largest army size
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Forum Name: General Questions
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URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=3646
Printed Date: 17 Apr 2022 at 18:29
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Topic: largest army size
Posted By: twilights
Subject: largest army size
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2012 at 12:34
| hi, this is for the brainomatics, what do u think the largest army size a castle using alts and rest of castles can build and support,...i believe close to 400k, maybe throw in some babysit accounts as support too! |
Replies:
Posted By: Anjire
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2012 at 13:08
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The only calculation I need to do in regards to this is the amount of time it would take to recruit that number of troops in one city. Assuming you would be pursuing Cavalry(knights)units: 10 years with no sov bonus : a little under 3 years running 350% recruitment bonus. Infantry(stalwarts): 9 years with no bonus 2 years running 350% recruitment bonus Ranged(trueshot) or Spear(Clan Guardsmen): not quite 7 years not quite 2 years with 350% recruitment bonus ------------ For this strategy to be viable a number of current game mechanics would have to change drastically. The most notable mechanic would be the number of commanders allowed in one city. If all your eggs are being led by only 5 commanders - you will be scrambled right quick when push comes to shove. While an interesting concept, it is at best a wobbly tower of jenga with the current game mechanics. |
Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2012 at 13:23
| how about weak t1 units? t1 orc spear, the time would go down crazy |
Posted By: Anjire
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2012 at 13:26
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Off the top of my head, I'd say 5-6 years with no sov bonus, at least 1 year plus with 350% bonus. You can use the link from Fluffeh's profile to mess around with recruitment time and other costs. |
Posted By: Rachel88
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2012 at 15:30
they real question is how much gold can one produce for the use of troops and when you say support i'm assuming not letting the gold go in to the negative so from this the largest town i have seen is +/- 30k pop and if you have 100% taxation you will get round about 120k gold per hour and if you do nothing else with the gold except use it for troops(which is highly unlikely due to the need of sov) and we use T2 cavalry @ 4 gold per hour You can build and support an army of 30k troops! but like i said you will need gold for sov and other buildings to even get a town of 30k pop so the likely hood of doing this is very slim the most likely answer would be +/- 15k T2 cavalry on a safe estimate
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gameplayer wrote:Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2012 at 19:31
You got that completely the wrong way round... training equivalent sizes of low upkeep units like orc spears takes vastly greater time-frames than more expensive units like knights or trueshots - like more than twice as long. [x2.5 as long training T1 spear as T2 cav] It's something that makes very little sense to me - I complain about it regularly. It's the reason why we see statistics like this: (From the last tournament) Unit - Total Casualties - Total Upkeep/Exp Trueshot - 2,762,542 - 8,287,626 Knight - 2,594,065 - 10,376,260 Kobold Cohort - 464,871 - 464,871 Even though T1 spears are described as 'cheap and easy to train' and 'the cannon fodder of armies' the reality is that they are barely used at all simply due to the enormous training times in comparison to other units for equivalent strength armies. The statistics for unit type of all races (to account for the unpopularity of Orcs in general): (From the last tournament) Unit - Total Casualties - Total Upkeep/Exp Ranged - 6,669,428 - 18,636,672 Cavalry - 6,590,731 - 24,581,795 Spear - 4,033,743 - 6,835,595 Infantry - 3,779,535 - 10,405,308 So I guess the stats speak for themselves - The simple truth is that advanced resources can be stockpiled in enormous quantities - while training time cannot be stored - In the end ALL protracted engagements (like tournaments) boil down to who can produce the most strength in a limited time-frame - which is why we see cavalry outnumbering spears by 4:1 in terms of total unit value. Quote from the Billet's description: "It is a tragic fact that the one absolute truth which all Spearmen know is that they are the most expendable part of any army." IMO it is a tragic fact that spear units are the most Non-Existant part of any army. Don't get me wrong - I'm not just moaning on behalf of spears - it is clear from above that there is a general imbalance of the unit type usage - and in my humble opinion this mainly stems from the enormous imbalance in production times per unit upkeep. I get very bored of playing a game where there is one general view of the best strategy that nearly everyone follows. IMO we should not be afraid of tweaking things to bring some greater diversity. It should not be the case that half of the races in Illy get picked less than 1/5th of people just because economics of combat has become so one-sided. It is true that Orcs for example can simply train other faster production units than spears (cavs/ranged etc.) - but then they end up producing second-rate units compared to any other race - which goes a long way to explaining why only 8% of accounts are Orc. |
Posted By: Quackers
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2012 at 20:11
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To fully understand what creature is saying you will have to look at the attack/defense points of a unit and compare it to the time it takes to make them. It takes 8mins and 20seconds (says wiki) to make a Protector (elven t1 spear unit) with attack of 6. To create a trueshot (elven t2 bow unit) it takes roughly 10mins with an attack of 32. It would take 6 protectors just to match up to one trueshot. Thats around 40 mins longer to just match one trueshot and if your attacking you don't want to be waitting around a long time for units to build up. Though the Protector is the best defensive elven unit to have in the woods. But its going to take a very long time to build back your defenses. -Thank you creature for showing me this. I never thought it all through until now. :) |
Posted By: SunStorm
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2012 at 05:07
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I once had an army of 10k - but fed them all to some demonic plant with little remorse.... *sigh* -------------
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Posted By: Cleopatra
Date Posted: 24 Jun 2012 at 19:57
Wish I had read this before picking my race......I did read the information on the website before picking Orc. It's not like I just blindly picked a race and hoped for the best result to suit my playing style. But I didn't pore over all the stat tables and spend weeks researching prior to ever starting playing.  They need to change the descriptions for the races on the official site. I picked the race it said was best suited for offense PvP for a reason. Because when I PvP my style of fighting is offensive rather than defensive. I'm not saying I wanna run around attacking everyone willy nilly with the best troop type. I have never enjoyed griefing or ganking or farming noobs in any game I have played. I simply enjoy the challenge of competing with difficult to beat players. I would honestly rather lose a hard fought and challenging battle than win against a bunch of people who never had a chance. I chose Orc because when I engage in PvP I have a personal preference for offensive type strategies. I don't like waiting for people to come to me and simply sit on an army I know will bounce them. I would rather go to them and see if I can figure out how to defeat them. I have played many other MMORTS games with many different combat systems, and this has always held true. Now that I have been playing for a couple of weeks and have started to understand the game a bit better (and bought prestige and used it to get my city going), I discover that my selection of Orc not only gives me the exact opposite of what the official site says my race is suited for, but actually is at a complete disadvantage in PvP entirely.  So now I am faced with the fact that I must start completely over again, not only just to be able to play in a way that suits my preferences, but apparently to even be able to play in a way that makes me at all competitive with the other races....which virtually means the entire player base of the game. This is very aggravating. I will get over it I'm sure, but considering that I invested money into my account and the fact that it takes a considerable chunk of time to build up your first city to a level that even allows you to do basic gameplay activities, it really doesn't make me happy. I have been playing about 3 weeks and still haven't even gotten my resources and storage built up to a level that allows me to do anything besides build my resources higher. And that is with resource assistance from a training alliance I joined and using prestige to instabuild my buildings rather ubiquitously. Addmittedly, I spent the first week doing more evaluating of whether or not this was a game I wanted to invest my time in than I did building very seriously, but that is still 2 weeks of learning the absolute basic gameplay mechanics and seriously developing my city. The game has a very high time investment to building yourself up. Which is not something that makes you happy about having to start over. The race descriptions on the site seriously need to be changed to reflect the accurate descriptions of the choices. I would have picked elf in a heartbeat if I had known the reality. I didn't want to be an ugly green orc anyways. No girl deliberately picks the ugly character. I was chagrined at having to be the ugly one when I didn't know the pretty one was better!!!
 lol. Vain but true. |
Posted By: dunnoob
Date Posted: 24 Jun 2012 at 22:44
After three weeks you could already have a small army tackling a few pups, or raiding towns of inactive newbs, until your research finally permits to train thieves. Nothing is wrong with Orcs. I doubt that PvP is simpler for other races in Illyriad, especially for small players (at the moment I define small as less than 100K pop.)
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Posted By: Salararius
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2012 at 00:14
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These JPGs show how units compare (attack vs defense) when on plains given different ways of measuring the relative strengths. The first shows attack strength over defense strength adjusted for terrain: http://jpeghoster.com/viewer.php?file=62031136759005239083.jpg" rel="nofollow"> The next shows attack strength divided by gold upkeep over defense strength over gold upkeep adjusted for terrain: http://jpeghoster.com/viewer.php?file=63242880018391961263.jpg" rel="nofollow">  The final one shows attack strength times units built/hour over defense strength times
units built/hour adjusted for terrain: http://jpeghoster.com/viewer.php?file=56434226538987480956.jpg" rel="nofollow">  I've run these for all terrains but the above are the examples for plains and hopeful give a visual of what the guys are talking about. Higher numbers above one favor the attacker. Lower numbers below one favor the defender (it's basically a ratio). Obviously, if you have sov (Military Academy, Jousting Yard, Training Ground, Target Range) that boosts your build rates then that would adjust the third table. The same goes if you have tier 2 buildings (Archer's Field, Cavalry Parade Ground, Infantry Quarters or Spearman's Billets) that would adjust the second table. Leaders, prestige, biome buildings (Arctic Warfare College, Jungle Warfare Collage, Desert Warfare Collage) will all further adjust the ratios. I look at the first table as helpful if you are attacking or defending and need to determine the proper absolute troop ratio. The second gives a feel for static offense/defense (ie. what is the most economical to build and maintain). The third gives a feel for dynamic offense/defense (ie. what is the best to re-build while in a war). Here are the same comparisons in the Large Mountain terrain: http://jpeghoster.com/viewer.php?file=67583302143193325161.jpg" rel="nofollow">  http://jpeghoster.com/viewer.php?file=49466141653688666876.jpg" rel="nofollow">  http://jpeghoster.com/viewer.php?file=17573005598929640937.jpg" rel="nofollow">  An example of how to read these, on plains, if I'm attacking with knights against militiamen then I would need more than 10 knights for every 76 militiamen to win. If I'm defending then I need more than 76 militiamen for every 10 knights to win. That assumes that the commander bonuses and biome bonuses are the same for each side and neither side is using prestige. |
Posted By: Llyorn Of Jaensch
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2012 at 02:56
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Impressive mate. Kudos and thanks. ------------- "ouch...best of luck." HonoredMule |
Posted By: Salararius
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2012 at 04:00
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oh, and city walls will effect everything (I knew I forgot to mention something). A full wall will approx. double the defenders power so just divide every ratio you see by two to approx. the effect of city walls. There are a lot of match-ups in this game but I think there are some clear directions you should go and not go with troop types... |
Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2012 at 00:27
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With regard to the orc whose playstyle in PvP is aggressive. One thing that's important to take into account is that in Illy defensive troops are used in offense, and offensive troops are used in defense in the most serious type of encounter, the siege. If I am going to use the most serious type of attack against another player, a siege of his/her cities, I am not going to run my cavalry out to babysit the siege (although I might send some cav to wipe out the city's cav protection so it won't hit my siege). What I'm going to do is send a bunch of defensive troops to hang out with my siege engines and protect them. And unless my siege engines are sitting on a nice mountain, which 70% or better of the time they will not be, the best accompaniment is probably going to be ... spears. I don't think the description of orcs on the main page is terribly accurate, largely due to the slow speed of orc units which is a handicap to slash and burn warfare that might be implied by the description, but the orc spears are indeed a powerful offensive unit when used to defend sieges. They are also relatively slow to build, and this creates some disadvantages that I will allow others to describe at length.
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Posted By: geofrey
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2012 at 01:47
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the largest army i have seen is 35k. And I think the highest level commander i've heard of is somewhere in the 90s. anyone top that? ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/45534" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: dunnoob
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2012 at 04:53
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Posted By: Bonaparta
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2012 at 15:54
Hm. I find that my green orcess avatar has some qualities and is quite aesthetic in brutal kind of style. Anyways, playing an orc is adjusting your state of mind to horde like thinking, making jokes at expense of other puny races, fighting is considered necessary and so on... I've constructed little quiz to test your orcish nature. Let's see if you are horde material? 1. You see an elf trespassing on your estates. What do you do? 2. You need some dwarven meat to complete famous orcish dish of dwarven flesh stew (http://www.orcmagazine.com/ORC_MAGAZINE/Dwarf_Flesh_Stew.html), but you are lacking just one pound of dwarven meat. What might your action be in this situation? 3. You are a bit bored and wonder what kind of entertainment would be acceptable this evening. 4. Your commander informs you that moral of your kobold troops is a bit low. You need to act quickly, what do you do? 5. Ashamed quartermaster informs you that some supplies are missing. What do you do? P. S. Be creative in your answers. A,B,C,D are just possible options to consider ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/95216" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2012 at 16:43
| alot of people are playing with commanders in the 100s, there is a discussion of sending a commander alone or in specialize groups, the specialize groups seem to be superior in killing large groups of npcs, larger than legion size, 35k in troops seem small if u using other castles to supply resources, alot of people are playing around with sov and t2 type miltary buildings to increase army sizes, its getting crazy, there are god like players out there....but there still plenty of sneaky ways to bring them down if they get uppity....any other have observations about what they seen? way to look into other peoples alliance is to have a friend allow u to babysit their account...u be amazed what u find out....wink wink |
Posted By: Sloter
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2012 at 16:51
| Most effectiv off commanders are around 35-45 lvl, def commanders around 55-65.Anything above that lvl decrease ability of army to be deoployed sooner due to dead comms resurection time. |
Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2012 at 18:00
for that specialized group you are talking about, you need only a level 10 commander. I let several of my commanders retire during the last tourney, so that i could promote a new commander instantly and not wait for them to resurrect. A level 100 commander isn't as powerful a being as he sounds. ;)
35K troops in one city is not small (unless they are kobolds cohorts!) It will take you ages to make that many troops. It will take you 324 days to train that many knights, without sovereignty. 162 days, with +100% cavalry sovereignty.
Seriously, there are no gods.  Illy has a cap for everything. The older the server gets, the military power of individual players will become more and more insignificant. |
Posted By: Quackers
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2012 at 20:00
Yes its the perfect way to know a lot. Specially when that person thinks they are trying to test you. wink wink ------------- Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business and to work with your hands, so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so you will not be dependent on anybody. |