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H? sieging small players nowhere near thier cities

Printed From: Illyriad
Category: The World
Forum Name: Politics & Diplomacy
Forum Description: If you run an alliance on Elgea, here's where you should make your intentions public.
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=2696
Printed Date: 01 Oct 2020 at 18:03
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Topic: H? sieging small players nowhere near thier cities
Posted By: Zork2012
Subject: H? sieging small players nowhere near thier cities
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2011 at 13:31
At the time of this writing 2 smallish players from ICON have sieges inbound to thier cities. H? is now stooping to an all time low by doing this. I tried to comunicate with H? and this was thier response.
These small players are settling an island here http://uk1.illyriad.co.uk/#/World/Map/-704/-654" rel="nofollow - http://uk1.illyriad.co.uk/#/World/Map/-704/-654
These players pose no threat to H? and they are more than 50 squares away from the nearest H? member.
This is a dasterdly deed by H? and I would hope that the community here can apply whatever political pressure they can to stop this.



Replies:
Posted By: Darkwords
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2011 at 13:33
Wait.... What was their response


Posted By: Zork2012
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2011 at 13:43
they sent sieges as a response


Posted By: Zork2012
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2011 at 13:46
Let me explain a little better, I recieved a IGM asking why army camps had popped up around the cities I have given a link to, when I sent mail asking what was the purpose of thiese camps, sieges were sent in response. Honored Mule had read my mail before the siege was sent. The larger of the two victims is only at about 1300 pop


Posted By: LordOfTheSwamp
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2011 at 13:54
This isn't new. H? have already destroyed a series of ICON settlements on another island that were attempting the same thing.

I've just written another post, pointing out that H? are in effect medieval rulers, not modern moral arbiters - they can afford morality only if they can first preserve their power. I won't repeat it here, but if anyone's interested:  http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/lap-ornament-suspended_topic2649_page3.html" rel="nofollow - http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/lap-ornament-suspended_topic2649_page3.html

This has nothing to do with morality, and everything to do with power. I personally have a lot of sympathy for the ICON guys - no-one wants to have their cities steamrollered by the massed armies of our de facto rulers - but a few minutes thought will reveal why ICON's island-fortress policy is a threat to H?, and so it's pretty clear why H? are doing this.


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"A boy is building sandcastles on a beach. You go and kick down his castle. You could say that it only reflects how you play with sandcastles. Others may think it reflects who you are." - Ander.


Posted By: Darkwords
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2011 at 13:56
Sounds typical.

I expect they had sent the camps for seiges anyway, but your mail prob reminded them to send the seige armies out.

Either that or they were hoping you would attack the camps so they could cry you were bullying them and then send the seiges.


Posted By: Zork2012
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2011 at 14:01
We at ICON didnt like losing the cities at the other island but we could see H? point on that one, we were right at 10 squares from 1 of thier cities. Ok, np.
This is completely different, these two players are both small and niether has done anything to deserve this kind of treatment. Say what you want about me and Jude.
 
 


Posted By: LordOfTheSwamp
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2011 at 15:09
I will be watching this thread with interest. A couple of evenings ago a big alliance leader was claiming on GC that he would militarily punish Squill (OCON) for Squill's aleged thefts from smaller players. A few months ago I recall quite a lot of people wanting to punish _[oh gods, I can't even bring myself to type it, but everyone knows which obnoxious jerk I mean] for attacking Ber[oh gods no, I can't type that either]. I'm sure I've seen many people hailing the community for its steadfast defense of small members.

So, in the forthcoming days I expect that lots of people will be reading this thread and

demanding the immediate punishment of Harmless?

performing mental and verbal contortions as they try to avoid admitting their hypocrisy as they avoid criticizing H? over this

deciding not to respond.


Personally, I'm not going to criticize H? I appreciate their need to balance principle with the need to maintain their power advantage.

But I am amused by the light this casts on those who are so keen to use morality as a smokescreen for aggression when it suits them.


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"A boy is building sandcastles on a beach. You go and kick down his castle. You could say that it only reflects how you play with sandcastles. Others may think it reflects who you are." - Ander.


Posted By: Celebcalen
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2011 at 16:09
Originally posted by LordOfTheSwamp LordOfTheSwamp wrote:


Personally, I'm not going to criticize H? I appreciate their need to balance principle with the need to maintain their power advantage.

But I am amused by the light this casts on those who are so keen to use morality as a smokescreen for aggression when it suits them.


The amusement or indeed the apparent cynicism of Kudruk/Lord of the Swamp are not as important in this thread as the concern that the community shows when smaller players are allegedly attacked by larger ones. Irregardless of who the aggressor may or may not be that concern must always be genuine.

The fact is that charges have been made against H? in general and HM has been mentioned in person.Let us here there side of the event. If the cities of smaller players can be preserved as a resu;t of a misunderstanding or misplaced event then at least the community will have achieved something.


Posted By: Sloter
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2011 at 16:37
It takes some 10 minutes to look on profile and names of besieged players to understand that they are alts created with idea to help cover that small island and made it safe for "real" ICON players to move.

There are 3 players on that island, one has 3 pop and is already suspended, other has 96 and named after TD, and 3rd is maybe "real" player (it was his choice to put him self on line of fire?)

Great improvisation from ICON in atempt to colonise that island but really lets  keep our objectivity.

Those acc are simply not newbies but tools for achiving military goal.

It is so scarry how people dont even bother to try and get them self informed on basic facts, it only takes few minutes to do so.

I personally think that ICON and StJude should be left in game, they add certain interesting aspect to both GC and game, but what really bothers me that far too often people from almost all alliances use forums to twist truth, that practis is dangerous, just remember that tomorrow it could be you who are slandered, this goes for all who insult StJude on GC when ever they can, and also those who attack H? with words when ever posible without bothering to understand what is going on.There is no real differens betveen two groupes, except sides that you have chosen.


Posted By: Brids17
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2011 at 19:25
I'm not trying to support ICON but is the involvement of so many alliances really necessary? No offence but this is getting really pathetic. The alliance is so pitifully small I just don't understand how anyone can justify the involvement of more than one alliance.


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Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2011 at 20:18
well its only natural that icon players are hunted down. think about it..
why would a powerhouse tolerate even the small ones that dare stand up against it?
of course one can call a slaughter a punitive expedition and a siege a "change in demography"...
well, blame them for joining icon in the first place.. if people agree to join such an ally, expect the dominant faction to try wipe you out.
anyway, the island guys are probably alts or such...
and of course lots of people hate jude, but this scenario is what i warned Jude from...
that his foolish actions would involve minor and innocent players in a terrible experience was
 
foretold by me.
so there is the weary concrete possibility that ICON leadership considers his members nothing but cannon fodder.
and heck, now you are branded as "heretic". your annihilation is inevitable. resistance is futile. 


-------------

my words on this forum are from me alone.
DLords official words only come from HighKing Belargyle


Posted By: StJude
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2011 at 20:28
Originally posted by Kilotov of DokGthung Kilotov of DokGthung wrote:

well its only natural that icon players are hunted down. think about it..
why would a powerhouse tolerate even the small ones that dare stand up against it?
of course one can call a slaughter a punitive expedition and a siege a "change in demography"...
well, blame them for joining icon in the first place.. if people agree to join such an ally, expect the dominant faction to try wipe you out.
anyway, the island guys are probably alts or such...
and of course lots of people hate jude, but this scenario is what i warned Jude from...
that his foolish actions would involve minor and innocent players in a terrible experience was
 
foretold by me.
so there is the weary concrete possibility that ICON leadership considers his members nothing but cannon fodder.
and heck, now you are branded as "heretic". your annihilation is inevitable. resistance is futile. 

Bloody hell, my eyes.


Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2011 at 20:33
Siege armies take longer to travel than do the reinforcing armies they land on.  So the suggestion that the sieges were sent in response to a mail is laughable.

ICON has a history of creating new accounts to place near their cities in an attempt to avoid being sieged.  This was apparently deemed out of line by the devs, who have now changed the rules to prevent people from doing this by not allowing the use of Tenaril's Spell during new player protection.  I'm not saying it was somehow against the rules at the time it was done, merely that the devs have apparently decided that it was an exploit.

ICON further has a history of starting wars and then complaining about people following through with them.

Is there anything new happening here?  Are any players involved other than StJude, Borg and Zork?  The same old cast of characters?

As for these folks being "small" players, they would be much larger players if their aggressive actions had not resulted in their being sieged.

 I really doubt that ICON seeks peace, and decry their habit of using proxies to spread disinformation that seeks to make them innocent victims in a war that they started.

However, if any of these players wish to make peace, I urge them to contact me.  I can't make any promises, but I will approach involved parties. 


Posted By: SunStorm
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2011 at 21:09
  • I must say, I agree with all of Rill's observations as well.
  • And I would be less likely to believe a one sided argument based on what Zork and Jude post without hearing the side of Harmless.
  • I will also be watching with Kurdruk to see what develops, and to see the reason for these sieges.
  • I will say, however, that I have yet to see any H? member siege another for absolutely no reason...whatever that reason may be.
(P.S. Kilo, you must learn to master the colors.  It doesn't come natural for some...)


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"Side? I am on nobody's side because nobody is on my side" ~LoTR



Posted By: Llyorn Of Jaensch
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2011 at 21:35
Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

ICON further has a history of starting wars and then complaining about people following through with them.


QFT.

Harmless (?) company motto: 'We follow through'.

Wink


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"ouch...best of luck."
HonoredMule


Posted By: Llyorn Of Jaensch
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2011 at 22:12
Post Script:

Perspective: Jude and like declared war on us remember. Not the other way round.

(Repetitious, but):  Made bed, enjoy sleep.


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"ouch...best of luck."
HonoredMule


Posted By: StJude
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2011 at 22:18
Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

However, if any of these players wish to make peace, I urge them to contact me.  I can't make any promises, but I will approach involved parties. 

Rill, I wouldn't trust you as far as I could throw you.

Anyway, let's see if you can put your money where your mouth is. AB's, contrary to conjecture and belief, is NOT an alt of Borg, Zork or I.

He is actually a new player that met up with Borg in Order of the Maiar and thought he could get some PvP action from ICON.

He has no designs on H? and neither does ICON really. We just happened to put cities in "their" territory.

If you are willing to broker peace between AB's specifically and H?, then I think AB's would welcome that. Me? I am a stubborn Mick and to quote another fictional Irishman, "That is MY island" so no interest there. (That other island AB's is on, is not "my" island. I don't care for it.)

Mail him if you are really serious as I don't think he wants to have a tete a tete with H?. 




Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2011 at 22:23
I have mailed him.

I am somewhat disappointed that you feel I am untrustworthy.  I challenge you to think of an instance in which I have acted contrary to my word.


Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2011 at 22:55
Originally posted by StJude StJude wrote:

Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

However, if any of these players wish to make peace, I urge them to contact me.  I can't make any promises, but I will approach involved parties. 

Rill, I wouldn't trust you as far as I could throw you.

Anyway, let's see if you can put your money where your mouth is. AB's, contrary to conjecture and belief, is NOT an alt of Borg, Zork or I.

He is actually a new player that met up with Borg in Order of the Maiar and thought he could get some PvP action from ICON.

He has no designs on H? and neither does ICON really. We just happened to put cities in "their" territory.

If you are willing to broker peace between AB's specifically and H?, then I think AB's would welcome that. Me? I am a stubborn Mick and to quote another fictional Irishman, "That is MY island" so no interest there. (That other island AB's is on, is not "my" island. I don't care for it.)

Mail him if you are really serious as I don't think he wants to have a tete a tete with H?. 


Sounds like AB is getting what he wanted then, right?  PvP action.


Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2011 at 23:00
Originally posted by SunStorm SunStorm wrote:

  • I must say, I agree with all of Rill's observations as well.
  • And I would be less likely to believe a one sided argument based on what Zork and Jude post without hearing the side of Harmless.
  • I will also be watching with Kurdruk to see what develops, and to see the reason for these sieges.
  • I will say, however, that I have yet to see any H? member siege another for absolutely no reason...whatever that reason may be.
(P.S. Kilo, you must learn to master the colors.  It doesn't come natural for some...)


that was a rainbow. kinda dual message. one written, and one visual.

P.S
we know the whole drama... its so trite it hurts.
H? doesn't have to justify his action against ICON.
more than posting treads like those, has the zork&jude&Co. even thought of posting apologizes for
 their actions and rudeness?  i highly doubt this eventuality never ever crossed their minds.
sadly for them, a nice community doesn't mean a community that will forgive that kind of attitude...
..so jude.. using conspiracy theory like statements, talking about " wannabe whitehats" and that
 
kind of stuff really doesn't help your cause....
ignoring that the cause of their hostile attitude towards could be caused by your weary own
actions, is a grave mistake.
whit this i salute you.

-------------

my words on this forum are from me alone.
DLords official words only come from HighKing Belargyle


Posted By: LordOfTheSwamp
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2011 at 00:37
Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

 I am somewhat disappointed that you feel I am untrustworthy.  I challenge you to think of an instance in which I have acted contrary to my word.

Rill - I recall that when you and I first exchanged comments, you were very keen to, shall we say, "articulate the dominant ideology" ;-) 

However, I felt I had nothing to lose by trusting you, so I decided to do so. And from that point on, I saw that you were level headed, constructive, pragmatic, tactful and (as far as I could tell) completely honest.

StJ has not yet had the benefit of my experience. So he might well see you, as I initially did, as being somewhat biased.

(That is in no way meant to sound patronizing, by the way - I'm just attempting to be tactful!)


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"A boy is building sandcastles on a beach. You go and kick down his castle. You could say that it only reflects how you play with sandcastles. Others may think it reflects who you are." - Ander.


Posted By: Zork2012
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2011 at 04:13
Actually Rill, the camps arrived well before the first siege was sent, the order of events is exactly as I said it was. So go laugh your butt off, it happened.


Posted By: StJude
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2011 at 05:06
Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

I am somewhat disappointed that you feel I am untrustworthy.  I challenge you to think of an instance in which I have acted contrary to my word.

It's your obvious pandering to the "self appointed" vets and bias against me that leads me to this conclusion. Sorry, you may not like it, but I doubt your sincerity at times.

Anyway, if AB gets some help as a result, It will go a long way with me.


Posted By: Celebcalen
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2011 at 10:18
I really don't see what point or kudos the mighty Harmless? Corporation want to gain from harassing the player AB. Sure he is a member of ICON but he hasn't said or done anything out of place as far as I am aware.

Kudruk or what ever his name is keeps going on about morality. Well why don't H? exercise some morality and leave AB alone unless he deliberately provokes them.


Posted By: Gemley
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2011 at 12:21
If I have read this thread right these players are either alts or new players being attacked or whatever by Harmless. I dont understand the big deal about this because the way I see it anyone who joins StJude's alliance cant really be surpised that they are being seiged from another alliance StJude has pissed off or declared war on.There is no if,ands or buts about it if your in an alliance at war no matter how small you are you are going to get attacked by someone at somepoint(Harmless is at war with ICON right, or is this one player from Harmless that decided to attack ICON?). I think that Harmless hasnt done anything wrong yet and this player has got to have known when he/she joined ICON that StJude is known for starting wars and getting people angry(no offense StJude) and so the player should have known just by joinning StJude's alliance that there was a high chance she/he would be attacked by another alliance.

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�I do not love the bright sword for it's sharpness, nor the arrow for it's swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend� - J.R.R. Tolkien


Posted By: Southern Dwarf
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2011 at 13:01
That does not stop it being ridiculous because Icon is in no way a threat to H?.


Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2011 at 14:37
Tbh I don't really know about this situation - and I haven't been invovled at all and I don't really live in the area.

But if I had to paint the picture from the perspective of those involved: Put yourself in their shoes. A notorious forum troll and massively anti-your alliance player tries to move himself into your backyard with his alt and his alliance. Not only that but doing it into an unseigeable location - allowing him free reign to do whatever diplo/magic attacks he likes in the future free from major repercussions (or greatly limited).

No matter how ICON tries to spin it - this is not just a poor weak alliance trying for the quiet island life - being picked on by a bigger alliance. ICON had the entire map to chose from when settling - but they picked unseigable locations on H? doorstep. Coincidence? I think not.

TBH I fully symathise with these people. I wouldn't like it if LH or AtH or whatever other notorious  loudmouths we've had set up on my doorstep.


Posted By: Starry
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2011 at 15:20
lol, nice try guys but this is a complete failure.  H? does not siege small players unless they are involved in hostile actions against H?.  There are plenty of small players in H? heavy areas that not only live in peace but receive help from H? members.    StJude, Borg and others deliberately started down this path with hostile actions (moving your cities into an H? heavily populated area very near an H? member).

You dared us to respond with action and we did.    As for small players being sieged, you left out one very important fact; the small player accounts are alts of ICON players that were used to occupy those island locations.    You exploited the new player protection/Tenaril's move by suspending one alt, creating another account (which, of course, put it under new player protection) and moving that new player's city to the exact location of a Borg city that was under attack.   Btw, thank you to SC and other Devs that changed the rule so that new players under protection cannot use this option to move; you can thank ICON's abuse of this feature for this action. 

You reap what you sow, you started this, we will finish it.

DEVS:  I really wish there were a way to prevent players from suspending their accounts and creating a new one immediately as some are already abusing this feature.   All it takes is a few abusing features in this game to ruin it for legitimate players.


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CEO, Harmless?
Founder of Toothless?

"Truth never dies."
-HonoredMule



Posted By: Kurfist
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2011 at 15:26
Originally posted by Createure Createure wrote:



TBH I fully symathise with these people. I wouldn't like it if LH or AtH or whatever other notorious  loudmouths we've had set up on my doorstep.


hehe im mentioned.

I'm in the wastes by the way, almost no one there.


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Patience is a virtue, resource giving is a sin


Posted By: Brids17
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2011 at 16:48
Originally posted by Starry Starry wrote:

DEVS:  I really wish there were a way to prevent players from suspending their accounts and creating a new one immediately as some are already abusing this feature.   All it takes is a few abusing features in this game to ruin it for legitimate players.


Does to 1-4 weeks that it takes to build up the account to have any amount of troops/diplos not count for something?


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Posted By: Gemley
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2011 at 16:51
Originally posted by Starry Starry wrote:

lol, nice try guys but this is a complete failure.  H? does not siege small players unless they are involved in hostile actions against H?.  There are plenty of small players in H? heavy areas that not only live in peace but receive help from H? members.    StJude, Borg and others deliberately started down this path with hostile actions (moving your cities into an H? heavily populated area very near an H? member).

You dared us to respond with action and we did.    As for small players being sieged, you left out one very important fact; the small player accounts are alts of ICON players that were used to occupy those island locations.    You exploited the new player protection/Tenaril's move by suspending one alt, creating another account (which, of course, put it under new player protection) and moving that new player's city to the exact location of a Borg city that was under attack.   Btw, thank you to SC and other Devs that changed the rule so that new players under protection cannot use this option to move; you can thank ICON's abuse of this feature for this action. 

You reap what you sow, you started this, we will finish it.
+1


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�I do not love the bright sword for it's sharpness, nor the arrow for it's swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend� - J.R.R. Tolkien


Posted By: Starry
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2011 at 18:07
Originally posted by Brids17 Brids17 wrote:

Originally posted by Starry Starry wrote:

DEVS:  I really wish there were a way to prevent players from suspending their accounts and creating a new one immediately as some are already abusing this feature.   All it takes is a few abusing features in this game to ruin it for legitimate players.


Does to 1-4 weeks that it takes to build up the account to have any amount of troops/diplos not count for something?


Obviously you miss the point.   There are a few players that are taking advantage of the suspension account feature as a means of playing this game.    They create alts, start problems with that account and when it comes under attack they suspend it and create a new account which, of course, is under new player protection.  I am very sure that was not the intention of the Devs when they made that feature available to the players.  In the above case, they were exploiting the ability to move that protected city into the middle of our ops.   The Devs have since changed the ability to move when a new account is under new player protection.     :D

Edit:   The Devs have been incredible about listening to our requests for game enhancements and options; I'm sorry but it really ticks me off when the Devs go through the trouble of implementing our requests and a few players abuse the changes.   


-------------
CEO, Harmless?
Founder of Toothless?

"Truth never dies."
-HonoredMule



Posted By: Silverlake
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2011 at 18:34
LOL, what a charade...


Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2011 at 18:39
Originally posted by Starry Starry wrote:


Edit:   The Devs have been incredible about listening to our requests for game enhancements and options; I'm sorry but it really ticks me off when the Devs go through the trouble of implementing our requests and a few players abuse the changes.   

tbh, when we saw this being used it was with a wry smile rather than any kind of annoyance on our part.

The thing about building a sandbox game is that people will always find ways to use legitimate ingame rulesets to their advantage in ways that were unanticipated by us, and we know in our heart-of-hearts that we will never adequately contemplate every possible usage or rule-combos that laterally-thinking players will come up with.  

We very much appreciate the demonstration of lateral thinking that goes on by all players - it simply serves to spur us to improve the gameplay rulesets, as we did in this instance.

Regards,

SC


Posted By: Brids17
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2011 at 18:40
People were able to do that without the ability to suspend their own account anyway. All they had to do was send a petition to ask for the account to be closed then start another one. They didn't even have to wait until said account was closed as long as they didn't sign back into it. I don't really see how this changes anything.


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Posted By: Starry
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2011 at 18:51
Well then Brids, one of two things will happen in this game:   the Devs will have to spend time policing for multi accounts (which is already being abused and growing daily) instead of working on game enhancements and new features , or the game will end up being abusing by multis.    I've seen too many PvP games ruined by not enforcing the multi player rules.    

It will be interesting to see how the multi issue is handled in the future.   :)

SC -  Glad to hear our ops exposed an exploit and thank you again for addressing it.  :)    We're all approaching this game with a creative mind.  :D 


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CEO, Harmless?
Founder of Toothless?

"Truth never dies."
-HonoredMule



Posted By: Mr Damage
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2011 at 21:04
Lets be honest, there's plenty of other exploits going on in this game and H has mastered quite a few of them ( I am not criticizing here ), sure this latest tactic is annoying I'm sure but seriously, complaining about it expecting the devs to change or remove the tactic is a bit rich don't you think? I agree wholeheartedly that the system is being used in an underhanded manner (can't keep you out of it things mana. Lol) and some sort of restriction needs to be contemplated but complete change is unnecessary. The negative food tactic was mooted for change and howled down in the forums by those who were using it, this tactic's ultimate aim is to increase your armies and armies are the main mechanism to maintaining power so no wonder it wasn't a popular idea to those who cherish it the most. Gm Stormy has correctly stated that lateral thinking is a precious gift of those in-game and there is no urgent need to handcuff this. H, you are being challenged it seems, now do as you usually do, improvise and overcome, if you can. Good luck to both parties.


Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 09:08
I'm not howling for any rule change - I'm all for creative game-play.

I just posted so you guys understand why some members of H? feel like they need to take steps to insulate themselves from ICON's tactics - and this is not just your average nooby bashing.


Posted By: Truth
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 10:34
Originally posted by Createure Createure wrote:

I'm not howling for any rule change - I'm all for creative game-play.

I just posted so you guys understand why some members of H? feel like they need to take steps to insulate themselves from ICON's tactics - and this is not just your average nooby bashing.


Hmmm... Since H? is well known for being creative in their game play one would think they would not target an enemy for being creative with their game play. Can someone say hypocrite? Now type it lol.


Posted By: Zork2012
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 12:22
I am so happy that you have justyfied attacking small players by just saying they are alts, no more discussion or thought needed other than that.
These two players arent alts, but hey lets not let the facts get in the way


Posted By: SunStorm
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 12:36
Basically, this is what I am hearing...

ICON: "Those big mean nasty H? players are attacking our little island for no reason."
H?: "Those ICON members are upset because we have frustrated their plans."

I can tell you this much.  If you had accomplished this feat (conquering an entire island and making yourselves unsiegeable), as soon as ships are released, your towns would have been in for a world of hurting...  or did you not realize that H? has sea ports as well?  (just my thoughts)


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"Side? I am on nobody's side because nobody is on my side" ~LoTR



Posted By: Zork2012
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 12:43
SunStorm, I didnt complain about them seiging Jude Borg or myself.
We have/had some smaller players who have done nothing wrong and didnt move to an island close to H? and yet they are being sieged.
These 2 players never attacked H? and when I look at the diplomacy page for ICON I see only 2 declarations of war, niether is with H? and we only declared 1 because we were being sieged by Champs already


Posted By: Kurfist
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 12:49
Nothing will save you, in the end we can take a step back, take a break for a few weeks and think about going back in again to try it another time round, to me thats part of the fun.  like a detective game.
just kill the accounts now, you know what the end results will be anyway.


-------------
Patience is a virtue, resource giving is a sin


Posted By: Starry
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 13:12
Originally posted by Zork2012 Zork2012 wrote:

SunStorm, I didnt complain about them seiging Jude Borg or myself.
We have/had some smaller players who have done nothing wrong and didnt move to an island close to H? and yet they are being sieged.
These 2 players never attacked H? and when I look at the diplomacy page for ICON I see only 2 declarations of war, niether is with H? and we only declared 1 because we were being sieged by Champs already


Again, incorrect, we have attacked only accounts that have been involved in the relocation fiasco you created.      Btw, do we want to talk about the "new accounts" that were created during these ops?    I expect you don't.  Tongue

Enough with the innocent act, you knew the risk when you started these moves and the consequences for those actions, now you pay the price.     To be honest, if we really wanted ICON gone, it would have happened already, however, that is NOT how we play the game.   

For the record, these ops do not merit a declaration of war as they are classified as minor ops.


-------------
CEO, Harmless?
Founder of Toothless?

"Truth never dies."
-HonoredMule



Posted By: Kurfist
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 13:26
just because they are smaller then you and will take less time to kill does not make it a war, regardless of what you consider the appropriate definition is.

war/wôr/

Verb:
Engage in a war.

Noun:
A state of armed conflict between different nations or states or different groups within a nation or state.



-------------
Patience is a virtue, resource giving is a sin


Posted By: Anjire
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 13:50
For the record, the WAR declaration was indeed made by StJude when he was in the original ICON before ceding control of that alliance to Qwazar and reforming ICON to continue.   No effort was made by him or any other member that switched from ICON(now LIONS) to ICON to make amends or sue for peace.

Pretending that because there is no public display in your current alliance diplomatic screen that the initial war declaration made by you would somehow be forgotten by H? is most amusing.  


Posted By: SunStorm
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 14:22
Zork, I understand how you are feeling about accounts which have done no wrong.  This player (who was there on the Island before you joined him) may very well be a legit player.  If that is the case, I would counsel him to leave your alliance.

-------------
"Side? I am on nobody's side because nobody is on my side" ~LoTR



Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 14:51
Originally posted by Truth Truth wrote:

Originally posted by Createure Createure wrote:

I'm not howling for any rule change - I'm all for creative game-play.

I just posted so you guys understand why some members of H? feel like they need to take steps to insulate themselves from ICON's tactics - and this is not just your average nooby bashing.


Hmmm... Since H? is well known for being creative in their game play one would think they would not target an enemy for being creative with their game play. Can someone say hypocrite? Now type it lol.

Lmao please don't twist my words. Please rethink your logic.

Certain members are H? are not targetting StJude and co. for playing creatively.

They are targetting them because they are using this creativity to the detriment of Harmless? - by setting themselves up in a strong position next to H? (who StJude makes no secret of despising).

Like I already said - I'm completely in favour of creative game-play - whoever uses it, whether it be my allies, my enemies or complete strangers. But that doesn't mean I don't have a right to defend myself when my enemies direct their creative tactics in my direction.


Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 16:10
Originally posted by Createure Createure wrote:

They are targetting them because they are using this creativity to the detriment of Harmless? - by setting themselves up in a strong position next to H? (who StJude makes no secret of despising).

"setting themselves up in a strong position next to H" ? Confused

Do you guys really fear him so much? Confused

Whenever I heard this line of reason before, I thought your alliance mates were giving it for the sake of an argument. I thought so because he is only a tiny fraction of Harmless'size. But your words are very convincing. Confused 











Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 16:24
Ok - can I try and summarise your point?

You are saying: H? should not bother about StJude/ICON even though they are setting up in our backyard and have hostile feelings towards us - because H? is many hundreds of times more powerful than ICON and they really shouldn't be worth our time?

If the above paragraph is approximately what you are saying then I must admit - I do agree with you in broad terms - this is the reason I have not been involved myself up 'til now.

But let me ask you one question.

If a horse fly lands on you, do you slap it off quickly, or do you leave it to suck your blood because you are many hundreds of times more power than it?

If you'll permit me to give my answer to my question: Although I do not FEAR horse flies - I do kill them if they land on me.

You see my point I hope?


Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 16:44
icon shall just give up. even on a island, the siege raids will crush their towns anyway

-------------

my words on this forum are from me alone.
DLords official words only come from HighKing Belargyle


Posted By: Aurordan
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 17:24
Originally posted by Kurfist Kurfist wrote:

just because they are smaller then you and will take less time to kill does not make it a war, regardless of what you consider the appropriate definition is.

war/wôr/

Verb:
Engage in a war.

Noun:
A state of armed conflict between different nations or states or different groups within a nation or state.


What kind of dictionary are you using that has the work itself in the definition?   


Posted By: Celebcalen
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 18:00
Originally posted by Createure Createure wrote:


I just posted so you guys understand why some members of H? feel like they need to take steps to insulate themselves from ICON's tactics - and this is not just your average nooby bashing.


Originally posted by Createure Createure wrote:


Lmao please don't twist my words. Please rethink your logic.

Certain members are H? are ...targetting StJude and co... because they are using this creativity to the detriment of Harmless? - by setting themselves up in a strong position next to H? (who StJude makes no secret of despising).

Like I already said - I'm completely in favour of creative game-play - whoever uses it, whether it be my allies, my enemies or complete strangers. But that doesn't mean I don't have a right to defend myself when my enemies direct their creative tactics in my direction.



O Creat really don't insult the intelligence of the community - there's a good chap. I am disappointed in you. Perhaps you have been spending to much time with Lawnie

To argue that Harmless? - the most powerful...the most influential alliance in Illyria has "to insulate it self from ICON's creative tactics is proposterous.

The community can see that all ICON are doing are settling on islands to reduce the possibilty of by sieged by H? players. Almost all their players have towns and villages that can have little or no effect on the sprawling monstrosities of the H? pantheon (that's a thought I wonder effect H? is having on Illyira's carbon footprint. Hmm I'll bet the methane output must be quite high as well )

The tactics of players like AB are all defensive. He is just trying to defend himself and survive. This is obvious Creat . Can Harmless? please desginate someone who, at least shows respect to the community, to defend it's actions please?


Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 18:04
Originally posted by Createure Createure wrote:


You are saying: H? should not bother about StJude/ICON even though they are setting up in our backyard and have hostile feelings towards us - because H? is many hundreds of times more powerful than ICON and they really shouldn't be worth our time?


Was I saying that? I was only asking if you guys are afraid to let him go.

Originally posted by Createure Createure wrote:


If a horse fly lands on you, do you slap it off quickly, or do you leave it to suck your blood because you are many hundreds of times more power than it?

If you'll permit me to give my answer to my question: Although I do not FEAR horse flies - I do kill them if they land on me.

You see my point I hope?

A horsefly landing on me is very much different from a Horsefly "taking up a strong position near me". And slapping off a horsefly is different from chasing it half way round the globe. 

i asked that question because i found your wordings a little strange. Smile

Happy StJude bashing! 









Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 18:14
Originally posted by Celebcalen Celebcalen wrote:




O Creat really don't insult the intelligence of the community - there's a good chap. I am disappointed in you. Perhaps you have been spending to much time with Lawnie

To argue that Harmless? - the most powerful...the most influential alliance in Illyria has "to insulate it self from ICON's creative tactics is proposterous.2

The community can see that all ICON are doing are settling on islands to reduce the possibilty of by sieged by H? players. Almost all their players have towns and villages that can have little or no effect on the sprawling monstrosities of the H? pantheon (that's a thought I wonder effect H? is having on Illyira's carbon footprint. Hmm I'll bet the methane output must be quite high as well )

The tactics of players like AB are all defensive. He is just trying to defend himself and survive. This is obvious Creat . Can Harmless? please desginate someone 1 who, at least shows respect to the community, to defend it's actions please?


1) here i am, not an H? member or anything like that.. but a bunny ear lawyer at your disposal. Wink
 
2) now now... this aint insulation my dear. its annihilation.
that is obviously H?'s personal space, and personal space invaders usually are dealt whit the roughest glows on.
to add more to the shame, the parasites have nested themselves on a unsiegable location, in the best tradition of Haxors, to exploit the inability of camping on sea tiles.
now the removal of such elements, would happen in rigorous silence by any alliances that have such players in their area of influence.
to give even more headache, said players hide behind their size and their meatshields to justify their presence on H? turf, even if no one invited them there.


-------------

my words on this forum are from me alone.
DLords official words only come from HighKing Belargyle


Posted By: StJude
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 18:32
Metagaming, Territorial claims and "interesting mechanics" aside.

If Killerpoodle or Honoredmule comes to this thread we at ICON will be willing to negotiate. Not interested in discussions with other parties from H? at this time.

In short, here is what is on the table, if you agree to leave off our smaller players, we will relocate via Exodus within a reasonable time and will cease any and all actions against H? for 1 year. That's the guts of it, we can figure out the details in this thread, and this thread only. No closed doors and no behind the scenes shenanigans. If H? is not interested, then I will be interested as to their reasons why not.


Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 18:34
I read Celebs comments as "Poor little ICON are just trying to live in peace on an island - safe from the big nasty H?." - an argument that has been used before in this thread.

 - To that argument I have already responded in a previous post: ICON are not just setting up on any old islands - they have moved across the map to set up on islands right on H? doorstep - why? Perhaps to StJude+co. have convenient spot to annoy us with minor (but nevertheless irritating) actions like diplo hits and magic while being free from the repercussions of seige.

@Ander: I was not quoting you - like I said that was simply my interpretation of what you said - basically just how I understood you. You were asking if we are 'afraid to let StJude go'? - I have already answered you via a little allegory - just because we don't fear StJude doesn't mean we have to to ignore him when he goes out of his way to annoy us.

Edit: @Jude - I'll make sure the directorship is aware of your propsal.


Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 18:57
Originally posted by Createure Createure wrote:

 
You made a comment about us chasing ICON around the world? That is exactly what we haven't done - we are slapping that horse fly because it has landed right next to us. If it flies off we aren't going to be bothered chasing it.


Sure Createure. Jude had 5 cities and 4 of them were razed. This gave me an impression that H would chase ICON no matter where they settled. Maybe I was wrong.

Seems like they have given their word to fly off anyways. I really hope things gets settled.





Posted By: StJude
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 18:58
Originally posted by Createure Createure wrote:

 
Edit: @Jude - I'll make sure the directorship is aware of your propsal.

Thank you.


Posted By: Kurfist
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 19:01
Originally posted by Aurordan Aurordan wrote:

Originally posted by Kurfist Kurfist wrote:

just because they are smaller then you and will take less time to kill does not make it a war, regardless of what you consider the appropriate definition is.

war/wôr/

Verb:
Engage in a war.

Noun:
A state of armed conflict between different nations or states or different groups within a nation or state.


What kind of dictionary are you using that has the work itself in the definition?   


the very best kind.


-------------
Patience is a virtue, resource giving is a sin


Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 19:01
No worries.

And I see you point Ander - but tell me - if you were being chased around the world by H? or any other alliance and did not want their attention would you choose to settle down right next to them?


Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 19:40
Originally posted by Kilotov of DokGthung Kilotov of DokGthung wrote:

icon shall just give up. even on a island, the siege raids will crush their towns anyway

I like to call them "siege-strafing runs."


Posted By: Celebcalen
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 19:59
Originally posted by Createure Createure wrote:

No worries.

And I see you point Ander - but tell me - if you were being chased around the world by H? or any other alliance and did not want their attention would you choose to settle down right next to them?


I have to repeat myself. The difference in size between H? and ICON in size of cities and armies is so great that it makes a complete nonsense of you arguement. In any event the only benefit from settling on an island is to reduce the possibility of being sieged.

I have noticed that you are fond of using the words *logic" and " fallacy" in your posts and threads. Try using more of the former and less of the latter. By continuing your current line of argument you really are insulting peoples intelligence. I am beginning to think you are repeating this nonsense deliberately.


Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 20:26
It is pointless reasoning with you Celeb when you just keep returning to the same point without thinking through anything I say.

I guess now you force me to repeat myself: Why does it matter what size ICON is? Before they decided to move to the islands they had already made their hostile opinions of H? abundantly clear (in much the same way that you do) - tell me: If these guys did not want to get hurt by H? then why did they chose to settle right next to us? The location they picked was purely with the intention of antagonising us - and now it bugs you that we responded swiftly and decisively?

And yeh I don't think I've ever used the word 'fallacy' on here before now - but I guess we all already know that making stuff up doesn't bother you.

edit: @Harry: Tbh just because people are disagreeing doesn't mean it is necessarily bitter-sea material - indeed now the bitter sea is gone does not mean we are supposed to not ever dispute. It just means we have to hold these discussions in a more reasoned and less 'troll-like' way.


Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 21:48
Originally posted by Celebcalen Celebcalen wrote:

Originally posted by Createure Createure wrote:

No worries.

And I see you point Ander - but tell me - if you were being chased around the world by H? or any other alliance and did not want their attention would you choose to settle down right next to them?


I have to repeat myself. The difference in size between H? and ICON in size of cities and armies is so great that it makes a complete nonsense of you arguement. In any event the only benefit from settling on an island is to reduce the possibility of being sieged.

I have noticed that you are fond of using the words *logic" and " fallacy" in your posts and threads. Try using more of the former and less of the latter. By continuing your current line of argument you really are insulting peoples intelligence. I am beginning to think you are repeating this nonsense deliberately.

size of the infection is not something to consider when eradicating plague.
the logic is, they are unwanted on that island.
your point is that they are to small, but they bragged quite a bit in the past, i dont know if they are worth the courthouse like defence you are giving to them.
anyway, there are no jurors to impress here celeb.
the one way to end this good for icon would be to start sitting on the negotiation table and bargain a cease fire untill they moved to better location.( and i hope it happens).
since all the "devious strategy" and "no diplomacy " hard-line has failed, negotiating an exodus is all what they have left. 


-------------

my words on this forum are from me alone.
DLords official words only come from HighKing Belargyle


Posted By: Anjire
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 21:53
Originally posted by Kilotov of DokGthung Kilotov of DokGthung wrote:

Originally posted by Celebcalen Celebcalen wrote:

Originally posted by Createure Createure wrote:

No worries.

And I see you point Ander - but tell me - if you were being chased around the world by H? or any other alliance and did not want their attention would you choose to settle down right next to them?


I have to repeat myself. The difference in size between H? and ICON in size of cities and armies is so great that it makes a complete nonsense of you arguement. In any event the only benefit from settling on an island is to reduce the possibility of being sieged.

I have noticed that you are fond of using the words *logic" and " fallacy" in your posts and threads. Try using more of the former and less of the latter. By continuing your current line of argument you really are insulting peoples intelligence. I am beginning to think you are repeating this nonsense deliberately.

size of the infection is not something to consider when eradicating plague.
the logic is, they are unwanted on that island.
your point is that they are to small, but they bragged quite a bit in the past, i dont know if they are worth the courthouse like defence you are giving to them.
anyway, there are no jurors to impress here celeb.
the one way to end this good for icon would be to start sitting on the negotiation table and bargain a cease fire untill they moved to better location.( and i hope it happens).
since all the "devious strategy" and "no diplomacy " hard-line has failed, negotiating an exodus is all what they have left. 

Correction Kilotov:  There has been "diplomacy" with such as messages to H? directors such as "You are a *rick", "sucka..."  and so forth.  


Posted By: StJude
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 21:56
Originally posted by Kilotov of DokGthung Kilotov of DokGthung wrote:


since all the "devious strategy" and "no diplomacy " hard-line has failed, negotiating an exodus is all what they have left. 

That is not correct, there are multiple options that can be pursued that all take time and involve the use of prestige.

However, right now, I am not confident I want to stick around in Illy and continue being the champion of the people, so H? can have Killerpoodle and/or Honoredmule negotiate peace in this thread, or not, and show the community that there is more here than meets the eye. (*whispers* Transformers more than meets the eye)


Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 22:03
anjire, that is obviously not a diplomatic message.
mockery has no place in this tread and shall not be discussed.
the fact i compared icon to a plague may have been cause of their modus operandi.
that includes harassing, mockery, thievery, verbal assault, attack against third parties as retaliation, impersonating the champion of the people, impersonating of the messiah, foul play, disguise as white hats, blatant lies  and such.
now, let this tread not degenerate whit non-constructive post like that one, since we are all well aware of the colours of those.
 


-------------

my words on this forum are from me alone.
DLords official words only come from HighKing Belargyle


Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 22:09
I will be surprised if H? engages in any public negotiations.  That would be out of character for H?.


Posted By: StJude
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 22:10
Originally posted by The_Dude The_Dude wrote:

I will be surprised if H? engages in any public negotiations.  That would be out of character for H?.

Wow, that says more about them than I ever could.


Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 22:10
No competent negotiator works in full public view, SJ.


Posted By: StJude
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 22:15
Not unless they have something to hide they don't.

Thankfully this is a game and not real life though.


Posted By: Celebcalen
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 22:16
Originally posted by The_Dude The_Dude wrote:

No competent negotiator works in full public view, SJ.

H? competent? Where is your evidence?


Posted By: Kurfist
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 22:20
seriously, insulting the people that could call of attacks isn't wise.

-------------
Patience is a virtue, resource giving is a sin


Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 22:43
Personally I think talking about anything serious on the public forum simply gives trolls like Celeb a more high profile platform upon which to conduct their hate campaigns. Which in turn drags down the level of discussion and drives away people who might actually have a balanced/interesting and well-thought out take on things away.


Posted By: StJude
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 22:46
Originally posted by Createure Createure wrote:

Personally I think talking about anything serious on the public forum simply gives trolls like Celeb a more high profile platform upon which to conduct their hate campaigns. Which in turn drags down the level of discussion and drives away people who might actually have a balanced/interesting and well-thought out take on things away.

Frankly, I don't understand this. If you don't like what he has to say, you are under no obligation to reply to him?

That's the deal on the table, I am willing to exodus my city out of "your" territory and so are my comrades, if H? is willing to leave off our smaller players and discuss the details openly in this thread.

This is up to you guys, no skin off my nose if H? directors refuse the terms.


Posted By: (EOM) Harry
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 22:48
Originally posted by Createure Createure wrote:

 

edit: @Harry: Tbh just because people are disagreeing doesn't mean it is necessarily bitter-sea material - indeed now the bitter sea is gone does not mean we are supposed to not ever dispute. It just means we have to hold these discussions in a more reasoned and less 'troll-like' way.


Thats what i'm getting at, it's more than cool to have a disagreement but when players use the same antagonizing tactics in the P&D just like bitter sea, then every topic becomes like bitter sea.


-------------
Fool's watch the land when the problem is in the heart.


Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 23:22
Maybe you're right Harry. I can't tell yet. Have to see how things develop I guess.

Jude, why bother asking for terms if you don't care about the outcome?


Posted By: StJude
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 23:51
Originally posted by Createure Createure wrote:

Maybe you're right Harry. I can't tell yet. Have to see how things develop I guess.

Jude, why bother asking for terms if you don't care about the outcome?

Where did I say I didn't care about the outcome?

What I did say, is if H? rejects the terms, then THAT is no skin off my nose. I can't make H? do anything.


Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 23:57
Originally posted by Celebcalen Celebcalen wrote:

Originally posted by The_Dude The_Dude wrote:

No competent negotiator works in full public view, SJ.

H? competent? Where is your evidence?


Lmao.. You never fail to impress, CC!


Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 23:57
StJude, you can make H? more amenable to coming to an agreement with you by respecting their negotiating style.  I recommend you contact Harmless? through their embassy or by in-game mail to any director.


Posted By: StJude
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2011 at 00:17
Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

StJude, you can make H? more amenable to coming to an agreement with you by respecting their negotiating style.  I recommend you contact Harmless? through their embassy or by in-game mail to any director.

Are you a representative for H? ?


Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2011 at 00:40
Originally posted by StJude StJude wrote:

Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

StJude, you can make H? more amenable to coming to an agreement with you by respecting their negotiating style.  I recommend you contact Harmless? through their embassy or by in-game mail to any director.

Are you a representative for H? ?


do as she said or agonize in a hardly fun way.


-------------

my words on this forum are from me alone.
DLords official words only come from HighKing Belargyle


Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2011 at 01:57
Am I a representative for H? No.  I am someone who has read the part of their alliance profile that talks about diplomacy.  If you are interested in a diplomatic resolution, that might be a good place to start.


Posted By: StJude
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2011 at 02:06
Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

Am I a representative for H? No.  I am someone who has read the part of their alliance profile that talks about diplomacy.  If you are interested in a diplomatic resolution, that might be a good place to start.

Then I thank you for your time and bid you good day.

Page me when Honoredmule and/or Killerpoodle decide if it is worth the effort to show up.


Posted By: SunStorm
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2011 at 02:19
I LoL so hard every time StJ dismisses sound reason from level headed players.  

Bottom line, they are your cities and your alliance mates.  Take the initiative to communicate or stand by and watch them razed to the ground...   but if they are razed because of your own foolishness, don't bother crying to anyone about it.  (especially not Rill)



-------------
"Side? I am on nobody's side because nobody is on my side" ~LoTR



Posted By: StJude
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2011 at 02:27
Originally posted by SunStorm SunStorm wrote:

Take the initiative to communicate....

Are you paying attention to the rest of the thread or are you too busy looking for ways to further brown your nose on the HonoredMule of H?


Posted By: StJude
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2011 at 02:31
Originally posted by The_Dude The_Dude wrote:

troll feeding

this thread should be locked.  Ouch

No, this is quite simple.

H? "objects" to our "pooping" cities in "their backyard"

Rather than seek a diplomatic solution, they launch armies and sieges.

I don't trust H? or any of their directors as I see them as being duplicitous and hypocritical.

Therefore, I am willing to engage in negotiation, but ONLY in full view of the public. This is not an unreasonable request if H? has nothing to hide.

The ball is in H?'s court, they can reject the terms by ignoring them or they can put their money where their mouth is and have a civil discussion where BOTH parties can compromise, and not just one.

Otherwise, quit trying to justify their aggression and just call a spade a spade.



Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2011 at 02:46
The way you are talking StJude it almost sounds like you think you have a strong position to negotiate from.

It was your own decision and nobody else's to put the accounts of your alliance mates on the line by having them placed as close as you could manage to the cities of a powerful military alliance who you have openly criticised for a long time. As such it is your responsibility to find a diplomatic solution if that is what you really desire.


Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2011 at 02:51
Only a fool would attempt to negotiate an end to a war in the forums.

StJude is either a fool (which I actually doubt) or is not pursuing this discussion in good faith.


Posted By: StJude
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2011 at 02:55
Originally posted by Createure Createure wrote:

The way you are talking StJude it almost sounds like you think you have a strong position to negotiate from.

Sure, or you could say I have less to lose.

Like I said, it's simple. If all this is REALLY about H? objecting to us being in close proximity, then I am offering a solution.

But, if H? are not being entirely honest with us (ICON) and the community (or they simple want to flex some more) then H? can reject the proposal by having the two requested players ignore the thread.

H? has their cheerleaders already. At this point, I have no interest in what they say, I am only interested in discussing this further with either Honoredmule or Killerpoodle as they are two H? players that have been the most consistent in my time here.

There is no point in my continuing in this thread. The offer stands, take it or leave it.

I'll be happy to engage in civil discussion if the requested parties see fit to respond here.


Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2011 at 03:12
well the fact is, or you bow to THEIR requests or be gone.
you are not really in the "condition to dictate conditions" any more,jude..


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my words on this forum are from me alone.
DLords official words only come from HighKing Belargyle


Posted By: Anjire
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2011 at 03:14
Originally posted by StJude StJude wrote:

Originally posted by The_Dude The_Dude wrote:

troll feeding

this thread should be locked.  Ouch

No, this is quite simple.

H? "objects" to our "pooping" cities in "their backyard"

Rather than seek a diplomatic solution, they launch armies and sieges.

I don't trust H? or any of their directors as I see them as being duplicitous and hypocritical.

Therefore, I am willing to engage in negotiation, but ONLY in full view of the public. This is not an unreasonable request if H? has nothing to hide.

The ball is in H?'s court, they can reject the terms by ignoring them or they can put their money where their mouth is and have a civil discussion where BOTH parties can compromise, and not just one.

Otherwise, quit trying to justify their aggression and just call a spade a spade.



It is quite simple: 

StJude, et al declare war on H?
StJude, et al starts setting up cities on an island near a large base of H? cities
H? informs StJude, et al that this was not going to be allowed
H? acts removing the cities on the island
StJude, et al enact their diplomatic skills sending messages of the nature I stated in my last post.
Borg from one side of his mouth attempts to negotiate for his city on the island with one Director saying he will exodus it off the island, while out of the other side of his mouth derides a different Directer as he attempts to set up on a separate island.
StJude and Borg set up on a two square island (see other thread about the various Exodus quarks uncovered throughout the various sieges).  StJude, et al abandon an alt account and create a new account to teleport to the opened square which has H? troops now occupying the square. (once again many oddities arose with Exodus and the peace of camp rules to the frustration of both H? and ICON).
StJude, et al start setting up on a different island (7 squares), H? moves to once again thwart such a set up. 







Posted By: GM Luna
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2011 at 03:18
Repeatedly shouting "troll" is disruptive and unnecessary so please don't do it.

Calling me out publicly to moderate something is not the way to go about voicing an actual concern. Please do so via PM as requested in the code of conduct thread.

I'll remove the few unnecessary posts in this thread but aside from that, carry on with your discussion and try to remain civil.

Thanks.

Luna


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GM Luna | Illyriad Community Manager | community@illyriad.co.uk



Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2011 at 03:34
I find it interesting Jude - that you imagine H? feels like it has something to lose by not taking your public forum bait.

Rather than interpreting the inevitable abscence of KP+HM from this discussion as dishonesty from H? I have no doubt that everyone whos opinion H? might care about will draw the obvious conclusion - and that is that the leaders of H? have normal busy lives like everyone else and have practically zero time or concern for the whims of a guy who has shown them nothing but abject hostility in the public forum since the date of his account creation.

Why should HM or anyone else in charge have to bow to your personal whims?

If you want to have a discussion you'll do it through the same channels that are open to everyone. If you don't want a discussion you will continue your hollow posturing on here and you will continue to be ignored.


Posted By: HonoredMule
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2011 at 04:54
Well it seems this thread has exploded while I've been off living my life (It's Halloween, you know).  And apparently I'm under some form of "obligation" to negotiate here in the court of public opinion.  I can't imagine what exactly would compel me to do so.  I'm a little old to be incensed by clucking chicken noises.

Well, I'm here anyway, but only to say this:
I may or may not have something to hide, but I definitely have nothing to show--I'm not a stage performer.  Others like Rill and Createure have already pointed out how StJude can initiate real negotiations, which as far I know has not yet been attempted.

I visited this thread on a lark when I noticed the increase in activity, but don't count on me watching it very closely.  No offense intended to anyone here, but I simply do have better things to do.


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"Apparently, quoting me is a 'thing' now."
- HonoredMule


Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2011 at 05:11
HM plays the "i have a life" card.
all previous posts lose 80% of credibility and any petty and childish replays are negated for the next turn.  all your cards got reshuffled.



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my words on this forum are from me alone.
DLords official words only come from HighKing Belargyle


Posted By: SunStorm
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2011 at 05:40
Originally posted by Createure Createure wrote:

Why should HM or anyone else in charge have to bow to your personal whims?
This pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Originally posted by Kilotov of DokGthung Kilotov of DokGthung wrote:

HM plays the "i have a life" card.
all previous posts lose 80% of credibility and any petty and childish replays are negated for the next turn.  all your cards got reshuffled. 
(^_^)  +50

Jude, if you would be rational for a moment, you would see that demanding they meet your demands when you are in absolutely no position to make any such demands is folly...  

Oh, and thank you for posting that brown-nosing remark.  It really helps your defense.  LoL


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"Side? I am on nobody's side because nobody is on my side" ~LoTR



Posted By: Silent/Steadfast
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2011 at 05:46
I guess I get to be the childish one...

From a strictly neutral viewpoint what I see is ICON attempting to build a base for use against H? who is endeavoring to prevent this. Both approaches are intelligent strategies, and both parties are using perfectly reasonable responses to the other's tactics. All this is fine. Then what I see is some propaganda on ICON's part, some angry responses from players not in H?, and some yawns from H? Leadership.

Now we must ask ourselves this: why must this thread's legnthly commentary exist? Both sides of the conflict can exist in a state of war WITHOUT neutral players going "blah blah blah".

Yes, I know, "spirit of debate" and all that, but what if we debated about something that actually affected us, like the suggestions forum? Let the involved people work it out.

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"Semantics are no protection from a 50 Megaton Thermonuclear Stormcrow."-Yggdrassil (June 21, 2011 6:48 PM)
"SCROLL ya donut!" Urgorr The Old (September 1, 2011 4:08 PM)



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