Illyriad is a Game
Printed From: Illyriad
Category: Miscellaneous
Forum Name: The Caravanserai
Forum Description: A place to just chat about whatever takes your fancy, whether it's about Illyriad or not.
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=4313
Printed Date: 17 Apr 2022 at 18:09
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Illyriad is a Game
Posted By: Drejan
Subject: Illyriad is a Game
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 17:02
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This discussion is not related to any event, just a general observation done by me. People complain as "unaccepable" or "silly" things as troops attacked, wars, beeing evil ecc. Can i point out that a game NEED those things? What's wrong to be a villain in a game? Any fantasy story need a villain! Have you ever roleplayed? Loosing troops do not involved people get killed, it's like avoiding killing enemies in an arcade game!!! I would push and say ingame racism (orcs-dwaves or elf-dwarves to make some examples) might be ok and could create some amazing fights, are you going to say it's racist declaring war between an orc alliance and a dwarven one? If you say in a game any player should not be kicked out, i agree, sieging players out of a game or alliances should be avoided if possible, but everything else is not a bad thing and should be encouraged!!! I've lost TONS of friends becouse lack of interesting fights and none becouse of them! I readed in other posts people that say things like " i hope you have no power in real" or "i hope american and europian players learn from this", this is a GAME! I hope that anyone attacked by me in this game do not think i would ever do it in real! We all should learn to split real life from ingame one, it's the first lesson anyone who play any game should learn. Do you fight with a friends becouse he did you a goal at socker? Do you think shooting someone in a game is like shooting in real life? Do you think that attacking "goblins" in a role play game is racist? I hope not! Let's talk! :P |
Replies:
Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 17:08
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+1
------------- "This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM "a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill |
Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 17:28
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This is a game. There are ways to play games that make them more fun and less fun for the participants. In the world of games, such things are called sportsmanship. I think many of the reactions you see here are attempts to make comments on the sportsmanship (or lack thereof) inherent in one action or another. Things like "don't kick a guy when he's down" "tell the truth" (tennis pros calling their own balls is a good example of this) Stuff like that that makes it not just a game, but a fun game. In Illy we have a long tradition of commenting on the sportsmanship (or lack thereof) of various actions. Hopefully we can remember that we are commenting on actions, not people.
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Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 17:36
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I can also point you to a whole bunch games ("Diplomacy" for one) which are extremely fun and exactly the opposite of the morality you think is required for fun.
------------- "This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM "a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill |
Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 17:39
Tell me more about what I think ...
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KillerPoodle wrote:Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 17:46
Actually - you told us:
------------- "This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM "a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill |
Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 17:48
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Agree with Drejan that this is a game. The towns, troops, millions of gold, the elves, orcs and dwarves, silverthorn herbs, all are part of game and only the part of game. The character of players may or may not be real. Some people take advantage of others, some people deal honestly. Some people exploit those who are weaker than them, some people ignore, some people help. I kind of believe those who deal fairly and show goodwill to others in a game are that way in their real life too. It is very much possible that someone who plays villain in the Illyriad sandbox, someone who spreads lies and act hypocritically as and when it suits him, is also an honourable and kind person in his real life. I don't refute the point.. |
Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 17:50
You may enjoy kicking a guy when he is down and lying. I don't. And I don't enjoy watching other people do it either. I am not going to apologize for having a sense of decency and bringing it with me everywhere I go.
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Posted By: Drejan
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 17:54
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You can not enjoy when your team loose a game at socker but this is the game... Again i do no say someone should "kick guys" or "siege players out" but this is a different story, there is a line between a game and real life that we should remember. Now, since this is not a flame, can i ask you both not to fight there, i would like this post to be costructive, thank you again!
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Posted By: Drejan
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 18:03
| I'll make an example, i once played a game called Ultima Online, in a role play server, i was one of the evil guys but i was in real friend with most of my "good" enemies even if we killed each other tons of time, looting too. Well, after 10 years, i see them from time to time in real life to have a beer! |
Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 18:06
Nice way to try to divert the point - in exactly the way you accused me of doing. It's not about what you want to do it's about imposing your morality in a computer game on everyone else. ------------- "This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM "a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill |
Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 18:12
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Oh - and to go back to your tennis analogy. Does that mean that when you're winning 2 sets to love you should let your opponent get a set back so it's more fun? ------------- "This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM "a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill |
Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 18:13
In some circumstances, yes. In some games they call that a "handicap."
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Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 18:21
Please try telling that to anyone who plays the game at a high level. ------------- "This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM "a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill |
Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 18:29
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In general, the highest-level players are the ones who care the most about things like fairness and honour, although there are an increasing number of sad exceptions. (Lance Armstrong springs to mind.) However, each person has to decide for him/herself what is fun for him/her and to what degree he/she is willing to sacrifice some elements of fun for the greater fun of everyone. My contention is that it is not a zero-sum proposition: That creating fun for others can be fun for oneself as well. Giving someone else a "free" set when both are fresh and could play another might result in more fun for all.
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Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 18:32
I challenge you to find an instance of that happening in any modern era grand slam final. ------------- "This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM "a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill |
Posted By: dunnoob
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 18:46
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Posted By: Drejan
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 18:47
| Has illiryad really have "fairness" problems? It seams not to me really |
Posted By: Drejan
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 18:49
| Again if i count the number of players that played with me that left the game there would be 3 digits, many left for real life issues, many becouse they had nothing to do in a game.. |
Posted By: Drejan
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 18:52
| I'm pretty sure this reply is related to the other post Rill :P np |
Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 18:53
During the third set of the 1975 Australian Open final, Connors was the beneficiary of three consecutive controversial calls. Leading 40-15, Connors intentionally double-faulted, drawing a round of applause from the pro-Newcombe crowd. After Connors faulted on his first serve of the next point and lobbed the ball in the air for his second serve, a fan shouted “double fault.” Connors caught the ball, but would then double fault. He lost the game, the set, and ultimately the match. “I don’t regret throwing it, but don’t put me in the same position again,” Connors said afterward of his somewhat questionable display of sportsmanship.
Read the full text here: http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/60379#ixzz296mxINJ6" rel="nofollow - http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/60379#ixzz296mxINJ6 |
Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 19:11
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giving away 2 points is not deliberately throwing the set - as per his comment afterwards.
------------- "This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM "a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill |
Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 19:15
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BTW - congrats on finding that example - what does it say that you had to go back 37 years to find one example?
------------- "This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM "a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill |
Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 19:20
maybe she went for a famous example rather than looking at the timeline and finding the most recent one?
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Posted By: Drejan
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 19:24
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Better question is: would you consider someone who do not give 2 points to the looser a bad player?
And would you consider him a bad person?
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Posted By: dunnoob
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 19:24
Posted By: GM Luna
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 19:28
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If this is a topic about Illyriad and not about tennis, please get back on topic before derailing further. Thank you. Luna ------------- GM Luna | Illyriad Community Manager | community@illyriad.co.uk 
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Posted By: Aral
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 19:35
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It seems to me it's very much a topic about tennis... Back and forth and back and forth and back and forth... ------------- Aral Llc is not responsible for any grievous bodily harm sustained while reading this signature. No rights reserved. |
Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 19:42
 ------------- "This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM "a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill |
Posted By: Faldrin
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 20:14
The problem is that people stop wars even before anyone is "down" or had any chance to show "sportmanship". All in all the game still need stuff to fight over that will give us advantages but wont siege people out of the game. ------------- 
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Posted By: Gossip Boy
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 20:17
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I completely agree with drejan that fighting a war can be fun but only when both parties are willing to fight not when one side is dragging someone else into a war which they don't wanna fight-thats bullying for me. Drejan you have stated an example concerning how you defeated some guys in some other game but your relations with them are still amicable in RL.Can you please try to remember and tell us that if both the parties agreed to fight or was it what I call as 'bullying'. ------------- Elessar2 [08:34]<Rill> when you've just had part of your brain taken out, you lack a certain amount of credibility <KillerPoodle> I can say anything I like and it is impossible to prove or disprove |
Posted By: Drejan
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 20:21
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They did not at all Gossip, i was brutal in my role, but that was a full rp server. After 10 years they thank me becouse of the fear of going outside "Britain" that made things interesting. I played Paladins in other server too. To be fair in ultima you could loose equip crafted in months but no one was able to kick you out of the game (you could always ress with your stat).
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Posted By: Gossip Boy
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 20:24
I thought you would be more interested in answering my question rather than taking cheap shots  ------------- Elessar2 [08:34]<Rill> when you've just had part of your brain taken out, you lack a certain amount of credibility <KillerPoodle> I can say anything I like and it is impossible to prove or disprove |
Posted By: Drejan
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 20:26
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I will answer in another way: most of them didn't like it at the moment, i did not when i was in the other side too, but made the game more interesting in the long run. But most of all, that was not me in real...
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Posted By: Gossip Boy
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 20:31
If I understood correctly the game became more fun for you.Obviously it wasn't that fun for the other guys as they weren't in that game anymore to see how much interesting you have made the game by eliminating them. I don't think people with a sound mind can have fun from doing things which come at the expense of other people's fun. ------------- Elessar2 [08:34]<Rill> when you've just had part of your brain taken out, you lack a certain amount of credibility <KillerPoodle> I can say anything I like and it is impossible to prove or disprove |
Posted By: Drejan
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 20:37
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bha as you like, i actually didn't like too, play the villain is harder than you think, have you ever roleplayed? but i'm a bit off topic, sorry The point Gossip is that you might like or not but that was a game, like this is and "you" should learn the difference between a game and real-life. I'm not interacting with anyone of you except about a game.
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Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 20:59
BTW - if you consider the example more thoroughly - the only reason Conners gave away the two points was because some mechanic of the game (the call on whether the ball was in or out) was broken and that had given him an unfair advantage beyond his skill at the game. It was not anything to do with the competition between the two players. In fact - if you do some research you'll find out that Jimmy Conners was a master of using meta-gaming (or gamesmanship) in order to win matches. ------------- "This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM "a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill |
Posted By: Drejan
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 21:01
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Seams like people in Illy are hoping to have a ideal society here becouse they have not in real. My opinion is: fight for a better society in real and have fun here.
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Posted By: The_Dragon
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2012 at 21:05
Lol, Drejan. That is very true.
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