Crime & Punishment & Orcs (a.k.a. BSH)
Printed From: Illyriad
Category: The World
Forum Name: Politics & Diplomacy
Forum Description: If you run an alliance on Elgea, here's where you should make your intentions public.
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=4106
Printed Date: 16 Apr 2022 at 21:30
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Crime & Punishment & Orcs (a.k.a. BSH)
Posted By: Vermino
Subject: Crime & Punishment & Orcs (a.k.a. BSH)
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2012 at 11:49
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I'd like to bring a little story from Tigre (BSH) to your attention. I've been playing for more than 2 years and this is the first time I post on these forums This is a quick summary:
I'm fed up with all this bullying, greed and unfairness. He will raze my town and then probably go for the rest, but I am not arming these warmongers.
So, why am I posting this? half the reason is plain ranting about this outrage, and the other half is doing the community a service so they know who they're dealing with if they cross paths with Tigre or BSH. Since I'm not arming them so they do the same to someone else and my future is doomed, if someone was or is being wronged by Tigre or BSH, I will donate to their cause. I was going to name this thread "The Trolls have arrived" since we're next to the Troll hub, but I thought it would be misleading and didn't want myself to be another troll. Thanks for your attention and I hope this post will be useful to someone. Cheers, |
Replies:
Posted By: Corwin
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2012 at 15:22
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I'm also playing this game for over 2 years and I havn't post on the forums for quite some time and for me to has time come where I can no longer keep it for myself. I was thinking of creating a similar thread as something similar happened lately to me. My capital has been in Mal Motsha since before BSH was founded (a rather long time before). Right at the Lurcerna border. I never had any problems with any neighbors and never had issues with BSH. A couple of days ago I received a mail from Gypsy_Morph (BSH), saying I had to withdraw all my occupying armies from harvestable plots in MM as 'MM belongs to the horde and their allies' (those are the exact words from the mail) The way he chose his words was far from polite, and those occupying armies were on sov squares. So I refused. I replied with saying the squares were technically mine (sov) and didn't belong to BSH. Also I stated I've been there for a long time and that BSH wasn't founded back then.
Gypsy's reply was amazing. He called my reply rude (as if his initial mail wasn't, ) He proposed a duel between me and him, with my sovs and MM towns at stake. The duel had to be between the 2 of us, no help from alliance. Gypsy has 100k more pop then me, so not a very fair fight imo. However, weirdest part of his proposed duel was that in case I would win, I got to keep my sov and towns. If I would lose, I'd had to withdraw from MM. So basically gypsy's proposing a duel with someone who's a lot smaller and if he loses... nothing happens. I would have to fight for what's allready mine and with absolutely nothing to win. I didn't bother to reply to such insane challenge. I'm sure my town would've been allready under attack if I had been in a smaller alliance. I was hoping this was a single player from BSH that has lost his mind and wanted to bully around. But after reading the above, I'm not so sure. I'm wondering if more players have had similar mails or situations. I have no bad feelings towards BSH so far, and don't want to blame the alliance in general. Maybe this has nothing to do with the situation of Vermino, but if this is really how BSH do there business I think their targets should unite against them. |
Posted By: Vermino
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2012 at 16:25
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So is this their signature technique?. Seems that I was lured into their trap under the threat of attacking my alliance. I wouldn't even have started this thread if it wasn't that after accepting his insane demands he kept asking for more, up front with no guarantee of retreat, and while my town is under bombardment and hours can be vital. Clearly he didn't want to reach an agreement. All Tigre said was that I lied to him, and that I have more stuff than I acknowledge (as I one would have to hand his bank statement to a kidnapper so he can decide how much he can squeeze out of you).
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Posted By: Brids17
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2012 at 16:38
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I faintly recall a few people talking about Tigre being very aggressive back when he was in VALAR so I guess nothing has changed. Maybe it'll be the end of him eventually. |
Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2012 at 16:57
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Why don't you could take refuge in a bigger alliance for a while? I'm sure there will be plenty of folks happy to take you in. May not be a very happy thing to do, but still better than giving in to bullying and blackmail. |
Posted By: Malpherion
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2012 at 17:16
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Vermillo, in your case, I am prepared to offer my services as champion to teach Tigre a lesson.... I saw you would be prepared to pay 50 million+ and an offer of support. This is just a thought mate, seems you've been bullied excessively here. Off course we would apply their own rules, me and Tigre 1 on 1....  Corwin, I remember you, your a good guy. I would say in your case, that firstly you should talk to Jasche, he's good at that diplomacy stuff. Your alliance should be able to "Sort out" BSH for you, surely. Failing that, I offer to you the same as Vermillo above, 1 on 1 with Gypsy_Morph, for a nominal fee of course  |
Posted By: Bonaparta
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2012 at 18:18
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Interesting! People must be really starving for conflicts. Let me try to clarify few things before 20 alliances declare war and feel very proud and just about it... Vermino, why didn't you start by telling that you and your former alliance agreed to that duel and you fully knew what was at stake, actually it was you who proposed the duel it out with Tigre to me. Perhaps your overconfidence got the best of you when you assassinated most of Tigre's commanders, thieved tens of thousands advanced resources of him and won few skirmishes. Truth for a change wouldn't hurt. Why didn't you accept Tigre's offer to recall a siege and end this? Why did you lie that you couldn't even get 40M which is not even the amount your thieves took from Tigre. In your thieving city alone is much more ... resources worth over 1.5 billion. I think that if Tigre's spies wouldn't find out the truth you would still pretend to be a poor pacifist with large armies and huge amount of thieves just to protect yourself... In fact I was amazed when I saw that spy report. You are richest thief I ever saw... Perhaps I will write more on this matter later but let's go on to other posts. Corwin you've got mail. Brids, interesting, first I hear of this, but judging from your previous posts when you always poured fuel to a fire, I really can't take you very seriously. Wherever there was a bit of a conflict you kind of choose one side and with your comments actively seek for war. Are you that bored? Ander. Vermino switched alliances already. I very much doubt that he informed his new alliance leaders about entire situation and even if he did I even more doubt that he spoke the truth. If he would, I doubt that any serious alliance would accept him. Malpherion. Not long ago I read like 4-5 posts about you in conflict with different persons and alliances. I think that speaks for itself. Let me paste you definition of a bully: bul·ly 1 n. pl. bul·lies
1. A person who is habitually cruel or overbearing, especially to smaller or weaker people. 2. A hired ruffian; a thug. 3. A pimp. 4. Archaic A fine person. 5. Archaic A sweetheart. So by you bravely extending your "services" to Vermino against Tigre which point in deffinition would apply, perhaps a sweetheart? (Tigre is half your size, you do offer yourself for hire, not to mention Tigre lost most of his armies in this duel....)
------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/95216" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: scaramouche
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2012 at 18:38
I find it interesting that you start this reply from the moment of the duel between these players yet fail to mention the fact Tigre hijacked vermino's sov plots by force.
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Bonaparta wrote:Posted By: Bonaparta
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2012 at 18:41
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Scaramuche, actually those spots become Vermino's sovs only after the city was already there in 5 days cool down period. Not to mention they are too far away to make any profit for Vermino. ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/95216" rel="nofollow"> |
Posted By: scaramouche
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2012 at 18:47
| you miss the point...settling that close to someone without any notification and attacking their sov is an aggressive move by anyone's standards. |
Posted By: Bonaparta
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2012 at 18:56
Not by anyone's standard... Those two cities could coexist as they are without any economic hindrance to each other. There isn't enough space in Elgea anymore that would make it possible that all cities would be 10 sq away. Vermino probably planned to settle there himself or one of his friends, but got beaten to it, then he started claiming unreasonable sovs around that city. ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/95216" rel="nofollow"> |
Posted By: Silent/Steadfast
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2012 at 19:01
So you're saying: After getting screwed over by our aggression, Vermino, you offered a one on one battle that you weren't prepared for so that you could save your alliance from destruction, attempted to win it via sabotaging your enemy's war effort, and now that the war is going badly for you, you offer us ONLY 50 mil to stop! (Yes, the number was 50, not 40 mil) Honestly Bona, I've always respected you as a leader of the community and of your alliance, however on this one the facts are against you. Vermino DID inform me about the conflict (I lead the alliance he joined) and sent me the mails between you, Tigre, G0DsDestroyer, and himself, and what I see is Tigre forcibly taking from Vermino what was his by right of length of occupation. Let's talk about how gracious Vermino was in allowing Tigre to settle so close to him in the first place, shall we? He didn't have to do that, and when he did he did set down rules to make sure that the area would remain at least mostly under his control. Well, Tigre saw how nice his new neighbor was, and decided to take advantage of it. Is this honestly how you want your alliance to conduct it's affairs in Illyriad?
------------- "Semantics are no protection from a 50 Megaton Thermonuclear Stormcrow."-Yggdrassil (June 21, 2011 6:48 PM) "SCROLL ya donut!" Urgorr The Old (September 1, 2011 4:08 PM) |
Posted By: Hadus
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2012 at 19:01
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I'm too far from the situation to call the rights and wrongs, but I'd say this comes down to politics? You mentioned being unprepared? That, unfortunately, is a valid factor in war; few battles were won in history without some element of surprise. I'd also be interested in hearing what sort of agreements and confederations you alliance had been working on recently, in the event of an attack from a larger force. That could have been a great help to you. ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/157483" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Silent/Steadfast
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2012 at 19:07
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As I'm not able to coherently post the rest of my previous message due to a lot of code appearing when I do, I'll do it here: Vermino sent me the logs of your conversation with him within 3 minutes of me asking for them. It's rather hard to forge an entire conversation in 3 min. As for seriousness, REALM and the entire STEEL confederation are very serious about diplomatic matters such as this, and we wholeheartedly support Vermino in his plight. RANDOM STUFF TO BE SACRIFICED TO THE WALL OF EVIL TEXTNESS! ------------- "Semantics are no protection from a 50 Megaton Thermonuclear Stormcrow."-Yggdrassil (June 21, 2011 6:48 PM) "SCROLL ya donut!" Urgorr The Old (September 1, 2011 4:08 PM) |
Posted By: scaramouche
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2012 at 19:07
I wont argue too much on the squares because i dont know the exact squares that are in question, other than to say vermino's intentions were probably to sov the squares in his own time...Tigre's sudden appearance on the scene obviously forced vermino's hand to sov them sooner, rather than when it was too late.
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Posted By: Raatalagk
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2012 at 19:09
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At the end of the day, even if we suppose that tigre was originally in the wrong due to city placement or sov claiming or whatever, the matter comes simply to this: Vermino agreed to a duel with tigre, and now that he's losing he has executed the classic "run to the community for pity" manoeuver. We at BSH like to encourage disputes between players to be resolved between players, and duels are a nice way of accomplishing this. They cause limited casualties, avoid large-scale "pile-on" wars, leave alliance leadership free to deal with other matters, and they can be a lot of fun. In fact, many players happily agree to duels, sometimes with detailed agreed-upon restrictions, and have a blast. I wish more players would use this method to settle disputes rather than whining in GC. It is reminiscent of the idea of settling a dispute with a chess match. We do not force anyone into duels. The only reason our alliance got involved in this tigre/Vermino fiasco to begin with was the fact that tigre was getting hit repeatedly with major diplo attacks of different races and Vermino's city was being reinforced by his alliance mates. And our involvement was kept short and sweet, wrapping up quickly with an agreement to duel, happily accepted by both parties. If Vermino didn't want to duel, he shouldn't have agreed to it, and then we might be discussing a different issue. As it stands, tigre was fully prepared to perhaps lose his city in the event that he was bested by Vermino, and he would not have spoken a word of complaint if that had been the outcome. This culture of "punish the winner" is not a healthy one, and shouldn't be encouraged. I suggest that we resolve this issue by reverting to the previously agreed-upon terms of defeat: Vermino pays 50M in gold or advanced resources. Vermino, your initial claim that you couldn't muster this amount is belied by your stockpile of over 200k saddles, which, incidentally, was the insult that originally led tigre to demand more. I have not conferred with tigre on this proposal; rather, I am proposing it now, to you both, for you each to evaluate as you will.
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Posted By: Vermino
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2012 at 19:15
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Damage control, Bonaparta? I'll tell you something, the best damage control is not to do things you can't defend. Thanks Scaramouche, moving so close and forcefully taking my sov is the whole point. Bonaparta, everything you said is in accordance with what I already said. Only that you're making it look slightly prettier for BSH, although I'm afraid you fail. I proposed the duel as the only way out to avoid BSH attacks on my alliance without entirely submitting to your unreasonable demands. It's not like I went around asking for a duel and my concern at that point was to save my alliance. I never thought I had a great chance of surviving, but I accepted the deal and I'm not asking for help. But you know what? It's strange that 3 days after agreeing on a one on one duel I send my thieves to a town who had no thief defense previously and 10000 thieves get caught. Maybe someone forgot to remove his thief reinforcements? On the other hand, it's clear that Tigre was preparing for this conflict for a long time before he moved his town next to mine. I thought he was actually looking for what is happening right now. After reading that you used this technique before, I'm sure. And I'm certainly filthy rich, that is why I'm funding whoever wants to fight Tigre and the rest of you for your bullying and warmongering. After all, since you're erasing me from the map, I'll pay for Tigre's coffin if I can. At least that would be more than 1 million advanced resources put to good use and not feeding your war machine. Thieves out there, please don't get excited. My stuff is being moved to an occassional sitter I have for safekeeping. How I got all that stuff? Innactives and enemies or people who had attacked me. A lot of people refrain to thieve from innactives because they don't have the right amount of thieves to crack the nut, but I do. You won't find an innocent victim of my exploits (well, I made a mistake two years ago, but I refunded it). Bonaparta, if you expect me to give you my bank statement while you are extorting me, you're nuts. I have two days ago switched alliances, yes. It's kind of merge and my new leadership knows everything about BSH. Only they're little too. I know it's pointless because I'm being erradicated, but it was scheduled.
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Posted By: Vermino
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2012 at 19:26
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Raatakalg, Tigre was never hit by diplos other than mine. The duel was not exactly on free will but I accepted it. I think you actually engineer every duel you have and I suspect BSH is oftentimes the offender to begin with. What moved me to post here is that after setting terms I could agree to, however outrageous, Tigre learns that I'm richer and wants to milk the cow. What is the price for lifting a siege? no fairness or justice involved in the calculations, just whatever you can extort from your victim. My town is half in ruins now, and I don't give a damn. I actually prefer to give all my resources to someone who would do something about BSH ways. |
Posted By: Bonaparta
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2012 at 19:41
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Read the Raatalagk post above Vermino. I agree with it 100%. All reinforcements were removed from Tigre's cities and no assistance was given to him. You scouted and spied Tigre cities periodically so I assume you know this. About your theory of Tigre preparing for this... Most of his towns just exodused and he lost majority of his forces in a war. You are good with words and diplomatic units I give you that... Silent: As I understand you've got all the mail correspondence before Vermino joined your alliance. Why didn't you contact any of us before? Why only now when siege is in place and Vermino is unable to break it? Would any forum post even exist if Tigre would be on the loosing side? ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/95216" rel="nofollow"> |
Posted By: invictusa
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2012 at 19:47
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Apologies if I am missing the bigger point here. If you agree (and especially if you initiate the challenge), to a duel, and after each opponent takes ten steps, turns, and fires; you lose much more face by claiming that the duel was unfair in the first place than if you just accept your losses, learn from your mistakes, and move on. I think any moral high ground you before had was lost to any consequences of this conflict you agreed to enter with Tigre, unless there was some agreed upon rules of engagement. Tigre could be asking a lot more from you I think, and would be his/her right. ------------- ...and miles to go before I sleep. |
Posted By: Silent/Steadfast
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2012 at 19:58
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Honestly, this entire situation would be so much easier if BSH admitted that Tigre was wrong to try to take Vermino's sov in the first place. Sure, the duel would continue. But at least Vermino would feel that he had been justified. Raata offers peace, but his peace involves Vermino paying for what Tigre started. He has confirmed on the forum that Tigre's city would stay as it is, with Vermino's sov. The commencement of the duel was not the beginning of this conflict, as BSH claims, but the taking of Vermino's sov. |
Posted By: Vermino
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2012 at 20:53
Apologies accepted. The biggest point is not the duel or Tigre razing my cities, which he will do. The two main points are:
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Posted By: Vermino
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2012 at 21:17
This had escaped my notice, Bonaparta. I see you've done your homework after I accussed you of bullying. So now you know you are a bully for bashing me in the head with your 37k T2 cavalry being so much bigger than I am. But you take a very loose definition. You are not a bully when you stop someone from comitting a violent crime even if you're stronger, only when you take advantage of your strenght to abuse a victim. Go read Olweus as I advised you. I must also give a fair warning, least people would take your word for the truth. Tigre has not lost that much, he's sieging me with 65k troops, 40 catapults and some rams. It will end quickly.
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Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2012 at 23:06
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Posted By: bansisdead
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2012 at 23:33
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+ 10 man points to invictusa. spot on. ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/124253" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: SugarFree
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 00:20
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funny stuff, really. ------------- Nuisance |
Posted By: Raatalagk
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 00:31
Vermino, I would like to come at this again with the hopes that everyone has cooled down somewhat. I am trying to be measured and diplomatic, here, but there's not much for me to work with while your only professed intention is to finance the downfall of our entire alliance. First off, let me say that there is no plan to raze all of your cities, nor was there ever such a plan. I don't know why you keep claiming such things. Personally, I had hoped this situation would be resolved before the current siege could cause much damage, but with all this commotion, that has proven difficult. Second, let me reiterate a point I have already made, and that was put more succinctly by invictusa: for reasons good or bad, you agreed to the duel, so you must accept the consequences. That is just the way the world works. Finally, let me address the other elephant in the room here, namely your indignation that tigre settled so close to you to begin with. Two things need to be said: (a) I would be upset too if someone settled that close to me without asking first. In particular, tigre should have asked first. So let me offer you my personal apology for that infraction. (b) The situation would have been a lot easier to deal with if mediation had been attempted WAY back when tigre first arrived on the scene. Instead, the first time anyone in BSH heard any of these complaints from you was months after the fact, and worse, in the midst of your sending waves of diplo attacks at our member. You met tigre's lack of consideration with hotheadedness, and predictably, the result is a mess. Now, in light of the fact that you agreed to the duel, I still stand by my earlier proposal that you and tigre revert to the original agreement, and you pay him 50M in gold or equivalent resources. It's not nothing, but it's not backbreaking either, especially for you. As a separate issue, I am willing to discuss with you, privately, your problem with tigre's nearby city. These kinds of discussion are relatively commonplace in Illy. We can negotiate as if none of this fighting ever happened---as if you just sent me a mail yesterday saying, "Hey, I just realized this guy tigre settled too close to me. I know it's been a couple of months but I'm really upset by this." You have my word that I will negotiate with you as I would anyone else who came to me with an analogous grievance. Of course, if you accept my offer only to find that I have sneakily double-crossed you, you can always return to the public forum to reveal me for a liar. I assure you, however, that I am no liar.
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Posted By: jordigui
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 00:47
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Hi, I may sound silly, but if everyone was here so good as they claim to be, a peaceful solution could be achieved. I believe it should include these 2 points: 1. Tigre's city moving away from the square at 4.5 squares from the city of Vermino. and that square or close ones not bein occupied by Vermino or other members of his alliance. As it seems clearly accepted that this short distance may be unacceptable, even by members of his alliance. 2. Vermino to pay a compensation to Tigre. I would say 50, or 100 million gold, at max. I also believe that if a peaceful solution is not reached, both sides could expect larger costs (including Tigre's city). If both parts do not think this proposal is so incoherent, you could start negotiating with this as a basis. Cheers, TH |
Posted By: Kale
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 01:08
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Vermino, I would like to come at this again with the hopes that everyone has cooled down somewhat. I am trying to be measured and diplomatic, here, but there's not much for me to work with while your only professed intention is to finance the downfall of our entire alliance. First off, let me say that there is no plan to raze all of your cities, nor was there ever such a plan. I don't know why you keep claiming such things. Personally, I had hoped this situation would be resolved before the current siege could cause much damage, but with all this commotion, that has proven difficult. Second, let me reiterate a point I have already made, and that was put more succinctly by invictusa: for reasons good or bad, you agreed to the duel, so you must accept the consequences. That is just the way the world works. Finally, let me address the other elephant in the room here, namely your indignation that tigre settled so close to you to begin with. Two things need to be said: (a) I would be upset too if someone settled that close to me without asking first. In particular, tigre should have asked first. So let me offer you my personal apology for that infraction. (b) The situation would have been a lot easier to deal with if mediation had been attempted WAY back when tigre first arrived on the scene. Instead, the first time anyone in BSH heard any of these complaints from you was months after the fact, and worse, in the midst of your sending waves of diplo attacks at our member. You met tigre's lack of consideration with hotheadedness, and predictably, the result is a mess. Now, in light of the fact that you agreed to the duel, I still stand by my earlier proposal that you and tigre revert to the original agreement, and you pay him 50M in gold or equivalent resources. It's not nothing, but it's not backbreaking either, especially for you. As a separate issue, I am willing to discuss with you, privately, your problem with tigre's nearby city. These kinds of discussion are relatively commonplace in Illy. We can negotiate as if none of this fighting ever happened---as if you just sent me a mail yesterday saying, "Hey, I just realized this guy tigre settled too close to me. I know it's been a couple of months but I'm really upset by this." You have my word that I will negotiate with you as I would anyone else who came to me with an analogous grievance. Of course, if you accept my offer only to find that I have sneakily double-crossed you, you can always return to the public forum to reveal me for a liar. I assure you, however, that I am no liar. Spot on Brother.
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Posted By: Vermino
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 01:12
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jordigui: Thanks for your proposal. I would have accepted it at any time before or after the attacks, although the chain of events began with the initial aggressive moves by Tigre. Unluckily, I'm not dealing with someone reasonable as you are.
Ok, I sent you an in-game message, although we can discuss it here if you prefer. I have no hopes but talking can't do harm. My 19k town is as good as gone, but I'm intrigued on what you have to say. Let's see if you have something that might work or this is just public relations.
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Posted By: Raatalagk
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 02:22
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I would prefer to continue this without being gawked at. ;) IGM sent, Vermino.
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Posted By: tigre
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 16:25
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Thx to GM luna, I finaly got back my login's, and now I can talk ^^ Many things have been said, but I didn' speak yet ... The situation depicted by vermino is not quite corect, I feel Vermino initiate the struggle and the conflict ... It's 2 years for me too, I play the game, I don't feel like an evil player, bashing others ... this game is good game play, fun, and the oportunity meet people ... this is my version : I decided to move all my city's after the new fishing rule went live, I selected carefully the new locations on the map ... I looked if the players around the knew locations had many sov square, for Vermino it wasn't the case he didn't even claim all his adjacent square, so I never felt I will take away anything from him by moving 4,5 squares away, considering they was a river inbetween us, and 2 squares radius for a city is quite enough for sov ... I occupied the square for 2 weeks, and then started claiming sov, when I was at lev4 sov, vermino started claiming 103/-709 ... Wha, that was a surprise, this was 3,5 squares away from his city ... far away, as he had still free squares to claim adjecent to his city ! why should he do that ? My guess is when he saw my claim on the square, he decided he didn't want anyneigbours ... I felt this could be a problem for future, and when time would have been ripe, I would have talked with him on that ... Anyway, I reach lev 5 sov and exodus my city, I arrive, and things get much worse ... I receive IGM from Godestroyer and vermino and the fact that I was disturbing neigbourhood ... But I was disturbing only the twisted mind of Vermino ... he intimidate me with menace, and ask me to leave ... They was enough space for both of us, I didn't find that fair at all ... during my 5 days freeze after exodus, Vermino claimed two other squares, 104/-708 adjacent to my new city 4,5 away from his and 106/-708, 5.5 squares away from his !!! these are good food squares, he wanted clearly to cut my growing possibility and put pressure on me ... These squares are to far away from him, to be useful for his city ! this was a "casus belli", I have no other word, this is what I call "an act of war", claiming adjacent squares just to make understand you are not welcome is like hitting you ... The last words of vermino, where "don't chalenge me on these squares" ... 2 weeks latter, I decided to claim them .. then he attaked my claimers .. and then the rest of the story you know about ... we decided to duel .. But when vermino ask terms of surender, I said, move your city and give me 100 milion stuff .. he said that he could just only have 20 million gold, the poor guy had no money ... so finaly, we agreed on 50 million and his city would stay ... then by magic, I receive the report on one of his other city, over 200k of each adv resource and 25 million gold ... when vermino said he had dificulty to have 20million, can you belive that !! I was angry, and asked him 100k of all his adv resource, and the 25 million of his city .. of course vermino did not accept ... So, what do you think guys ? isn't this a fair figth agreed inbetweem 2 players, from wich one is a liar !!! can I raze his city ? must I ask aprovation from GC ? thx for reading tigre |
Posted By: jordigui
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 17:01
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A liar? I would just say that this part of the negotiation art. TH
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Posted By: SugarFree
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 17:15
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lol people have no honor anymore. ------------- Nuisance |
Posted By: Anjire
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 17:38
My questioning to determine liability would be: Which city was there first? Was the player with the oldest city notified prior to exodus regarding intent to settle within 5 of said city? And the big one: What is BSH's own policy regarding a member outside their alliance settling within 5 of one their member cities without prior notice? ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/26125" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: Brids17
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 17:53
Here's my issue with this. You both made an agreement for 50M gold. You then broke it, by sending diplos to spy on him and then later demanded more. If that were me, I'd have refused to pay a single gold to you. In fact, I'd see that as an act of war. You broke the agreement and are now trying to extort more gold and resources out of him now that you know he has more. If you wanted more in the first place, you shouldn't have agreed to take 50M. Did he lie to pay less? Well sure but anyone would have done that. He shouldn't have to pay anything to you. You moved in too close to him and tried to steal sov locations close to his city. 4.5 and 5.5 squares *IS NOT* too far from someones city. Not my any stretch of the imagination. |
Posted By: Silent/Steadfast
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 18:02
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Vermino's city was there first, Anjire. ------------- "Semantics are no protection from a 50 Megaton Thermonuclear Stormcrow."-Yggdrassil (June 21, 2011 6:48 PM) "SCROLL ya donut!" Urgorr The Old (September 1, 2011 4:08 PM) |
Posted By: Salararius
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 18:19
If you were going to talk, wouldn't that point have been the time? A 15 food sov at 3.6 distance gives a greater food boost per gold/research spent than a 5 food sov at 1.4 (the closest corner sovs). (15 percent benefit / 3.6 = 4.2 > 3.6 = 5 percent benefit / 1.4) Looking at Vermino's city location, that 15 food water sov that you placed your city directly adjacent to is the 5th most attractive sov square near Vermino's city. The better ones having values of 12, 7, 5 and 5. The worse ones having values of 3.6, 3.6, 3.6, 2.5, etc... When you put your city in that location doesn't it directly threaten one of his best sovs? I wouldn't be thrilled if someone moved directly next to my 5th best sov square. I might have tried to fight earlier. That's what I'd learn from this. Talk fast and then fight off the attempt quick before the other player can get established. |
Posted By: tigre
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 18:19
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my spies where 1day away, eveything happend had the same time with no bad thinking ... vermino thinks I'm the agressive player, when he forced me to leave or figth ... isn't this a wargame ? didn't we agree to have a duel ??? I don't won't gold or stuff, I want just the price I would have paid if I had lost the duel ... And the price was ou two city's ... |
Posted By: Tordenkaffen
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 18:26
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Right now Tigre should accept that he did not have right on his side when he invaded Vermino's domain which can put him at a disadvantage in his future relations with his neighbours - and at the same time Vermino should get busy trying to find an amicable middleground with Tigre as the risc of getting wiped out increases the longer the conflict persists. If Vermino doesnt really care that his cities are wiped then get it over with so that this issue can be laid to rest.
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Posted By: tigre
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 18:28
But he claimed the sov when my city was there, just exodused !! are you finding every excuse you can imagine to take his side ??? some of these squares where there since ever, he never claimed them ??? I'm not saying I'm in my rigth 100%, but we decided to duel, so this is rigth ... |
Posted By: SugarFree
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 18:32
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a duel is a duel. the loser has to obey to the winner. what is wrong whit that? even if it's a trick, once you agree on a fight mano a mano, the result is definitive. ------------- Nuisance |
Posted By: Hadus
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 18:48
I agree with this, but I also think that once the conditions are met, they must be held. To accept the winning conditions (50 Mill) and then demand more is absurd, regardless of what is foudn out afterward. I do think that, for the sake of future relations of the two alliances, that Tigre should move his city or at least give up the sov spots. But that is for the two parties to decide. ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/157483" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Rorgash
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 18:54
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If one would look at the map one would know pretty quickly why that sov holds no value to anyone but Tigre, its much cheaper for Vermino to buy food then try to hold sov there. ------------- 
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Posted By: G0DsDestroyer
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 19:11
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Hey all, just going to put a few things out there. I myself was going to move to the spot where Tigre's town is. I decided against it after Crow didn't want a confed and Vermino said he wanted sov on the fishery there. So i moved somewhere else, a place that wasn't a problem. When i move my cities via exodus I send messages to the people around the area and ask them if they have a problem with it, to avoid conflict, which was the opposite of what tigre did, since Vermino and I didn't get any message about him moving there, and as I believe someone else said, how would BSH or any other alliance react to someone popping up less than 5 squares from their cities? Just because Aesir isn't a top alliance doesn't mean you can just ignore common courtesy all the time. G0Ds ------------- http://live.xbox.com/en-US/MyXbox/Profile?gamertag=G0DsDestroyer" rel="nofollow - Tia mi aven Moridin isainde vadin |
Posted By: Malpherion
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 20:34
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Hmm, after hearing both sides of the story here's what I think should happen. Firstly, You both stay where you are: Tigre claims Sov around his city... Vermillo claims sov around his city... Secondly, Forget about compensation Tigre, you were in the wrong exodus there without asking. Forget about the Sov around Tigre's city Vermillo, its really too far away to be worthwhile. Thirdly, Recall both your seiges on each others towns and get on with living in peace. There is plenty of room for you both to live there. Malph "Starry is having to much influence on Malph, all this peace business, what next?" |
Posted By: Brids17
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 20:52
Just because someone doesn't claim sov the very moment they can does not mean they don't plan to. I still have sov near my cities that I haven't grabbed yet and most of them are at their max pop. People grab things at their own pace. Just because I'm taking my time grabbing sov spots around my city On Mah Radar, does not mean I'm gong to accept someone moving next to it and grabbing those spots. And I'm not looking for an excuse to take his side. I'm tell you, you moved in too close and without permission and that was wrong. Furthermore, I'm telling you it's dishonorable to agree to some terms and then demand for more when you find out he has more. If the spies were already out when the agreement was made you should have said "Hey, I have spies headed to your cities, they're already on their way so I hope this doesn't change things". I do thing he handled it poorly. He should have asked you move and never agreed to a duel in the first place. 99% of the time when there's a dispute both sides have does something wrong. I don't mean to say it's all your fault, there was obviously a severe lack of communication on his part. |
Posted By: Raatalagk
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 20:57
I also view this as an acceptable compromise, making the best of a bad situation. I believe tigre would agree to this as well, though of course he can speak for himself. Vermino, I know we are in the midst of discussing this issue via IGM, but I would be more than happy to settle things immediately with Malpherion's proposal as binding contract, verbatim.
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Posted By: Binky the Berserker
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 21:00
| wow so many people involved in one duel. Shouldn't people let them sort things out themselves? I can't believe all of you really know all details on the subject, so why judge any side? Where 2 fight, 2 are guilty (my grandma used to say that and you know, grandma knows best). The more I read about this subject the more I'm convinced both sides made their mistakes. Give them a chance to solve things. |
Posted By: Rorgash
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 21:07
Hey i planned on taking those sov sq, get away or you will face me!! i thought to claim them before you surely!!! -------------
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Posted By: Silent/Steadfast
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 21:16
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If someone settled right next to you, and you hadn't claimed your sov yet because you weren't big enough to need it, wouldn't you hurry up and claim it? Vermino didn't think that someone would walk in on him, so he didn't claim sov he had no use for. ------------- "Semantics are no protection from a 50 Megaton Thermonuclear Stormcrow."-Yggdrassil (June 21, 2011 6:48 PM) "SCROLL ya donut!" Urgorr The Old (September 1, 2011 4:08 PM) |
Posted By: Aurordan
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 22:02
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So I have a question: What exactly where the terms of this duel and why would Vermino have to pay 50 million to get out of it?
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Posted By: Rorgash
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 22:29
i guess you never thought to gather more info before wanting to take a side but the sov isnt next to Vermino but instead next to Tigre and would cost Vermino like 20 times more gold then what the food would cost to buy having sov there... so that is not a excuse or reason or what you might want to find -------------
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Posted By: Hadus
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 22:32
------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/157483" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Silent/Steadfast
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 22:43
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I have taken a look at the situation Rorgash, long before posting the above comment, and I believe that the sov still would have been useful for Vermino to have. The cost in gold would be around 500 per level for two of them and and around 700 per level for one. I have known people to claim lower sov levels that are more distant than that in order to make their city large, and as for gold, for a city of around 25k pop the bonus given in gold outweighs the cost in gold by quite a bit. Even if he didn't desire for the sov to be useful to him in gold, the combined food bonus (44%) is a significant one. As for taking sides, I believe it is my business to side with Vermino as he is currently in my alliance. Perhaps you are the one who should do his homework more often. Or maybe it's just that you folks in BSH do things differently. " rel="nofollow - ------------- "Semantics are no protection from a 50 Megaton Thermonuclear Stormcrow."-Yggdrassil (June 21, 2011 6:48 PM) "SCROLL ya donut!" Urgorr The Old (September 1, 2011 4:08 PM) |
Posted By: Salararius
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 23:00
That spot is 3.6 from Vermino's city, which means sov V would cost 1,800 gold / hour. Sov at that square would return 15% food at sov V. Since Vermino's city is a 5 food plot city the most the distant square can increase food production by is 1,510.5 food / hour. That's equal to paying 1.19 gold / food. Where can you buy food constantly and consistently 24/7 at 1.19 gold? To compare, the 5 food squares 1.4 from Vermino's city return food at about 1.4 gold / food, which is clearly worse. By the declaration made, BSH should not mind if anyone sovs 5 food squares 1.4 or further from their 5 food plot cities because BSH can buy food cheaper than that? Maybe I screwed up the math but I think that declaration stinks. It's not cheaper to buy food, that's a good sov spot for Vermino that Tigre took. |
Posted By: Rorgash
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 23:17
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considering that Tigre claimed it first your last statement is not correct, but i guess my math was abit off yes. so it goes even on food. oh well Vermino asked for a dual and he got it, no need to talk about this anymore :)
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Posted By: Brids17
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2012 at 23:50
Tigre didn't claim it first, he moved into his area and then counter claimed it. Even Tigre admitted this. Have you even bothered to read the thread or talk to your own alliance member about this? |
Posted By: Vermino
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2012 at 02:43
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Tigre: I will say nothing about your post. You have given a fine picture of yourself. In any case, I consider the duel finished the moment I accepted Tigre's winning conditions and then he tried to extort me. Tigre: you won, but from the moment I surrendered accepting your conditions and you kept on massacring me it's overkill. I have already received some messages from people who find this behavior from Tigre and BSH outrageous. It's late for me but if someone else wants to prevent this from happening to other BSH victims, please send me an IGM. I stand by what I said on my first post.
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Posted By: Jane DarkMagic
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2012 at 04:43
| I can't believe Tigre's alliance is supporting his claim. Seems diplomatically unwise to make such a precedent. Your saying anyone can settle 4 squares from BSH members and start claiming all the sov they want. |
Posted By: Raatalagk
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2012 at 05:18
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Jane, if you read the whole thread, you'll see that's not what we're doing at all. This would have been resolved very differently if it had been handled in a calm and timely fashion. Instead, we're months late and there's been a duel in the meantime. And all this has been discussed ad nauseam. Vermino, I offered for tigre to lift his siege and immediately cease all hostilities, and for you two to work on hammering out a sov agreement up front stipulating who would have claim to which tiles. Actually my offer was very similar to what Malph proposed above. I even offered to ask tigre to lift his siege before any details were settled (and so, in effect, before you had to commit to anything), in an attempt to mitigate the damage to your city. But you refused to accept any proposal I made unless it involved tigre's exodus. To say that my talk was cheap and that my best offer was to exodus your city is a ludicrous distortion of our discussion, which I thought had been undertaken in good faith. It's not surprising that I couldn't negotiate with you given that you weren't willing to budge an inch on any front.
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Posted By: Jane DarkMagic
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2012 at 05:34
| I did read the whole thread. It's a juicy one. |
Posted By: abstractdream
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2012 at 05:51
What we are witnessing is a strategy. How successful it is is somewhat subjective. It is true that if the OP was allowed to do as he pleased (whether it be expelling his adversary or what have you) this strategy would have tangible success but the actual objective, in my opinion is to limit damage, which is much more difficult to measure. edited to add: I know my comments are off topic but I just can't resist adding: On a personal note, I'd like to point out how ironic it is that the only member of Aesir to successfully siege and raze a TLR town in their self proclaimed crusade is now in the hot seat. Interesting that once the shoe is on the other foot, things seem.... somehow different, hmm? ------------- |
Posted By: Beecks
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2012 at 06:06
If the point of this thread was to make BSH leadership look unreasonable it hasn't worked. Raatalagk seems to be doing everything he can to help the OP extract himself from the situation he finds himself in.
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Posted By: SugarFree
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2012 at 06:18
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i can't believe people think they can tell everyone what is right and what not. this i neither extortion, nor anything, it's an issue blown out of proportion by a sour loser that can't get to acknowledge his loss. there is no reason for any other than the concerned people to but into this in the first place. ------------- Nuisance |
Posted By: tigre
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2012 at 09:14
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Maybe it's true that I should have asked Vermino, some others player I moved close I did when I exodused, because I felt I could disturb ... We are both agressive players, and this lead us to struggle, but this is also what's the game is about ! our alliance AESIR & BSH (I don't know why Vermino changed during duel to REALM..), decided for us for duel, and we accepted ... I had only 80 k troops a that moment, for a 130k pop player !? I had that numbers when I was 70k pop ... So I was far from prepared and far of thinking I would win the duel ... Believe me or not, I was nearly shure I would loose my city ... Now then, me bringing down his city to raze situation, I offered Vermino a way out by exodusing his city, because it's no fun to loose a city ... No answer from Vermino since, but his thieves are still hitting me hard to make his treasure grow to infinite numbers ! So this is it, I decided to raze his city (city was down to 73 pop), for me the duel is finished now ... I won't keep no bad thinking about Vermino, I hope he will stop sending his thief and accept in silence his defeat ... thx Tigre |
Posted By: Southern Dwarf
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2012 at 09:54
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Some of us do not play this game for warfare so I wonder about 70k troops at all since I am nowhere near that number at the moment and I got 85k pop. ------------- Also known as Afaslizo ingame. |
Posted By: abstractdream
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2012 at 10:06
The gentle players do not get themselves into these sorts of situations, or if they do, they have a big alliance to scare their enemies into submission. If you are large in pop but small in troops, you should play it safe. The OP clearly did not think that playing it safe was warranted. Consequences are a beach. ------------- |
Posted By: Vermino
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2012 at 10:26
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Congrats Tigre! Everything is going better than expected for you and you got away with everything you wanted, fully supported by BSH. You are getting away with things you'd never been allowed when you were in Valar. The future looks bright and shiny for you. But sorry, I won't remain silent as you request. You needn't lie, except to cover your abuse, like when you proposed terms and changed your mind after I accepted. (you sure were surprised that the wronged part in this issue accepted your unreasonable demands). The 80 k troops is another needless lie (how many are a "sea" of siegers?). I can produce the numbers if needed, but its pointless. You chose your time very well, right after the war abstractdream talked about finished and I was extremely weak on troops, and you accepted because you had intel from my towns provided by BSH and your own scouts. Raatalagk, you also played your role very well, with empty promises that never materialized about halting the siege if I later accepted your demands. It was ridiculous asking a ransom of 50 million for a town in ruins or to exodus the few stones that were left standing. Were we "months" late in the talking? I talked to Tigre a month and a half ago, when he just exodused. You both managed time very well, letting things rot on purpose. How unfortunate that Tigre was never available during our talks while my town was being burned down, when during the previous week he had been online several times a day to send attacks. a few final notes: abstractdream, I razed your town during a war and you never complained about it, because there was no reason to complain. I am not exactly complaining about my razed town, but about the extortion I been subjected to and the unfairness and bullying involved all along. SugarFree, you acusse me of being emotional, but you also show a remarkable emotion: unconditional love for your friends regardless of what they do. It doesn't allow for a lot of argument, but it sure allows for snide remarks. I hope to have achieved at least partially the purpose of this thread: to put some restrain in BSH bullying and that their victims have a slightly better chance. Sadly, even if I'm successful in this they will eventually go back to their old ways. Nothing has changed in Tigre since the time he was in Valar.
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Posted By: tigre
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2012 at 11:46
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Blablabla ... Vermino, I have no fear of your words, my estimation is 80k, make me a liar, be my guest ^^ I had no intel from anyone, and BHS didn't suport me, only when I asked help after you received some from you alliance that was AESIR at that time ... I was always available these days for talking, you just never took time to write to me again and propose me a new deal ??? did you ??? you could have proposed me 100k, that was my fisrt offer before you started crying you where a poor player with no resource ... My proposal for you exodusing was fair, you still had 5k pop in it ... you twist words and time to claim injustice on yourself, when you had everything at hand to resolve situation ... never wanted to spoil you from your wealth, I have my own and happy about it ... Anyway, I'm curious to listen to the people a was nasty with !? never felt like a bully guy .. don't wan't to be one ... and if so, I'm willing to apologies and learn from it, so do me a favour, let me know where a was evil and nasty ??? BTW, I also have IGM from other players speaking bad about you, I wouldn't be so proud of yourself ... |
Posted By: Grego
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2012 at 13:28
I won't judge who is right or wrong, but here is little advice for BSH: Don't settle near Absa cities or..
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Posted By: Juswin
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2012 at 13:43
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The two involved in the duel should sort things out themselves, and any consequence of that is due to their handling in the matter. That being said, I agree with the majority (maybe) of the players here that it is not right to exodus very near someone's town without telling him beforehand. A little communication could have worked wonders and avoided this situation in the first place. Vermino and tigre may have handled things badly in terms of negotiation, but this wouldn't have happened if tigre did not just jump in 4.5 squares from Vermino's town, which was there first. ------------- It may be that you are right. Then again, you may be wrong. http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/57903" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2012 at 15:45
| 70k troops is alot ????? oh one was playing heavy dip forces, the dip player should have never agreed to duel unless he had troops from his alt in defense for his dip account, some good t1 defense troops and high walls with a prestige boost would have made piecemeal of just 70k troops but strategy of many dip forces is always hard to counter....i cant wait for this game to explode into warfare, there are so many strategies to play! remember u can store troops from your alt in you dip account..t1 spears and t1 bows pretty inexpensive, u can defend two castles from attack from one castle, single attacker is always at disadvantage..heavy dip castle should have t1s from other castles always stationed there for protection...thanks for sharing your duel..sounds like it was fun, always feel free to igm me about war strategies....send igms to twilights account |
Posted By: Hadus
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2012 at 18:36
Calm down, no one's "telling everyone whats right and what's not." They're sharing their opinion on a public forum. If they wanted to settle this in private, they'd stick to IGMs. ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/157483" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Rorgash
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2012 at 18:46
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that would be the OP Vermino and not Tigre, not they :) -------------
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Posted By: Gossip Boy
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2012 at 20:20
I surely don't know what all that has happened between two of the most well known player in the game at the moment (oh yeah,both of you nailed it  )I propose the following solution 1)Tigre gets to keep his city + (all the sov <=2 distance from his city - sov which are <=3 squares from vermilon's city).....i think tigre must agree to this as he himself feels that 2 sq radius is enough. 2)All the hostilities between the players must stop now. 3)No one pays anything to anyone.....but Tigre and BSH will help vermilon in rebuilding his town just to alleviate the pain of war and keeping in spirit with the illy way. Cheers ------------- Elessar2 [08:34]<Rill> when you've just had part of your brain taken out, you lack a certain amount of credibility <KillerPoodle> I can say anything I like and it is impossible to prove or disprove |
Posted By: Hadus
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2012 at 22:02
Well, there was little need for Tigre to post in the thread considering more than one of his alliance-mates were already representing him here. He hasn't exactly been adamant about keeping it off the forums.
But yes, Vermino did bring it up. ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/157483" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: JimJams
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2012 at 00:31
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So, this started with Tigre settling 5 squares from another city, and ended with Vermino city razed? One more reason to wipe away anyone settling so near. ------------- 
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Posted By: scaramouche
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2012 at 10:01
This part i find amusing...the victim has to concede to this solution? I know I aint alone in my train of thoughts but numero uno consideration to take into account when moving cities about is " Always respect other players borders " Take that away and then your asking for conflict, which seems to me, to be Tigres objective, Tigre I think, now realises he approached this is the wrong way and so does the BSH leadership, either that or they are just living up to their profile statement, ( which BTW is pretty cool )
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Posted By: Magnificence
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2012 at 22:48
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BSH Must Die. This we know. Troll away!
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Posted By: Uno
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2012 at 12:32
I sort of disagree. Exactly because it was a duel, which is supposed to be a honorable match in my book, the terms should have been set before the start of it. Setting terms once you are the victor, demanding everything and more, is far from that picture. At this point I think they should try to find a mediation or mediator.
------------- Eréc of Caer Uisc King of Dyfneint Indomiti Alliance |
Posted By: SugarFree
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2012 at 12:59
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if one part had more army than the other, but still the weak part agreed on the duel to wash his "honor" clean, and lost, he has no right to come here and cry!
------------- Nuisance |
Posted By: Mona Lisa
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2012 at 18:40
Seems like lessons learned all around from this one . . . "Love thy neighbor.." or if not... make sure he doesn't stay in your "personal" space long enough to develop some form of squatter's rights . . . ------------- 
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Posted By: Loud Whispers
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2012 at 21:24
So if you make a mistake and are in need of help you're no longer entitled the right to ask for help?
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Posted By: Aurordan
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2012 at 21:51
| I'll ask again, because I feel this is important: What, exactly, where the terms agreed to for this duel? |
Posted By: SugarFree
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2012 at 22:11
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yea, i accept the challenge, lose and suddenly i need help. yea right. if i would find me in a situation that would require the attention of this forum i would had done so long before accepting some kind of challenge. and if i had accepted the challenge, i would had made sure i would win it. cause if i agree on something i give my word on that. and would accept defeat and probably exodus the hell out of there. ------------- Nuisance |
Posted By: Uno
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2012 at 14:58
From what I gather, none. Which is the only real lesson that should be learned from the story but that everyone is ignoring. ------------- Eréc of Caer Uisc King of Dyfneint Indomiti Alliance |
Posted By: Hadus
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2012 at 15:04
You forgot: 1. Don't settle within 10 squares of someone without asking. 2. Don't keep your mouth shut if someone settles within 10 squares without asking. 3. Don't agree to a futile 1v1 battle in order to "save" your alliance when the whole point of an alliance is to BE YOUR ALLIES. 4. Don't agree to a settlement of 50 million gold, then change your mind and demand more after you realize you were totally played. ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/157483" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Uno
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2012 at 16:29
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well I think those are player specific lesson learned. Who knows, maybe other players wouldn't have behaved like Vermino and would have been dear friends with Tigre. About setting terms prior to a duel though I think there is little room for opinions. ------------- Eréc of Caer Uisc King of Dyfneint Indomiti Alliance |
Posted By: Hadus
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2012 at 05:13
------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/157483" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2012 at 12:49
| sounds like it was alot of fun, maybe the whole game should take note and lets make a 20 square rule and duel over it, make the game alot more exciting! |
Posted By: Hadus
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2012 at 14:44
Don't see why not (although the 20 square rule might not be necessary). If you got the guts to put both your communicatin' and fightin' skills to the test, go for it. Heck, build a whole alliance dedicated to claiming rare spots if you want. ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/157483" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Sinatra
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2012 at 23:36
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Is this a pattern? Or is it just a single example of being rude not to ask to settle this close? http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/World/Map/546/130 Toothless, doesn't mind, but still....
------------- Vice Chancellor of External Affairs Toothless? Alliance Illyriad's First & Oldest Training Alliance |
Posted By: Raatalagk
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2012 at 23:52
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What I find rude is a having an issue with someone and deciding to post it directly to the forums without first approaching the offending player directly. Disputes about players settling too close to existing cities are one of the most common sources of tension in Illy. Typically, they can be resolved amicably with a few simple IGMs. I have mediated several such exchanges myself. Passive aggressive complaining on the forums is not a great first step. Sinatra, if you are so inclined, please IGM me. I do not plan to continue this spectacle here.
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Posted By: Makanalani
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2012 at 19:19
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^ agreed. -Mak ------------- "Life is a beautiful struggle" -New IGN: Mak (Dark Blight) |
Posted By: Rasak
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2012 at 22:22
I'm kinda late to the party I know, but I believe it is a valid question and related to this topic. Is it a habit to settle close to other people's cities and not inform them?
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Posted By: Kilotov V2.0
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2012 at 22:38
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actually, depends on your tolerance to such acts. rest sure that things like that are frowned upon by many. consequences can go from a mail scolding, to forcing exodus to straight siege.
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Posted By: SunStorm
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2012 at 19:29
Just in case anyone had forgotten this post, I have searched for and revived it for this thread. (BTW, It would be nice if the BSH had this link on their page for easy reference - since I believe it is still valid.) I find these actions detestable. More than that, I find them to be in violation of the diplomatic statement that has been previously released --> "they may remain in Mal Motsha, and suffer no aggression from the Nation" (see above item 1c). Why should someone be threatened and then feel obligated to enter a dual just to keep their home? The fact that this dual was agreed upon by the BSH (when it is contrary to their diplomacy claim) is absurd. Should we disregard this older post in light of newer posts (though not official voices in a diplomatic capacity)?
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Posted By: Aurordan
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2012 at 22:06
Is it really news for an alliance to pay lip service to tolerance while attempting to advance their own agenda where they can get away with it?
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Posted By: SunStorm
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2012 at 22:25
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Well, I personally thought higher of BSH then this... Their joint Tcol post was well thought out and showed that they were different from the former alliance that tried to take over Mal Motsha. After reading this thread, I looked for this player's city - it is no longer there. They either used exodus or were razed. Shameful is what it is. BSH's reputation may never completely recover. -------------
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