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Non-Response Ettiquiette

Printed From: Illyriad
Category: Strategies, Guides & Help
Forum Name: General Questions
Forum Description: If your gameplay question isn't answered in the help files, please post it here.
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=3736
Printed Date: 17 Apr 2022 at 07:27
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Non-Response Ettiquiette
Posted By: Salararius
Subject: Non-Response Ettiquiette
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2012 at 13:14
What is the consensus on people that do not respond to IGMs?  Is it rude?  Is it hostile (in a passive aggressive sense)?  Is it disrespectful?

Yes, it's a game, but there is a significant social aspect to any MMO game and I'm not talking about chat (I don't really do that) I'm talking about an introductory IGM simply saying "hi" between players with cities near one another.

If you send out a message and get no reply (not even a perfunctory one), how do you feel (react, pre-judge, etc...)?




Replies:
Posted By: invictusa
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2012 at 13:20
Reads an IGM and never replies?  It pisses me off.  I came close to losing my cool over it and making him/her sorry for not responding, but one of my alliances gave me stand down orders.

In this particular case the person was likely being perma-sat.  Perhaps that is what the situation is in most of these cases.


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...and miles to go before I sleep.


Posted By: HonoredMule
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2012 at 13:36
When people read an email and then decide they shouldn't handle it personally (i.e. sitting for another) they should mark the email unread.  I don't know if that affects whether it appears read to the sender, but it probably does.

Recipients should always have the courtesy to provide at least a polite acknowledgement of having been addressed, but a) there may be exceptions in the form of high-profile players who get a lot of unsolicited messages, and b) failing to respond is far from a punishable offense.

If someone won't reply to me, I may be miffed but unless there's an actual conflict to resolve I let it go and don't bother attempting any further communication.


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"Apparently, quoting me is a 'thing' now."
- HonoredMule


Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2012 at 13:59
yes u have to remember that people only have to log in every so often in this game, if a person is babysitting an account they usually dont go into mail and to answer could be in violation of representing yourself as another person in the game, i wouldnt be alarmed, i would just be aware and make a personal note to watch that account, watch the caravans coming back and forth and to which other accounts and then contact those people who if the account is being babysat can  respond to ur mails, if u see no activity then the account might be inactive


Posted By: abstractdream
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2012 at 14:06
HM's reply reflects my opinion as well.

Marking as unread does show on the senders end. I have seen a message I sent that was showing as read show as unread later (the recipiant wanted to get back to it later and does get lots of mail) so I know that works.

High profile players will often not respond to mail, whether on purpose or accidentally because of the sheer numbers. I do as HM suggests, "let it go and don't bother attempting any further communication."

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Bonfyr Verboo


Posted By: geofrey
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2012 at 15:27
If you would like a reply and are not getting it, and the matter is of upmost importance. A trade blockade is a good way to get their attention without destroying anything. 

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http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/45534" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: bansisdead
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2012 at 15:28
If I was walking down my street and I saw a neighbour, I would say hello, if they did not respond to me I would think how rude, but in no way would I 'declare war on them'.  I certainly wouldn't waste my time getting worked up over a non responsive email, especially in a game I chose to play and enjoy.  I just think f*** it, nvm...  In the last couple of weeks Ive sent out about 40 mails related to recruiting for an alliance, I have had 3 replies...  Live and let live...


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http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/124253" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2012 at 16:17
Sending an unsolicited mail places no obligation on the recipient to do anything.  If you send a mail making a request/demand, a non-response will indicate either a technical difficulty or a rejection of the request.  I reckon it is up to the sender to attempt a follow-up depending on the specific circumstances.

I receive a significant number of mails (most, by far) that are very poorly written - failing to specify the "who, what, when, where, how, and why" and failing to state a desired remedy.  [Often times, it seems these mails assume I can hear the voices in the head of the author, too - which I can not - so the author will need to tell me what is in his head.]  My position is that if the writer is unwilling to provide me with the foregoing in the initial communication, then I am not going to spend my time attempting to gather the information on my own.

I also see a lot of mails that suggest the author (incorrectly) believes that threats/rants/CAPS/personal insults are effective means of communication and dispute resolution.  Mails like these are easily ignored.

Finally, if I have stated my position and receive a reply attempting to re-argue the same matter, I will typically not respond as I would only be repeating myself which wastes everyone's time.


Posted By: Salararius
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2012 at 16:55
Hmmm, some very insightful points.  From the responses it seems that there are cases of "reasonable" communication that I would say one could expect replies from and cases of "unreasonable" communications that one could not.

If I'm a "high profile" player and a player who is 300 squares away from my nearest city sends an IGM asking for help (in any manner) it seems "unreasonable" for him to expect a reply.

If I settle a town closer to another's cities than anyone else and they try to open the lines of communication with a gift of resources and an IGM then is it "reasonable" for them to expect a "hello neighbor" back?

If you are the contact point for you alliance is it "reasonable" that you will have set up a structure such that you can respond to people who want to contact your alliance.  This need not be as simple as an answer to every IGM but a combination of that with instructions and/or requirements on the alliance page for contacts (RTFM applies here).

If you've contacted a large alliance isn't it "unreasonable" to expect a response within a week?

If I've sent you five (or even two) IGMs asking the same question in the last day isn't it "unreasonable" for me to expect another reply?

I don't understand why it's unreasonable to expect a sitter to reply with some sort of "I'll get back to you in 1 week (or 2 or 1 month, etc...)" sort of delay for "reasonable" communications?

I heard some talk about how "busy" some are.  If a player is too busy to send any sort of response to "reasonable" contact (very limited quantity), then why are they playing a MMO in the first place?

I think that lines of communication are important.  I think that any player who chooses to ignore "reasonable" communications should not be surprised if it results in a hostile response.  This is how I try to play.  I don't necessarily think that it be open war but that player shouldn't be surprised by some opportunistic thieving or a chilly relationship.  This isn't Farmville, at some level this is a game of conflict and I think that ignoring communications is a step (a tiny one in most instances) in that direction.

I don't know, I'm still thinking this through.


Posted By: bansisdead
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2012 at 17:06
Salararius, I don't think its reasonable or unreasonable to expect a response from a mail, just good manners.  Not everyone has good manners, another point not all cultures share the same ideas of what good manners are.  So what I think is reasonable some ones else may think is totally unreasonable.   I think it would be unreasonable for me to place my own expectations on another who may come from a totally alien culture to mine.  Even very similar cultures such as the UK and the USA have totally different expectations and ideas of what is good/bad manners.

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http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/124253" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2012 at 17:38
I send friendly mails from time to time from people who don't reply.  I don't think badly of them for it.  I assume that 1) They are too busy to respond or 2) English might not be their first language and they are not able to respond or 3) They might have accidentally deleted my message along with the 8,000 system mails they also received or 4)  I'm just not that important a person that everyone should feel obligated to respond to my mails.  I'm guessing it's usually 4.

I do try to respond to almost all mail I receive (and I get a good bit), but sometimes if I get a request for resources from someone I don't even know, I figure the most polite thing is to just ignore their faux pas.

The bottom line is, it's a game.  Worrying about whether someone has or hasn't replied to your mail seems to take some of the fun out of it.

By the way, if you are not in an alliance and your population is not growing, and I send you a "friendly" mail?  It's a REALLY good idea to respond.  Otherwise I may consider you to be a siege target.


Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2012 at 17:46
Originally posted by bansisdead bansisdead wrote:

Salararius, I don't think its reasonable or unreasonable to expect a response from a mail, just good manners.  Not everyone has good manners, another point not all cultures share the same ideas of what good manners are.  So what I think is reasonable some ones else may think is totally unreasonable.   I think it would be unreasonable for me to place my own expectations on another who may come from a totally alien culture to mine.  Even very similar cultures such as the UK and the USA have totally different expectations and ideas of what is good/bad manners.


I disagree somewhat.   I get regular (several per week) spam mails from 2 day old chars with 4 pop saying (this was a real message):

"I can haz join ur alliance plz"

This is despite clear indications on my personal profile and our alliance profile that people need to read stuff first before asking to join us.

I have no qualms deleting that spam without replying - and moreover I don't consider that action to be bad manners on my part given the context.


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"This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM

"a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill


Posted By: Quackers
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2012 at 18:12
I'm with Rill on some of her points. Normally when I don't respond I am either to busy to respond that day. Some times I prefer not to write a message when I'm sick or not feeling good because I rather wait until my head is on straight before I click send.

Its nothing to get upset about.


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Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business and to work with your hands, so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so you will not be dependent on anybody.


Posted By: bansisdead
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2012 at 19:22
Originally posted by KillerPoodle KillerPoodle wrote:


I disagree somewhat.   I get regular (several per week) spam mails


My previous, ill thought out post was slightly confusing on rereading, I stated I thought one thing then another.  Its really hot here, the heat messes with my poor little brain, apologies.

Luckily for me I get about zero unsolicited alliance requests per week...Regardless I wouldn't see not responding to a mail, when you state not to send mail, as bad manners.  As I stated (and contradicted) previously I would think it unreasonable to place my own expectations upon another, therefore I would not expect a reply, just hope for one, If my request was reasonable.


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Posted By: Salararius
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2012 at 19:56
Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

The bottom line is, it's a game.  Worrying about whether someone has or hasn't replied to your mail seems to take some of the fun out of it.

Yes, it is a game.  That is both obvious and insightful :)  Part of the game is an IGM (in-game mail) system.  Everyone playing the game has email, but the developers provided a redundant IGM system because it's part of the game.  The developers also made the game fairly wide open so players have a lot of latitude determining what is "right" and what is "wrong".  According to the game created by the devs it is not wrong to siege and completely eliminate a new player.  Try doing that though...

Reading through the H? manifesto of the history of Illy I see that some players feel a lot has gone into establishing "right" and "wrong".  Bravo for them, I think that is what helps to set up genuine conflict, creates the "flavor" of the game and makes the game interesting.  Real wars have indeed been fought over things as trivial as a lack of a response to a greeting.  My question goes to determining the extent of those boundaries with regard to the game.  Saying why worry about the rules for IGM because it's just a game is a lot like saying why worry about the rules for siege because it's just a game.  Both are part of the game.  I'd say a lot more has gone into creating the IGM mechanics than the siege mechanics if that says anything...  People who don't worry about the rules usually don't last long and games that don't last long aren't much fun. :(

Having said all that.  There seems to be somewhat of a consensus that there are no rules for IGM and few boundaries.  Anything is acceptable and expectations are minimal.  It's "might makes right" (as defined by the "code of Illy") and that's an answer of sorts.



Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2012 at 20:07
Originally posted by bansisdead bansisdead wrote:

Even very similar cultures such as the UK and the USA have totally different expectations and ideas of what is good/bad manners.
 For example, an American will not extend his pinkie when drinking tea.  LOL


Posted By: Llyorn Of Jaensch
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2012 at 21:44
Siege 'em.

Siege 'em all.


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"ouch...best of luck."
HonoredMule


Posted By: geofrey
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2012 at 21:52
Originally posted by Llyorn Of Jaensch Llyorn Of Jaensch wrote:

Siege 'em.

Siege 'em all.

I sincerely believe this it the most insightful response to any post on the forums. I hope you don't mind if I use it future responses. 



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http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/45534" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2012 at 00:56
Originally posted by geofrey geofrey wrote:

Originally posted by Llyorn Of Jaensch Llyorn Of Jaensch wrote:

Siege 'em.

Siege 'em all.

I sincerely believe this it the most insightful response to any post on the forums. I hope you don't mind if I use it future responses. 


Why limit oneself to forum responses.  I plan to apply it in game.

Starting with my arch-nemesis, the evil Ryelle.

Kumomoto will thank me.


Posted By: bansisdead
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2012 at 08:42
Originally posted by The_Dude The_Dude wrote:

Originally posted by bansisdead bansisdead wrote:

Even very similar cultures such as the UK and the USA have totally different expectations and ideas of what is good/bad manners.
 For example, an American will not extend his pinkie when drinking tea.  LOL


Ah but the pinky gets in the way of my Bowler Hat, tally ho.


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http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/124253" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Berylla
Date Posted: 02 Jul 2012 at 15:02
Originally posted by Salararius Salararius wrote:

Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

The bottom line is, it's a game.  Worrying about whether someone has or hasn't replied to your mail seems to take some of the fun out of it.

Yes, it is a game.  That is both obvious and insightful :)  Part of the game is an IGM (in-game mail) system.  Everyone playing the game has email, but the developers provided a redundant IGM system because it's part of the game.  The developers also made the game fairly wide open so players have a lot of latitude determining what is "right" and what is "wrong".  According to the game created by the devs it is not wrong to siege and completely eliminate a new player.  Try doing that though...

Reading through the H? manifesto of the history of Illy I see that some players feel a lot has gone into establishing "right" and "wrong".  Bravo for them, I think that is what helps to set up genuine conflict, creates the "flavor" of the game and makes the game interesting.  Real wars have indeed been fought over things as trivial as a lack of a response to a greeting.  My question goes to determining the extent of those boundaries with regard to the game.  Saying why worry about the rules for IGM because it's just a game is a lot like saying why worry about the rules for siege because it's just a game.  Both are part of the game.  I'd say a lot more has gone into creating the IGM mechanics than the siege mechanics if that says anything...  People who don't worry about the rules usually don't last long and games that don't last long aren't much fun. :(

Having said all that.  There seems to be somewhat of a consensus that there are no rules for IGM and few boundaries.  Anything is acceptable and expectations are minimal.  It's "might makes right" (as defined by the "code of Illy") and that's an answer of sorts.


I'm sorry... you seem bitter...
Illy is played by real people and not all people in real life will respond to letters of any kind.

Imagine buying a house, and then send letters to all the people in the neighbourhood, saying something along the lines of "Hi, I'm new here, wuzzup!?" How many replies would you get?
BTW... would be interesting to do some research in that respect.

You know those little notes people put up when someone hasn't cleaned the community/work kitchen? You know some of the replies written directly on those notes? That's what people are like... some of them.

We play a game, yes. There is the possibility of sending messages, yes. Does that mean that we are all social and socially active while we play? No. We don't.

It is polite to answer, but while we might just nod to the kid who calls out "Wuzzup!" in real life, we just simply ignore those messages here... not that I have gotten any.

Then there is the accidental deleted mail, so if you don't get a reply, send it again... it might have gotten lost in the mail.

About sitters responding... well, I usually don't read other people's mail, so if it is important, then the heading must, repeat MUST, give a clue to the importance of the letter, or I simply will not open it, or send a message about the player being away. After all... would you infor the thieves that you are away for a week, and your neighbour is watching the house? I hope not!

I'm sorry if someone stepped on your toes and didn't reply to your letter... but that's life. As for the community... wel...l we make it into what we want... all of us... even you, and those who never interact with others.


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I speak peace, but carry a war axe.
http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/47566" rel="nofollow">



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