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29NOV12 - Sovereignty Stew

Printed From: Illyriad
Category: News & Announcements
Forum Name: Announcements
Forum Description: Changes, patch release dates, server launch dates, downtime notifications etc.
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=4521
Printed Date: 17 Aug 2019 at 22:14
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Topic: 29NOV12 - Sovereignty Stew
Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Subject: 29NOV12 - Sovereignty Stew
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2012 at 06:41
tldr; tldr; version

If the map shows you that you own sov that you're not actually paying any upkeep for, it's going to go bye-bye. And no one else need attend with pitchforks and torches.


tldr version;

  • There are a few things broken in sov
  • We're trying to fix them
  • The first step in fixing them is to remove sovereignty (the squares and the structures thereon) from any town that isn't actually paying any Gold or RP upkeep for said square
  • We will be doing this on Saturday the 1st of December

Poetic Version: 
Making the perfect Sovereignty Stew

The Sovereignty Stew consists of many ingredients:
  1. Some are freshly grown, 
  2. Some have been cultivated over many seasons, and 
  3. Some are plucked and crushed by the pestles of pestilence and the mortars of siege
However, as with any great stew that has been bubbling in the tribal pot - renewing continuously over many generations - there's always been the possibility of small flies inadvertently falling in.

There have been many young, thrusting and dynamic chefs who have arrived on the scene with their new version of the basic stew that we all know and love so well, producing amazing dishes from the recipes available.

Whilst some new chefs have contributed to the stew's development in unexpected but flavoursome directions, others have remained in the kitchen - whilst abandoning their stewmaking halfway through - so that they might move onto other recipes.... but this has left the poor kitchen staff with a mess to clear up.  

Yet other more-established chefs have fought over ingredients in unexpected ways, throwing down their tools and leaving the kitchen halfway through their preparations, like a horribly sabotaged version of Masterchef... leaving the kitchen staff to clean up the ensuing culinary disaster!

And in an exciting twist, half way through the competition, Oh my!  The judges replaced all the chefs' kitchen equipment with a new set of sovereignty UI pages! 

Oh wait, dammit.  UI isn't a kitchen metaphor.

What I'm trying to say here is that the recipe is sovereignty itself, the dishes are the sovereign structures, the ingredients are the maptiles, the chefs are the players, the devs are the kitchen staff and the flies are the bugs.  Chefs who abandon stewmaking but remain in the kitchen are those who run out of Gold and RP. Chefs who fight over ingredients are those who counterclaim sov, and the devs changed the kitchen equipment sov page a few months ago. 

Which means the devs are the judges and the kitchen staff.  No wait again... that can't be right.  

The stew is sovereignty, the recipe is the codebase, and the ingredients are the maptiles. Or are they the new resource tiles?  No... no.. I can do this...

Oh, double dammit. I can't.  And this horribly extended metaphor started so well.

Ignore the Poetic Version.

Here goes again.

Straightforward version

THE PROBLEM

There are a few issues with sovereignty upkeep after some sets of circumstances, and this has left some extra knock on effects to other towns.

HOW CAN I TELL IF THIS ISSUE AFFECTS MY TOWN

IF your sovereignty page shows:
  1. you have sovereignty that you cannot increase a claim on (above your town's sovereign research level, ofc and where you meet all the sovereignty requirements), or
  2. you have sovereignty that you cannot decrease a claim on (brackets as above), or
  3. you have sovereignty that you cannot upgrade or downgrade a structure on (above your town's sovereign research level, ofc)
  4. AND THIS SOVEREIGNTY IS NOT COSTING YOUR TOWN ANY GOLD OR RESEARCH UPKEEP

    OR

  5. You are trying to counterclaim sovereignty on any square that is (doubtless unbeknownst to you) affected by the issue above but you either get an error message when trying to counterclaim or are NOT BEING CHARGED ANY GOLD OR RESEARCH UPKEEP FOR YOUR COUNTERCLAIM 
... then you are probably affected by this.

I would hazard a guess that if you haven't opened a petition (or, indeed, dozens of identical petitions) with the subject line "Sovereignty claim/counter-claim bug" in each... then you probably aren't affected by this.

HOW MANY PLAYERS ARE AFFECTED BY THIS?

There are some 120 players owning about 140 towns with about 700 squares of sovereignty between them.

Before anyone oils up the torches and sharpens the pitchforks, whilst the sovereignty hasn't cost them anything in terms of RP and Gold, it also hasn't given the players any production structure town benefit benefit either. 

SO WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO?

This Saturday, 1st December, we're going to remove all these sovereign squares, and the structure on them, from the game.

We've put in a bunch of bug-catching code in various critical points in the sov decision-making process so we can then work out more about how these "orphan" sovereignty squares came about.  

We're pretty sure it's through a combination of towns:
  • running out of gold and/or RP to support existing sov claims and not being tidied up correctly, and/or 
  • people counter-claiming on the selfsame squares, or
  • sovereignty left behind before the last exodus patch, or 
  • sovereign claims from the same player but from different towns, or
  • any combination of the above events
... but we'd like this confirmed on live before saying "yes, it's all good".

So. 

We think some of the flies in the stew (slap!) um... bugs in the sovereignty code will still be there come Sunday, but many existing issues directly affecting players will be gone, and we'll be able to track back the events of what might cause these issues much more carefully when they happen again in the future.

I'll make a post once the actual changes have been made, sometime on Saturday.

Best,

SC



Replies:
Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2012 at 07:01
Actually, in a conversation I just had that really highlights the classic "programmer vs frustrated Eng Lit" guy debate, here's a real tldr;

If the map shows you that you own sov that you're not actually paying any upkeep for, it's going to go bye-bye. And no one else need attend with pitchforks and torches.

Sweet.

SC

EDIT: Added to main post as tldr;tldr;


Posted By: Diomedes
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2012 at 08:44
I love the poetic version better, GM Stormcrow.... but then I'm one of the many crows in Illy, so I probably love all your work anyway

-------------
"Walk in the way of the good, for the righteous will dwell in the land"


Posted By: Ryklaw
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2012 at 13:08
Thanks not only for the hard work on this bug, but the excellent explanation.


Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2012 at 14:50
In the same why that a human being is just an egg's way of producing more eggs - is it possible that this entire game is just a way for you to have a platform to post extended metaphors and clever English?



-------------
"This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM

"a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill


Posted By: Albatross
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2012 at 18:41
Hey, you should try putting the cooking wine in the food ;o)

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Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2012 at 00:39
Is this going to solve the problem where you can't upgrade ocean sov anymore? (hope, hope!)


Posted By: scaramouche
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2012 at 19:03
i found another fault that remains when you exodus...but i aint spilling the beans, wise SC and his buddies will sort that out too....lol

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NO..I dont do the Fandango!


Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2012 at 20:49
This sovereignty cancellation has now been actioned.

Players who were affected by it have received ingame mail explaining what we've done.

Thanks for your patience.

Best,

SC


Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2012 at 22:02
On behalf of my alt, El_Jeffe, Thank You!


Posted By: Beecks
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2012 at 22:26
This seems related to the newest patch so I thought it best to post here:

I built negative troops. In two of my cities (soon to be three) I was building Mangonels. After completing those I had a large number of Trueshots queued. The transition from Cats to Archers went fine but when I switched my sov layout from Assembly Yards to Target Ranges my queue changed from 70/ xxxxx troops produced to -350 / xxxxx troops produced.

The number of negative troops does seem to be decreasing (or the number of troops is increasing depending on how you look at it) but as a test I removed 50 Trueshots from one of my armies and they disappeared and failed to show up in my Unit Pool.

Weird bug but because the number of troops left to complete now shows (xxxxx + 351) there isn't any real impact other than the time it takes to dig myself out of the negative troop hole.


Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2012 at 23:06
great bug!


Posted By: GM Luna
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2012 at 23:17
Beeks, file a petition in game please.

Luna


-------------
GM Luna | Illyriad Community Manager | community@illyriad.co.uk



Posted By: Beecks
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2012 at 05:57
Originally posted by GM Luna GM Luna wrote:

Beeks, file a petition in game please.

Luna

Gotcha, Done. Big smile


Posted By: Diva
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2013 at 02:32
Thanks for the Tourney Devs.. but I feel cheated cuz I couldn't level up sovs and increase gold, add other buildings on sovs.. to put out my measly army.
BUT its been 4 months.. hitting 5, I don't remember which The Dude asked me "why are you still here (sic) living with the glitches?".

Now I ask you Devs, why am I? I am a paying customer, no I don't pay your salary, and I don't expect differential treatment cuz I do. I'm just saying am I wasting $$ and time being here.. I feel TRULY AFFECTED by the glitch during the tourney for troop making. I'm just saying. Please fix it or tell me what to do? I got nothing from my petition.. even when it affected another city.


Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2013 at 04:19
Exodus your city, Diva.  That should reset the sov.  Yes, it's painful and shouldn't be necessary, but if you'd exo'd 4 months ago your cities would be rebuilt by now.


Posted By: DeathDealer89
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2013 at 04:56
But he shouldn't have had to.  If bought a house but it had a leaky roof and was told it would be fixed.  I wouldn't demolish and rebuild it when the leaky roof never got fixed.  Instead I would demand the leaky roof get fixed.  Or go buy a different house and stop using that house builder.  


Posted By: Diva
Date Posted: 01 May 2013 at 05:26
Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

Exodus your city, Diva.  That should reset the sov.  Yes, it's painful and shouldn't be necessary, but if you'd exo'd 4 months ago your cities would be rebuilt by now.

And why would I do that? explain .. like one square over? move to another area? Exodus is really painful imo.

And I was explaining how it hindered my gameplay. Doesn't that count and what I've lost in PAYING FOR IT (gold/rp/mana)?.. and you say 4 months ago  I should have exodus'd and been happy to do that? You are not feeling my pain. How would I know it would take 4 months to even get acknowledged.. I talked to the right people WAY before this. I like the game, not the glitch. Do you feel it will never be fixed, so why b**** about it? C'mon.


Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 01 May 2013 at 06:42
Yes, exo one square over or two squares -- if you have a nearby square that would be more favorable to your goals, this would be a good time to make that move.  I'm trying to suggest something that will work as a solution that you can control.  It is less painful than razing the city and will allow you to get on with the game.

I don't know when or whether this glitch will be fixed, but the track record for fixing sovereignty glitches is not particularly good (it usually takes months or years, if it is fixed at all).  My personal approach would be to assume that it will not be fixed in a timely manner and then figure out how to move on.

My purpose is not to argue about whether this is "right" or "wrong" or "bad" or "good."  I'm just speaking from my observation of this sort of thing, and I'd recommend that you take steps, even though painful, to change the situation in a way that you can control.


Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 01 May 2013 at 08:40
I am with Rill here. 

An ideal situation would be that the devs fix it but you might not want to hold your breath.

I suggest you do the exodus and get on with your gaming.

-------------
"This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM

"a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill


Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 01 May 2013 at 23:45
I think the suggestion that Diva should suffer Exodus due to a bug that has plagued her for several months is absurd.

1) Exodus will not ensure she will not be afflicted again by this bug.  
2) Exodus will terraform the square the city is currently on to a 5 food sq.  
3) Exodus exacerbates her damage caused by the bug by setting back her development further.

I may have misunderstood TheDiva on GC, but as I understand it this glitch is hitting all her cities.  And she is unable to add new Sov claims which means that the Exodus limit of 10 sqs might not be avoided by claiming a level 5 Sov (since she is unable to claim it).


Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 01 May 2013 at 23:47
Originally posted by Diva Diva wrote:

***
I don't remember which The Dude asked me "why are you still here (sic) living with the glitches?".

***
TheDiva, there is only 1 The_Dude in Illy and he is me.  I understand that there is confusion regarding my identity caused by the false statements contained in the popular new player guide frequently linked to GC.  But there is no "which."  Only me.


Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 02 May 2013 at 00:00
Exodus would not necessarily terraform the square she is currently on to a 5-food square.  It is possible that I haven't understood TheDiva's sovereignty issues; it was my understanding that she is afflicted by the bug that makes her unable to cancel the sovereignty she previously claimed and then lost, which means that she has "ghost" sovereignty squares that she is then unable to claim.

Exodusing her city and then re-Exodusing back to the same square would resolve the problem without the negative effects described by TD.

On another note, there are multiple players with "dude" in their names in Illy, as well as of course The Duke.  The_Dude is well aware of this, so is perhaps poking gentle fun at himself in his suggestion that confusion about his identity is in any way related to the new player guide.


Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 02 May 2013 at 00:10
Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

Exodus would not necessarily terraform the square she is currently on to a 5-food square. ****
That has been my observation.  I think it is designed to prevent players from populating multiple 7 food sqs through terraforming.  But there are probably glitches that allow some 7 food to retain that character after Exodus.  TheDiva should not have to play Illy-Glitch Lotto.


Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 02 May 2013 at 00:14
Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

***

On another note, there are multiple players with "dude" in their names in Illy, as well as of course The Duke.  The_Dude is well aware of this, so is perhaps poking gentle fun at himself in his suggestion that confusion about his identity is in any way related to the new player guide.
TheDiva says "The Dude" which could only refer to me.  Not "some dude".  Not The Duke who, like TheDiva, has been referred to as "TD" on GC from time to time (much to my chagrin.)

I am not poking gentle fun at myself.  I have heard from many, many players over the last year and half or so questioning my identity.  This is promoted on GC daily by the false statements in the new player guide.


Posted By: GM Luna
Date Posted: 02 May 2013 at 00:32
Please don't continue to derail the topic talking about player names.

If you have an open petition about a sov issue, please feel free to update it. We are aware of continued issues in the system and will hopefully be able to address them yet again. Thanks for your patience.

Luna


-------------
GM Luna | Illyriad Community Manager | community@illyriad.co.uk



Posted By: Diva
Date Posted: 02 May 2013 at 00:59
I went to update it a 3rd time.. and lost it somewhere in a F5 move I think.. and then just dropped reporting it at all. Some weeks later I saw this thread 2 days ago, and said self say something here where they can see it for a 3rd time.

Rill, its not one city.. its two, not even CLOSE, that are affected, its not one sov that's affected, its more in both cities. I have leveled them up, and never get the option to level up the building "type" on the sov. Did I notice it right away? no. I just leveled up the option to sov, had to wait the day, 2, days, 3 days.. and never noticed as I'm a busy girl, and when I noticed, I could not, and the gold and rp was being extracted, I placed a petition. When it happened in 2nd city, I updated said petition.

Exodus is not really an option I'm going to take. I'm giving the Devs the benefit to fix it. I would have appreciated an acknowledgement BEFORE I found this thread..and again thanks for thanking me for my patience Luna. I was not dissing The_Dude, but merely indicating I believe I have seen The Dude, perhaps I should check glasses, cuz it may have the The Duke.. no matter who said it it was said, but I wasn't degrading anyone .. Ya'll are tops in my book.

I think the Devs know I'm disenfranchised... I'm sure I'm top priority. KIDDING!.  But do hurry up.



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