NC crusade vs. STEEL
Printed From: Illyriad
Category: The World
Forum Name: Politics & Diplomacy
Forum Description: If you run an alliance on Elgea, here's where you should make your intentions public.
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=4173
Printed Date: 17 Apr 2022 at 14:30
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: NC crusade vs. STEEL
Posted By: Taron
Subject: NC crusade vs. STEEL
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 00:53
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I know almost absolutely NOTHING about this situation but I'm going to throw my two sense in there and let ya all know what I guess should be done.
According to what I know NC has been sending diplo attacks against STEEL. First problem is that I WAS NOT informed so therefor NC has to be destroyed, according to the Aesir crusade vs. TLR forum. According to that forum, if someone is to declare an act of war (attacks, diplos, ext.), whom ever declared it is supposed to be destroyed. The reason is because according to the Illyriad community any hostile actions mean the complete ANNIHILATION of the alliance being attacked in any ways.
Even if later there is an explanation to the reason behind
the hostile actions, the community NOT involved still get to create a reason
(which being part of the community I believe that NC is trying to annihilate
STEEL) just like in the Aesir crusade vs. TLR. So according to Illyriad LAW NC
should be annihilated or everyone should come to reason sense they have
declared such actions FOR NO REASON except the ones I'm making up cause I can,
that is if I am making them up but HEY! We should listen to a guy who knows
nothing about what’s going on! I thought if that works in the Aesir crusade vs
TLR forum, why not try it again with you know... No support at all but using
slander, misleading information, completely bias and completely spammed with
nonsense. Because well… Nice word Taron….. poo, that’s how Illyriad politics
work! In the Aeisr crusade vs TLR (which TLR thought they won for some odd
reasons unknown ------------- I am Responsible for what I say. I Am not responsible for what you understand. |
) that’s all that happened so have at it Illyriad! Someone who
knows nothing fueling a pointless fire that no one should be involved in but
the people who are involved.Replies:
Posted By: Faenix
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 01:00
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Here! Here! Burn them at the stake! When has knowing absolutely nothing about a situation ever stopped anybody from having and expressing an opinion. ;)
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Posted By: The Electrocutioner
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 01:03
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Whoa, Taron, down boy! I don't know what drugs you're on, but I want some!
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Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 01:09
| well im just dizzy and confused but i rather hear of how the war is going than all the verbal junk, please tell the illy peeps about all the fun u having and what strategies are working! most of all have fun! this is a chess game and conflict is important part missing from gameplay |
Posted By: Aurordan
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 01:17
| TLR got help because they had friends willing to stick their necks out for them against a numerically superior alliance. STEEL it seems does not. Someone should get cotters in here because there are a lot of sour grapes in that OP. |
Posted By: bansisdead
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 01:23
Sour grapes make whine not wine... ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/124253" rel="nofollow"> 
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Aurordan wrote:Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 03:34
| This is fun. Why would anyone interfere? |
Posted By: Gemley
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 03:43
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I just hope no new players read the threads concerning STEEL vs NC and think this immature behavior is acceptable. ------------- �I do not love the bright sword for it's sharpness, nor the arrow for it's swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend� - J.R.R. Tolkien |
Posted By: abstractdream
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 04:29
TLR is an alliance. As an alliance, we do not "think" we won the "crusade" vs. us. Maybe some individuals, within or without the alliance made some statement or other but that is not the "official view." Here is what I think, not official but pretty darn close: TLR was insulted and harangued by the leader of TRO in GC for all to see. He then proceeded to declare war and send attacks. We responded, defended and then we went on the offence. TRO asked for terms. The next thing I know, Aesir is declaring and attacking. Within a short time our allies stood up for us and with that the attacks ended. The first series of events was a clear win. The second set of events was at best a draw. Taron, you are clearly bitter about the reaction you got from the community in your endeavor. I guess that is understandable but I don't see it as the community's failure. I would hazard to guess that if you had played your hand differently, perhaps bringing your friends in from the beginning things would have ended better for you. Acting unilaterally rarely ends well, in Illy and in RL. Most of the community have no warm feelings for TLR but turned on you anyway. I bet you never saw that coming. Honestly, neither did I. ------------- |
Posted By: Brids17
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 05:12
Kind of ironic given the 400 confederations they have...
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Posted By: (EOM) Harry
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 16:30
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Right guys, i'm going to say something really controversial here and it most likely will flag up a lot of hate toward nCrow. Lets just keep the hate (if any) directed at me and not the alliance. I personally (amongst others) would love to break the sieges inbound on GIM, he is a great friend of mine here and a former member, nCrow also have a "no siege in our backyard" policy where those sieges we deem unnecessary and arbitrary, we break. (Point of reference: any breaking of sieges by nCrow as a sole act will never be a declaration of war!) Unfortunately, it has come to the point in illyriad where any action as such by nCrow (mostly due to our size and the crow confederacy) we will be deemed as aggressive and "warmongering" and will promptly be scolded by the community for some reason or another. This leaves me frustrated as i have to watch as GIM is attacked by NC and will thus suffer damage at the hands of something which i believe to be unjust. Please don't excuse this as words and cowardice. I as well as much of nCrow are just fed up with trying to help out friends or give support to an alliance and then time and time again battered down by words and falsities. If i'm honest guys we really have to get a grip of this. We cannot just have a common law ruling on each individual case and point. In my mind there needs to be clear rules of combat and justifications for war (maybe even set in statutes) so that not only do alliances know how the community will act (even though opinions may disagree it may not overwhelmingly stop the war) whilst also allowing an alliance/alliances to check the "war constitution" to digress whether they are in the right to declare war/support a player/alliance and to what extent. Thanks guys! Harry
< id="_npwlo" ="applicationpwlo" height="0">------------- Fool's watch the land when the problem is in the heart. |
Posted By: G0DsDestroyer
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 17:18
Uh..yeah, of course it would, and we didn't want to gang up on you, and kill you all, which has been said by me already no need to say this other than to remind you. Seems this comment is telling me that you would want a bigger alliance to gang up with a bunch of larger ones to kill a small one, to be smart. lolololololololol
Come now Harry, war is messy and rules are not binding in war, anything can happen and will happen, no matter what people think. ------------- http://live.xbox.com/en-US/MyXbox/Profile?gamertag=G0DsDestroyer" rel="nofollow - Tia mi aven Moridin isainde vadin |
Posted By: (EOM) Harry
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 17:25
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I know Gods it was just an example/idea. I just feel that we need some more outlines rather than "Hey, you're not allowed to help player x thats mean on alliance y" And you've expressed my feelings of hypocrisy and swaying agendas in your earlier quote reference :D ------------- Fool's watch the land when the problem is in the heart. |
Posted By: Taron
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 17:41
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Abstractdream, When TLR changed their alliance page saying that they have “Struck fear into the hearts of her enemies.” The spy that infiltrated Aesir and got the wide message to Aesir members must not be able to read, for we decided to continue our fight until we were wiped off the map (As G0dsDestroyer stated earlier in a different post…..). So we really didn’t fear TLR in that war, we knew we could die when they called for friends, yet we stood our ground. Saying they ‘struck’ fear in us is kind of insulting if you consider it a draw anyways. That’s like saying TLR Stood its ground when every alliance that joined backed out, leaving TLR alone, I was suddenly getting a message about peace…. ------------- I am Responsible for what I say. I Am not responsible for what you understand. |
Posted By: Taron
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 17:41
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(EOM) Harry I understand exactly what you are saying which is why in the previous forum i thought sense the community stated in assorts that Aesir somehow became a police of Illyriad, and the post I made stating that if an aggressive action is done without MY knowledge that they therefore have to be criticized, falsified and threaten to be destroyed. Sense their actions were not told to ME, I am doing what I said. There are talkers and doers in the world RL and Illyriad. I do what I say, as everyone is seeing. Majority of Illyriad are just talkers, like when H? Took out the two alliances, all there was was talk, did anyone do anything? Let me see..... They Talked.... I have nothing against H?, they did what they want and they got what they wanted. I respect them because they made a choice and went with it. Power to them. As I see there is no Illyriad wide law (like worldwide but Illy ways) about war. There is No UN in Illyriad, no branch of justice, there is nothing. Yet during the Aesir vs TLR war (not a crusade, there was no religion or defense/advancement of an idea behind it, unless you count wanting A person to be punished) had been criticized, falsified and threaten to be destroyed because we did not announce why we went to war to the ENTIRE world of Illyriad so sense I was not informed then this forum had to be made. ------------- I am Responsible for what I say. I Am not responsible for what you understand. |
Posted By: Myr
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 18:50
Edited to put in spaces, I hoped it worked.
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Posted By: Daufer
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 19:30
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It always pays to have powerful friends, but I would have to say that nCrow jumping into a fight that apparently even Gimardoran doesn't take too seriously on account of friendship between two people would be rather high-handed and arbitrary. Has Gimardoran actually asked for aid? If so then by all means, assist him, but be honest about it. If he hasn't requested outside help then one would presume he is either working the situation out diplomatically or he feels that STEEL can handle NC on their own (and good for them), in which case an nCrow officer deciding to squash attacks against Gim would be grossly unfair to the other side. After all, as an officer of a Crow confederacy you are in a sense untouchable: no one will risk a war with all eight (9,10,11...?) of you if one chooses to intervene. If Gimardoran is in trouble he has many, many confederates to draw on. Given that a number of ranking members of STEEL are or have been officers in other major alliances and that Gim is a popular figure in global chat with many connections I am sure he will receive plenty of material support quietly behind the scenes... that is how war is waged in Illy.
How about this for a policy: if alliance A wants to attack alliance B of approximately equal size they go on the forum and state "We don't like King Blah's attitude/body odor/land claim/etc., and we'll fight until he quits his alliance/loses this city/cedes this mine to us. We will not attack players under x population unless they send attacks/diplos at us or alliance B attacks our small players. If King Blah or his alliance leadership want to negotiate other terms they can post here". If King Blah thinks he needs help, let him call on his confederates openly. If Alliance A needs help against those confederates let him call on his own for aid. Everybody else, either join those alliances if you want to join in or keep the hell out of it. This isn't a newb being bullied here.
I started this game in Havoc Unleashed, was involved in my first war within a matter of months, and it pretty much involved us getting curbstomped by a smaller alliance with a lot of silent partners feeding them equipment and materials until our guildmaster sent Lorre and AmrothAnguireal IGMs asking them to break the sieges. That war was essentially a private grudge match between our guild leader and a member he had booted who happened to be the alt of an officer in another alliance. It seems to me that most of the fighting here in Illy revolves around "we think so&so is a jerk, he meddles in our affairs, he treated us badly" or whatever. Some people either belong to powerful alliances or have many confederates or just socialize a lot in GC, and end up being above reproach. Others open their mouth once and are eradicated.
I don't hate on nCrow, I certainly don't hate on Harry (thanks for those weapons you gave me during the KT/havoc war) and I have nothing against Gimardoran, but for crying out loud let people fight if they want! That is what drives people out of this overgrown chatroom that is Illyriad, the hypocrisy of "this is a sandbox and everyone has the right to play however they want unless I don't like the way you play".
TLDR:
Harry, if Gim needs the cavalry to come running to the rescue he'll say so.
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Posted By: geofrey
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 19:33
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Daufer, great post. ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/45534" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: Arakamis
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 19:39
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Show me one word/sentence from that message indicating an annihilation! Maybe this part ( I guess I can share my message with public )
 :
There is nothing indicating annihilation here though, only telling them that they may be chosen as valid targets unless they quit their alliance. Having said that all, kudos to TLR for manipulating the community in such a good way to their cause. They did hell of a good job in that. We all learned our lessons i guess.
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Posted By: Princess Xanax
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 19:56
I could not agree more!! |
Posted By: Morphies
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 19:56
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They closed the other post so i will post my reply here.. From my understanding in all of this ~NC~s reasoning behind these attacks against STEEL is quite immature.. and let me give you a few reasons why that is so.. 1) You falsified information saying that we were going to attack you and had it posted in another thread.. you could easily falsify any information just to "justify" your attacks but you can not.. 2) you said you heard rumors about us planning to attack you.. It seems your "informant" is either not well informed or is just making it up to give you the excuse to attack us.. There was no talk about STEEL planning an attack.. even when we were being diploed you never crossed our minds of possible attackers.. If we had been planning an attack against ~NC~ then we could have just pointed the finger at you with no proof.. 3) You have a problem with Gim so you should have taken it up with GIM.. you attacked people that had nothing to do with your little petty hatred for Gim.. 4) You attacked STEEL with NO proof of any of those accusations you previously made.. Now i DO NOT speak for STEEL.. i speak for myself.. They have no knowledge of this.. Another thing.. Do you have any idea why there is politics in games like Illyriad? Its quite simple.. some people are Civil.. politics keeps us from living like barbarians..
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Posted By: Faenix
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 19:59
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Arakamis, I think what you're missing is that TLR was a spin-out from ~N~. We had a shared history. It wasn't like they were just some random alliance that was being attacked and some other random member of the community joined in. EF was an alliance mate at one point, TLR was originally going to be a ~N~ confederate but due to past history it didn't turn out that way. So, when TLR was attacked by a larger alliance after just finishing with another fight that they didn't choose, and their members were being threatened, we offered our assistance because of the shared history. Some of the posts here make it sound like TLR was begging the whole world for help, and that wasn't the case at all. They were willing to fight it out alone if needed. There's nothing to stop STEEL's various confeds from entering on their side. That's what confeds are for, right?
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Posted By: Faenix
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 20:09
First off, there's no requirement for us to provide anybody proof. We volunteered our reasons to the community as an act of good faith. You can take them or leave them as you desire. Second, the "attacks" so far on STEEL were minor diplomat missions. The first, larger wave of diplos were focused purely on STEEL leadership. The second wave sent at random members of the alliance was predominantly 500 assassins, sabos or thieves (some were moderately larger, due to the likelihood of larger runes being in place, etc.). That is not enough to cause any serious damage and was done purely for the psychological impact of realizing that your leadership is inept and can't protect you. We have no intention of causing serious harm to rank and file members of STEEL, the brunt of our actions will certainly be focused. In this context, serious harm would refer to sieges more than anything else, as that's the only truly damaging sort of attack. 500 diplo "attacks" are a joke. In fact your lives will probably be better once we are done. You can thank us later.
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Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 20:14
Wait ... NC can beat on Gim and that is just letting people fight if they want. But if an nCrow player happens to want to jump on a couple of sieges against Gim because of feelings of friendship, that is somehow a violation of the above principle? I agree with Harry -- I am not sure I'm all that happy about having to tell my players that everyone gets to fight except them.
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Posted By: bansisdead
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 20:23
there's one. ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/124253" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Arakamis
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 20:33
I was expecting this. Death as in Failure, Fall etc.Come on mates, be serious. See: http://www.scholastic.com/resources/article/the-development-of-abstract-thinking/" rel="nofollow - http://www.scholastic.com/resources/article/the-development-of-abstract-thinking/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstraction" rel="nofollow - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstraction |
Posted By: Aurordan
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 20:39
...Seriously?
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Posted By: Arakamis
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 20:44
Well, that I can understand and thank you. There is/was absolutely no need to find another excuse (manipulating an IGM for e.g.) for helping your friends.
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Posted By: Princess Xanax
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 20:57
| Do I really need to remind people we are playing a game here? I personally don't want "real world politics" in a game I am playing for fun. And Illy, as it is, is meant to be played however we see fit with the tools we are provided- even if we wish to play as "barbarians". Pick whatever labels you wish, but I am here to have fun and escape real life every once in a while. If that means I am militaristic in my gaming style, that is allowed. This is not the real world. If I attack or diplo your city, or you attack or diplo mine, we aren't really losing anything. It's my, and a whole lot of other people's, idea of fun. If you don't like it, I suggest you choose a different game where you can chat and snuggle with each other all day and have no challenges whatsoever. |
Posted By: Daufer
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 21:28
I didn't say he can't fight. I said if he is so keen to jump in either leave nCrow and join STEEL for the duration or confed with him and wait for Gimardoran to ask for aid. Until then it isn't nCrows business... or Harry's... unless nCrow wants to arbitrarily declare war on NC. That would be grossly unfair though since nCrow is about 3x as large as NC whereas NC and STEEL are a pretty even match.
That's the point Rill. NO ONE gets to fight because they are all wetting themselves over the probability of a powerful outsider stepping in and announcing that, even though the war has nothing to do with them, they have chosen Side A and will not let it lose. It's kind of like in school where you think so and so is a jerk but no one dares say anything because his brother is in a gang. If you are in a large alliance confederation, or make friends with them in chat, you have carte blanche to do whatever you like.
I personally hate war, and if attacked I would be rather pissed, but if I think I can deal with the situation diplomatically I'll do that. If I can't negotiate peace but think I can deal with the military threat I will do that. If I can't do either then I'll call on allies until the balance of power is in my favor. If my allies won't help me then I will appeal to anyone who will listen for help, but shame on my fickle friends. Until then kindly pick your own fights, thank you.
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Posted By: Vanerin
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 21:36
Princess Xanax, the same could be said to you. If you do not like the chat and snuggles, there are plenty of war games out there. Am I saying that there should never be a fight? Not at all. But I don't think that one group needs to push the other out of the land. If there are people that wish to fight, then they should fight. Those that wish to trade, should trade. Those that wish to chat and snuggle, should chat and snuggle. ~Vanerin
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Posted By: Aurordan
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 21:47
See, this is kind of a strawman though. Because what if someone who wants to fight is drawn in to conflict with someone who wants to snuggle? I would say that a trader or magic specialist should be expected to be able to fight, just like a soldier has to trade and maintain spells to support his armies, or carry out some reasonable degree of diplomacy. What seems to be going around nowadays is the belief that because a player might enjoy other aspects of the game, they should somehow be immune to a war they would otherwise have to fight. You may have guessed from my tone that I disagree with this idea, but that's what I'm seeing.
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Posted By: Princess Xanax
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 22:00
You have missed my point and chose not to quote other pertinent parts of my post. We are all given tools to use and play with as we wish - if someone wants to snuggle and chat so be it. What I have a problem with is when others get their panties in a wad when there is conflict, go crying in GC, and do their best to quash conflict. I don't try to control how others play this game, but some do. Those that get upset when there is conflict, and try to control others, need to go where there is no conflict if that's the kind of game they so obviously prefer. My preference is to fight NPCs and build up my commanders that way. But if I am needed by my alliance or confeds, I am there for them within reason. It adds variety to an otherwise slow moving game. And it is FUN. |
Posted By: Vanerin
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 22:03
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Aurordan, If it involuntarily interferes with someone's reasonable enjoyment of the game, I am not cool with it. In your example of a "friendly" involved with a fight with a "militant", if the "friendly" did something to provoke the attack, the interference is not involuntary. But if a "militant" wants to pick on some "friendly" (without good cause) that interferes with the "friendly"'s enjoyment of the game. What if we flip your example? You say "that a trader or magic specialist should be expected to be able to fight." Should a fighter be expected to snuggle? ~Vanerin
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Posted By: Faenix
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 22:10
Fighters across Illyriad already deal with snuggling on a regular basis since it happens in GLOBAL Chat day in day out. How many snugglers have to deal with fighting on a daily basis?
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Posted By: Vanerin
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 22:12
Hey. I gots an easy solution for you. "Block in chat" Do you have a similarly easy solution for friendly people being attacked? ~Vanerin
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Posted By: Faenix
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 22:13
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http://www.facebook.com/FarmVille |
Posted By: Vanerin
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 22:14
| Thank you for clarifying Princess Xanax. I think I understand what you were saying better. |
Posted By: Vanerin
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 22:14
"Block in chat" does not require that one leave the game...
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Posted By: geofrey
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 22:19
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TO WAR! ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/45534" rel="nofollow"> |
Posted By: Faenix
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 22:21
Nor does "Block in chat" remove all the snuggling. It's impossible to block all of the snugglers. They pop up all over the place. It's like some sort of contagious virus. So unfortunately neither solution is without its faults. I have to live with snuggling. Snugglers have to live with war. These are the sacrifices that we make to share a community.
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Posted By: Garth
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 22:21
Sorry, imo this is a terrible argument. The claim of having to "deal with snuggles" (meaning you have to *observe other people typing the words* "so-and-so snuggles so-and-so") is akin to saying that everyone has to "deal with war/fighting" every time there's a siege announcement in GC. So, by your logic, we all deal with fighting on a daily basis. Also, there may a contingent lost in this discussion: fighters who like to snuggle/snugglers who like to fight...
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Posted By: bansisdead
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 22:33
against snuggles!!! ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/124253" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Myr
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 22:40
So people who don't like all the lovey-dovey shouldn't use chat? There is only one global and we all have to share it. Those same people shouldn't use there troops because others don't like it? The devs provided them in the game with the ability to use them, but we shouldn't use them because some poeple don't like it. Here's a suggestion, if you want to play the game the way you want to, then you need to extend the courtesy to others and you need to be prepared if those two ideas come into conflict with each other. |
Posted By: Taron
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 22:43
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Like I said earlier, like at the begging of this forum... The Very First post... Is I Have NO Idea what is going on but that a war is/has been declared (you know sense of whenever they are now at war as i found out like 5 minutes ago). SO. What I am getting at is the Declarer (NC) is to be criticized, falsified, bias and threatened. When Aeisr didn't tell Illyriad we were declaring war and not giving our reason out on TLR (which we were forced to do for the Illyriad community to be happy), we were harassed and criticized. Therefore, Sense no Member of NC told me of this war, they are therefore then supposed to be criticized and harassed. Otherwise I must be crazy to see that this is considerd odd that declaring war is wrong uunless you attack then declare. NOTES TAKEN I have taken notes and now know that to successfully start a war I should do diplo attacks THEN declare War! ------------- I am Responsible for what I say. I Am not responsible for what you understand. |
Posted By: bansisdead
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 22:47
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Taron, NC gave reasons in the forum a few days ago then declared war today? I do wish to state that I neither agree or disagree with either side :)
I am 'amblivious' ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/124253" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Trilllian
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 23:13
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Frankly, I find the petulance and childishness displayed in this thread to be disturbing. But no more disturbing than the level of intolerance and bigotry I've read so far. "I hate snugglers because they snuggle!" "I hate war-mongers because they declare war!" So much black-white-thinking that the mind boggles. I'm fairly confident that the majority of the people in this thread, and on GC for that matter, know who I am. I huggle/snuggle/hug with the best of them. I shout RAWR from time to time. I love chocolate and wait in line for cookies (or steal them). I have a front-row seat in the GC Gutter, and I've popped vats of popcorn. I've been in the top 10 in NPC killers on the Illy Board charts (7 days, 15 days and 30 days) for nearly 6 weeks now. I kick NPC butt and I enjoy the heck out of it. I help with the leadership of 2 alliances. I enjoy exchanging messages with my friends, visiting with folks on chatzy and on Skype, trading with my trading buddies and generally having FUN. So, yeah, there's a war been declared. Okay. But is there any good served with dredging up old resentments and picking the scabs on barely healed wounds? Some folks take Illly very seriously, and that's their business. Others couldn't care less what happens in between their visits to the game. And many more fall somewhere in between. Each group is entitled to play the game, snuggle or not, declare war or not, gather resources and engage in global trading, or whatever else they choose to do with their time in Illy. The point is--we are all here for our own reasons and the fact that some may find a certain playing style incomprehensible does not give anyone the right to engage in character assassination and condemnation. <plink><plink> My two cents' worth Trilll ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/b/158119/av.jpg |
Posted By: bansisdead
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 23:33
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Trillian, I have seen very little character assassination in this thread. Some have stated they like war, others not, some have declared their love for hugs, others have shown their dislike for such actions. I think your claim of a disturbing level of bigotry is a gross exaggeration and demeaning to real bigotry. ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/124253" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Princess Xanax
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2012 at 23:56
| Trilllian, I don't believe the word "hate" was used in this thread until you used it. |
Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2012 at 00:10
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I have a question: Just who are the snugglers who are saying there shouldn't be war? I haven't seen them in this thread, I haven't heard them in global chat. I have heard people say that attacking people who don't want war makes things less fun for those people. I haven't heard anyone say that attacking people in general should not happen or isn't fun. I have also heard people try to regulate who should or shouldn't be able to respond to defend those who are being attacked for fun. It seems that these are the people who are in actuality trying to make rules about who gets to fight, not the "snugglers." It seems that there is a segment of people who think that it's perfectly fine for a group of warlike folks to pick a relatively peaceful party and make war on them. I actually don't have a problem with that -- or rather, I think it is a fairly shortsighted plan that tends to be unfun for other people, but I recognize it as an honest game strategy. What I DO have a problem with is the idea that no one else should intervene on behalf of the relatively peaceful group and strive to assist them. That to me is the height of hypocrisy. For shame! Those who play the metagame to seek to prevent other people from interfering in their war are of course welcome to do so. Long live the metagame. But let's call a spade a spade and recognize it for what it is: A strategy intended to make it easier to win a war against an already weaker party by confusing the issue and making it less likely that others will take a stand. Probably a lot of people will fall for this because they are do not think it through clearly. Hopefully many will also see through it. The question is: Is it right to stand up for people who prefer to play in peace? Is it acceptable to defend such people, if one wishes? I contend that it is.
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Posted By: Aurordan
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2012 at 00:10
Snuggle is a bit derogatory, but behave in a diplomatic, friendly, and respectful manner? Certainly.
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Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2012 at 00:16
| Snugglers have been known to behave in a diplomatic, friendly and respectful manner while slaughtering tens of thousands of dorf troops. I'd just like to remind people who think that "snuggler" and "fighter" are in opposition to each other of that fact. |
Posted By: Aurordan
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2012 at 00:24
| The post I was originally responded to seemed to raise the hypothetical situation of a player that liked to snuggle but not fight. Also, I'm afraid the word may have escaped its original definition. |
Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2012 at 00:30
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I would like to reclaim it. snuggle -- v. tr.; To draw close or hold closely, as for comfort or in affection; hug
Please develop another shorthand for "an imaginary group of people that we don't like." I think NC complained that Gim meddled. May I propose "meddlers" as the alternative term? It will cause less confusion and is less likely to be taken amiss by snugglers who basically want to mind their own business and whale on some dorfs once in a while.
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Posted By: Aurordan
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2012 at 00:44
| Good luck. It's too perfect a word. Meddlers is a different thing entirely, but we could try "meddling snugglers, at the risk of sounding like Scooby-Doo villains. |
Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2012 at 00:47
| As long as it is not confused with any group of people who actually exist in the game, but is identified only with people's paranoid imaginings, it's fine with me. |
Posted By: Garth
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2012 at 01:08
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Gim is no snuggler, that's for sure. Setting up snuggling v. fighting, besides being irrelevant to the matter at hand, is ridiculous; this is a game, where military is one of the tools some people use to (hopefully) have fun. Snuggling is a fun way that some people show affection in chat. WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL?!?!?! If you don't find either one fun, don't participate in it. However, because this is a community, people who don't like fighting have to watch people fight sometimes, people who don't like snuggling have to watch people snuggle sometimes, and people who don't like bad grammar have to watch the improper use of your/you're and they're/there/their more often than the other groups put together  As for the matter at hand, honestly, I tend to agree with the proposition that this challenge and stepping up to face it head on will be great for Gim and the STEEL alliances. Though I don't necessarily agree with all of NC's invective, I can appreciate that their actions so far have been relatively measured to reflect the dynamics of the alliances and the (standard) shades of gray that all us "commenters" like to ignore. Armies are a tool. This is a game. No real damage is done unless there's no fun. If there's no fun, that means 1) people have not been respecting each other; 2) people have been taking the game too seriously.
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Posted By: Daufer
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2012 at 01:58
If they ASK for help, fine. That's the point. Is Gimardoran asking you for help? No? Then he apparently feels that he can handle it by himself, or that NC will get bored and quit if he doesn't respond. It isn't your place to butt in and say "uh uh, no hitting my little buddy". That's basically the same as saying "I don't care if you find him annoying or you think he is up to something sneaky, you better just ignore him because you can't do anything to him without my permission". Are you going to do this for everyone, or just the blessed handful?
NC claims that Gim is a schemer who annoys them and plots their downfall. That may not be entirely true, but I seriously doubt that NC just decided out of the blue to pick on poor innocent fluffy bunny Gimardoran. I seem to remember not so long ago that the crows were ready to string up Gim's friend Johnny112 for trying to stir up dissent against a certain one of their officers. I'm sure there was ample evidence... not that I ever saw it... but that doesn't prove that Johnny was more guilty than Gim so much as it demonstrates that Johnny sucks at cloak and dagger and isn't.
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Posted By: Vanerin
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2012 at 02:09
I never said that those who don't like the lovey-dovey stuff should not use chat. Just if certain people annoy you, block them. If you do not want to see me snuggling, posting a link, or talking with friends, please please block me so you can enjoy GC. I also never said that armies should not be used. If fact, I said the oposite: "If there are people that wish to fight, then they should fight." I would really appreciate it if you did not put words in my mouth. ~Vanerin
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Posted By: Garth
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2012 at 03:02
Just because Gim has not publicly stated that he's secured potential help --if needed-- doesn't mean that he hasn't been in contact with people. In fact, based on his penchant for multiple chatzy's and making the rounds, I wouldn't doubt that he's either *requested* or *entertained offers* of assistance from multiple people/alliances. And yes, nCrow (you can see Harry and Rill's positions here clearly) is a likely candidate. My only point being that making assumptions is not the best starting point to impress one's disproval. It's very easy in such cases to project prior situations onto the matter at hand, even if they're not completely relevant.
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Posted By: AdamTheGreat
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2012 at 03:04
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I hate these topics, because so few of the posters know nothing of the war, as a member of STEEL, i know
------------- Sinn Fein "Ourselves Alone" |
Posted By: abstractdream
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2012 at 05:11
I'm actually not surprised you would interpret my words in that way but the thrust of the statement was that you acted unilaterally. Acting on your own piles all the consequences for said action on your own head (metaphorically speaking.) Bringing your friends in from the beginning and enlightning them, enlightning anyone actually as to your motives and goals would have dulled the sharp reaction. With consensus the concequences are spread out, sometimes to the point of non-existent. Not a difficult concept really. My opinion on NC vs STEEL is not going to surprise anyone. Let them have at it. The Forum is available to players and NC engaged it. Why is that even an issue? These debates are enticing to a lot of us. For me personally the metagame is the only thing keeping me here. I assume that a few players would rather I had gone, but this is the very sort of thing that has kept me hanging in there. I am not a grinder. I do not enjoy battling NPCs or building population. I am a thinker, or at least I would like to be. Illy gives me an opportunity to do just that. Successful ideas are as rare as successful anything else. One is required to spew a bunch of crap and be good enough at spotting gems buried in that crap to make a real go of it. In RL one usually cannot afford to fail over and over again but in a game like Illy, failure is not as scary. None of this is real. Loosing a city is not going to cause one to loose sleep (assuming one is well enough balanced to understand it's not real.) Fight a war, rebuild. No big deal. No one is dead. No one is living in the street. Move on. Allies stand up for each other. One need not ask, it is assumed that it will happen. What they don't do is interfere in the actual proceedings without an invitation. Speaking up, here or in GC does not interfere in the actual proceedings, however words have power. What we say has strength in as much as words carry ideas and those ideas can affect and alter the proceedings. That is not action, that is ideas. The difference is that one need not participate personally to cause affect. One only need speak (or in this case, write) to be involved, even in a small way. Most players have no interest in this sort of "manipulation" but those of us who do can find great enjoyment in a successful play. As for the hugs vs hits debate which has sprung up again, it is entirely bogus. Many huggers fight and many fighters hug, as has been attested to by a few here and elsewhere. ------------- |
Posted By: abstractdream
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2012 at 05:35
"Stuck fear" & etc. is rhetoric. A good alliance profile, in my opinion should state something to educate the uniformed about the alliance. Flamboyant language seems par for the course. I guess I could tone it down, but I don't see the point. I surely am not concerned about the feelings of our antagonists. If you are insulted, so be it. So what? ------------- |
Posted By: Chaos Armor
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2012 at 12:04
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I would like to have seen your opinion if everyone had said "Let them have at it." when Aesir had declared war on you.
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Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2012 at 13:10
| there seems to be a way of playing this game that involves backstabbing and underhand dealings, maybe the ethical game players in the illy community should start exposing these players for the game they are playing, it seems lately we have seen alot of these dealing being mentioned in the forums but its not directed with the right response from players that prefer a more upfront way of playing the game instead of what is currently the direction that illy is going |
Posted By: Kilotov V2.0
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2012 at 13:59
what the heck are you people waiting for to call in your "confederations"??? if you feel like that, call them to take up arms at once. if you feel you can deal whit this, then keep them out, so easy. the whole aesir/trl affair was shady from begin whit. in therms of pop, Aesir was clearly overpowered. in this chase, your pop is slightly bigger, even if understandably you have more player and smaller pop/player ratio.
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Posted By: abstractdream
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2012 at 15:32
Well, first off my opinion is just mine. If everyone had said "let them have at it" about Aesir attacking TLR, this would be a different game. At the time Aesir's population was 2.5 mil and TLR's was 500k. Currently STEEL has a population of 1.5 mil and NC has 1.4 mil. Those two situations do not seem quite equivilant to me. Maybe my bias is blinding me? How much different would it have been if Aesir had had just one ally in the loop? I suppose one can infer my opinion from my posts at the time but let me just state it here, now: IF the community had left Aesir alone to do as they pleased, I would have done the best I could to fight back. All of TLR would have. I think the results would be easily predictable but Aesir would be much more vulnerable to a similar attack on them after we had taken quite a bit of them down with us. The next step would be for someone with a distaste for GD or HtW or whoever to destroy them. Where it ends, who knows? Aesir declared because they hate EF. The other issues were a smoke screen. It was a simple case of (what Aesir thought was) opportunity. They underestimated the "fair play" mentality of the community. It enlightened me and most assuredly enlightened Aesir. My opinion then was something along the lines of: it is unfair but so what? My opinion now is: so what? I've become quite accustomed to the pile on. I did nothing to warrant loosing a city yet it is gone because I am associated with Illy's resident villain. Again, so what? If Illy were a simple war game with no political aspect, I would not be here anyway. So what? ------------- |
Posted By: Anjire
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2012 at 16:16
"Expert testimonial for sale" IGM with bribe 
------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/26125" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: geofrey
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2012 at 16:17
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If possible, could someone with first hand experience answer the following questions. Please don't voice your opinion about what the answers should be, I am just asking for a status update. What is the current military status of this conflict? NC and STEEL in full on warfare? Have any further declarations been made? Any other alliances sent forces to intervene? ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/45534" rel="nofollow"> |
Posted By: Faenix
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2012 at 16:51
NC has declared war on STEEL. No other alliances have made any declarations. Military attacks are incoming to Gim. Nothing further to report at this time.
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Posted By: Chaos Armor
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2012 at 01:32
The point of my post was for you to clarify your post. Thank you for the cooperation.
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Posted By: Faenix
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2012 at 03:04
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Here's the latest status update on the conflict from NC's perspective: As previosuly stated, NC declared war on STEEL. HANSA and DARK declared war on NC. KCrow pledged defensive support for STEEL. NC has successfully razed STEEL's capital, Gendard'in. This was our goal from the beginning, and as we have accomplished it, NC has extended an unconditional offer of peace to STEEL, our pound of flesh has been extracted and we have no further dispute with STEEL. NC has also extended an unconditional offer of peace to HANSA, we never had an issue with Mana. The "Offer Peace" has already been handled via game mechanics and IGMs have been issued to the appropriate parties.
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Posted By: Bard
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2012 at 17:15
[16:09]<   Keikodjin> I'm sure ~NC~ don't care what you think Twilights.
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Posted By: Sisren
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2012 at 11:38
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QUOTE=Bard][16:09]<Keikodjin> I'm sure ~NC~ don't care what you think Twilights.
[QUOTE]
I couldn't see what you posted without doing a reply... I agree. ~NC~ likely could care less what twilights thinks. :) ------------- Illy is different from Physics- Reactions are rarely Equal, and rarely the opposite of what you'd expect... |
Posted By: bansisdead
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2012 at 15:26
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I'm lost could NC care less or not care less about Twilights. This important piece of gossip needs to be clarified by NC... ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/124253" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Sir Bradly
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2012 at 23:20
Update: It has been nearly 48 hours since ~NC~ made initial peace offerings to both STEEL and HANSA. As of now, neither alliance has accepted peace or even bothered to respond to our mail. As a result we are giving STEEL until 00:00 Oct 4 server time to accept or decline. If no action is made prior to Oct 4th our peace offering will be withdrawn and our war efforts against STEEL will resume.
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