Worlds End Announcement
Printed From: Illyriad
Category: The World
Forum Name: Politics & Diplomacy
Forum Description: If you run an alliance on Elgea, here's where you should make your intentions public.
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=2871
Printed Date: 17 Apr 2022 at 04:46
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Worlds End Announcement
Posted By: Sgt..Shanks
Subject: Worlds End Announcement
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2011 at 07:13
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From the Council of: Worlds End
It may come as no surprise that things have been tense lately between our alliance and RES, and recently things have taken a turn for the worse. An attack has been sent out by one of our members, without any approval or sanction by our council. WE do not approve of rogue attacks and for this reason the member in question has been dismissed from the alliance.
First and foremost WE are a peaceful alliance; however this does not
mean that WE will sit idly by while others use provoking and or hostile actions
against us that demonstrate hypocrisy of their own policies regarding others. Peaceful methods of conflict resolution are our preferred route, however WE do not rule out strategic militaristic action if all other avenues are exhausted. Furthermore, WE do not condone forum warfare; this is only a statement to address the current actions at hand. Any questions or concerns, please mail myself or a member of our council in game.
Sincerely, The Council of Worlds End |
Replies:
Posted By: Myrin
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2011 at 10:07
| I hope you guys can work it out, good luck! |
Posted By: shadow1
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2011 at 13:12
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At last we do the wright thing...but to kick out that member was a wrong thing to do!! A lot of members have been complainig about td and his ratfrend,ratboy....nothing have our leader done and it has been no support from the council.....by kicking out this player..you all named him an free target for res members....if hes not been taken back..i will leave WE...and im not alone doing that then!!!
Shad. |
Posted By: Gemley
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2011 at 14:48
------------- �I do not love the bright sword for it's sharpness, nor the arrow for it's swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend� - J.R.R. Tolkien |
shadow1 wrote:Posted By: EternalFire
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2011 at 15:00
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Whats the whole story here? From a RES and WE viewpoint preferably. |
Posted By: Rupe
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2011 at 16:42
In brief
Rez took sov that was close to WE WE didn't like it. Argue, Argue, Argue. Here we are |
Posted By: EternalFire
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2011 at 16:48
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How close? Isn't it common courtesy to assume if a city is next to high sov, as im assuming is what it was, its as good as theirs? |
Posted By: lorre
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2011 at 17:15
this is just to answer the question of eternalfire -131|-432 sovsquare -129|-432 WE city -137|-431 Res city
------------- The battlefield is a scene of constant chaos. The winner will be the one who controls that chaos, both his own and the enemies. Napoleon Bonaparte |
Posted By: Prometheuz
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2011 at 17:22
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I suppose this issue is done and dusted because Res haven't commented and WE have said that their statement is their final word. They say that they don't condone forums wars which on the face of it - is a good policy. Fair enough. I can respect that. Not knowing the true facts we can't really make any comments and might not help the situation if we do. Even so all you alliance leaders (and I don't just mean Res or WE but all of you) out there should spare a thought for the little guy in these situations. Prometheusx Herald Grudge Bearer [GRUJ] |
Posted By: EternalFire
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2011 at 17:43
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It's easy enough to see what should happen with the current information, RES returns the sov square, everyone goes on merry way. if not, then theres a simple skirmish between the two parties, through words or combat. Then the winner of that gets the square. so simple really. |
Posted By: Belthazor
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2011 at 17:55
Aren't you suspended? ------------- We work in the Dark to serve the Light |
Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2011 at 17:58
RES and WE are both large alliances with a number of large players. I imagine they can take care of themselves and their alliances without help from the rest of us.
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Posted By: EternalFire
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2011 at 18:00
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Not meaning to *diss* this guy, but TD is a very favored player in this community, I bet if it went to war you would see many people siding with him/her. |
Posted By: Belthazor
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2011 at 18:06
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It's not about popularity, it's about justice.
Not everyone likes to go on GC and do good deeds, some like the shadows better. Doesn't mean their bad people. ------------- We work in the Dark to serve the Light |
Posted By: EternalFire
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2011 at 18:12
| I'm not implying that they are, I'm stating that the public more often then not supports the one they like best, in most situations, in Real life and in online games. |
Posted By: Belthazor
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2011 at 18:14
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Sadly,that's true. ------------- We work in the Dark to serve the Light |
Posted By: EternalFire
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2011 at 18:16
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Whether it's right or wrong, sad indeed. Well I hope both parties can work it out somewhat peacefully, if not, best of luck. |
Posted By: Amroth
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2011 at 18:20
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This entire episode has been idiotic from the beginning. The sovereign spot is a 13 food spot so this is what the excitement is about. Ratboy claimed the spot. As I see it. it is between the two cities. Gruntfuddock had ample opportunity to claim the spot. he has more then enough population there. If he delayed and the spot was claimed, he can blame none but himself. As to the attacks made by Selwyn on a pop 200 player in Res. I find this a most despicable action, and Selwyn has been informed that any further attacks from him to tiny players will most assuredly see his cites removed from Illy. As to Shadow1....If Selwyn is admitted back into WE, after RMY has kicked him and disavowed his actions...Eternal Champions will view this as a backing of his nefarious activities and we will be forced to take action against said player and any who support him. As to the affair in general...It is disappointing that we have received these reports from leadership and representatives from both guilds. These messages charge each various leader with personal slanders against the other. With name calling and insults offered over the global chat and in personal correspondence to other players. This seems to me a sad indication of the mentality at work here. I would remind the respective leaders that they represent their alliances and as leaders are expected to behave in a respectful and responsible manner. Ridicules when 8yr old kids on a soccer field can be more mature then the adults I play a game with. Lastly...I have informed Selwyn that any further attacks to small players will see his cities razed from illy. Now get this...anyone found to be attacking small players who have not directly attacked, offered belligerence or in some way acted to ingurey of the larger player will have all their cities razed from Illy by the Eternal Champions.
Yep that's right. This is what we do. We champion the meek and the unmartialed. So play nice and get your acts together....Leave the smaller players in peace when ya wanna sword rattle...otherwise Eternal Champions will come and collect whatever you may have and distribute it as we see fit. Consider yourselves warned. This is the only talk any will receive from me on this issue. Any further actions directed at small players will bring a swift and total response from Eternal Champions. As to who owns the spot.....first come, first served...This should have been worked out peacefully between the two players who are close to the spot. Knock it off and be good. And maybe I want the spot....13 farmspots....gesssuz christ!
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Posted By: EternalFire
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2011 at 18:25
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attacking a player leads to razing cities? by my use of free speech *cough bully cough* |
Posted By: (EOM) Harry
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2011 at 18:37
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Amroth, you do realise that by telling WE that they are not allowed to do something, its more likely that they will do it. If they think you're "dictating" to them it's going to be pretty obvious they'l do it simply to spite you. ------------- Fool's watch the land when the problem is in the heart. |
Posted By: scaramouche
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2011 at 20:24
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As to who owns the spot.....first come, first served...This should have been worked out peacefully between the two players who are close to the spot. Knock it off and be good. And maybe I want the spot....13 farmspots....gesssuz christ!
0nly 13 ? it warranted ratboy to not only settle in amongst us, capping a high lvl 20 square right next door to him...but it seems he wasn't content with just that, he felt the need to move into one of our members territory and blatantly steal it from under his nose. I ask you a fair question.....would you sit back and accept that, if it was done to your town?
WE had no qualms about Res moving in amongst us despite the tensions between us, but now they take a step too far, WE members hold respect for ALL players when they play fair and would NEVER contemplate infringing upon other peoples territories to that degree.
As for you spew about talking it out...shame RES didn't talk to us first about their intentions instead of bulldozing their way in first.
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Posted By: scaramouche
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2011 at 20:41
| Oh btw...seems Illy has lost a great guy in sel despite his faults, his only guilt was being over passionate about the world of ILLY.......YES AA....and all because of " only a 13 food square " |
Posted By: Anjire
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2011 at 20:59
My only comment on this is that the game mechanics can be used to show that the claiming of a 13 food sov square over 6 away is a poor choice. A 5 food sov square up to 2.24 away would net a greater return on investment. |
Posted By: Gemley
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2011 at 21:23
------------- �I do not love the bright sword for it's sharpness, nor the arrow for it's swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend� - J.R.R. Tolkien |
Posted By: Aurordan
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2011 at 22:52
This. Clearly the fact that this is an issue beyond explaining this to ratboy makes this look like a deliberate provocation. While attacking insignificantly small players is clearly not the best course of action(besides being the most inefficient use of 2k cavalry I can easily think of), I wouldn't fault WE at all for starting on military options.
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Posted By: fluffy
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2011 at 00:07
Not all people claim sov based on investment return: http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/World/Map/925/523" rel="nofollow - http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/World/Map/925/523 or even KP - the lovely leader of H? :) http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/World/Map/882/581/6" rel="nofollow - http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/World/Map/882/581/6
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Posted By: HATHALDIR
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2011 at 01:27
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Sorry to see Selwyn leave the game, there can be no winner now!
------------- There's worse blokes than me!! |
Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2011 at 01:42
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It is a good point fluffy. But I would assume in both the cases that you pointed out that the longer distance sov claims were made though incorrectly assessing the cost/benefit potential of sov claims around their cities and not for any other strategic reason. Indeed even the leaders of H? are no infallable. In the situation this thread pertains to I would have been tempted to approach the situation by carefully explaining to the 'long sov' owner that he could claim 3-4 squares closer to his city for the same upkeep and generated an overall greater food sov bonus (and greater flexibility for production bonuses further down the road). In this case I suspect that the offended party responded the the 'long claim' in a rather less logical manner. Having said that this is only the briefest of assessments on my part - I do not know the full details - perhaps the 'long claim' was indeed initiated as a provocative move - I suspect my initial guess holds more truth though. I guess it has been said many times before - but good communication and careful explainations should always be the first moves to avoid causing offense and potentially escalating a situtation. |
Posted By: Gilthoniel
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2011 at 02:07
Thank you for this post because I see now that the root of this issue involves ignorance of the mechanics of sovereignty on the part more than a few people involved in this sad affair. Now I see the importance of understanding the games mechanics before rushing headlong into a situation only to find that your own ignorance has enflamed and exaggerated matters beyond control
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Posted By: HonoredMule
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2011 at 04:17
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Just a minor note: the "return on investment" assessment only applies if you're long-term plans do not support claiming all squares within 2.24 tiles distance and the high-value square outside that radius.
------------- "Apparently, quoting me is a 'thing' now." - HonoredMule |
Posted By: Mr Damage
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2011 at 06:17
That's claiming all the credit for other people's work AA, there's more than one Cop shop in Illy. On a serious note, sad to see Selwyn depart the game.
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Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2011 at 10:52
I bet there would have been no trouble if the spot was 12 or 14 farm bonus. |
Posted By: Myrin
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2011 at 11:35
| That Dolmen is 6 squares from Ratboy and only one square from Grunt. You wouldn't plant a city that close to someone so why would you claim sovereignty that close? I wouldn't be happy about it either. |
Posted By: scaramouche
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2011 at 17:15
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normally i wouldnt involve myself in the polotics, but I am from an old school generation, I beieve in sportsmanship, fair play and respect but if these traits are not returned then all you make are enemies, something I'd rather not be, obviously certain people think otherwise.
The issue as to the lvl of he food square in question is irrelevant, i couldnt give two monkeys if it was only a lvl 1 square, its all about principles. WE members know RES and their leaderships narrow minded little alliance ( their small and new players excluded) are doing this for one reason only, we know his intentions are not honourable.
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Posted By: Llyorn Of Jaensch
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2011 at 18:37
I am no infallable. PS: We at Harmless (?) are trying terribly hard at the moment to not look smug regards our so recent thread posting requesting dialogue before encroaching upon ones space in order to prevent, ahem, incident. Hur. ------------- "ouch...best of luck." HonoredMule |
Posted By: (EOM) Harry
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2011 at 18:44
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Llyorn, don't be so down on yourself, of course you a infallable. Edit: Point proven with the mistakes galore in that lil' PS message of his. HURR DURR I IS LLYORN I LIK POTATOES ------------- Fool's watch the land when the problem is in the heart. |
Posted By: Llyorn Of Jaensch
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2011 at 18:52
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Poe-tah-toe. I does. I does! ------------- "ouch...best of luck." HonoredMule |
Posted By: (EOM) Harry
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2011 at 18:53
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Wait wait wait... Shouldn't that be: Poe-tah-D'oh! Hahaha! I is so funny with my witty wit wit! ------------- Fool's watch the land when the problem is in the heart. |
Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2011 at 18:55
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Lawn is not a fail ball. He's inflammable. |
Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2011 at 20:08
| I cocur... I think Lawn likes poh-ten-tates perhaps too much! ;) |
Posted By: STAR
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2011 at 04:45
This was not about settling within a 10sq radius of a WE city, it is claiming sov sq's right outside a WE players city...this behaviour can be deemed hostile to say the least...am sure if it was done to any other player, they would feel a lil imposed on too. Its common curtesy to respect the boundaries of another player.
The whole point of settling next to a high dolman is to claim it for later use.....Im all for first in first serve when it comes to things that are located away from player cities and not things right outside a players door.... The one that should of sent the mail was the player that took it upon himself to claim the sq right outside my fellow alliance memebers city!! but didnt! As for working this situation out peacefully, that is what is happening now! Thanx for the concern, most appreciated |
Posted By: Tordenkaffen
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2011 at 20:48
| I think - without wishing to take this thread off topic, that the question raised here: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/cleaning-up_topic2881.html has a bearing on this thread as well. While this thread debates the motives behind a specific move, the link adresses the root of the problem. |
Posted By: Prometheuz
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2011 at 02:05
I am afraid that it does take it off topic imho and with respect to Tordenkaffen I ask for the post to be removed
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Posted By: GM Luna
Date Posted: 05 Dec 2011 at 18:52
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Thread cleaned to remove name calling, unnecessary grammar policing and other off-topic shenanigans. If you are going to contribute please do so while respecting forum rules. Luna ------------- GM Luna | Illyriad Community Manager | community@illyriad.co.uk 
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Posted By: Amroth
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2011 at 19:07
| The two spots on question are not on anyones directly adjacent space, (so much for the front porch argument) Also so much for WE working things out peacefully and in a diplomatic fashion. This has translated to martial attacks on the spots in question and an occupation of these spots against their former owners by WE members with military troops. I refute the assumption of WE that might dictates right. Furthermore I find this unsatisfactory with regards to the direction of events. This has moved from stupid to belligerent. If this is to be the official position from WE regarding this issue than this leaves small room for a any civil negotiation and punitive actions should be expected |
Posted By: Sloter
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2011 at 20:06
| I dont think that actions of single player (for which he was kicked out of alliance) can be contributed to entire alliance,i think that peacefull solution can still be found.Greater are chanses for that if others refrain from adding oil to the fire.Best to leave punitive actions aside. |
Posted By: Aurordan
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2011 at 20:20
| I gather Amroth means that attacks on the square have happened between now and the posting of this thread. In my mind the square (assuming we are still talking about the same one) is within 2-3 squares of the WE city and not remotely close to the RES settlement, so it's their right to defend that area however they choose. |
Posted By: Sloter
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2011 at 20:33
| I see now, sov owner or that dolmen has changed indeed.It will probably change hands many times before it is all resolved. |
Posted By: Capricorne
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2011 at 22:22
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"so much for the front porch argument"Oh my, you can't be serious Amroth. The spot is 2 squares away from the WE city! If the same thing happened to me I'd gladely send a diplomatic message to the ex owner of those troops explaining why a suspicious army wich cross my borther unannounced has vanish. And I'm pretty sure my whole alliance will back me up on this. And for the "punitive actions should be expected" thing; do you mean by your doing? Cap. |
Posted By: Amroth
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2011 at 23:45
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What I am saying is that the square does not directly abut any player city and so is not subject to automatic sovereignty expectation. Personally I think the space should have been surrendered to WE after diplomatic negotiation and concessions to RES for the spot. This was not the case though. WE who has proclaimed in their own alliance statement to be a peaceful alliance has in effect nullified their own claim by these actions. The spaces are now under WE control due to martial attacks issued by WE members. Let every alliance know, whether it means us good or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and success of Liberty.
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Posted By: Gragnog
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2011 at 10:09
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Thanks for your input amroth. Negotiations were under way, but due to petty demands, and lack of willingness to listen to reason, WE had no choice but to use other means. How long do you propose diplomatic negotiations to continue? Into eternity? Lets face it, this is between WE and RES, and I think those few who are involved are actually having fun. It is a great leaving curve for all involved, and it would be even more fun for all involved if people not involved would refrain from making unnecessary comments. |
Posted By: scaramouche
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2011 at 18:02
p.s we lost two of our biggest members, one of which might i add, left us because we wasn't aggressive enough....what does that tell you about WE Amroth?
pps...just out of curiosity..ive seen a good many ppl say in this thread about why RES seem to be the perpretrators and WE have been quite vocal in our defence.yet i cant say ive seen one post from TD's alliance in their defence of taking it.
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Posted By: Capricorne
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2011 at 18:24
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Well Scaramouche, don't bully Amroth that way please. If he can't make you look as an aggressive alliance he won't be able to satisfy his own bloodlust while looking himself as the shield of justice and liberty... So be kind and accept the fact that fighting for a sov square is a casius belli to go on an all out war. Thank you, Cap.
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Posted By: StJude
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2011 at 18:50
I loled. Anyway, If you haven't figured out by now that Chimps and RES love picking on weaker alliances, you haven't been paying attention. My first week in Illy Amroth regaled me in IGMs with tales of his defeat of Dark Blight (which I later found out were not his to tell, but rather they were the property of the magnanimous Crow confed). To hear his majesty tell it...well, different story. IGM me if you wish to see his tales, they are hella funny. Also, you won't see the_dou...the_dude in this thread because he can't win the publicity war. He needs secrecy while he tries to manipulate behind the scenes.
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Posted By: Amroth
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2011 at 00:16
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With regards to the WE member who has posted here. You have my response in your private mail. I would be happy to entertain any thoughts from you regarding my proposal good Sir. With regards to you StJude, You are wrong in your assertion. Your ignorance is understandable as you were not a player in Illyriad at the time. I am sure many old blight members who are now in the Cave of Knowledge will be happy to clarify your mistaken ideas. How exactly your comments pertain at all to the subject of the post is a mystery but I am impressed that you take every opportunity to attempt to smear and cause mayhem, with regard to me as a player in Illy. This would indicate that I have a rather large sovereignty claim in your head. I on the other hand, never think of you at all little jude save to smile at your vindictive and somewhat simple attempts at wit. There once was a troll called StJude. Who excelled only at being rude. His cities all shrank as he had no decorum until at last he was relegated to talking trash on the forum. Happy Holidays Jude, better luck next year.  |