Potential Peace Talks?
Printed From: Illyriad
Category: The World
Forum Name: Politics & Diplomacy
Forum Description: If you run an alliance on Elgea, here's where you should make your intentions public.
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=4365
Printed Date: 17 Apr 2022 at 04:47
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Potential Peace Talks?
Posted By: Jasche
Subject: Potential Peace Talks?
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 00:52
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I have followed with some interest the views and opinions of the great and the good on the forums and as a group we felt it was time to post an update again and ask some questions. Rhyagelle and Absa have no diplomatic, magic or forces attacks on one another and have agreed to de-escalate their conflict. To my knowledge the whole thing which kicked this off has now ended. In light of this I would like to ask again - what are the terms for peace - from those we are at war with. I am yet to receive a response to my initial question on this so I am asking again. We hope that we can broker peace and bring an end to things and would look forward to some contact in the next 24 hours to have discussions in regard to this. There have been other discussions that have been doing the rounds and I would like to at least let you know how I see things. Consone is a confederacy of different alliances with their own command structures and aims. As I have said repeatedly, we are friends and it is why we set the whole thing up. There is no, one over arching leader. Much has been made of Consone being a Machiavellian organisation seeking to dominate Elgea or just a schoolground bully. Indeed the same accusations have been fired at Harmless? For our part, it was never our intention to set up a confederation as such and for those who know me well, they would know that would never be my personal aim. As others have said, the best way to see Consone is as friends whose alliances are confederated. I am not going to go over the whole 'how it happened' thing again, suffice to say alliances in Consone have their opinion and clearly Harmless? and others have their opinion, and those viewpoints differ. Now, speaking for Invictus I have noted with some interest the accusations towards alliances in Consone using the backing of the confederate to make land grabs and harvest aggressively. I have to say, at no time in my leadership of VIC has a VIC member done this without a clear signal to refrain from doing it immediately. The amount of guidance we have issued on respecting people's sovereignty and harvesting areas has been numerous. When H? broke their NAP with us 6 weeks or so ago, they said that they were fed up of our aggressive harvesting tactics. I asked Kumo at the time if we could not just discuss what had happened and if we could resolve any disputes without resorting to cancelling a NAP. I did not receive a response. I have never had any contact with H? resembling an issue that we had to broker over harvesting so this came out of the blue. I have had conversations with other alliances and we have come to agreements where necessary. A mature conversation would have involved us having a discussion and I would have valued that, instead I remain with a blanket statement with no substance, nor ability to address reasonably. Since that time we know about the issue with Absa and Rhyagelle. Two H? members moved over to Rhyagelle about a week before they declared war on Absa. I note with some interest that those members are back in H? and busy sieging our towns. So, I look forward to the chance at having a discussion about peace. ------------- 'The Welfare of the People is the Highest Law' http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/14315" rel="nofollow">  |
Replies:
Posted By: Mr Damage
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 01:29
| Dont think it needed explaining J as the message has been the same the whole way through but good summary anyway. Lets see if anyone is listening this time. |
Posted By: Rorgash
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 01:35
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Booo! Booooo! weaklings!!! Cowards! ------------- 
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Posted By: Silverlake
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 02:01
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Jasche, your words are always so eloquent and heartfelt, and I respect you for that. Unfortunately, they ring hollow at this time. While the Mitt Romney and Barrack Obama campaigns would fight to employ you as a speechwriter, I cannot let you go unchallenged in declaring that this is nothing more than propaganda to win the hearts and emotions of the masses. You have always been the master in applying your spin to the narrative, a wordsmith that Prince Harry could have used after his trip to Las Vegas, and a true statesman that is loyal to his cause. Friends help friends nothing more, nothing less, and those two H members were asked by friends to assist their alliance in dealing with a heavy-handed and first blood taking Consone alliance. I feel bad that you are the unofficial leader of a group that lacks a core of morals, and operates under your noble motives with fear and intimidation. Maybe if all the other leaders of consone alliances shared your honorable approach to playing the game, we would not be at this juncture. You say you want peace, but you alliance’s attacks, blights, and diplomatic crusades say otherwise. Please let us forgo the public relations campaigns, I do think your eloquent and heartfelt words fall upon deaf ears when the past actions of Consone members speak so loudly we cannot hear what you say. P.S. My best to your new bride Mrs. Jasche, and I like your new look! ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/57338" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Ryklaw
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 02:53
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Posted By: Llyorn Of Jaensch
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 03:03
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Jasche, You have privately contacted H? Management looking for Peace. Attempting to force our hand by bearing public pressure before dialogue has even commenced hardly endears us to join you at the table. PS congratz on the recent wedding, hope all went well! PPS Oh, and phonetically, we could be brothers! HA! ------------- "ouch...best of luck." HonoredMule |
Posted By: Ryklaw
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 03:13
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Llyorn of Jaensch joins with Silverlake as H? continues to denounce any attempt at peace. If I see H? post anything that suggests an opportunity for peace exists, it will certainly surprise me.
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Posted By: DeathDealer89
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 03:43
If I ever see a VIC true attempt at peace instead of just a stall for time it will certainly surprise me. If they wanted peace they shouldn't have started war. They opened this door now we will all step through it together.
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Ryklaw wrote:Posted By: Sisren
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 03:46
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Anyone with whom Harmless has had dealings in the past knows that it is not on these forums that they are to implore. You need to go to the H? Embassy to conduct this business. This is nothing new... ------------- Illy is different from Physics- Reactions are rarely Equal, and rarely the opposite of what you'd expect... |
Posted By: Ryklaw
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 03:51
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The count continues to mount of H? denouncing any attempt at peace. *Sigh - If I see H? post anything that suggests an opportunity for peace exists, it will certainly surprise me.
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Posted By: DeathDealer89
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 03:55
Crap i responded to a troll. My bad all, didn't realize until it was to late. 
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Posted By: Sisren
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 04:06
I'm not in H?, and I am not denouncing the effort. I am informing that VIC would know where to start that talk, and this is not there. ------------- Illy is different from Physics- Reactions are rarely Equal, and rarely the opposite of what you'd expect... |
Posted By: Silverlake
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 04:13
yes, you've said that ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/57338" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 05:09
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Consone had a chance to present a leader in the thread I started a couple of days ago. Consone explicitly rejected the concept of a leader. Each consone alliance must now make its own peace with all opposing alliances individually. Good luck!
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Posted By: HonoredMule
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 05:10
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If I see H? post anything that suggests an opportunity for peace exists, it will definitely surprise me. True behavioral correction takes more than a slap on the wrist, especially when empty/false promises, denial, and blatant misrepresentation are standard diplomatic fare. Jasche's liberal deviation from fact in this thread only reinforces the lack of change thus far. Once war has started, we're well past any possibility of a resolution based on faith. Now it ends when we're confident a false, temporary peace will not merely turn the tide of war in favor of the side with more troop-churning cities, and when the most noteworthy offenders are removed/relocated from a position of continued ability to offend. The time for negotiations will come soon enough, and Jasche should know more than most where that discussion will and will not occur. ------------- "Apparently, quoting me is a 'thing' now." - HonoredMule |
Posted By: Hora
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 05:16
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TD, most Consone alliances will be at peace as soon as H? and allies cease attacks. Having no attacks running by our side, feel free to stop your attacks, too  And Consone definitelly won't let you decide, which structure to choose. We don't ask you to change your alliance to e.g. constituitive monarchy neither...
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Posted By: Hora
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 05:20
...Could you name some of them, as I don't know any offenders on our side. We clear SIEGE CAMPS from your side... So please don't talk about offenders....
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Posted By: DeathDealer89
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 05:53
Interesting so the siege army heading towards me is a figment of my imagination then? Or could it be that a member of consone is lying on the forums. Hmm idk.
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Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 05:58
 I'm just razin' ya. |
Posted By: Hora
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 06:05
Oh, yes.... wrong addresat again. Sorry TD. Stopping attacks should have been addressed to H?, of course, as I don't know of any hostile actions by TD!
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Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 06:08
All consone make peace or no consone make peace.
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Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 06:13
 I wanna decide! |
Posted By: hellion19
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 06:31
And sadly there is no central authority in Consone to make such a promise. As explained in your other thread. This ultimately leads to empty promises and thoughts of random leaders that can't speak for anyone but their own alliance. Funny how that works?  |
Posted By: Aurordan
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 06:37
This makes no sense whatsoever. Because they don't have one single player leading them, they must not be able to coordinate even slightly? I get that they pissed you off somehow(all the angry faces made it hard to miss), but I don't think anyone's buying this.
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Posted By: hellion19
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 06:41
It takes someone to speak for Consone in order to promise something from Consone. Otherwise as they mentioned since all parts of Consone act as individuals then it would require each individual to actually make peace. This means that in order to make a peace agreement that everyone in Consone would have to speak for itself. Its hard to say Consone speaks as one group when its convenient then claim its not true when its not convenient. If you read TD's thread it tells you that is roughly how Consone operates (as individual alliances with a central defensive agreement)... means that each that declared war would also have to come to the conclusion to end said war also. |
Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 06:50
 ^^^ not an angry face.
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Posted By: Aurordan
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 06:58
There's no reason they can't be represented by multiple people, or agree on terms among themselves.
There is absolutely no reason for this to be true. More than likely, what will happen will be that all alliances on both sides end up with the same peace. This is the logical outcome even if there was no direct confederacy, because nobody wants their friends left on the field.
Not at all. As I said, negotiations will almost certainly be collective.
I have no interest in searching for and reading every thread from this war front to back. It would drive me mad as a gnoll. As stated above, yes, Consone will likely act as a confederation and leave the war all together.
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Posted By: hellion19
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 07:05
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@Auro Thats all fine and good... but again it does require someone to speak for it or they will otherwise speak as individuals. Someone has to say while also having the actual authority to do so and say that this confed believes this "XXXXXXX" otherwise with no one able to do so then its EE says this "XXXXX", VIC says "XXXXX", etc. Lets just say that EE feels compensation needs to be paid for this war to end (likely not their belief at this point just an example) while VIC states that they are done with it and no longer wish to fight. Absa feels they have been wronged after losing X cities and want to pay the opposing side back? Which route do you take? Would RHY/H?/etc side have to appease each of those... and if not who can make the decision for the course that the entire side makes? |
Posted By: HATHALDIR
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 07:19
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Anyone from H? who has posted here, we extend olive branch, do you want to talk? Talk to J PS i am not registered to H? embassy, don't need another window for this game. ------------- There's worse blokes than me!! |
Posted By: deorasandeep
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 07:56
OLD POLICY DIVIDE AND RULE  |
Posted By: Southern Dwarf
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 08:13
------------- Also known as Afaslizo ingame. |
Posted By: Magnificence
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 08:20
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That sounds like a fair and excellent exchange. Its just hard to see anyone as a hardened war monger when they have the word "pillow" clearly displayed in their signature. |
Posted By: hellion19
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 08:21
As far as I know that offer is on the table for anyone as both sides have mentioned it as a means of getting out of the war. You simply have to stop supporting your guild by being in it and leave that particular guild. Otherwise when you are part of the guild that is in the war you support its position by being there whether you openly state it or not. The leaders don't give the guild itself their voice but the fact that there are 80+ members behind said leader (more or less) is what gives said leader their power. If you don't believe in the war your part of its best to leave the guild your in as thats the guilds position. |
Posted By: Southern Dwarf
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 08:28
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Well I am supporting a great number of people with buffs be they in my guild or in other guilds. And leaving an alliance in which you were since the beginning is kind of funny because of that I am at the heart of Victrix territory. Leaving might well spell certain doom then. I make another offer though - a guild exchance program. I get a month as a lonely dwarf between all those orcs and Rorgash gets my place in my guild. Then he may fight the war and I learn whatever Orcs learn. . . Illy needs more democracy I think. ------------- Also known as Afaslizo ingame. |
Posted By: hellion19
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 08:31
Silly dwarf... us orcs never learn I thought Consone was a peace loving alliance I am not sure why you would fear being in VIC territory if you simply want to be peaceful there.... |
Posted By: Southern Dwarf
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 08:55
------------- Also known as Afaslizo ingame. |
Posted By: hellion19
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 09:03
Perhaps that was a silly Orc assumption but leaving your guild... while in VIC territory... I figured it would be safe to assume your at least affiliated with VIC... Which they are Consone and are peace loving Illyriad players according to their posts. So there may be a few things I am missing here... |
Posted By: Southern Dwarf
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 09:05
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Victrix not Invictus ------------- Also known as Afaslizo ingame. |
Posted By: hellion19
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 09:14
Ah so you were suckered into joining a war that started between 2 non-consone guilds and then was pushed into it after I still find it funny is all... SkB and RHY get into a dispute and ABSA drags all of Consone in... even people not in Consone (your guild). Some of the guilds involved on Consone I almost feel bad for just because of that. Part of why I mentioned it could use a central leadership that helps avoid these conflicts but instead people like ABSA can start aggression with the full faith of the alliance and drag you all into it without any real decisions made as to whether or not its ideal to do so. Though at the same time its kind of entertaining also. |
Posted By: Ossian
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 10:40
This is the voice that matters most in Harmless? because if he was to suddenly start making posts based on facts rather than convoluted attempts to twist facts he could signal the end of this war tommorrow.
Now matter how H? try to twist and turn the facts of this war by churning out propaganda and denials they cannot deny the words of the ir own leader Killer Poodle who's main argument for the declaration against the 11 alliances was that H? are a military alliance that wants to remain at #1 . Deny it all you want but everbody knows the truth for what it is. This has nothing to with original dispute now. It is becoming a sensless and depressing slugfest which most right thinking people are less than enthusiastic about.
What liberal deviation? The guy is calling for peace talks. For goodness sake; for the sake of the game agree to talk at least. What is wrong with you?
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Posted By: Rorgash
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 11:40
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Dwarf, we skin your people and eat the flesh, there is no place in the Horde for you, and im on the side of H? so maybe i should join you guys just to get info on what you are doing. The Reasons for H? not accepting individual alliances peace offers is probably because they can then start churning troops and get back in the fighting when they are strong again. the only way to deal in a war is total destruction of the enemy. Wanna look back at the BSH vs LWO war? we offered peace, they instead made us wait for their replies and they procrastinated until they stared their attacks again, we then decided to crush them into oblivion after we had learned our lesson.
-------------
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Posted By: Jasche
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 13:32
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http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/rhyagelle-absaroke-and-skeleton-boar-peace-agreem_topic4368.html" rel="nofollow - http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/rhyagelle-absaroke-and-skeleton-boar-peace-agreem_topic4368.html
------------- 'The Welfare of the People is the Highest Law' http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/14315" rel="nofollow"> |
Posted By: glorfindel
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 13:57
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To me, this smacks of desperation on Consone's part. It looks to me like VIC has been doing all of the heavy lifting on the Consone side, and that other Consone members have done very little to aid in the war. That suggests to me that morale on the Consone side is low. On the other side, I see H? continuing to open new sieges, as well as dlords. Morale seems high in their coalition. So Jasche using the rhy/absa nap as an onus for peace talks is, as some others have said here, a pr maneuver. Look, this war is not the war that absa and rhy got into over whatever that was all about. It just isn't. This war is the big war -- the grand war that everyone has expected since the launch of Consone. It is going to be the war that determines who controls the political hegemony in Illy. The way you win this war -- in my opinion -- is simply by not cracking. Whoever's morale cracks first is the loser; the other team wins by default. The way that Consone has waged its defense looks to me like their morale is low. The fact that they have not launched sieges is a gamble by Jasche. He figures that by not counter-attacking, he can claim some "moral high road." The thing is, I wouldn't think that getting sieged and losing cities every few days makes Consone players feel uplifted. If that Greyhawk city falls today, that'll be 3 Consone cities razed, if you include the one that rhy took down. For Consone, maybe a good defense would be a good offense? In the end, this war is here to stay for a while. We should all get used to it. It is going to be a war of attrition, and the loser will be the one who just cannot muster their troops any longer.
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Posted By: scaramouche
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 15:03
------------- NO..I dont do the Fandango! |
Posted By: glorfindel
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 15:24
Whether Consone wanted war or not, war is upon them. From my vantage point, which I admit is not all-seeing, they have not stepped up like the force Illy they claim to be. This war isn't going to be settled via negotiation -- it is going to need to be won decisively on the battlefield. Either H? and its allies will keep pounding Consone cities until they are forced to surrender to H?'s terms, or Consone will hit back and render H?'s forces ineffective, forcing them to surrender. There is no "meeting of the minds" in an ideological conflict like this, in my opinion.
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Posted By: dunnoob
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 15:54
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Posted By: The Duke
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 18:08
Second point- There are no terms from H? cause they arent trying to end this. Third point- RHY and Absa have agreed on peace, they were the alliances that got the ball rolling on this war. So i think them entering peace terms is in fact relevant ------------- "Our generation has had no Great Depression, no Great War. Our war is spiritual. Our depression is our lives." |
Posted By: DeathDealer89
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 18:57
Oh H? declared war, let me just go check H? diplomacy page. Hmm it seems 9 alliances declared war on H? while H? declared war on only two. So in fact we would have to go ask those 9 alliances why they declared war not the other way around. Hmm in fact everywhere we turn it seems consone started the aggression not H? this is most interesting. S tell me where did you find your info? Because it seems you may be seeing the displays on your computer backwards.
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Posted By: Arian
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 20:53
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oh for pities sake. Its not open to debate All the declarations are on alliance profile pages. Spin it however you want to but H? declared war first. In order 13Oct 02:49AM H? declared war on Invictus 13 Oct 03:21AM H? declared war on Absaroke 13 Oct 22:49pm Morituri Eagles declared war on H? 13 Oct 22:52pm Lords of Frost dclared war on H? 13 Oct 22:55pm Fairy Road Authority declared war on H? 13 Oct 22:55pm Dwarven Druids declared war on H? 14 Oct 05:31pm Worlds End declared war on H? 14 Oct 16:10pm Victrix declared war on H? 14 Oct 16:28 Skeleton Boar declared war on H? 15 Oct 22:00 Sages of Illyriad declared war on H? ------------- 'Do you want ice with that?' |
Posted By: DeathDealer89
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 20:58
Thats it isn't open for debate, H? declared war on two alliances. Then 8 alliances declared war on H?. Your copy and paste speaks for itself.
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Posted By: Arian
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 21:12
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It does doesn't it :) I have no idea who/what the War Clan is so left them out. And strangely my post wasn't copy pasted. Nevertheless H? declared first, and it was what? umm nearly 20 hours later that anyone else made a move? Bit difficult to spin that one as H? being some sort of innocent victim of aggression - also get the distinct impression they would rather be seen as the aggressor than the victim of it lol I can't see KP or Kumo as being anyone's victim at any rate ------------- 'Do you want ice with that?' |
Posted By: DeathDealer89
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 21:25
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Consone attacked first. Rest of Consone declared war. Innocent victim no. This is what we call war, both sides fight. But lets be clear who attacked who first. I'm just tired of consone spin as they keep acting like innocent victims despite being the ones who declared war. In fact the ones who got war declared on them, I see much less acting like they were being victimized than the ones who declared war themselves.
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Posted By: scaramouche
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 21:36
------------- NO..I dont do the Fandango! |
Posted By: Deranzin
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 21:50
"Nice" insult for all the players of illyriad that simply do not agree with you ... it is also great as a "peaceful" attitute too ... did you say anything about ego .?. |
Posted By: DeathDealer89
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 21:56
Wow I didn't realize H? was so powerful, to be able to force ABSA to attack RHY. I mean I've heard a few H? members were researching mind control but I never knew they completed the research.
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Posted By: Hadus
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 23:10
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Amazing how much more brief and comprehensible these forum threads would be if people didn't continue resorting to blanket statements, generalizations, and ad hominem attacks. I know, I know, it's SO hard to resist just throwing one minor little insult in there, especially if you think you can decorate it all nicely and subtly in order to cover your butt if someone calls you out on it, but don't. Have a little maturity. This goes for both sides. ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/157483" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Darmon
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2012 at 00:17
Sounds like this whole ordeal in a nutshell. It does sort of seem like the forum isn't the best place for extinguishing fires, though I still feel like dubious diplomacy behind closed doors is what made the sparks in the first place.
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Posted By: hellion19
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2012 at 01:02
As DD mentioned H? declared on 2 alliances (VIC and ABSA) likely as a counter to them trying to pick a fight with RHY. Consone firmly believed that they wanted to throw their entire weight further into a war... it could of ended with simply those declarations but after someone talked all those other guilds into joining and now they are part of the war. I imagine H? called their bluff and continued to fight as there is not much else to call those war declarations if they carry no actual weight. Its barely been a week since the 8 guilds decided to jump into an already somewhat even conflict... So its not who declared war first as there was already fighting breaking out. Its just each time Consone further escalated the situation so did H? side. Now you went all in and have no other trump cards to bring in your upset... RHY vs SkB -> bring in ABSA.... RHY hits ABSA --> bring in VIC. H? Evens it out by joining in to counter VIC. Consone joins in on side of SkB/ABSA/VIC... H? friends join in around this point. Consone no longer has anymore friends to toss in... |
Posted By: Hora
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2012 at 01:20
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...seems H? carefully waited with their "bluff", until they had good cards to play... ...and just wanted to mention "Mutual defense" again... this time without the whole introduction for Dummies...
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Posted By: hellion19
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2012 at 01:45
As mentioned earlier... H? now has mind control devices that can now be used to make your decisions for you in order to make the situation as it was. Perhaps we used this from the technology gained at Roswell which we then used to mind control Bush into a false flag operation on 9/11 then to confuse everyone we mind controlled Dylan Avery to make Loose Change. H? is behind everything... even before its creation because its also alpha and omega... beginning and end |
Posted By: DeathDealer89
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2012 at 02:09
| Hellion how dare you!!!! A starcraft II unit bring up real politics in this world of fake politics! Screw all those mock UN things. They should all just play illyriad :D |
Posted By: Llyorn Of Jaensch
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2012 at 03:22
Just checking. Our 'bluff' didn't include ABSA hitting RHY. ------------- "ouch...best of luck." HonoredMule |
Posted By: Hora
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2012 at 12:14
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Nope, I never said that. But that incident was the good occasion H? seems to have waited for. Having full stock of armies, then finding an occasion to go to war with nearly no bad PR. Must have looked like birthday and christmas at once for H? leadership... And "bluff" was a word from a player argumenting for your side, just the post above mine. I never saw it as a "bluff" myself. (Hence the semantics...)
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Posted By: Ossian
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2012 at 12:16
| Very funny posts everybody and very humourus...now can can we get back to the subject of peace talks please. |
Posted By: Hora
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2012 at 12:28
I fear you won't find too much serious diplomatic talks in forums, especially after both sides have staked their position at the start. After that, it's all fighting about wording, having the last post, and trying to get good PR. Forum is good for declarations, status on war, a bit of whining by both sides, etc... Serious diplomacy will be with IGM, I think. With me not being diplomate in VIC, and Sages obviously to small to get IGMs for Detritus, I can't tell for sure. But it would surprise me, if Jasche hadn't sent a bunch of IGMs to H? and vice versa. As you can see, so far with no resulting peace...
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Posted By: Llyorn Of Jaensch
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2012 at 13:17
Well I'll be sure to check my 'quote' button then. If that was the case Hora, excuse me if you didnt help us all the way. Cause we had to fight tooth n nail to get you to respond. Or, am I wrong? ------------- "ouch...best of luck." HonoredMule |
Posted By: hellion19
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2012 at 14:26
I thought H? just hacked all 8 of those guilds and just declared war on us after hacking said accounts. Surely they didn't press the attack button in ABSA or declare war on us from 8 separate guilds... that sir would be crazy talk. |
Posted By: Hora
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2012 at 14:42
Wrong again, I fear. The hack was faaaar earlier. H? seems to have managed to hack Jasches forum account, and posted "Mutual defense" in the Consone thread...
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Posted By: PirateKing
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2012 at 18:56
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Aaarrrrrr! PEACE?!?! I be havin' me eye on some good city locations, but ye ol' scallywags be on them already! I was plannin' on presentin' both Consone and Harmless with a list of cities I be likin' like sieged so I can be movin' my cites there!
------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/external/alliance.asp?AllianceID=401" rel="nofollow - ~SouthSeasPirates~ |
Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2012 at 23:03
I cannot deny such an obvious truth - well played sir. :) ------------- "This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM "a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill |
Posted By: Jasche
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2012 at 09:50
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This is a brief update on things from my position. Brief - because I realise that you guys who are not involved are likely to be bored of the whole affair by now... and enjoying the culmination of the tourney too! So far we have fought a defensive war for the main part and have attempted to sue for peace, particularly in light of the Rhyagelle/Absaroke agreement. This is not something H? and their allies wish to accept so we continue to be at war for the foreseeable future and there are no more talks ongoing. We have uncovered at least one spy within an alliance, and as others have said on here, that is to be expected and is certainly part of the game. We were disappointed at the fact that the spy had taken prestige spend from one of our players in order to build up her cities and I guess that is where the fine lines of morality, and 'all's fair in love and war' come in. For me - that is a blow too low, I am sure others would argue differently. I will announce no more as we need to consider what we do next in general. Good luck to all involved in the tournament in the closing days. And good luck to those involved in the war. ------------- 'The Welfare of the People is the Highest Law' http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/14315" rel="nofollow"> |
Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2012 at 13:14
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omg, hugssss, people outside your alliance probably know about what is happening in your alliance than most of your membership, your leadership got caught, they should pay the price, break up vic and roads into smaller alliances and let the game recover from your mistakes, i dont know why u want your lesser players pay for your mistakes....my social life is suffering, and someone better be reading this!
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Posted By: hellion19
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2012 at 15:52
to be fair though H? only declared on the aggressors (ABSA and VIC)... it was the other 8 or so alliances that hopped in and got caught up because of the initial 2 aggressors. Every time the battle was relatively even Consone brought in quite a bit more to escalate it. |
Posted By: Arakamis
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2012 at 17:40
| Not all wars are even.. Noone can blame Consone for stepping up to aid a confederate, just as noone can blame H? for coming forward as well.. Both sides have their own motives to take action and it is up to those to solve it one way or the other.. |
Posted By: glorfindel
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2012 at 19:23
With no personal disrespect due to Jasche, Consone, in my opinion, has thus far performed terribly in this war. During the opening of the war with RHY and ABSA, they first said that they would not intervene, but after just a few days, VIC sent massive attacks at RHY, which in turn led to H? backing RHY's sieges. Just as VIC felt it necessary to defend their confederates in ABSA, so too did H? feel compelled to defend RHy. The difference is that H? took timely, decisive action -- VIC and Consone leadership floundered for days as RHY stripped away population, troops, and cities from ABSA. Now that the war is no longer about RHY and ABSA, but rather the grand war that many have prognosticated since the onset of Consone, Jasche and Consone have appeared to be one step behind. Rather than counter-attacking, they have committed themselves to a defensive posture. Rather than appropriating joint Consone forces, it appears that they have defended cities piecemeal, with their "strategy" being to send copious amounts of resources to besieged Consone cities and having the city owner pump money into prestige to power build in an attempt to save the city. All the while, Consone leadership has spent more time and effort trying to win hearts and minds via this forum -- another bad strategy, since opinions on the war are both polarized and crystalized. There are also rumors that a few of the Consone alliances are looking to surrender directly to H?'s coalition, circumventing Consone's oligarchical leadership council. At least the quote above from Jasche reveals that maybe Consone is finally ready to realize that this war is "the big one," and that they have no choice but to fight it. This notion that the war should end because ABSA and RHY stopped fighting is bupkis: as soon as H?'s coalition and Consone declared war on one another, it was no longer about that narrow war between RHY and ABSA. It's about asserting who controls the Elgean hegemony. In fact, I encourage the rest of the alliances in the game to pick a side -- get involved. There is a big dividing line here -- a line in the sand about which style of power base will serve as superpower on the continent, the Consone model or the Harmless? model. Let's light the server up and see how it all shakes out, since this war isn't going to end any time soon, anyway.
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Posted By: Southern Dwarf
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2012 at 19:29
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I prefer the Crow model then. Do not get involved and stay peaceful. ------------- Also known as Afaslizo ingame. |
Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2012 at 19:31
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Posted By: Southern Dwarf
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2012 at 19:35
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TD, I just believe he wants to manifest the war game only perspective. ------------- Also known as Afaslizo ingame. |
Posted By: Loud Whispers
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2012 at 22:54
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Posted By: glorfindel
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2012 at 00:13
As I understand it: Consone's power structure is to onboard alliances and consolidate them under one central Consone leadership, creating a super-Confederation. Harmless? is a single alliance who maintains close bonds with key strategic allies, and builds coalitions with them when necessary. And I'd agree that the Crows offer a third model. To me, Consone, H?, and the Crowalition are 3 distinct ideas on how to consolidate power in the game.
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Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2012 at 03:45
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Posted By: Bard
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2012 at 16:11
Well no surprise really Glorfindel :) Consone was not set up to be a military alliance with a command structure like H? has, nor has it ever sought to portray itself as some great threatening doom mongering war machine. I think having members such as Roads and Sages would have made that abundantly clear. Of course it took a defensive position, that's the very nature of the beast. Of course it seeks to find peace, that's what it was created for, to share with it's members. As far as I know it has never organised for war, although there have been some war like actions since this whole thing began. Defending and breaking sieges is still the most likely form of military action you will see, unless people surrender unilaterally. Who knows, maybe they will. Maybe it will be a war of attrition, one side ducking and weaving and trying to avoid the big hits, the other trying to land them. Maybe H? will just get everyone on their side to mobilize and attempt a total attack on a majority of Consone cities. If nothing else at least it will weed out the inactives  |
Posted By: hellion19
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2012 at 08:44
Though they are regularly portrayed that way... its hardly true. Though the majority of Consone have not been aggressive they have randomy pelting my city walls with rocks as they have a few others around the map. Usually this involves telling them to shoo and don't bother me and they eventually get bored and stumble away to do whatever they normally do :P. As others mentioned peaceful alliances don't declare war and they have declared war multiple times now... |
Posted By: HATHALDIR
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2012 at 11:52
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correction Hellion 19, Eagles prior to this conflict had never been at war, declared or otherwise, now how many has H? participated in?
------------- There's worse blokes than me!! |
Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2012 at 12:43
if u cant win, u have to submit....the leaders just have to watch out for their members and forget their pride, i am certain that movement of accounts out of regions, surrender of a certain amount of castles, and lessening of armies with other things will stop this war....personally i dont see an end to it right now
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Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2012 at 16:23
We've been in two wars and one debacle. Of the two wars one was declared on us and one we declared. However, we don't claim to be a peaceful alliance - so what's your point? ------------- "This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM "a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill |
Posted By: Southern Dwarf
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2012 at 19:59
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What are those Beer sieges? Some lure so H? may scream out if a retalition hits their tool? Some people really can't climb lower obviously. . . Example: [29 Oct 14:21]<System> ** News Flash: The Siege of Black Pants in the desert belonging to ahaliel [VICX] by RePoe [ Beer] has begun ------------- Also known as Afaslizo ingame. |
Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2012 at 20:27
I persist in finding that the quantity and variety of unfounded garbage that is regularly leveled at H? Is quite extraordinary! |
Posted By: DeathDealer89
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2012 at 20:31
I'm guessing that Ahaliel pissed off RePoe. But then again H? does have a giant mind control ray that controls all actions of all players in Illy. Well actually they don't but for some reason some people think they do. Best form of flattery.
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Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2012 at 20:32
I love the way you are the best example of the point you are trying to make. ------------- "This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM "a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill |
Posted By: Beecks
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2012 at 21:08
The effort to turn this war into some Hegelian struggle of good versus evil is really rather absurd.
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Posted By: Hora
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2012 at 21:49
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Hmm... Beer either is sympathysing with H?, or just wants to use a moment, where Vicx is occupied in other battles. (Or might be even an arranged siege, who knows...) I fear they're too small as to be mobilized by H? directly. As for mind control engine... a few polite IGM's usually do the trick, too... but only is half as nerdy
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Posted By: hellion19
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2012 at 02:45
Well I was just curious as H? doesn't claim to be a peaceful alliance as per people in a higher position than me stated... so does this make you the pot or the kettle in the war? |
Posted By: Southern Dwarf
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2012 at 06:25
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I found the reason at their diplomacy page by studying their few relationships. Sadly not all of your allies' allies got the gut to declare officially war. Perhaps you are not to blame but before I believe that I like to see a real reason why H? did save their troops in the tourney. Until that time I merely apologize for connecting H? with a Night... alliance wing that directly. Edit: Am I to understand that H? has nothing to do with the attacks and would not defend beer if they are punished for these attacks? Just wondering. ------------- Also known as Afaslizo ingame. |
Posted By: hellion19
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2012 at 06:51
Not that I answer for H? or anything but are you expecting like a double war?... We are now at war *2! Though its slightly confusing that as your at war with some guilds now your already looking for another target. |
Posted By: Hora
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2012 at 09:16
Ehm... not sure if you even read the posts above... A Vicx-town has been under siege by a beer-army (=> Beer targets Vicx) When I looked at the siege stats now, I see, that the very same town now is under siege by DARK... kind of coincidence, isn't it? (=> DARK targets Vicx) So please read the posts above before answering, as you kind of switched sieging an recieving side...
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Posted By: Drejan
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2012 at 10:36
| VIC saved as much troops as H? in tournment. Courius to see statistics from dev. |
Posted By: Jabbels
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2012 at 11:54
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Peace, peace and peace. That's all we want. We have tried to talk to our enemies but they seem to have no interest in it. Being civil is obviously not possible! Deep down I'm sure no one wants this, it's ruining the Illyriad we all know and love. Let's all just go back to doing our thing and STOP this stupid pointless war. ****mod edit**** King Regards, Jabs (Couldn't resist) ------------- 
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Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2012 at 14:33
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*** mod edit to remove quote *** Umm. The trout badge is from Mannanan, not TD... And folks like ScottFitz have it too. We are quite fond of Mannanan and proud to wear it. Try gathering some data... |
Posted By: GM Luna
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2012 at 14:42
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Personal attacks aren't welcome on the forums and have been removed. Luna ------------- GM Luna | Illyriad Community Manager | community@illyriad.co.uk 
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