Poll: Harvesting Rules
Printed From: Illyriad
Category: The World
Forum Name: Elgea
Forum Description: For everything related to the Elgea Continent
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=4055
Printed Date: 17 Apr 2022 at 08:41 Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Poll: Harvesting Rules
Posted By: Silent/Steadfast
Subject: Poll: Harvesting Rules
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2012 at 18:10
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This poll was created in an effort to establish an accepted distance for harvesting. If you wish to give your input on any of the poll choices, simply tick off the one that you agree with and explain why you think it is the best. Additionally, if you have a theory on harvesting that is not addressed in the poll choices, explain it below.
You may no longer select multiple answers as this is easily exploitable.
------------- "Semantics are no protection from a 50 Megaton Thermonuclear Stormcrow."-Yggdrassil (June 21, 2011 6:48 PM) "SCROLL ya donut!" Urgorr The Old (September 1, 2011 4:08 PM)
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Replies:
Posted By: SugarFree
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2012 at 18:24
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lol what a pile of garbage. i would say this is not something you can decide on a poll in a forum. things are more complex than just those options you give. i dare to say, it's pointless.
------------- Nuisance
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Posted By: Tordenkaffen
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2012 at 18:28
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Harvest near anyone you can beat up - simple aint it?
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Posted By: Silent/Steadfast
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2012 at 18:32
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@Sugarfree:
Indeed it is more complex than the options given, which is why there is space below the poll to comment on what you think the true answer is. I note you have used this space to tell me why my options are bad without telling me what a good option would be. Maybe you could take some time to do so?
------------- "Semantics are no protection from a 50 Megaton Thermonuclear Stormcrow."-Yggdrassil (June 21, 2011 6:48 PM) "SCROLL ya donut!" Urgorr The Old (September 1, 2011 4:08 PM)
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Posted By: LordOfTheSwamp
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2012 at 18:39
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I'm not sure that hard and fast "do not" statements are the most useful here.
For example, if a res square is 5 from another player, and if you know they aren't harvesting from it, then heading in and responsibly harvesting would seem entirely reasonable. However, if they are harvesting, the deliberately bumping would seem rude, camping on it would seem obnoxious, and harvesting to destruction would seem outright aggressive.
In the last couple of weeks I'm aware (as, for my sins, I have "Diplomat" in my alliance role) of around twenty instances of people harvesting within 5 or 10 of a city: * In a couple of cases I only know because we got a "I'm harvesting here, but tell me if you'd rather I didn't email". * In half the remaining cases, nobody much cared. * In the cases where it was an issue, almost all cases were resolved by an email saying "err, you don't really have a claim to that - what are you planning?" - in these cases a quick discussion led to an amicable agreement (generally in favour of whoever is closer, but sometimes with more complex arrangements based on who is actually going to invest in gatherer units.) * In one case, we sent the usual friendly email, and got in return a "rah! I will fight for that square, even tho it's miles from me!" reply. * In one case, someone just sent in troops.
So, in summary...
I'm seeing lots of cases where harvesting is occurring close to towns, but generally people are being reasonable about it.
There is nothing in this new game feature that forces people to behave like jerks. If a minority do choose to be aggressive, then that's exactly what it is - their choice. It's not an inevitable function of the game.
The best way to deal with this, IMHO, is simply to continue to behave reasonably, rather than to expect any hard and fast rule to be adopted.
The question for "the community" may not be "what should the rule be?", but "what (if anything) do we do about the jerks?"
------------- "A boy is building sandcastles on a beach. You go and kick down his castle. You could say that it only reflects how you play with sandcastles. Others may think it reflects who you are." - Ander.
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Posted By: Sloter
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2012 at 18:48
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I voted twice for option i like (never harvest within 5sq)
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Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2012 at 18:56
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I tend to agree with Kurdruk, with the caveat that I have to continually ask myself if I am the one being the jerk. I really like vistrok flowers. They're pretty.
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Posted By: bansisdead
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2012 at 18:56
I would like to see people scouting rare plots first more often, as I've lost a couple of close plots due to confeds raping them. One plot I had maintained for nearly 3 weeks before a sneaky confed destroyed it whilst I slept...
------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/124253" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Hadus
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2012 at 19:01
I voted for asking within 10 squares, as it is my personal policy. However, I don't think it is wise to expect a reliable outcome from this poll, nor would I expect that even if something was agreed on, it would be followed. There are just too many factors in play to standardize an accepted distance, I believe. My policy is based on the fact that I am not strong enough to deal with an upset player, and so air on the side of caution by asking even when it seems unnecessary. Certainly different players in different regions with different military and diploatic forces will have different opinions on the matter.
------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/157483" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Rorgash
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2012 at 19:55
bah this is stupid..
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Posted By: Silent/Steadfast
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2012 at 20:07
No more multiple answers.
------------- "Semantics are no protection from a 50 Megaton Thermonuclear Stormcrow."-Yggdrassil (June 21, 2011 6:48 PM) "SCROLL ya donut!" Urgorr The Old (September 1, 2011 4:08 PM)
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Posted By: Elf Dragon
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2012 at 21:17
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I'm harvesting where I want, but I'm trying not to interrupt other harvesters
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Posted By: Quackers
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2012 at 21:23
Just do not get mad when you get bumped if you harvest where you want. Or get your specialists destroyed.
------------- Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business and to work with your hands, so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so you will not be dependent on anybody.
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Posted By: Salararius
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2012 at 21:26
LordOfTheSwamp wrote:
[lots of word] |
My thoughts exactly, this should be a choice on the poll.
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Posted By: dunnoob
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2012 at 03:02
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FWIW, apparently I was the first to click "ask before harvesting foreign sov", but it's actually the other way around, I avoid foreign sov. If I nevertheless ended up on foreign sov I sent an apology to the owner.
It also depends on the goods: In a bumping contest for traditional resources it can be a goal to bump all vans of the opposition, even on foreign sov. But my last all out bumping contest was months ago, it's too annoying to bump innocent third parties, and send them vans with what they tried to get as apology.
For new trade v2 resources under bumping rules the nearer town typically wins in a bumping contest, same idea as for trade v1 resources. And unlike caravans cotters and gathereres have the same speed for all players, bumping is now arguably fairer. OTOH nearer can be anything, it depends on the distances from town A and B to rare resource R. I fail to see the point of a fixed radius; potential sov is not the same as claimed sov.
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Posted By: Mogul
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2012 at 09:28
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Interesting options... i woted for "Harvest anywhere but sov squares", but none of those options is used and probably none of them will be used.
Currently it is more like: Harvest anywhere where you managed to put your army. (because you was lucky to be online when rare harvestables appear?)
Interesting how people say that bumping is normal on basic resources and putting armies there and killing other caravans is rude/hostile but for less common stuff their opinion change. Personaly I send 40 herbalists to some empty rare herb location every day and then hope that there will be no <beep> player putting army on that spot before they arrive (or after).
If you think you own that spot then claim it properly and if it is too far away for SoV maintenance costs then... gtfo or accept fighting because you was the one who started it with occupying army.
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Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2012 at 10:42
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not many people voting, something wrong here
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Posted By: Rorgash
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2012 at 11:31
lol Mogul, so you are one of those that keep destroying spots on the map instead of trying to get more out of them..
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Posted By: Kabu
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2012 at 13:36
Generally speaking, I'd say ask if within 5 squares, referring to the 5 squares of breathing space usually assumed for sovereignty, but it's a bit more complex than that.
For wood, clay, iron, stone, food and gold, there's probably no need to ask unless the town is small and needs the boost.
For normal herbs, ore and hides, I wouldn't ask if there are plenty to go around.
For rare resources though, I'd look at what's available in the region, how many neighbours I have and how big their towns are, how big their alliances are, and then come to an agreement if there's a lot of bumping.
Of course if you're powerful, you can skip the whole process and claim the squares by force. Then it's all about politics and maybe war. But that's the whole point, isn't it? I bet the aim was to create a system where you can't solve most problems with a single simple consensus, like the 10 square rule for settling cities.
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Posted By: Binky the Berserker
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2012 at 15:52
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Harvest where you want except sov squares! Also people should stop occupying squares all the time. Just send the army for the time it takes to do the harvesting or maybe a few days. Let others have some of the stuff as well I understand people who occupy spots within 5-10 squares of their town that are not sov, but I've seen armies of players who's town is way further then my own, that's just annoying. Esspecially if they never intend to leave the spot. I agree with Mogul on that part.
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Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2012 at 16:43
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In a few places, with some ubercool neighbors, we have several harvestable squares with no armies on them. All the neighbors gather with care not to exhaust herbs and minimize bumps.
I don't mind anyone gathering from my sovereign squares either.
Where I do not have close neighbors, I keep an army on resources I want. This is to - 1. Avoid wandering critters occupying the square. 2. Avoid someone else sending an army from a far away city to the square and telling me the square now squarely belongs to him.
2 is very likely to happen if you have valuable resources near. I sympathize with what Mogul and Binky said. But unless you have some agreements with neighbors, keep an army on the resources you want. If you take back an occupied square from an alliance bigger than yours, they will call you a bully and come after you.
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Posted By: Rhea
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2012 at 21:32
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Should also have a choice about harvesting where there are troops -- especially for those that are NAP.
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Posted By: Diomedes
Date Posted: 23 Aug 2012 at 02:03
I'm concerned at the apparent number of players prepared to harvest anywhere without asking - if they choose to harvest near me, they do so at their peril no matter the outcome of the survey
------------- "Walk in the way of the good, for the righteous will dwell in the land"
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Posted By: Quackers
Date Posted: 23 Aug 2012 at 02:35
Diomedes wrote:
I'm concerned at the apparent number of players prepared to harvest anywhere without asking - if they choose to harvest near me, they do so at their peril no matter the outcome of the survey |
That was back when the poll was open for people to vote more then once. So someone voted tons of times on that just to shoot it up.
------------- Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business and to work with your hands, so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so you will not be dependent on anybody.
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Posted By: Rorgash
Date Posted: 23 Aug 2012 at 08:31
you think that? i think people just want to harvest anywhere they like, and ofcourse Diomedes, if you harvest where i want or even just somewhere i see your yellow vans i will send troops to kill them aswell :)
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Posted By: Diomedes
Date Posted: 23 Aug 2012 at 10:43
Too bad, we're a bit too distant from each other Rorgash - it could be an interesting contest, hehe
------------- "Walk in the way of the good, for the righteous will dwell in the land"
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Posted By: Uno
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2012 at 13:53
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Harvest anywhere. As simple as it is, there is nothing complicated except for those who want to rule and police what was free and worked well until July the 31st 2012. Someone comes from 100 distance to bump you on your sov squares at 2 distance from your town? Perfect, you bump them back all the times necessary, they go back with nothing until ppl realizes it's just silly to do it. You aren't happy you can still camp the resource at your army's own risk.
------------- Eréc of Caer Uisc King of Dyfneint Indomiti Alliance
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