2 years of playing...) and I don't recall any previous incidents WE leadership had with all those alliance, which now suddenly turn against them (with exception of RES, of course...).

So I would be grateful for any info, which goes above "I don't like them...".  

 

we so few stand against so many.

@ Drejan:

Further, I still haven't found any reasons in this thread about why WE is singled out of Consone? 

The only answer to that came from Twylights aka. Gameplayer, and him/her comlaining about being aggressive/personal in GC/forums is the funniest thing I read in here for a long time!

What I still wonder, is, why peace with RES actually was part of the peace with H? ?  The Dude stated on several occasions, that both disputes are separate things... 

scaramouche wrote: a few that tried to destroy us have found that they cant ....it was to just tell the others that are gonns declare to just get on with it.

If you don't call names this is just a whine.

Who "tried and found they can't?

Who is going to declar war?

And anyway what are the "few"?  Consone?

I'm glad I'm not the only who has been stalked by WET members as a means of diplomacy.  They never let up even when whatever got them all ruffled is long over.

Orcs in cheerleader costumes...

[/thought]

Seriously, I offered WE an opportunity to make nice with RES in August.  The Duke was WE's rep on that.  Those efforts failed then.  I reopened those talks with Jasche in October.  Again, utter failure greeted with both a Consone "request" that RES join them against H? and when refused met with a WE siege of a RES city.  It was simply a matter of WE relinquishing about 6 Sovs within 2 sqs of RES cities.  And an agreement to not do that again.  Rejected with a Siege!

WE has demonstrated that it has NO interest at all in being a peaceful neighbor to RES.  Consone  (inclusive of VICX and VALAR) has demonstrated that Consone 100% supports WE in that mission.

Consone neither did nor does support sieges on RES. The few defenses against sieges on WE have to be seen in the light of the conflict against H?, and not as bad will against RES itself.

The offer of joining and the siege were not linked. The first was a simple diplomatic question, the second the act of one single player at one of the wrongest possible times.

Me as a Consone player would be more than happy to see this "sov dispute" resolved.

Consone (inclusive of VICX and VALAR) has chosen to protect WE from RES's justified self-defense.

Consone owns WE.

As I mentioned to Kumo in GC yesterday, there's a few more than that on Coal's team, pop. wise Coal is about 5mill ahead of us Soup folk. I am not going to debate it, I have seen the battle reports and who is assisting Coal. I don't expect H, as they seem to be the leader/spokesperson of Coal, to agree with me or anyone in Soup on this as we are on opposite sides and that would not be good for the Coal brand. Coal is performing far better and this I expected because there was always a hidden agenda and 1 side was prepared and the other wasn't, I don't begrudge H or Coal one bit for this as you should at all times protect your interests. This thread has already turned into another pointless off-topic argument, can we get back to Scar's point and put up your declarations and get on with the demolition. Good gaming to you all

Indeed ... and to keep to the topic, I have to say that I will never stop being "amazed" by the tendency of human beings in every strata of life to convert within their minds their beliefs to self-proven and self-evident facts and then wonder why other people need logical arguments to converse with them and complain that noone understands them.

How much easier it would have been for the OP to declare that you, you and you stop beating around the bushes and come out openly and state your intentions. That would have been useful and it would have contained enough facts to actually hold some water for future reference and generate a good discussion.

Now all we have is a topic much like an oracle's vague mumblings, predicting obscure calamities and woes that should they actually come to pass he will claim to have predicted them and, if not, then he will claim to have scared them away. Predictably, noone can actually discuss rationally such a topic so everything degenerates into the usual war squable where some people get to play the "helpless victim" act (again with vague and totally fact-free posts) to the delight of the onlookers ...

Oooooooooold trick ... old as the mountains ...  

Mr Damage wrote: LOJ you are better than that, you know full well who is supporting Coal, if you aren't prepared to make it public, so be it,

It is YOUR claim, so YOU have to prove it and "go public" with it else it is just slander ... 

I'll be happy to acknowledge that IF you became more specific and actually proved your claim. 

A battle report would have been nice as a solid proof, but I'd like to hear who are all those mysterious alliances that are against you. 

If what you say is NOT slander, then what are you afraid of since you will be speaking what you think is true .?. 

I say that this consistent vagueness about these things speaks volumes on how valid/true your claims are ... 

It is not just 4 alliances fighting Consone, you are happy to treat us a one group when making negative comment about Consone so be consistent when viewing our argument against them.

Consone is an official organisation with known members and therefore can be analysed and one can offer his opinion about it. 

Your "ghost alliances" participating are just that : ghosts which only you know who they are so how could anyone else offer any opinion on the matter.

WE are part of Consone, more than 4 alliances have declared on WE, more than 4 alliances are fighting Consone in this war, if you can't admit that then fine, slander it is. Declare yourselves.

I think that many Consone members have pointed out that their alliances and Consone are not one and the same ... 

Also those alliances are fighting only against WE, as far as I know, else why hasn't Consone declared war against them as a WHOLE like you claim here .?. 

Please decide whether you are ONE or not instead of arbitrarily using either case depending one what is in your best of interest at any given moment ... 

You want me to give the answers to YOUR allegations you are unwilling to back up, plus as a bonus you also want me to deal with your double standards on what Consone is everytime things get tough .?. 

Do you want french fries with that too .?. 

Either Consone acts as ONE and declares war to all those ghost alliances you have in mind OR the wars against WE are just that ... wars against WE only ... you can't have both ... 

And sorry, I am sending no IGMs either ... you came here and made a PUBLIC announcement, so you should defend it publicly, as well.  (edit : and this applies to the OP, as well)

We are awaiting for your facts.   (edit : this one too)

Deranzin wrote: I think that many Consone members have pointed out that their alliances and Consone are not one and the same ...

Wait... So if your alliance is in Consone, you are NOT a member of Consone???

Deranzin wrote: Please decide whether you are ONE or not instead of arbitrarily using either case depending one what is in your best of interest at any given moment ...

Deranzin a member of H, not consone. I do not read Derazin's posts, so I don't really know what he wrote. If whatever he wrote made consone look bad, I have to admit he did a good job. 

I thought we had settled on the "War of 2 troves"

I think the personal bias may be creeping in here.  Which is fine, wars can have multiple names, but I'd like a neutral-ish one.

belargyle wrote: Personally I like "The War of the coalitions" or even better - "The Great War" due to all the alliances involved.

Those work, as long as there aren't going to be any more wars that are large or involve coalitions.  On the other hand, I thought I read somewhere that H? planned to kill the game, so maybe they would work.

1) Consone are not more than the Coalition, they are less becouse there are ghosts that we can't name not to summon them, or maybe this is a summoning not sure.

3) H? planned to kill the game

All right.... good to know...

the only notice any of our alliance got of this was himself saying in AC that a RES player had settled/exodused too close to him and he wasnt happy, but by then he had already sent the siege to which shortly after RES destroyed it.

very shortly after this he himself was discharged from our alliance for his actions.

no matter what way you try to spin it..he was dealt with in the only appropriate way that we could of done so.

you talk of respecting other players space and big it up as if thats an important factor in land ownage, and you know what..i totally agree, so shall I mention about an incident a good few months back where  a certain RES player settled/exodused between two WE players, 8 squares from both cities and then claims sovereign on two high level dolmens, 2 squares from each of those cities?

where was the respect shown there?

Tit for tat petty squabbling has always been between us and RES, god knows why because the dislike between these two alliances was evident before i even joined. I guess only the two leaders will know the true reasons, but they certainly aint saying why.

you only hear one sided tit bits from TD cos of your dislike for RMY...but there are always two sides to a story.

 

Ratboy settled The Outpost on May 2, 2011.

Gruntfuttock setteld 2. The Black Hole on June 6, 2011.

Raylva settled Ye Old City on July 28, 2011.

As late as October, 2011, WE held itself out as a Regional Alliance in Western Perrigor and Northwestern Arran.  Those named cities above are in Tor Carrock.

As to "respect", neither WE player had claimed the 2 Sovs of which you complain and had shown no interest in Sov until Ratboy made his claims.  Unfortunately, RMY decided that she could bully RES and instead of working out a friendly transfer of the Sovs and developing a process for WE and RES to peacefully resolve disputes, she launched armies at Ratboy's armies in the field.  RMY refused to ever correct that mistake.  Eventually, WE acquired the 2 Sovs under the premise of 2 sq exclusive Sov which RES has respected since.  However, WE has refused to extend RES that same "respect."

I will address your other factual errors separately.

My post?  I think you're misunderstanding me.  

1)  I'm not commenting on the restless dead here.  If you count the numbers, the Coal side has nearly 5 million more population than the Soup side.  There is, empirically, more Coal than Soup.  This is alliances that have declared war on one side or the other.

2)  Dunno where you got this.  All I said was it wasn't helpful for the rest of us if they proceed to fight more of them.  

3)  You don't have to think that was a good joke, but surely you realize it was in fact a joke?  I was pretty sure it was blatantly obvious.  

Note re: Skorn: Skorn is an account that Jezma inherited from the original account holder in June 2010.  I late summer 2012, Jezma passed Skorn to a newbie Mufridaz.  On October 15, 2012 Murfridaz was WET not WE.

WE did not kick Skorn until October 20, 2012 - 5 days after the siege and 4 days AFTER RES had withdrawn from peace discussions and war was imminent.  The only reason WE kicked Skorn at this late date was in a failed attempt to avert war.  WET retained Mufridaz as a member until October 24, 2012 - kicking him 4 hours AFTER RES declared war on WE.

Additionally, WE attempted to pass the lie that Skorn recalled the siege voluntarily.

On November 1, 2012 VALAR invited Skorn to join them.  On November 3, 2012 VALAR and WE Confed. On November 5, 2012 VALAR entered the war.

Skorn remains a member of Consone and is under Consone's protection.  Arguing that the "kick" was appropriate and sufficient satisfaction to RES is absurd.

On November 26, 2011 WE attacked 2 RES cities.

13,850 Marshalls sent to Ursusprimal's only city at the time it was just 249 pop.

about 4K trueshots against my city, King Ranch.

True to a point.  If you subtract those alliances only at war with WE, but assume that their attacks on WE preclude it's participation against any other enemies, Consone comes out ~2 million ahead.  

If you can honestly say this is all correct then yeah LOJ's statement is correct, surprisingly I dont think you can honestly say that. WE's diplomacy page says it all, there is more than 4 alliances fighting Soup alliances, there is part of your desired proof, but first let us see you answer the above honestly.

I have no gripe with your methods Coal, and you are doing the better job, all credit to you but at least concede the fact that it is the work of more than 4 alliances that is helping you achieve what you have. I'll now go and check the diplo stats for 2 more declarations.

I have no knowledge of others and can not speak for them.

RES is retaliating in-kind.

He didn't say anything about the nazi's, you did. 

I have been less than impressed with some of the behaviour/rhetoric on these forums and in game during the war and specifically to this point - I do not take kindly to being compared to Ribbentrop in whatever analogy you wish to use. 

It is not acceptable, nor pleasant for the receiver, to have an analogy used which compares them to a war criminal who was hanged for crimes which involved the extermination of Jews and prisoners of war.

In short, if you are looking for real life comparators - find a better analogy!

but like i said earlier, he told me it was to late to recall, and please dont be so naive TD, ofc we wanted to avoid any conflict, why would we want to antagonise anyone else after so shortly after becoming involved in the bigger war?

As for him still being in consone has nothing to do with us, no matter how many times we have said that you still keep bringing that up.

we kicked skorn..nuff said on the matter

the ratboy sov issue, as far as im aware when he took those points you was mailed about it and the response i heard we got was a negative and aloof reply.therefore forcing our hand.

you maybe right with the dates of settling but they settled 8 squares from RB which even by your standards is a fair distance considering some of your players have done likewise, but taking the dolmens was a little too far...

And if your also saying cos RB was in south tor before ray and grunt so therefore you have all rights to that area, can i remind you I was there along time before him.

 

This is beyond odious. Run-of-the-mill quibbling or squawking is one thing, and that's not what I see here. As Jasche rightly states, this is a reference to a convicted war criminal who was hanged for his crimes. It can only be guessed that you had some point here related to the personal characteristics or history of Ribbentrop. If you find your observation funny or insightful, please feel free to share it with those who think like you.

Making a comparison like this in a public forum completely dishonors the speaker (you) and those affiliated with you who don't denounce it, like it or not.

That's my opinion as a person, not as a player in the game.

Garthen

And garthen just saying there are more then 7 billions people out there that dont  play and dont read those forums so since they dont know about it and therefore can't denounce it you will call them dishonorable ? I sure hope not lol !

I think Jaesche said it clearly enough and Sajreth with his comment also implied that the comment was innapropriate and out of place. 

100 other people saying its an horrible/not nice  dishonorable etc wont change the fact that its been said. (or rather written)

Lets rest the case and hope Hellion19 express himself in a more....likeable way when he does comparison.

Back on topic : is WE getting more war declaration or are we to the point of peace negotiation ? oh and congrats Sajreth and best of luck to you to get your alliance out of this mess.

That's an interesting interpretation of what I said. Let me clarify:

The term "affiliated with" in the paragraph I wrote applies not to every human living on the planet, but to those players in the game who are affiliated with Hellion and are active on this thread and come across it in their reading. My fault for not being more specific.

And yes, I do think that if they allow a comment like that to go forth without denouncing it or otherwise addressing it, it's a dishonor. You don't need to feel that way, it's all good.

As for  denounciation, I feel people for whom that comment was supposedly meant for ALREADY made their opinion quite clear about the matter. 

Otherwise I will be disgusted. /me shrug I'll just wont waste my time on forums no more wich can't be a bad thing really. 

Call me dishonorable if you wish I dont mind at all I'm afraid that wont change my good opinion of myself :D  nor make me denounce until I'm 100% sure this was deliberate

No one said you're dishonorable. To clear up any confusion, here's what I said:
 

I notice that you are now ranked higher than RMY, but in no way does that show that RMY has "stepped down". RMY is still listed as "Supremo" and is still a WE leader. Your current role of "Chairelf" doesn't sound very convincing that you are now in charge of WE. Sorry not buying it....

Tallica, when I look on RES membership, I can see you ranked lower than TD  =>  TD would be the person I address.  If TD is listening to any ideas of you, that would be his choice alone...

Same with WE now. Just give Sajreth the chance to tell his ideas (off forum, as it seems). If they prove to be RMY's ideas (nothing bad on that...imo...), TD is free to say no...

But please don't say no, just because RMY still is a high player in RES...