Politics & Diplomacy - And now, the confederations

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And now, the confederations

Printed From: Illyriad
Category: The World
Forum Name: Politics & Diplomacy
Forum Description: If you run an alliance on Elgea, here's where you should make your intentions public.
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=4465
Printed Date: 16 Apr 2022 at 21:32
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com

Topic: And now, the confederations

Posted By: kerozen
Subject: And now, the confederations
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2012 at 23:09

After watching the war, much complex is the peace.

same rule than other graph, but for confeds.

want to play interactively, zoom etc... ???

Go here : http://illyriad.jokair.info/tests/illy.peace.html" rel="nofollow - http://illyriad.jokair.info/tests/illy.peace.html

scroll to zoom, you can drag a node to move it, you can stop the forces with the checkbox "Stop", change color...

Full size image : http://illyriad.jokair.info/img/illy.peace.v1.png" rel="nofollow - http://illyriad.jokair.info/img/illy.peace.v1.png

WDYT ?

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http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/194801" rel="nofollow">

Replies:

Posted By: Aurordan
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2012 at 23:12

I like it. How did you decide how long to make the lines? Or does it just shake out that way when you give it the connections?

Posted By: Aral
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2012 at 23:22

Fun. I enjoyed pulling the Harmless? node and watching the rest of the nodes follow it around the screen.

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Aral Llc is not responsible for any grievous bodily harm sustained while reading this signature. No rights reserved.

Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2012 at 23:40

nice - interesting to see. It would be cool if you could set 3 main node colors (H?, VIC, Crow for example) as (Blue, Yellow, Red) and then have each other node shaded a blend of those colors based on how many links they are from those three.

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"This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM

"a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill

Posted By: dunnoob
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2012 at 23:45

Great, I always wanted to do something in this direction with the alliance data. It would be clearer if you use a different colour in clusters of four or more alliances, where each alliance is confederated with all others.

Posted By: kerozen
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2012 at 00:03

@dunnoob:

yup, nexty step is to apply known algorithms (graph theory, using the good libs etc ...) to hilight communities.

@aurordan:

I set a default value to 140, you can change it in the right panel, then hit enter.

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http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/194801" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: Hora
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2012 at 00:06

The web really is cool!

Perhaps introducing some polygons for set and stated groupings like Crows, Night-Alliances and Consone and anchoring the mids a bit apart might disentangle the middle parts a bit?

Posted By: Rorgash
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2012 at 00:19

Dont forget the Dark Star Dominion

and this is awesome :D

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Posted By: kerozen
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2012 at 00:22

I want to see the result of Louvain method for community detection ( http://perso.uclouvain.be/vincent.blondel/research/louvain.html" rel="nofollow - http://perso.uclouvain.be/vincent.blondel/research/louvain.html ). Before trying to make something arbitrary, let the code talk !

the links are directed, so I can apply various algos such as pagerank (like google :-D ). at least I can try ^^

adding confed + NAP to calculate pagerank of alliances can be fun too ...

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http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/194801" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: abstractdream
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2012 at 03:09

Great work. Thanks.

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Bonfyr Verboo

Posted By: dunnoob
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2012 at 03:19

When I started playing I overestimated the meaning of the "direction" (who offered vs. who accepted a NAP or confed) on diplo pages, I guess you can ignore it, or maybe only consider it if there was an escrow.

Posted By: Albatross
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2012 at 13:09

Yep, that's very much where this kind of analysis should be going - good job. http://goo.gl/uP42R" rel="nofollow - I've done many-body gravitational and pressure simulations like this before , and wondered if it could be applied to Illy diplomacy.

Possible ways forward from here:

Try higher-dimension spaces (3D and further - means changing that math library you're using), which interact for a desired outcome, or tend to a position on a basis axis. For presentation, this space can be re-mapped to 2D/3D in context. This removes the artificial 'pressure' constraints imposed by the 2D space - these constraints give stability to the network, but don't reflect the flexibility of the alliance relationships: mutual confeds don't prevent other diplomacy!
Analyse to two degrees of separation, using the geometry/network to show: conflicts of interest, threatened alliances, safe alliances, and so on.

Edit: Exploring the first of these...

Try a 3D projection where you choose a base alliance. Introduce an additional constraint where the links want to settle at a big distance for War, and a small distance for Confed (so Confed, NAP, ... , War all have their ideal distances). The result should be the same clumping you see on your existing graphs, but layered by stance to the base alliance, either as onion-skin layers by diplo stance, or as a clumpy line.

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Posted By: tansiraine
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2012 at 02:22

omg i love it having fun playing with it

Posted By: jazzo
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2012 at 02:38

tansiraine wrote:

omg i love it having fun playing with it

We are still talking bout the graph right?

Posted By: kerozen
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2012 at 18:49

UPDATE :)

As planed earlier, I've used the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_structure#Modularity_maximization" rel="nofollow - louvain method to discover communities in the conf graph. here is the result : http://illyriad.jokair.info/tests/illy.peace.html" rel="nofollow - http://illyriad.jokair.info/tests/illy.peace.html

It is fully automatised, I don't (and can't) assign an alliance to a specific group.

I've shortened the inner community links, and colored them mixing colors of both extremities. It becomes readable !

full size : http://illyriad.jokair.info/img/illy.peace.v2.png" rel="nofollow - http://illyriad.jokair.info/img/illy.peace.v2.png

we now see how this spag plate was organised :)

9 groups, all linked from a few alliances.

One question raising watching this : recently it have been said that trading with someone involved in the war could involve you too. What about having a confederation agreement with them ? will H? declare war on BZZZ and IND for having links to Roads and Druid ?

WDYT ?

Kero.

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http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/194801" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: Le Roux
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2012 at 19:00

Very interesting. Nice work.

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Posted By: ropadope
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2012 at 20:38

So if you click and drag one alliance and the rest follow it around the graph...would, could you classify Illy as a demonstration of the Gaia principle?

Very nice work btw.

http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/146911" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: tansiraine
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2012 at 06:04

I love the pretty colors!!! and every time i look at consone EE in in the middle...even after i move it.. it comes back to them...

Posted By: R88
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2012 at 14:45

Kerozen this is amazing thanks for sharing it with everyone!

Nice job!

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