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03Nov2012 - Tweaks and clarity

Printed From: Illyriad
Category: News & Announcements
Forum Name: Announcements
Forum Description: Changes, patch release dates, server launch dates, downtime notifications etc.
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=4437
Printed Date: 16 Oct 2019 at 14:31
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: 03Nov2012 - Tweaks and clarity
Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Subject: 03Nov2012 - Tweaks and clarity
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2012 at 20:58
Mail
System mail and player mail now have separate counts on the notification bar. The green number is player emails, the blue system emails and the yellow notifications. This should help you determine if you have any unread messages from players more quickly.

Sovereignty 
The sovereignty page has its performance tweaked and be significantly speeded up.

Exodus (bug fixes)
  • A siege can no longer be landed on a moving city.
  • Diplomatic attacks no longer land when a city is moving.
  • Military attacks no longer land when a city is moving.
  • Some reinforcements would sometimes not be considered when trying to move a city. Now any reinforcements in the city will prevent its ability to exodus.
Herbs and Minerals
For several hours herbs and minerals ceased growing (but did not disappear). This has been resolved. Any herbs that were depleted, by players, automatically re-spawned at new locations. As we do not keep to the minute historic archives of the 100k+ herb locations and levels through time and they have already re-spawned to new locations we cannot restore them to their previous locations.

Siege Clarifications
  • Limited siege is a military attack using siege engines in the army against a city, if the army wins its attack, the siege engines get one strike at base accuracy, then the army returns as per an attack.
  • Full siege takes 12 hours to set up in an occupying camp in a square adjacent to the target city. Once the camp is set up, the siege engines fire every hour and over time their accuracy improves from the base value to 100%.
  • Only one blockade or siege camp can exist on a square at anyone time; however they can be reinforced. 
  • Only the sieging army's engines will fire in a bombardment. If other armies on the square have siege engines, these will not participate in the bombardment.
  • Full siege and limited siege can only have 30 city damaging siege engines firing at any one time, but more can be in the army. The extras will replace any destroyed during the occupation in the next bombardment (up to a maximum of 30 firing).
  • Full siege and limited siege can only have 30 wall damaging siege engines firing at any one time, but more can be in the army. The extras will replace any destroyed during the occupation in the next bombardment (up to a maximum of 30 firing).
  • As well as being attacked normally, if they have the technology, the defending town can "sally-forth" against a square that holds a siege. This acts as a raid and is an attack for combat purposes, and can only be done against a square every 6 hours. Only those armies will living commanders will join the sally-forth. If the defenders win the battle, the bombardments from the sieging army will be stunned for 4 hours from the attack time, and will not bombard until that 4 hours have passed. Unlike a raid, the commanders from both sides only take 1/3 damage (as per the rest of the army); whereas in raid the commanders take full damage.
  • If a sieging army has had all of its siege engines destroyed but the army survives it will still be shown as a siege encampment. Equally a siege can be sent with no engines. The lack of siege engines will mean the army will not bombard, but will still act as a siege for display, player alert and square exclusivity.
  • Once a target city's population has been reduced to the 25% of the start level, the sieging army will be given the option to storm and raze, or storm and capture (if they player has a large enough population to support another city)
  • To storm a city the sieging army, and only the sieging army, must win a final battle against the city and its defenses.
The two bugs that have http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/16oct12-customizable-avatars_topic4350.html" rel="nofollow - recently been fixed are the 30 engine limit was not always enforced and the final battle did not always occur. Otherwise the siege dynamics have not changed, this is just a clarification for players who have asked how it works. 


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Replies:
Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2012 at 21:09
Originally posted by GM ThunderCat GM ThunderCat wrote:

***
Exodus (bug fixes)
  • A siege can no longer be landed on a moving city.
  • Diplomatic attacks no longer land when a city is moving.
  • Military attacks no longer land when a city is moving.
  • ***
Please further clarify.  What happens to the inbound units when the target moves?  Do they immediately stop marching to the target sq and return home?  If not, what do they do exactly when the target moves?

Thank you in advance for your response.


Posted By: Arakamis
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2012 at 21:38
First of all, thank you for all these updates and especially for the clarifications on Siege.

Originally posted by GM ThunderCat GM ThunderCat wrote:

Sovereignty 
The sovereignty page has its performance tweaked and be significantly speeded up.

It seems that "SOV List" order has been changed. It was according to Y coordinate previously and now it is not. It is not X and Distance as well. So, how is the SOV List ordered?




Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2012 at 00:05
Originally posted by The_Dude The_Dude wrote:

Originally posted by GM ThunderCat GM ThunderCat wrote:

***
Exodus (bug fixes)
  • A siege can no longer be landed on a moving city.
  • Diplomatic attacks no longer land when a city is moving.
  • Military attacks no longer land when a city is moving.
  • ***
Please further clarify.  What happens to the inbound units when the target moves?  Do they immediately stop marching to the target sq and return home?  If not, what do they do exactly when the target moves?

Thank you in advance for your response.
They will attack whatever is there (but not the city as it is not there) then return. Previously they would attack the city which was not at that location.

As a reminder of exodus, the town cannot re-exodus, sally forth or send out any troops/diplomats for 5 days after arrival and is locked by a siege or blockade.


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Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2012 at 00:08
Originally posted by Arakamis Arakamis wrote:

First of all, thank you for all these updates and especially for the clarifications on Siege.

Originally posted by GM ThunderCat GM ThunderCat wrote:

Sovereignty 
The sovereignty page has its performance tweaked and be significantly speeded up.

It seems that "SOV List" order has been changed. It was according to Y coordinate previously and now it is not. It is not X and Distance as well. So, how is the SOV List ordered?
Should be Y,X ordered again

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Posted By: Canesrule
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2012 at 00:39
Will all armies in a city defend against a raze/capture attempt?


Posted By: dspn23
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2012 at 00:44
yes


Posted By: demdigs
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2012 at 00:45
I have a question, why such a low amount of siege engines? for an attack with siege engines and only one launch why the limit, say if i wanted to use 90 siege engines and am willing to pay for it we should be able to for attacks, i understand for sieges but don't understand why the limits of attacks.


Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2012 at 02:00
Thank you, GM TC.


Posted By: Darmon
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2012 at 09:13
Personally I like the change to System mail and Notifications.  I've heard a few people complain about the color of the Notifications tab, but I don't mind.  Mostly I just wish the "System" filter in the IGMailbox worked so it was easier to clear out unwanted/spammy System mails.


Posted By: Covmeister
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2012 at 10:44
Regarding Sieges, could you explain the mechanics of sieging from an ocean square. What are the battle characteristics of ocean squares. What troops survive best in water? Without ships, how do siege engines even survive there? etc.


Posted By: geofrey
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2012 at 14:35
How do you send a limited siege? I've never heard of this before. 

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http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/45534" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: abstractdream
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2012 at 14:46
@Geofrey: Put siege equipment in an army. Send the army to attack a city. The siege equipment fires off once during battle (assuming the army isn't destroyed) and buildings take damage (once) as in a normal siege.

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Bonfyr Verboo


Posted By: geofrey
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2012 at 15:31
Originally posted by abstractdream abstractdream wrote:

@Geofrey: Put siege equipment in an army. Send the army to attack a city. The siege equipment fires off once during battle (assuming the army isn't destroyed) and buildings take damage (once) as in a normal siege.


.... This is groundbreaking. Can't believe I didn't know about this. 


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http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/45534" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2012 at 16:33
Originally posted by geofrey geofrey wrote:

Originally posted by abstractdream abstractdream wrote:

@Geofrey: Put siege equipment in an army. Send the army to attack a city. The siege equipment fires off once during battle (assuming the army isn't destroyed) and buildings take damage (once) as in a normal siege.


.... This is groundbreaking. Can't believe I didn't know about this. 
 LOL

This tactic has been in use since siege machines were first introduced in Apr/May 2010.  Wink


Posted By: geofrey
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2012 at 16:42
Originally posted by The_Dude The_Dude wrote:

Originally posted by geofrey geofrey wrote:

Originally posted by abstractdream abstractdream wrote:

@Geofrey: Put siege equipment in an army. Send the army to attack a city. The siege equipment fires off once during battle (assuming the army isn't destroyed) and buildings take damage (once) as in a normal siege.


.... This is groundbreaking. Can't believe I didn't know about this. 
 LOL

This tactic has been in use since siege machines were first introduced in Apr/May 2010.  Wink

It's new to me :) I am still astounded I have never heard of this before. 

Is the accuracy like a round 1 siege encampment accuracy, or is it like 3 days after setting up a siege accuracy?


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http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/45534" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2012 at 16:53
Round 1

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"This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM

"a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill


Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2012 at 17:08
The tactic has a variety of names.  I think the GM post is the first time I have seen it called "Limited Siege."  Some call it "Direct Siege."  I prefer the term "Siege Strafe" because I think that conveys the idea in a modern term for a quick strike firing while on the move.  Sometimes I shorten it to merely "strafe."


Posted By: jordigui
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2012 at 11:13
 Hi,
 I am sorry, but i will not talk about sieges.
 It seems that when you start talking about sieges you divert the attraction from other important facts. Like politicians creating some disputes in sports (or a war, depending on the country) when willing to pass some difficult regulation (like tax increases) and don't want the public to complain about it.
 My complain is on the herbs extintion.
 Those of us who regularly harvest (take care of) some herbs have to face now the loss of some herbs. This is a big problem that has passed unattended. Big on the sense that I (we) had specialised cities to harvest some herbs near by. This specialisation implied the construction of herbalists guilds to high levels (sometimes 20) with the investment in materials to produce the guild and the herbalists.
 For example, in one of my cities, I was exploiting with 60 herbalists a rare herb that it has now dissapeared. And I cannot find the same or interesting herbs nearby, and I have to travel more for not so much interesting herbs. Similar things have happened in several of my cities.
 Therefore, the most efficient decision would be to demolish that particular herbalist guild and dedicate the plot to another building. With a clear loss in materials and time (not to talk about cities especialisations, for example I have one workshop especialised using that herb, that I cannot further assure its supply).
 Since I (we) have been exploiting the herbs sustainble, and the extintion has not been our fault, but a mistake (not our)
 Are you planning compensate somehow those of us who have lost the exploitation of those rare resources? 

 Or maybe it is another lost cause ... as knights using swords (which was quite common, at least in Europe).

 THanks


Posted By: Faenix
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2012 at 14:10
When sending siege units against a town which ends up being exodused before they arrive, can we please have the siege units return home if the town does not exist when they arrive?  Currently they set up a siege camp even though there's no city there to bombard.

Obviously troops sent to reinforce the squares around the city will need to have messengers sent to recall them, but it seems to me that the sieging / blockading troops should realize there's nothing there when they arrive.


Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2012 at 17:03
Originally posted by Faenix Faenix wrote:

When sending siege units against a town which ends up being exodused before they arrive, can we please have the siege units return home if the town does not exist when they arrive?  Currently they set up a siege camp even though there's no city there to bombard.

Obviously troops sent to reinforce the squares around the city will need to have messengers sent to recall them, but it seems to me that the sieging / blockading troops should realize there's nothing there when they arrive.
This has now been re-resolved  http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/06nov12-siege-exodus_topic4446.html" rel="nofollow - http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/06nov12-siege-exodus_topic4446.html

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Posted By: demdigs
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2012 at 20:49
I seriously dislike the limit of 30 siege engines firing at once, that is a harsh limit, because it limits you to a base 150 siege engines in a city, that's it, and you can't even have multiple sieges going from the same square, why is it that sieges are so limited compared to the rest of the game? ie. 12 hr setup time, start at 30% and eventually build up to 100% can't have multiple sieges from a same sq, limit of 30 launching. way to limited.  


Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2012 at 22:40
Originally posted by demdigs demdigs wrote:

I seriously dislike the limit of 30 siege engines firing at once, that is a harsh limit, because it limits you to a base 150 siege engines in a city, that's it, and you can't even have multiple sieges going from the same square, why is it that sieges are so limited compared to the rest of the game? ie. 12 hr setup time, start at 30% and eventually build up to 100% can't have multiple sieges from a same sq, limit of 30 launching. way to limited.  
You can have 8 sieges on a city; so 240 maximum firing on a city, and extra siege engines act as replacements to ones destroyed in attacks and sally forths.

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Posted By: Albatross
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2012 at 01:21
Sieging is a very powerful toy: it can wreck a player who happens to be inattentive for a couple of days. As such, I support balancing limits, be they: siege setup time, interval between attacks, number of units per division/army, build expense/time, research cost/time, maintenance cost, and so on.

Edit: having said that, I think there's scope for a 'soft limit' where you can have more, but it'll cost disproportionately more per extra unit.


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Posted By: JimJams
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2012 at 22:11
Originally posted by demdigs demdigs wrote:

I seriously dislike the limit of 30 siege engines firing at once, that is a harsh limit, because it limits you to a base 150 siege engines in a city, that's it, and you can't even have multiple sieges going from the same square, why is it that sieges are so limited compared to the rest of the game? ie. 12 hr setup time, start at 30% and eventually build up to 100% can't have multiple sieges from a same sq, limit of 30 launching. way to limited.  

If you were hit by a single strafe with 300 siege engines you would pray to have this limit set (yes it was working this way until those changes).


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