Rhyagelle Responds To Absaroke Aggression
Printed From: Illyriad
Category: The World
Forum Name: Politics & Diplomacy
Forum Description: If you run an alliance on Elgea, here's where you should make your intentions public.
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=4306
Printed Date: 17 Apr 2022 at 04:20
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Topic: Rhyagelle Responds To Absaroke Aggression
Posted By: RHY Press Office
Subject: Rhyagelle Responds To Absaroke Aggression
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 00:30
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OCTOBER 10, 2012 -- Felagund -- Today, the Rhyagelle Alliance (RHY) took decisive military action to respond to a series of unprovoked aggressive attacks by Absaroke (ABSA) in late September. RHY's decision was carefully considered only after reasonable terms offered by our diplomatic contingent were patently ignored. The following explanation seeks to present RHY's casus belli for our response, and clarify our position on the matter. RHY would like to make clear at the outset of this explanation that our military response is limited only to ABSA. Although ABSA's aggressive acts were initially precipitated by a minor territorial dispute with the Skeleton Boar (SkB) alliance, that dispute has had no direct influence on our decision to respond militarily to ABSA -- we are only presenting it here to give context to the entire situation. In short, this situation is not about a mining issue with SkB, we have had no military exchanges with SkB in the wake of the events that precipitated our response thus far, we are not planning on pursuing military action against SkB over the mining claim in the future, and we are not responding militarily to SkB at this time. This conflict is limited to ABSA. The RHY/ABSA conflict began with a dispute between our alliance and SkB over a rare minerals mine in the Keppen region. RHY has used occupying troops to secure rare resource plots throughout our territories, and we have similarly respected players who have done the same in securing rare resources of their own. In this case, an RHY player successfully secured two rare mineral mines that Jefke (SkB) took exception to. After deliberations, our player agreed to a compromise and agreed to concede one of the two mines to Jefke in order to bring the matter to an agreeable solution. Jefke appeared to be satisfied with the compromise, and our player made it very clear that his occupation at the remaining mine would be temporary. To this point, no fighting had commenced between RHY and SkB members. It was at the end of this issue with SkB that Messer (Absa) attacked our player's position with troops ostensibly at the behest of SkB players. SkB members had requisitioned ABSA confederated to eliminate our player's forces deliberately. It is clear to RHY that SkB leadership was complicit in the knowledge of this attack, which was tacitly acknowledged by Messer himself in this IGM: Indeva State (RHY) responded immediately to this act. This was his IGM to Russian Blue (ABSA): In the course of this exchange, our player re-took his position on the rare resource mine that Messer attacked. Days later, our players' forces were wiped out again -- this time by a different ABSA player, Hugie. In this attack, thousands of RHY troops were lost. Once again, Indeva sought to reach a diplomatic conclusion to the escalating situation: September 30th came and went, and RHY received no restitution from ABSA, nor did their diplomatic corps make any attempt to reach a compromise. It was only after the 30th that Indeva began to receive the following IGM from Neytiri: RHY's decision to enter conflict with ABSA came before the announcement of the tournament, and in spite of the tournament's launch, RHY reserved the right to commence its response at a time and date of its own choosing, irregardless of ABSA's requests or the tournament schedule. Since this first IGM, Indeva has received repeated taunts from Neytiri as well, none of which he has responded to: RHY feels that there is casus belli for its response to ABSA. Two separate ABSA members attacked and destroyed thousands of RHY troops for no apparent reason, and ABSA leadership was unwilling to resolve the matter diplomatically. Rhyagelle will not suffer such a wanton disregard for decorum in Elgean politics and will pursue new strategic objectives against ABSA in light or their decision to aggressively attack our players and ignore the diplomatic process. Finally, RHY is aware of ABSA's membership in the Consone syndicate. We strongly caution against any intervention of confederated alliances on ABSA's behalf, including but not limited to Consone members and SkB. RHY enters into this conflict with the expectation that the combatants will remain limited to our alliance and ABSA. However, RHY is also prepared to respond decisively against any alliance who attempts to bolster ABSA's forces, directly or indirectly. We strongly encourage Consone to denounce ABSA's behavior and expel it from their coalition. Copies of combat reports and IGMs Diplomatic enquiries may be made directly to Jejune or Indeva State. N.B. Several of our confederations and NAPs have been provisionally cancelled while hostilities commence. Leaders can feel free to contact us on this issue as well. *** mod edit to remove links to private messages***
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Replies:
Posted By: Albatross
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 00:44
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Just part-way through reading this: you might need to remove the private messages. Although it provides a reference, it's against game T&C. -------------  |
Posted By: RHY Press Office
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 00:52
| If the links to our forum are removed, then copies of all IGMs are available upon request. |
Posted By: SunStorm
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 01:09
I would like to point out that Consone will most likely not back the actions taken by these members of ABSA, since this was already brought up in the Consone thread - however, I highly doubt they will expel an entire alliance from the actions made by a few. Perhaps Consone will pay the recompense and help to mediate this dispute. -------------
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RHY Press Office wrote:
Posted By: ES2
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 01:14
What good are allies if they don't aid their allies in time of need? ------------- Eternal Fire |
Posted By: Grego
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 01:23
ABSA will gladly share copies of all IGMs too. |
Posted By: AdamTheGreat
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 02:09
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A war over rocks? Seems foolish. What rocks?
------------- Sinn Fein "Ourselves Alone" |
Posted By: The Electrocutioner
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 02:16
It doesn't sound like that to me. It sounds like a war over being wantonly and unrepentantly attacked.
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Posted By: ES2
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 02:17
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This is funny, I wish you two the best in destroying each other and selfishly allowing more room for settlements on the map where various towns of the two alliances used to be. ------------- Eternal Fire |
Posted By: Crazybum
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 03:03
| .... |
Posted By: ES2
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 03:07
I was wondering when those words would pop up, please (as a note to both parties) fight it out as decent players and don't resort to (I'm the victim here, I'm being bullied/was being bullied!). Those words are overused in attempts to sway public opinion. ------------- Eternal Fire |
Posted By: AdamTheGreat
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 03:11
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Why can't you all just share?
------------- Sinn Fein "Ourselves Alone" |
Posted By: vty
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 03:19
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Yawn Is this over yet?
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Posted By: AdamTheGreat
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 03:26
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i hope so
------------- Sinn Fein "Ourselves Alone" |
Posted By: Crazybum
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 03:30
Your taking my quote completely out of context, and editing it.
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Posted By: DeathDealer89
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 03:31
Says the person who deleted their entire post.
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Posted By: Silverlake
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 03:57
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edit: deleted a poor attempt at humor
------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/57338" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Sir Bradly
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 04:18
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After reviewing the entire forum post and 5 addendums provided, one thing is abundantly clear. Absa's response was dripping with arrogance rather than diplomacy. Addendum 4 and 5 are reasons enough to declare war in my opinion. I respect Rhyagelle and its members for standing up to Absa and engaging in military action. Lets see if Absa can fight their own battles, or do they need to run to Consone...
Good Luck! |
Posted By: Aurordan
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 04:33
Ahahahahahhahahahahahaha Ahahaha Ahh. Yeah, I'm sure they put together that whole huge confederacy to not help each other in the case of outside attack. Good luck with this.
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Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 05:26
What they did not mention is Addendum 4 and 5 were our only response after 7 armies of one of our player was attacked and after several diplo missions against our cities. Also in the whole post the square where the battle happened is not mentioned. http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/World/Map/-403/-184/10" rel="nofollow - http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/World/Map/-403/-184/10 The square is close (2 squares) to SkB cities with no RHY cities near. RHY has a 24 square policy around their own cities, as you can see in their public forum - http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/Alliance/Forums/453/-2/4272" rel="nofollow - http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/Alliance/Forums/453/-2/4272 Absa involvement in this was Messer and Hugie attacked the camp 5 and 7 days after promised withdrawal of RHY troops. Their actions were out of personal friendship with involved SkB members and we fully back their actions. I was hoping that all this stuff would not come to forums and we didn't have to spend time on the forums, on the top of the tournament and a war. |
Posted By: Salararius
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 05:31
Run to Consone? Absa is part of Consone. How do you "run to" something you are part of? Do you "run to NC" or is that the reason we are all part of alliances and confederations? If I pick a fight with "Oxford", will it run to "Saxon" (both Sir Bradly's cities) or will it "fight it's own battles"? Rhyaglle chose a conflict with SkB which is in confederation with Absa which is part of Consone. That is clear and above board. Nothing hidden there, no "running" involved. Rhyaglle has escalated a "resource war" into a "city war". Fights over mines are a re-occurring part of the game. Absa actions were at the behest of a smaller confederated alliance that Rhyaglle holds blameless. If the smaller alliance is blameless for requesting military assistance then why am I (as a member of Absa) to blame? It was not a random attack by all of Absa but Rhyaglle's response has been random and directed at any member of Absa within reach. Absa struck to remove Rhyaglle forces from one location. That is a clear, concise and limited goal. What is Rhyaglle's goal if not the elimination of every Absa member in reach? Rhyaglle should expect Consone to fight. As far as Rhyaglle has acknowledged, they didn't even deign to contact Consone. If Rhyaglle does not expect Consone to fight, then so too should others. If no one expects Consone to fight, then Consone is a joke and we should be laughing and not talking about it. Can you say the same for Rhyaglle? Have any new members joined specifically to be part of this fight? Is Rhyaglle "hiding" behind these new members? Is anyone "lurking" behind Rhyaglle? Which side is above board here and where are people running, and lurking, and skulking? I would say that Rhyaglle is "running" to the forums. That would be a proper characterization. They are trying to make it sound most unfair if Consone fights as Consone has publicly pledged to fight. Why would Rhyaglle choose (they are attacking numerous Absa cities, not simply the two members that supported SkB) a fight with a member of Consone if Rhyaglle doesn't want to fight Consone? Can I pick a fight with just Oxford and then say Oxford is running to your other cities when they strike back? Seriously, I think that's just silly and I think people should laugh at me if I were to seriously post it here. I think these characterizations are silly too. The only extent which these characterizations are not silly is if they influence Consone not to respond. In that case, well, they worked and Consone is silly and I think everyone will laugh at Consone. |
Posted By: Salararius
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 05:42
I'm not responding for Absa, just asking people to consider the following thoughts.
"at the behest of SkB players. SkB members had requisitioned ABSA confederated to eliminate our player's forces" This RHY quote clearly acknowledges that SkB requested Absa military aid and contextually it's clear that this is a mining issue. From my limited knowledge this wasn't the only "mining issue" between RHY and SkB (or RHY and Absa). If RHY would kindly post every "mining" issue RHY had with SkB then this simple "mining issue" could be viewed in context. Another point of context would be the location of this simple mining issue. How can we discuss a war without discussing the pattern of incidents that started the war? Who here thinks wars start sans a pattern? How can Absa actions have nothing to do with a mining issue if SkB requested assistance with a mining issue and Absa's response was isolated to the location of the mining issue? If this is not about a mining issue, then it's about the loss of troops. How can it be about a loss of troops when RHY acknowledges "our player re-took his position on the rare resource mine that Messer attacked" that RHY chose to send troops to the square specifically to engage in battle? The most simple reason for RHY to do that is because of a mining issue. I think we're back to the fact that this isn't about a mining issue because RHY seems to be looking for it to be about something else. That pretty much makes it not about a mining issue so what is the bigger pattern? I think this is about RHY's "right" to put troops wherever they like. How does everyone feel about that "right"?
No mention is made if Jefke agreed to the compromise or if the RHY player just agreed with himself? How did Jefke "appear" to be satisfied? Where is that IGM? This paragraph appears to describe a declaration. If the declarer is much bigger and the second party subsequently asks for help dealing with the declarer then that's not an agreement and Jefke isn't satisfied. Can RHY really feel otherwise at this juncture? But seriously, if we knew the location in question we could all decide for ourselves if we would be "satisfied".
No fighting had commenced to this point because SkB wasn't strong enough to fight RHY. If they had, then you could simply swap SkB for Absa in the original RHY post. That's hardly a point...
SkB does not "appear" satisfied at this point. Maybe RHY erred and SkB was never happy? So, does that give Absa any reason for involvement?
Post all the battle reports so people can see how many troops each side lost and put that in relation to the reasonable diplomatic demands made. Again, post the location of the dispute and post all the reasonable concessions RHY made to SkB leading up to this situation. Vague allusions to concessions and diplomacy are no substitute for facts if you want to post here.
*inquiries ***mod edit to remove links to private messages*** |
Posted By: dunnoob
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 05:59
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Posted By: Darmon
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 06:27
Um...what? Is that contradictory, or am I just super tired? (Maybe the linked items are more illuminating, but I'll save those for when I wake up, assuming they're still there...)
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Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 06:37
I think there were two different mines being discussed, not that I understand why any of the rest of us care. Wherever the mine is, it's too far for me to mine it and I don't have a miner's guild anyway. I'm sure whoever is in the area will work it out somehow.
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Posted By: Diomedes
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 06:37
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The two chief dangers in this sorry saga are already apparent: 1. An endless discussion in the forum regarding a very small incident that has escalated into war. Thus we debate whom did what to whom, and why ad nauseum, as a sort of voyeuristic show; 2. An attack by one alliance involved in a confederation on another alliance involved in a confederation, inevitably will bring in more players and alliances - as in RL, so it is with Illy. The only hope is for the combatants to stop responding to comments here, and find a way to resolve their differences. Someone once said, "The best man in a fight is the one who walks away before it starts." ------------- "Walk in the way of the good, for the righteous will dwell in the land" |
Posted By: Mogul
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 06:46
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So your towns "own" 24 closest squares around them and if someone is harvesting there you call them "The offending party". But when you occupy with army and harvest on square that is within those 24 squares around other alliance town it is called "RHY player successfully secured" square. Besides that square is totally surrounded by maybe 15+ SkB towns and if I understood it correctly all fights where happening only on that square and 5+ days after you agreed to leave it... I mean all fights except RHY players now siege some random Absa players... --- Personally I don't think Consone will respond same way and start to siege your players but if you hope that your siege armies won't be attack you are most likely wrong.  (however even I am part of Consone, this is just my personal opinion as I found out about this conflict only few minutes ago when I saw siege notice in GC)
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Posted By: LordOfTheSwamp
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 10:26
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There are two issues here, as far as I can see. 1) RHY decided to claim some mines that someone else had a better claim to. A bit aggressive, but unfortunately there's a lot of that about. (Heck, we've seen someone in WE being obnoxious over gatherables and we're supposed to be Confederated with them!) Not a massive deal. They can't be surprised if their victims get grumpy and attack / ask their confeds to attack in order to take back what they reasonably think is theirs. 2) RHY launch diplo attacks, and now launch sieges and declare War because... errr... they didn't like someone standing up to them? (If there's a better reason, I'm not seeing it.) The two are not in the same league. (1) would just be "fine, so they're being jerks - sadly some alliances have decided to respond to the new gathering and crafting by being jerks, that's just how it is." (2) is seriously "WTF?!" (Edited to remove vague grumpiness!)
------------- "A boy is building sandcastles on a beach. You go and kick down his castle. You could say that it only reflects how you play with sandcastles. Others may think it reflects who you are." - Ander. |
Posted By: LordOfTheSwamp
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 10:33
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As an update: last night, shortly after the declaration of War versus Absa, the Frost town closest to RHY's main concentration was hit by a massive Theft attack. This may be a coincidence, but it's the first major theft attack we've suffered in a year, so you'll forgive me for suspecting that RHY are trying to stir up a bigger conflict. You'll also forgive me for observing that several big alliances - but most notably RHY - have had limited involvement in the tournament, so my pessimistic side fears that someone has been planning to start a big war for a while, and the Absa/SkB mines dispute is just an excuse, waiting until people are weakened by the tournament. ------------- "A boy is building sandcastles on a beach. You go and kick down his castle. You could say that it only reflects how you play with sandcastles. Others may think it reflects who you are." - Ander. |
Posted By: RHY Press Office
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 12:27
This is precisely the crux of our conflict with ABSA. Again -- we were never headed for war with SkB over that mine. The issue was that we were attacked in a completely unprovoked manner by ABSA, who had no stake in the mining dispute. Players are welcome to focus on this being a war over a mining issue, but it isn't: it's a war over being attacked by another alliance over a issue that didn't even involve them, and their unwillingness to negotiate a diplomatic resolution. Of particular note: The above admission is a confirmation that Messer and Hugie indeed were asked by SkB members to attack our position on the mine. Messer was deft enough in his original reply to not explicitly admit that he was acting at the behest of SkB. This was the reason why SkB has not been included in our declaration of war; there was no explicit proof of collusion between the two alliances. Thanks to the above quote, we now have an admission of a conspiracy, with two alliances, SkB and ABSA, collaborating on an unprovoked attack on RHY troops.
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Posted By: HATHALDIR
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 12:40
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The Eagles are more than willing to try and help broker a peace over this unfortunate conflict, and help put an end to this futile warmongering, especially when there is a tournament for people to vent thier displeasures! We ask the leaders of all three parties concerned to contact myself over the next 24 hours, to recall all seiges and cease sending armies for the interim. Because of our association with ABSA in the Consone confederation, i am more than willing to have fellow brokers who are neutral in this conflict. Sincerely HATHALDIR ------------- There's worse blokes than me!! |
Posted By: LordOfTheSwamp
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 13:32
Errr... so, you're on a mine you have a dodgy claim to; you agree to leave it; you don't; SkB ask their confeds to move you. So their confeds do. And you call that "attacked in a completely unprovoked manner" - and you react by besieging a bunch of cities belonging to players not involved in the above? (Or are zebazga, Vty, Snap Dragon, Skim Milk and Russian Blue actually all Messer and Hugie in disguise?!) There have been lots, and lots of cases of people losing troops in mine disputes. It happens. Nobody else uses it as a pretext to siege attractive-looking cities. You wanted a war. You're starting one. At least be honest about it. When NC attacked Steel they said it was because they disliked Steel's leader - odious, but honest. If you're aiming for territorial consolidation, or just starting a war because you fancy it, then at least say so. ------------- "A boy is building sandcastles on a beach. You go and kick down his castle. You could say that it only reflects how you play with sandcastles. Others may think it reflects who you are." - Ander. |
Posted By: Mogul
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 13:42
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"The above admission is a confirmation that Messer and Hugie indeed were asked by SkB members to attack our position on the mine." ... and thats why it was not war over mining spot? What? Why? How?  "Thanks to the above quote, we now have an admission of a conspiracy, with two alliances, SkB and ABSA..." There is much faster way to find conspiracy between alliances, you can look at alliance diplomacy forum and check for confederations ( http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/Alliance/Diplomacy/170" rel="nofollow - http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/Alliance/Diplomacy/170 ). |
Posted By: LordOfTheSwamp
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 14:24
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[QUOTE=HATHALDIR]
i am more than willing to have fellow brokers who are neutral in this conflict. [/QUOTE] Rill did an awesome job in the Valar lynching/war/whatever-it-was. In that case it helped that most everyone on both sides wanted the same thing, but still, she was a superb mediator. Is Rill around...? ------------- "A boy is building sandcastles on a beach. You go and kick down his castle. You could say that it only reflects how you play with sandcastles. Others may think it reflects who you are." - Ander. |
Posted By: RHY Press Office
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 14:30
The Rhyagelle alliance has already reached out to ABSA twice, after both attacks, seeking restitution for their attacks. We gave them our terms and a deadline of 9/30, which they chose to ignore. Once they made the decision to ignore our terms, RHY decided to use its military to respond. Up until the 30th, we were seeking a diplomatic solution, but we never even received a counter offer for solving the issue of attacking our position twice. RHY will not, therefore, enter into multi-national negotiations. As HATHALDIR has eluded to above, Consone members cannot be a part of peace talks, since their association with ABSA makes it impossible for them to act as honest brokers in any negotiation. Moreover, the polemic nature of the Consone syndicate renders the majority of diplomatic leaders in Elgea too biased to act as a mediator. If ABSA wishes to discuss terms of surrender to cease hostilities, they will have to be the ones to reach out to Indeva State or Jejune directly.
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Posted By: Jorcle
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 14:33
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Absaroke
(Absa) response to Rhyagelle (RHY) declaration of war I am posting
this in my capacity as one of the chiefs of Absaroke Firstly can
I congratulate RHY on a professional looking declaration of war that obviously took
some time to put together. The document is I presume a good representation of
the RHY viewpoint or at least that which they wish the Illyriad community to
believe. As always with legalistic looking documents the important points are
in the detail and omissions. I should point out that the declaration was a bit
late in that RHY commenced hostile activities against Absa on the 1st
October. RHY is
seeking to set the agenda for the conflict by stating early on that this is not
about the mining of rare resources but a response to two battles which they
attribute to Absa aggression. The fact is that this is entirely about resource
claims and both battles were completely avoidable by RHY. RHY is fighting a war
of their choice, on their terms which happens to give them a clear numerical
advantage. Like every other aggressor in similar circumstances they wish to
maintain those advantages. That does not
mean that they should. Conflicts
generally have some background before they get to the stage of armies being
used. The background in this case is the implementation of rare resource
locations and the RHY attitude to claiming those. Just so that we are clear the
rare resource points close to RHY cities are not those that have been in
contention. The points of contention, of which there have been many, concern
RHY occupation of locations close to other player’s cities and in some cases
very close. The location that RHY is now using as an excuse is a good example.
It is located at -403/-184 which if you care to view you will see is in a
cluster of Skeleton Boar (SkB) cities. If you chose to look at the location you
will not be surprised that SkB felt that it should belong to them nor will you
be surprised that RHY was aware of that. You may have noticed that in their
declaration RHY referred to locations as being in their territory despite the
fact that these rare mines clearly are not. There were
two battles that RHY refer to as being
‘a series of unprovoked aggressive attacks by Absaroke’. The first of those
happened on 23rd Sept and here is the battle report, From: System Swordsmen, and especially cavalry, find attacking into very mountainous
terrain difficult - although ranged units can excel. Narrow passes and gulleys hinder any mounted units' ability to defend
adequately. Nimble spear units have no such worries here, and defending bowmen
are able to use their height advantage to maximum effect.
You will
note that RHY held the square. It was Messer’s understanding that RHY had
agreed to recall their army from that location and he clearly states that in
his mail to Demios (RHY) of the 22nd September. Demios responded to
that mail some 15hours before the battle to inform Messer that Messer’s
incoming army is likely to be destroyed. Neither of those mails have been made
available by RHY in their declaration although they are the exchanges that deal
directly with the first battle. As RHY has been rather free in making certain
mail available for public view I feel justified in posting these on the Absa
public forum and will do so shortly. For this
battle on a location that Messer belived he was occupying by agreement in
support of SkB RHY chose to demand 30m with menace. RHY have posted that mail. Following
the first battle RHY moved a second army to the mine location allowing their
existing occupying army to return. In
short they reinforced so denying SkB access and creating the circumstances for
further conflict. That was their decision to cry foul about it now let alone
demand compensation is not the action of players who were looking to resolve
matters. RHY refer to this battle in their declaration as being one in which
thousands died. You can see for yourselves from the battle report. From: System Subject: FW:
Gathering units destroyed at -403|-184 Received: 26
Sep 2012 10:47 Original
Message: Two opposing
forces clash against each other. Swordsmen,
and especially cavalry, find attacking into very mountainous terrain difficult
- although ranged units can excel. Narrow
passes and gulleys hinder any mounted units' ability to defend adequately.
Nimble spear units have no such worries here, and defending bowmen are able to
use their height advantage to maximum effect. Attackers: Unit: Quantity: Casualties: Survivors: Commander:
Agamemnon (T2 cavalry) Knight 1 Damaged for 67, 233 health
remains. Troops:
Knights 994 669 325 Commander:
Ben Hur (T1 cavalry) Charioteer 1 Damaged for 67, 33 health remains. Troops:
Charioteers 994 669 325
Defenders: Unit: Quantity: Casualties: Survivors: Commander:
Lord Mord Death Dealer 1 Damaged for 100, 0 health remains. Troops: Fangs 67 67 0 Commander:
Mitennial Protector 1 Damaged for 100, 0 health remains. Troops: Elven
Trueshots 150 150 0 Troops: Sentinels 290 290 0 Troops:
Wardancers 1575 1575 0 Commander:
Tristan Phalanx 1 Damaged for 100, 0 health remains. Troops:
Phalanxes 127 127 0 Troops:
Wardens 324 324 0 Troops:
Sentinels 57 57 0
On this
occasion RHY were removed from the square they increased their demand to 70m or
the expulsion of two players from Absa. This was a situation that could have
been easily avoided by RHY. In fact they should never have created the
circumstances in the first place but
having done so chose to make things as difficult as they could and by making
unreasonable and excessive demands chose to give themselves a cause for war. If
you believe otherwise then ask yourself to whom your alliance would consider
those mine locations should belong and if RHY made such demands of you would
you capitulate. RHY make
great play of how reasonable they are and the concessions that they have made
over various resource disputes in what they deem their territory but they
seldom, if ever, mention that the locations concerned are not near their
cities. Slightly
before the 1st October Absa cities started to receive a high number
of scouting incidences and other diplomatic attacks. Namely sabotage and theft. On the 1st
October seven of Hugie’s (Absa) armies where attacked and destroyed by RHY
whilst claiming sovereignty next to his city. Subsequently
several of Absa’s cities in Keppen had incoming attacks which turned out to be
feints. Absa limited
it’s response to all of those to mail that RHY mentions in its declaration as
taunts. In short we had no intent of allowing RHY to goad us into declaring war
on them so that they could claim to be a victim. It is our
belief that having delivered their ultimatum they never had any intent of a
diplomatic solution. Absa believes that there was no justification for any
compensation to be paid in a situation that at RHY’s option had been completely
avoidable. Our mistake
was in thinking that RHY were more bark than bite and that at some stage common
sense would prevail. Regrettably it has not and RHY have now embarked on a
course of action that like it or not has the potential of significant impact on
the future of Illryiad. I submit to
you that If RHY gets away with this then it sends a clear message that might is
right in Illyriad and you had better hope that you are not in a small alliance. Update: The main RHY sieges arrived in Keppen last night. There are six with siege camps from Legion to Concurpia. None of those sieges of which I am aware at time of writing are against cities belonging to Hugie or Messer. SkB has mentioned one incoming attack against them so far from RHY. |
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Posted By: RHY Press Office
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 15:17
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Jorcle's (ABSA) response above accurately outlines the attacks by ABSA players on RHY positions. ABSA is seeking to justify these attacks by arguing RHY had no claim to the mines that it was occupying, due to their close proximity to SkB cities. RHY reiterates: ABSA had no business in this mining dispute, and our decision to declare war was based not on the control of the mine, but rather on the undisputed fact that ABSA attacked RHY in a completely unprovoked manner. In spite of being confederates, SkB and ABSA are separate alliances, and RHY's dealings with SkB in no way involved ABSA up until the point of the attack on September 24th. This conflict is a result of 1) ABSA interjecting itself into the mining dispute and attacking RHY, and 2) failing to make any attempt to resolve the matter diplomatically: we never received any kind of counter-offer or good faith gesture before 9/30 to resolve the matter diplomatically. These battle reports also confirm that the ABSA attacks were indeed malicious attacks with full intent to destroy. We never received messages from Messer claiming that these attacks were sent in error, or any kind of sincere conciliatory gesture. Messer never made any personal attempt to remunerate for the troops lost. For ABSA, we understand that they feel their actions are justified by RHY's unfair claim to a mine they believe belongs to SkB. RHY disputes that opinion, but even if it were true, it would not justify ABSA attacking RHY. This originally was an issue that SkB and SkB alone should have dealt with, without military assistance from their confederates in ABSA. Now our issue is with ABSA. |
Posted By: Smoking GNU
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 15:18
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Bets, anyone, on the time before RHYs sieges from this morning being crushed? /off to go make popcorn
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Posted By: Smoking GNU
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 15:26
| Oh, and i would also just like to add that the rare mine in question (seeing as we know it's a rare mine, one worth fighting over, i'd like to know just what is in that mine) is quite OBVIOUSLY the sole property of SkB, it being 2 squares away from an SkB member and close to several others as well and RHY had no business being there. They do, however, have the right to try and TAKE it away, except all i see now is RHY throwing temper tantrums cause ppl said "NO!" to this. |
Posted By: Elmindra
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 15:30
| I would just like to ask what is the point of a confederation other than to assist allies in times such as this? Saying ABSA had no right to help their ally is completely wrong and honestly a moot point. |
Posted By: Smoking GNU
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 15:30
As i understand it, SkB called in ABSA support against the blatant aggression from RHY in this matter and this seems well above board, since the 2 alliances are CONFEDERATES, and helping each other is kind of assumed in times of agression from a 3rd party. What is ABSA supposed to do, say "No thanks, they look scary, can't help you on this on"?
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Posted By: Gossip Boy
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 15:38
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I don't know why RHY keep claiming that ABSA had no business with that mine....they did and I would like to ask a simple question from RHY, why were they occupying a mine Which was 2 square away from a SKB city? isn't that a violation of one of RHY's own rules? ------------- Elessar2 [08:34]<Rill> when you've just had part of your brain taken out, you lack a certain amount of credibility <KillerPoodle> I can say anything I like and it is impossible to prove or disprove |
Posted By: vty
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 15:46
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They violated their own rules by occupying that mine, Messer gave them two days warning that he was on his way, the IGM's show that. No one wanted war, it is a darn silly mine. It was more about the idea that they did as they pleased, and show no qualms about it. It was arrogant, and they used their very small troop loss as an excuse to fight. Now every ABSA member is being attacked in multiple ways by the entire alliance, my capital is being sieged, and other towns too. Their war response is well coordinated, seems like they had this brewing for a long time. If you love beer, denounce them! The poor Steamtastic Outlying building is being overrun! xoxo :)
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Posted By: Salararius
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 16:13
So, simply because a somewhat smaller confederated alliance (SkB) of ABSA asks ABSA for help in a matter that RHY will entertain may be justified (certainly is based on RHY's prior published rules of mine ownership) no ABSA member is justified offering any military assistance? Even something as innocuous as sending troops to occupy a location 2 distant from the confederated city and lest there by any confusion at least 10 (maybe more) distant from any RHY city? Would the ABSA member be justified if they warned RHY first? Going with this theory. How do the members of RHY justify intervening in an issue that should be between Messer (Absa), Hugie (Absa) and Demios (RHY, who lost the troops)? How does RHY justify extending invitations to new members to join this unjustified support of Demios? If the world is indeed as RHY outlines, how does RHY justify it's existing member's attacking ABSA cities except based on prior, public, diplomatic agreements? How can it possibly justify new members doing so? Based on the RHY rules of engagement (see above post from the "RHY Press Office"), this is an issue that Demios and Demios alone should deal with. Did anyone else loose troops? Is RHY going to pay compensation for attacking vty's cities? How about Russian Blue? Would RHY like Absa to supply a list so they can set things straight? This should be an issue between isolated players, not alliances, right? Does that rule only apply when RHY (or RHY's members) are the stronger party? RHY seems to have two sets of rules. One for RHY and it's members and one for the rest of Illyriad. That's not unheard of. What seems odd is how clear RHY is making it. Does the Press Office feel the hypocrisy is well hidden? |
Posted By: Buridan
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 16:15
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I have little to add in detail to Jorcle's summing up of the situation in this conflict. We in SkB believe that RHY's reaction is completely out of proportion to the events that led us to this point. Since the introduction of the new resources a couple of months ago, our alliance has been subjected to repeated violations of its territory by RHY armies. In some cases they were taking advantage of small players who could barely form armies of their own much less claim sovereignty on the squares next to their towns. It has been a disheartening struggle to negotiate one settlement only to have more armies appear at different locations at a later date. This latest incident was triggered when it became obvious that RHY were continuously watching our territory for a chance to move onto a rare resource. As we are a small alliance, at that point we had no choice but to ask our allies in Absa for assistance in resolving the matter. I can confirm that at least one RHY army is heading towards our cities. I was told that this attack was just an unfortunate error, but I'm not inclined to trust anything that RHY say at this time. |
Posted By: LordOfTheSwamp
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 16:16
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(I find myself agreeing absolutely and entirely with someone in DLords on a matter of politics?! Whoa! Go Smoking GNU!) At the moment it looks like there are only two issues at stake. Neither of them are a mine. (It's insignificant.) Neither of them are about whether RHY can paint themselves white. (Weirder things have happened, but it doesn't look like anyone's buying it.) They seem to be: 1) How do Consone react in a situation like this? (AFAIK it's the first time a Consone member has been attacked.) 2) What sort of game do "the community" want Illy to be. As joint leader of one of Consone's alliances, and as a long term advocate of peace and consideration and consensual violence in Illy, I have a vested interest in the outcomes in both cases, but probably zero chance to influence either. I await with some trepidation to see what route my favourite game is going to take. ------------- "A boy is building sandcastles on a beach. You go and kick down his castle. You could say that it only reflects how you play with sandcastles. Others may think it reflects who you are." - Ander. |
Posted By: RHY Press Office
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 16:36
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I'd like to respond to several points in Buriden's post:
I too can confirm that this is the case. RHY has put together a detailed contingency plan to counter any attempt by SkB to fight on ABSA's behalf, and one of our members erroneously sent an attack to Buridan's coordinates instead of an ABSA target. In the IGM, our player 1) admits the error, 2) was contrite, 3) reinforced that RHY is not at war with SkB (Buriden can confirm that there are no other inbound attacks to SkB), 4) committed to remunerating Buriden for any damages that will be caused by the errant attack. This approach to conflict resolution is precisely what we were hoping for from ABSA after their attacks on RHY positions, which were never offered.
For Buriden to characterize RHY as solely aggressive in the territorial overlap of RHY and SkB territories in terms of rare resource claims in unfair and unfounded. SkB has repeated engaged in aggressive exodusing, settlement, and annexing of resources into RHY territory. I will stipulate that RHY has been pro-active in competing with SkB for rare resources if Buriden in turn can admit the same of his alliance. ****mod edit to remove links to private messages**** |
Posted By: geofrey
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 16:41
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I don't believe anything positive can come from debating each other's opinions, so please save those for IGM. As I understand it: Absa attacked RHY rare mineral armies twice. No one agreed to any terms. RHY is now declaring war against Absa. My question is what is war? Siege the capitol. Lay waste to all of Absa's armies? Take out the two players responsible? What is RHY's end game? Force Absa to agree to some terms? If so, what terms? ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/45534" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: RHY Press Office
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 17:00
I am in agreement with Geofrey. RHY has stated its position on the matter, and I would say that ABSA has articulated its opposition position well. We are obviously in fundamental disagreement over the matter and at this point, our disagreement appears to be intractable. As for agreeing to terms, RHY is ready to communicate with ABSA directly on terms, should they reach out to us diplomatically, a process that we sought from the onset of this crisis.
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Posted By: SunStorm
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 17:23
Now for some bullet points:
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Posted By: Aurordan
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 17:46
Territorial overlap? It's pretty much surrounded by their cities. That's pretty proactive. Most people would say too proactive.
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Posted By: Sir Bradly
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 17:49
Geofrey, I think it is very unfair to request that an alliance reveal their end goal in a military conflict. Only a complete fool would submit to such a request. Clearly they have a grievance and they have chosen war to solve the problem since prior diplomacy attempts have not worked. Only RHY knows what their objective is and it should stay that way.
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Posted By: scaramouche
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 17:55
To be fair Bradly ive seen that question asked on many a thread such as this, its only natural that when people air their dirty laundry for all to see, it will be asked.
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Posted By: Aurordan
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 17:56
It may have started before the tournament was announced, but there was plenty of time for it to affect how far it was pushed and for alliances to decide to hold back from competition. Also, your bullet points are probably pretty dead on, but I doubt that'll be the end of it.
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Posted By: Grego
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 18:13
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Like most neighbours, Absaroke and Rhyagelle had disputes in the past. We talked and were always able to find fair solution for all sides involved. After Finrod left, new leadership decided to enforce new discipline which only they can call diplomacy. Those who experienced it would use words as blackmail and extortion. I am not going to repeat who did what, why and how, just wanted to ask "RHY press office" simple question: Why you guys hide behind this paravan and do not speak as men ( or women)? Finrod may or may not come back, I would like to know who is in charge in Rhyagelle now. |
Posted By: vty
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 18:48
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Shame! Attacking a Native American tribe on Columbus Day! It's just wrong! (the beer is running out Illy, I can't stop it)
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Posted By: geofrey
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 19:25
Exactly. Don't have a press release and be upset when there are questions. ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/45534" rel="nofollow"> |
Posted By: Neytiri
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 20:18
| I did ask them to wait until after the tournament. . . |
Posted By: Neytiri
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 20:25
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"Players are welcome to focus on this being a war over a mining issue, but it isn't: it's a war over being attacked by another alliance over a issue that didn't even involve them, and their unwillingness to negotiate a diplomatic resolution." It's a war over a mining dispute. It's about RHY looking for control over rare minerals. They weren't able to diplomatically achieve this, so they stationed troops. We were asked to help, so we did. You can say it's not about mining rights, but everything you bring up says it is. If you'd held up your end of the negotiations with SkB, we wouldn't be having this discussion. |
Posted By: Neytiri
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 21:07
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I must admit, I somewhat resent having my eloquence referred to as "missives"! Indeva dear, where are the rest of my messages??? All that great advice. . . I'm throwing pearls at swine, apparently. |
Posted By: ES2
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 23:00
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A lot of wars fought are about resources, yet a lot of reasons for the wars are lies and said to be about diplomatic relationship or hostility by the other party, This happens in real life and in illyriad. There is now a war brewing and both parties should accept that these attacks by RHY were on purpose, by an effort to secure a monopoly. I can sympathize with Rhy for wanting to lock-down resources for their own gain, it's happened with many minerals in illyriad thus far but they should also have been prepared to continue with their advances should the PR in the forums be not so well received. ------------- Eternal Fire |
Posted By: dave83
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2012 at 00:20
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i know where those IGM's went. . we sent them to your friends and relatives, in a concerned effort to have you committed! "throwing pearls at swine?" if by pearls do you mean. . sending poultry recipe's as an official response, while our diplomats are trying in vain to diffuse an ever escalating conflict? those aren't pearls dear. that's called bull. . . t! i personally believe, that the RHY alliance has some of the best diplomats in this game. RHY has always managed to resolve its disputes, and always they were resolved peacefully. Perhaps Skb should remind themselves of that fact and Buridan should retract what he said about RHY's policy towards securing resources. i ask you, if RHY was so aggressive, why is it that all the disputes RHY and skb had in the past were resolved peacefully and whatsmore, resolved in Skb's favour? there is a reason why SkB controls every single mineral resource in the RHY occupied keppen/tor-carrock region. has Skb forgotten that myself and other members of RHY bent over backwards in a futile effort to reach a compromise and share resources with your members? you should be ashamed of saying what you said and it would show great courage by you to admit that in this forum. The crux of this matter is that for far too long the absa alliance has been throwing its weight around. completely indifferent and confident when bullying non-consone members, simply because they know that "Big-brother" has their back if their actions ever got them into trouble. i believe that this widespread culture of bullying, is simply wrong. as do many other's who were wronged by this alliance. and im pleased that now, FINALLY an alliance with a backbone has decided to call you out for doing it. Some would like to paint RHY with that same brush. some would like to call RHY bullies and warmongerers. what i would say to those people is this. . . RHY has had powerful and long standing confederations too, with some of the most powerful and respectable alliances there is. and it would have been only too easy for RHY to abuse that. yet in two years of my playing this game, this is the first time we have ever had to resolve to military action to resolve a dispute. RHY is no bully. and anyone who says otherwise is just talking S..T! |
Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2012 at 00:41
Rhyagelle[RHY]
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Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2012 at 00:44
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Isn't it the custom of Mutual Defense Pacts to support a member when attacked? RHY has declared WAR on a Consone and NO Consone reciprocates?  |
Posted By: The Duke
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2012 at 01:04
------------- "Our generation has had no Great Depression, no Great War. Our war is spiritual. Our depression is our lives." |
Posted By: Sisren
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2012 at 01:38
No, not always. Look to STEEL V ~NC~, you will see that their confeds did not step in. Consone is not an entity as far as the system is concerned. I cannot declare war on Consone via the system, nor can I declare war on Crowfed, or ~N~Fed. These only have meaning to us. Of coarse, if other parties interested would rather see further escalation, that is their business too. Certainly that would show who's who in the scheme of things. Certainly this may become interesting to say the least. ------------- Illy is different from Physics- Reactions are rarely Equal, and rarely the opposite of what you'd expect... |
Posted By: LordOfTheSwamp
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2012 at 01:44
The straight-forward reading of the situation is that you're besieging the cities of several people for no other reason than that people in their alliance quite reasonably intervened to defend their confeds from you attempts to camp a mine you had no claim to. If you were actually much bigger than Absa, then the term bully would apply. As it is, there are better terms. Aggressor, maybe? Of course, the most straight-forward readings in Illy are usually wrong, so it's quite possible that you have some other purpose. I'll admit, though, that without getting into unfounded conspiracy theories, I can't see what it is. Maybe the truth is even simpler. Maybe you just want to steal some cities. Who knows. But your claims to be defending Illy are pretty laughable. ------------- "A boy is building sandcastles on a beach. You go and kick down his castle. You could say that it only reflects how you play with sandcastles. Others may think it reflects who you are." - Ander. |
Posted By: LordOfTheSwamp
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2012 at 01:49
Support and War are not the same thing. I can't speak for any of the bigger alliances in Consone, but I absolutely support Absa. They are the victims of aggression, and they are our confeds - no question we're going to support them. But declaring war just escalates the situation. And I fail to see that escalating this pointless conflict helps anyone. ------------- "A boy is building sandcastles on a beach. You go and kick down his castle. You could say that it only reflects how you play with sandcastles. Others may think it reflects who you are." - Ander. |
Posted By: Myr
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2012 at 02:07
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This is the first time I can remember Rhy using force for anything. I think calling them warmongers is a bit strong and I think a few posters here are forgetting their peaceful and diplomatic past. From what I have read it seems to me that the most recent event is merely the straw that broke the camels back, there have been other issues in the past and the frustration they feel has accumulated. I can understand that, we can all be pushed there at some point. What I'm not sure of is if Absa should be their target or SkB. Good luck to both sides! |
Posted By: HATHALDIR
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2012 at 02:19
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Again i will ask for peace to be brokered between theses two noble alliances. A cessation of hostilities will ensure the mud slinging can stop, and perhaps a return to peace, If Rhyagelle does not want my participation perhaps they can suggest their own candidate! We, Illyriad, wait upon your generosity Sincerely HATHALDIR ------------- There's worse blokes than me!! |
Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2012 at 02:40
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It seems as though we have a soupy escalation. A short time ago armies from VIC attacked and destroyed one of RHY's siege camps. As a close ally (a private confederate if you will) of RHY, Harmless will be taking appropriate steps to support our friends against the 'Broth Brothers' confederation. KP ------------- "This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM "a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill |
Posted By: HATHALDIR
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2012 at 02:51
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I would be correct in saying that VIC has attacked a seige camp, and i assume H?'s reply will be to break any seiges that any of the Consone Confederacy lays on RHY. Consone does not want war! ------------- There's worse blokes than me!! |
Posted By: Salararius
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2012 at 03:06
sorry, couldn't resist  More RHY diplomacy? Are those RHY "games best diplomats" the same people that are posting here? If not, what's up with that? Repeating the same thing while beating someone with a stick doesn't take the games best diplomat. Have the diplomats take a break and post here. Maybe RHY's diplomats are too busy also being some of the game's best generals? Either way, I'd sincerely request that RHY have those "best diplomats in the game" show off here for a while. Then, the smart people RHY was trying to reach when they started this thread can decide how effective those diplomats were/are. Those smart people can reach their own conclusions as to why a peaceful consensus was not reached. There it is. A negotiating duel between some of the "best diplomats in the game" vs. whoever Absa, SkB or Consone can find (stop drinking guys/gals, we might need you). We can start a poll and "the people" shall decide. RHY wins and ABSA pays 70 million gold. ABSA wins and RHY keeps their armies further than 8 Illy distance thingys from SkB and Absa cities. Heck, the prizes should be part of the negotiation. I'm not smart enough to compete with the well thought out demands of some of the games best diplomats. What a wonderful, peaceful, Illyful  , solution? I'd happily pony up gold to read that. <rummages around in pocket, checks shoes, hat, ...> If Absa/SkB/Consone looses and the penalty is gold I'll put up 30 million. How exciting! I know it's a stupid idea. Everyone knows that "the people" are all in Consone!  BTW, I don't have that much gold either, it's mostly belly lint. |
Posted By: Beecks
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2012 at 03:41
Say what you will about RHY's responses, at least they didn't send out anything as bad as mails #4 and #5 . ABSA might as well have said 'attack us; we dare you'. Rightly or wrongly there's a narrative that since its formation Consone has been acting arrogantly towards its neighbors- reinforcing that by taunting a well-respected alliance who has a reasonable (although perhaps not completely legitimate) grievance is remarkably short sited. Hats off to HATHALDIR for working in good-faith to negotiate a settlement. There's always been the fear that super-alliances will lead to out of proportion wars and he's doing what he can to prevent what started as a mining dispute from becoming the big war of 2012. *** mod edit to remove private messages****
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Posted By: vty
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2012 at 04:00
| What?? Acting arrogantly? Give me ten examples if you can. (but don't if you can prove me wrong) |
Posted By: Salararius
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2012 at 04:15
In raw numbers, RHY has 30% more pop than Absa. RHY's pop in and around Keppen outnumbers Absa's by 6:1 (check the map). RHY's pop in and around Keppen outnumbers SkB by greater than 4:1. If every SkB and Absa player in and around Keppen were to fight RHY it would be a 12:5 fight (in RHY's favor). Now, VIC is huge, they are massive. They have nearly double RHY's pop. But they are also spread. That's why the alliances in Consone are in Consone (conjecture alert, how should I know), we are spread around and need each other for regional support. VIC/SkB/Absa about equal RHY in terms of pop in and around Keppen. Check the map, it's fair but that isn't really the point. Vic is an open confederate with Absa. It's clearly not an "escalation" to KP when Deimos' allies within RHY attacked many Absa cities but now it's an "escalation" because a confederate of Absa attacked a siege camp? Should Crow consider it an "escalation" that H? has decided after the fact that they have a "private confederation"? How about the other top alliances in Illy (are there any others left)? I think they may want to decide soon because there may not be a decision to be made later. (or maybe not, who knows what other secrets H? is hiding). A smart guess is that this isn't the only one. There is no such thing as a "private" confederation. It's simple to declare a confederate and I'm sure the very (very, very, very, very) smart guys in H? could have figured it out a second time. If RHY is not running to H? then it's not just the confed that's a secret. H? doesn't seem to think there is a difference between attacking a siege camp, and attacking a city. To rational players, one is an escalation, one is not. To H?, attacking an army on a mineral plot, is the same as attacking a city, which is the same as attacking a siege camp. Thank god there are no WMD in this game. The only way that H? can support RHY is to plant armies on their siege camps to help level Absa cities. So now H? is officially in the business of leveling the cities of the allies of anyone that uses force to contest a rare mineral plot. How long before they get in the business of leveling the cities of the confeds of the allies of anyone that uses force to contest a rare mineral plot. What about anyone with an NAP? I think it's time to trade in those white hats boys. H? is now officially the bad boy of Illy. So, where does this go? In the new Illy, is fighting off a siege an "escalation"? War games are fine, but a war game must end and how can this one end? Will H? continue to expand their secret confederation until they've eliminated or reduced every potential rival in Illy? Will H? work in secret to crush anyone that contests a rare mine anyplace? What is H? fighting for or is it just fighting to remain forever the "strongest"? Has H? reached too far? I think it's clear that H? is hiding behind a paper thin rational to remove a rival. They've actually worked at it for some time now and they're just too impatient to wait for anything better. It doesn't matter if the rival was an actual threat. They feel threatened by anyone that can rival them. Perhaps they aren't "taking an opportunity". RHY has been pushing the rare mine issue against SkB and Absa players near Keppen for some time now. Look at the map, what an ironically awesome place for the "secret" H/RHY confederation (KP's words, not mine) to attack Consone than Keppen? If the actual geographic center of their combined cities isn't in Keppen I'll eat my oak leaves. It's not a secret that SkB and Absa are confeds, it's marked so players and alliances know. Pushing either is liable to start dominoes falling and bring in Consone. Let's be clear, H? is now pledging to actively assist the leveling of cities because of dispute over a mine. Was there ever an issue with the mine and the loss of maybe a thousand troops? Is H? going to level VIC cities now that VIC has attacked an RHY army in support of a confederation? Isn't that the "principle" RHY followed in starting this war (or escalating if you consider two battles over a resource a war) and how it's to be enforce in the new Illy? Oh wait, first H? must ask VIC to pay them 30 million gold. Yep, that's the formula. I know there are a lot of players in H? I know that some are warmongers and will welcome this. But, I believe that some of the players in H? can't agree with this. So, who will control H? moving forward? Does anyone have a vile taste in their mouth? |
Posted By: Gossip Boy
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2012 at 04:39
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I am also curious about H?'s stance in this situation and would like to see them shade some mist over their 'secret confedration(s)? ------------- Elessar2 [08:34]<Rill> when you've just had part of your brain taken out, you lack a certain amount of credibility <KillerPoodle> I can say anything I like and it is impossible to prove or disprove |
Posted By: vty
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2012 at 04:41
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No one can say it any better, nice job! Lost troops over a little mine = leveling my capital?? Cute. Talk about aggressive. This is the first time the game has gotten me disgusted, nice job RHY/H?
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Posted By: Salararius
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2012 at 04:52
Yes, it would have been much more "diplomatic" if Absa had followed course by responding and asking RHY for gold in compensation for the loss of Absa troops. No, you pay me. No, you pay me. No, you pay me. Very "diplomatic". RHY's "diplomacy" was literally to park troops two squares from someone else city (repeatedly and despite diplomatic agreements both publicly and privately not to) and then in response to a predictable battle their diplomacy was literally "pay us or I will not hold back my players". Would you be cool with neighbors like that? You don't find that arrogant in the least but a chicken reference or some archaic flowery language really pushes your buttons? If Absa wasn't going to pay, what substantively different response could Absa give? Semantically, we could have done better, but is that the heart of a negotiation or is it the substance of the offer and response? I am actually curious. Absa did not literally say "attack us" but ultimately I don't see where RHY's "diplomacy" left room for any other answer. Keep in mind that while #5 may have sounded like it proceeded the hostilities, at that time someone was actively attacking Absa members with thieves and scouts and there was a concerted effort to determine who that later did return the names of several RHY members. You clearly have more incidents with members of Consone in mind. Just like any large group, Consone has many members and I don't agree with them all in every aspect of how they communicate. I don't even like the "me" from a few minutes ago sometimes. I'm guessing that no matter how "arrogant" Consone members were towards you they didn't park armies near your city and then when you negotiate the armies removal they didn't keep them there anyways and if you sent troops to the square and warned the Consone member the troops were coming they still don't remove their army and then when the predictable battle occurs they didn't demand you pay or face the wraith of all of Consone? If that happened, and you can prove it, I'll quite Consone. |
Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2012 at 04:58
I am not empowered to speak for all of Crow, but I speak for myself when I say I'd rather we were left out of this discussion, lest people think we were in any way involved.
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Posted By: dave83
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2012 at 06:21
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salararius can spew all the consone propaganda he likes. i believe in actions, not words. Speaking of actions. . . Hathaldir was nobly calling for peace and a de-escalation of violence between RHY and absa. he even offered to mediate between the two alliances. yet all the while, he was fully aware that troops from Vic were already marching against RHY positions on a neutral battlefield. As a major consone leader, can you deny that you knew this was happening? or was this just another "classic consone case" of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing? i guess now you all know, that im not the only one who has noticed this trend. |
Posted By: Neytiri
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2012 at 06:26
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"Say what you will about RHY's responses, at least they didn't send out anything as bad as mails #4 and #5 ABSA might as well have said 'attack us; we dare you'." Oh! Wait! I was asking to wait until after the tournament. You're right. My bad. I thought you could read... The reference to your chicken behavior had to do with the multiple diplomatic attacks you were launching at us, and the blatant attacks on Hugie's armies. I didn't need to say "attack us" because you were ALREADY DOING IT!!! You neglected to mention that before you decided to call it war, Dave83 was attacking Hugie as he was building up sovereignty around his city. In truth, if you had any sense of justice, you might have called it even here, as you probably cost Hugie as many troops as Demios lost. . . but, for you I suppose its the white man's way. Move the natives off their land and exploit the resources they leave behind. For the record (not that it matters to RHY) Hugie was claiming sovereignty ONE square from his cities. ------------- "It is well that their bodies know the heat and the cold; it will make them strong warriors and mothers." - Absaroke elder (from Edward S. Curtis's book 'The North American Indian') |
Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2012 at 06:43
What's the slave trading equivalent of Godwin's law? ------------- "This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM "a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill |
Posted By: HATHALDIR
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2012 at 07:08
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Dave83, i agree with you Salarius is doing ABSA's cause no good whatsoever, and did i know that VIC was launching seige busting armies? I will let the boffins figure out whether i originally posted before armies were sent etc, as i am an advocate for peace not one for apportioning blame. So will RHY ask someone to help broker a peace please, Eagles will do all they can to help. HATHALDIR ------------- There's worse blokes than me!! |
Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2012 at 07:40
| I sense some real outrage that anyone has the temerity to have non-Illy stated relationships (like Soup) outside of Soup. It must be a terrible surprise to an alliance to realize that their Soup-based arrogance is met with meaningful resistance. How dare anyone challenge the Almighty Broth! |
Posted By: Grego
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2012 at 08:07
It wasn't real surprise since big players from H?,~N~, and ~KV~ joined Rhyagelle just before they started hostile actions against us. Tournament surely wasn't the reason for their move... |
Posted By: Neytiri
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2012 at 08:35
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That was funny, KillerPoodle!!! I was referencing Native Americans, actually, not slave traders, but I'm sure there's a Godwin's equivalent there, too. Oh heck! Have it your way. We'll call them Rhyagellzis from now on. |
Posted By: LordOfTheSwamp
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2012 at 08:52
Ah - H? are speaking! It seems H? are often making comments like this... [03:48]<Kumomoto> H? ALWAYS defends against the bullies... (from GC, August 25th). So, presumably this is where H? say that they will help Consone contain RHY's aggression, right...?
Ah no, this is where they decide that breaking siege camps sent by a blatant aggressor is a terrible crime to which they will stand up... or something.
Not the first time. But certainly disgusted is a good word.
Ah well, looks like we now have a foundation for a conspiracy theory. Nothing I can do about it. H? will do what they want, and we're in the hands of weightier folk than me. ------------- "A boy is building sandcastles on a beach. You go and kick down his castle. You could say that it only reflects how you play with sandcastles. Others may think it reflects who you are." - Ander. |
Posted By: Jasche
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2012 at 09:35
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Members of the confederacy of Consone have looked at the information contained in the missives declared by Rhyagelle. From what we can see Rhyagelle have occupied a mine close to one of Absa’s confederates. Absa have responded with a warning followed by an occupation to secure the mine. Rhyagelle have demanded compensation and retaken the square, so Absa have again removed the offending army. Rhyagelle have demanded further compensation with a threat to escalate to war. Absa have not agreed with this and we find ourselves at a stage where Rhyagelle are sieging Absa cities as they see fit and Absa are breaking sieges but not attacking Rhyagelle. Absa have asked for support only in defence of their cities – they do not seek to respond to all out war by sieging any of Rhyagelle’s cities. We do not, as a confederacy, police the communications between members and other alliances as we have explained in previous posts elsewhere on the forums. As a confederacy we do not condone an approach which belittles or demeans other players or alliances and so do not support Absa members in responding to Rhyagelle in any derisive way. However this is rhetoric and you will note that I choose also to ignore any rhetoric or lack of respect from others within and outside this forum directed at Consone. With that in mind I am focussing entirely on paragraph 1 and what has happened as a process. Consone as a confederacy believes the following:
In light of this Consone members will respond as follows:
As others on either side have become involved in the war I now ask that Rhyagelle use Hathaldir and myself as direct contacts to broker peace. We look forward to hearing your current terms for peace and we will continue to push for a peaceful resolution to this issue which, to reiterate, is not, in our opinion a reason for an all out war. ------------- 'The Welfare of the People is the Highest Law' http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/14315" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: Drejan
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2012 at 12:32
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People is focusing on mines, but i actually think the mine is not the problem, i'm sure RHY are not worried too much about it. If they risk a war with Absa and maybe with Consone something is wrong with what Absa did or with the message they've sent. I think things would look lot different if we could read mails...
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Posted By: Mogul
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2012 at 13:17
Hathaldir, everyone who is not completely blind or stupid knows that. Unfortunately RHY with H? backup are the ones desperately trying to find excuses for war and reasons to attack Consone.
LOL... siege camps bombarding Absa towns are neutral battlefields? Unbelievable... |
Posted By: Grego
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2012 at 14:06
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Beeing Absaroka cheef, I have obligation to protect my members. RHY did not choose to siege Messer and Hugie, which they accused for aggression. Instead, they decided to pick every Absaroka in Keppen, some of which never dealt with any confrontation in Illy, and play this game peacefully as lambs. I was forced to seek help from our allies, only to prevent extermination of our besieged members because we were already engaged in latest tournament, and I couldn't be sure that we can hold against such odds by ourselves. In attempt to ensure better chances for peace, I warned my members that any military aggression against RHY cities or armies on their territory, will be considered treason, and those who commited such actions will be expelled from Absaroke. After 70 M gold demand, none of RHY leadership ( whoever that might be ), tried to negotiate peace terms, and I am still waiting for their response.... We do not recognise their contribution request, but also not asking gold and apology from them. Our only demand is that all hostilities between us stop, so we can eventually negotiate distribution of Keppen resources in more civilised manner |
Posted By: RHY Press Office
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2012 at 14:47
Rhyagelle's choice of targets were not personal, but strategic. Considering that the act of aggression by ABSA to attack our position on the mine completely unprovoked moved us to develop a battle plan with a theatre in Keppen. RHY has not targeted low-population members, but rather have made target choices based on regional ABSA leadership and military capability. For as much as Messer and Hugie were the ABSA players who led the unprovoked attacks, it is ABSA leadership who bears the blame for failing to address the issue diplomatically.
This is patently false. As can be seen from Indeva's IGMs, he made a good faith effort -- twice -- to resolve the issue before 9/30 diplomatically. RHY never received any constructive response from ABSA leadership pertaining to Indeva's restitution demands -- not even an attempt to negotiate that settlement. There was ample time given, and ABSA chose to ignore us, prompting our alliance to escalate our response. "tried to negotiate peace terms, and I am still waiting for their response" Can Grego produce an authentic IGM where he made a legitimate effort to negotiate peace terms, either before or after 9/30? We have received no such communication. To wit, the only official responses we received from ABSA after 9/30 were the taunts posted on the RHY public forum from Neytiri. These posts alone characterized for RHY leadership what ABSA's response was to our concerns over the unprovoked attacks. It was clear to us that they did not take the attacks seriously, did not take RHY seriously, and that they would do nothing to resolve the issue. RHY could not allow another alliance to behave with this level of malice against our positions without a response.
I have said time and time again -- RHY has no rare resource disputes with ABSA. ABSA is not SkB -- they are, as far as we know, separate, sovereign alliances. It is true that we have had disputes with SkB over rare resource plots, but as of this moment, there are no rare resource disputes even with SkB. The mine in question was vacated days before our military response to ABSA. So, for Grego and the rest of ABSA leadership to continue to characterize this conflict as a mining dispute between RHY and ABSA is simply "spin." The issue was the wanton, unprovoked attacks by ABSA players on occupying RHY forces in a dispute that they had no involvement in. From 10/10 on, RHY leadership has been ready to listen to ABSA should they choose to reach out and begin discussions on cessation of hostilities. To this point, however, we have received no direct response from ABSA leadership. And we will not negotiate on the forums or through mediators/multi-national talks. It will be done one-on-one between our respective alliances. I'd also like to respond to Jasche:
RHY has never had any major dealings with VIC, and up until this point, no issues with Consone. By not declaring war on SkB -- who we all now know were indeed conspirators in calling on ABSA to attack RHY -- we narrowed this conflict between ourselves and ABSA, based only on their attacks and lack of response to rectify the problem. Yet, Invictus has attacked us in an unprovoked manner -- again we have never been at odds with VIC. That act has now escalated this conflict to involve more alliances. If all of Consone attacks RHY, it will only widen the conflict. It is important that Consone understands this before sending any more forces to attack RHY positions. Doing so will not bring this conflict to a conclusion -- it will only lead Elgea closer to a world war. The only way this conflict can be resolved is if ABSA reaches out to us directly to discuss terms.
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Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2012 at 14:50
H? will treat any further Soup interference in RHY sieges as an act of war and respond appropriately. Have a nice day. KP ------------- "This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM "a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill |
Posted By: Jasche
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2012 at 15:02
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I have asked for your peace terms using IGM and on here and you have stated them on the forum. So, I will repeat them back and ensure I have the right understanding. If we stand our troops down and Absa do likewise you will withdraw your sieges and start talks with Absa? Grego is interested in having this discussion, that much is clear. I will ask all troops within the confederation to stand down immediately (including Absa) providing you change your diplomatic status from war to neutral and recall all sieging troops. At that point we can have a discussion about what has taken place and come to a reasonable agreement. I cannot however ask for a recall of troops and no hostilities whilst siege engines are hitting Absaroke cities. There must be peace on the battlefield first. Also, I can not agree that you started a clear cut one on one attack on Absaroke without any help nor planned support from other alliances. For our part, I have stated the involvement of Consone members as a confederate of Absaroke clearly. If you can agree to withdraw we will do likewise and then Absa and yourselves can talk. Please confirm and we can begin bringing this to an end in a quick and decisive way. ------------- 'The Welfare of the People is the Highest Law' http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/14315" rel="nofollow"> |
Posted By: RHY Press Office
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2012 at 15:20
Jasche, with all due respect, Rhyagelle is not at war with Invictus or Consone. As I have stated numerous times, we are not going to negotiate terms on this forum, nor are we going to negotiate with mediators. While I'm sure you recognize the expediency in avoiding further Consone attacks on RHY positions (in light of H?'s declarations), I say respectfully that you, nor anyone associated with Consone, can act as an honest broker in mediation -- just as an H? diplomat would not be able to serve as an unbiased mediator to the contrary. And I have not stated any terms for peace on this thread. I submit to you that for the sake of not widening this conflict, Invictus and Consone should stay out of the dispute between ourselves and ABSA. While I cannot speak for H?, I am certain that if VIC and any Consone forces were to stand down, they would reciprocate. After all, they did not involve themselves until an outside alliance interfered in the dispute.
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Posted By: Vanerin
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2012 at 15:28
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RHY Press Office, Could you please explain the difference between Absa + confederates supporting each other and RHY receiving support from H?? You said that Absa helping SkB (who are in confederation with each other) was interfering on a problem that does not involve them. You also say the same thing of Absa's confederates providing support. Is this not exactly the same thing H? is doing to help your alliance. Well, I guess there are two differences: 1) Consone has expressly said to only defend cities and not attack any RHY towns. 2) Absa has official diplomatic ties stated on their alliance page. Are there any other differences that I am missing? How is H? getting involved in this situation not interfering when you deem that Absa's confederates are interfering? ~Vanerin
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Posted By: RHY Press Office
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2012 at 15:40
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Hi, Vanerin. I would argue that there are major differences. First off, to clarify, RHY and H? do indeed have official diplomatic relations, as we have retained a NAP for some months now. Agreeing to the NAP was a long and rigorous process, as Harmless? does not form NAPs arbitrarily and are deliberate in their diplomatic agreements. Our discussion of confederating began well before the 9/30 diplomatic deadline and our 10/10 assault, and our relationship has been evolving for some time. While it's true that our diplomacy page may not show a confederation, the fact remains that our alliances have grown increasingly close throughout 2012. Second, H? did not aid RHY in our assault of ABSA targets in any manner, nor did H? attack ABSA -- or any other target -- at the behest of RHY. No one in ABSA will be able to present combat reports that show H? forces intermingled with ours prior to VIC's attack on our sieges last night. H?'s involvement is a response not to ABSA, but to VIC attacking us. Remember: RHY did not attack ABSA first; ABSA launched an unprovoked attack on us. RHY responded, opening up an RHY/ABSA conflict. Now, VIC has escalated this mano e mano war by attacking us. H? has responded in turn. If more Consone affiliates involve themselves, then I would expect a further expansion. This is why I have said above that only ABSA can solve the conflict. The conflict began with their attack, and it will end with their willingness to reach out to RHY leadership in one-on-one talks. Again: if Consone and VIC continue to attack, this conflict could quickly transcend the ABSA/RHY issue, leading to a world war.
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Posted By: Arian
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2012 at 15:55
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hmm ------------- 'Do you want ice with that?' |
Posted By: Vanerin
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2012 at 15:55
It appears that H? is not stepping in because of VIC, but because they are an ally with you. I am not sure I follow you on the unprovoked attack thing either. Absa responded to a confederates request for aid. I do not know if you requested aid or not (I think that doesn't matter), but H? has said they will be coming to your aid. Again, how is that different?
~Vanerin |