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Garrisons away from home

Printed From: Illyriad
Category: The World
Forum Name: Elgea
Forum Description: For everything related to the Elgea Continent
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=4127
Printed Date: 17 Apr 2022 at 08:47
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Garrisons away from home
Posted By: Covmeister
Subject: Garrisons away from home
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2012 at 13:42
This is really to get the opinion of general members of the community on a principle

We have a member who has no grapes within hundreds of squares of his cities. Consequently if he wants grapes, he has to send cotters on long distance jaunts to get them.

To avoid being bumped, he has garrisoned a particular grape harvesting square which is many hundreds of squares from his city.

A member of another alliance, approximately 20 squares away from these grapes, who had not garrisoned this particular square but has harvested it in the past, now has taken umbrage and wants the garrison removed.

The question in principle is:-

Does someone have a call to ownership of a square due to the fact it is close to him and very distant from someone else who would like to harvest it. If so, at what distance can that right to ownership be called. 10 sq, 20, 50, whoever is closest or whoever is strongest?




Replies:
Posted By: invictusa
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2012 at 13:58
I by no means speak on behalf of anyone associated with me but . . . dog eat dog.  Survival of the fittest, and all that jazz.  If you can back up the claim tell the opposing player in not the same words and by all means more diplomatically; to pack up, shove off, piss off, and make like a larken tree and leave.  

Alliances have been advertising what they view as their own, and in turn what another alliance is granted in their view.  Check the players alliance page.  If they claim 20 tile radius rights for rares . . . that is hilarious.

If you can support the rare claim, then dont worry about it.  It is yours.  You claimed it with your army.  They should have done so.  If they move on you to take over, you now have moral high ground and warrant for striking back ten fold if you are able.

EDIT: If you are unable to withhold the claim, send me an IGM and depending on the circumstance we can work out a personal agreement.


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...and miles to go before I sleep.


Posted By: Mahaut
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2012 at 15:38
Distances here are irrelevent IMHO, it makes no difference whatsoever whether one player is from 30 tiles away or from 300 or 3000, the relevant part of this is how far from the players city the garrison was set up.....anything over 10 is widely considered totally acceptable in uncrowded areas ...and in this case, as its more than double that it conforms more than adequately to every other alliances' written or implied stance on this. 
I don't think the player has done anything wrong by placing a garrison or should even have been asked to move that garrison. 
If it was that important to a player 20 or so tiles away he should have garrisoned it himself in the first place.


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Posted By: Sgt..Shanks
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2012 at 16:55

Worlds End would only regard the right to a tile 5 squares away... Many seem to have opted for 10.
I have to say 20 squares away really is greedy!!!

plus one to Invictusa!

I think now Alliances need to agree to fair fights....


Posted By: SugarFree
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2012 at 17:02
fair fights... LOL
a fight's goal is to WIN. by any means.
nothing is more pointless than an honored defeat. better a dirty victory. 


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Nuisance


Posted By: Mahaut
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2012 at 17:14
don't think fighting was the issue, the point of the original forum post was to ascertain the community's views on acceptable behaviour regarding garrisons as far as i understood it. 

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Posted By: Sgt..Shanks
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2012 at 17:27

Well if a player does not move their troops from a nice lil spot that's within a Worlds End city...
They can not complain when their troops die... end of!

Is not an act of war IMO! 

Also Devs did this for a reason... Friction should be noted and played through nicely between players.

This is the NEW TOURNEY! Just fight for the squares .. but hey, if are a decent player... whats wrong with a mail and a little sharing?? 

I as a leader, back my alliance within 5 squares.. after that.. it is up to them!

I will say this though...
I do not understand why so many are occupying squares so far from home... 

Did nobody mention that Defense in this game is absolute crap??

Blessings to All!






Posted By: Mahaut
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2012 at 17:36
hmmm. Simple answer there is no one owns anything except their city and their sov.

Regarding harvesting Victrix policy is that we don't consider anything outside 5 tiles from our cities and not on a sov tile to warrant any fuss at all - irrespective of where it is on the map - if we don't protect harvestable rare goods and someone else comes in and puts a garrison on them that's just life. Indeed I have a garrison from another alliance just 7 tiles from one of my cities - it dosen't bother bother me in the slightest, was my fault for not spotting the rare herbs sooner and it never even occured to me to tell them to leave - I have better things to do and the time spent fussing over it can be better served by finding other things to harvest. 
However we have no grapes or rare minerals in Larn which is our main base, and trading prices are still silly.
In consequence we WILL and do garrison resource tiles, if we feel they need protection, a stance which seems to be pretty universally applied by other alliances (although in the centre I have seen garrisons from other alliances very much closer than 10 tiles to each other and to other cities and no one seems to take serious umbrage - pretty much impossible to do otherwise in heavily populated areas where everyone is on top of each other).


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Posted By: dunnoob
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2012 at 20:44
Originally posted by Mahaut Mahaut wrote:

the point of the original forum post was to ascertain the community's views on acceptable behaviour regarding garrisons as far as i understood it. 
Occupations of grapes or rare herbs without good reasons are hostile.  Good reasons include the protection of almost depleted herbs, the protection of gatherers at work, and claiming sov.  Some rare herbs are always almost depleted, they would die if only four herbalists without a clue harvest.




Posted By: Meagh
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2012 at 00:48
> Occupations of grapes or rare herbs without good reasons are hostile.  Good reasons include the protection of almost depleted herbs, the protection of gatherers at work, and claiming sov...

That makes little sense to me. It is impossible to prevent herbs from being depleted without control of the resource. You control the via sov or a garrison of troops. To do one you must have the other. It is normal play in Illy to occupy a rare resource or a grape patch. The only time I could see that as a hostile action is if it was done by a distant player (city over ten squares away) near another players city (within ten squares) with no regard for the player who is near.

Regarding the original post... imho there is nothing wrong with a claim across the map as long as it is not near another players city. - M.


Posted By: Hadus
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2012 at 02:04
It really depends on the goals of both parties, and how much they are willing to risk.
In the situation listed in the OP, the best solution IMO is communication. If you can work out a way to share the spot, that would be ideal. If, however, either one of you refuses to come up with a mutually beneficial solution, then you're going to have to decide on a different method: payment to lift the garrison, exchanging a portion of the harvested grapes for a different commodity, or possibly a series of skirmishes for control.
 
The short answer is there is no short answer when it comes to garrisons. I advise you look at the situation as a dynamic, exciting game mechanic that offers an endless number of possible approaches and outcomes while putting your negotiation and persuasion skills to the test.


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http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/157483" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: dunnoob
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2012 at 04:45
If an occupation without legit business at the public square gets in the way of your gatherers remove it before your gatherers arrive, and inform the player in time (for a recall) what's going on.  

If you want to "own" a square for whatever reason claim sov.  Just parking an army on it only means "need bigger army" for others interested in the same square.  There is an upper limit of new resources per square.  An occupation without actually working on the square wastes blocked resources when they reach this limit.  


Posted By: SugarFree
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2012 at 12:11
sov does not make it yours either 

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Nuisance


Posted By: Tinuviel's Voice
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2012 at 21:28
Originally posted by dunnoob dunnoob wrote:

If you want to "own" a square for whatever reason claim sov.  


100% true
Thumbs Up



Posted By: SugarFree
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2012 at 21:39
Originally posted by Tinuviel's Voice Tinuviel's Voice wrote:

Originally posted by dunnoob dunnoob wrote:

If you want to "own" a square for whatever reason claim sov.  


100% true
Thumbs Up

100% true? you are joking i hope. sov close to your town are whit no doubt yours. up to 10 squares. but further out sov does not mean a thing, it's a fancy and expensive flag. that gives you slight edge in combat and visibility. that's it.


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Nuisance


Posted By: Meagh
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2012 at 04:02
Originally posted by SugarFree SugarFree wrote:

 
100% true? you are joking i hope. sov close to your town are whit no doubt yours. up to 10 squares. but further out sov does not mean a thing, it's a fancy and expensive flag. that gives you slight edge in combat and visibility. that's it.

I think you might be off in this. A sov claim anywhere is the players in the same sense that a city of a player anywhere is the players.. unless you have developed some subjective view of sovereignty by combining a community stand of courtesy with it?

If you do not confuse the two then it means exactly what it has always meant... A sov claim is the property of a sovereign state / player and they'd probably go to battle over it.  Just like a city. There is no limitation on distance when it comes to sovereignty claims. - M.


Posted By: Turtie
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2012 at 04:17
Claiming Sov. as a function of the game does not keep unaffiliated occupying forces off a square -- so how could that possibly be the deciding factor?

The only thing in game that will keep others off a square is an occupying number of troops who are willing to DISPATCH any other player's gatherers/troops.

You want claim to a certain resource square? Legit?  Not to sound cliche but well. . . 

Put up an army - or shut up - 


Posted By: Uno
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2012 at 14:14
Originally posted by Covmeister Covmeister wrote:

This is really to get the opinion of general members of the community on a principle

We have a member who has no grapes within hundreds of squares of his cities. Consequently if he wants grapes, he has to send cotters on long distance jaunts to get them.

To avoid being bumped, he has garrisoned a particular grape harvesting square which is many hundreds of squares from his city.

A member of another alliance, approximately 20 squares away from these grapes, who had not garrisoned this particular square but has harvested it in the past, now has taken umbrage and wants the garrison removed.

The question in principle is:-

Does someone have a call to ownership of a square due to the fact it is close to him and very distant from someone else who would like to harvest it. If so, at what distance can that right to ownership be called. 10 sq, 20, 50, whoever is closest or whoever is strongest?


Excuse me but you are completely turning the question upside down. The player who is calling ownership of a square indipendently from the distance is the one who sends an army to occupy it, preventing all other neutral players from harvesting. The player who is 20 squares away and is NOT occupying the square so that everyone can harvest and would like that things remain like this is the one who isn't making any claim. You've got a rather wicked view on what monopolizing means.


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Eréc of Caer Uisc
King of Dyfneint
Indomiti Alliance


Posted By: Hadus
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2012 at 14:58
Originally posted by SugarFree SugarFree wrote:

sov does not make it yours either 
 
Harvesting on someone else's sov spot is like taking flowers from their front yard: sure, it isn't well protected like the valuables locked in their house, and maybe you'll get away with it once in a while, but the community consensus is that it's their property, and trespassing will by frowned upon/punished.


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http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/157483" rel="nofollow">



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